WVW-is this the endgame mode

[aspirine.6852]

Isnt endgame supposed to be rewarding? Or is 3 talons and some cotton from chests considered uber loot these days?

[googel.3278]

fashion is endgame content, look at how much they are pushing out! all dem juicy pixel profits are for more skin releases. its swinging that black lion keys, not the sword now!

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Bandwagon.4512 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:PvE has been fostered significantly more.

It’s has proven to pull more players in therefore better revenue generating

Those same players do not enjoy the actual risk of ‘dying’ in a game, so an actual challenge to their play is anathema.

So.... PvE will continue to get the largest amount of attention.

Agreed on PVE being the number one draw factor for gw2, but what keeps them playing after they do the latest Living Story or PVE map is what i am mentioning as end game modes. No one keeps playing LS again and again...they just play it for the achieves/lore/loot etc, not for the joy of the game. Once, those few weeks are over, you would find most new maps dead, like not a soul in sight dead! Wait for metas to start to see people again(now a days many meta maps also dont have enough to win)So you see, if you want to retain the new arrivals, you need to keep them hooked on end game content, like wvw, they can play everyday and it wont be so repetitive.

Strange I see pretty much every meta map populated most times of day, some are obviously more popular than others. Aside from that many of the core maps are still well populated because of thinmgs like WB's, events, map completion , personal story and.. LS.When the popularity dies down players still come back because they need certain rewards, certain achievements, certain materials. ANET have done a fairly decent job of keeping maps linked to future requirements, not all but many.Don't get me wrong, I have always like WvW, but if you want to talk about repetitive gameplay then you need not look any further than WvW nowadays, in fact after the first 6 or 7 months WvW essentially became a karma train with the added bonus of WvW rank chests dropping every 15minutes... ooh and then they added another karma train in EotM.Unfortunately for many players and guilds alike, WvW has grown tiresome running around flipping the same Stonemist, same camps, towers etc.Siege is frowned upon as a way to defend or tactically engage because it must be PvDoor or nothing, that's why I never tag up anymore, haven't done in a few years if I am honest because the game mode has grown tiresome, for me at least.Heck they even quit on WvW tournaments because it further highlights the decline in interest in the mode with many servers relying on server hops to gain any kind of presence in them... add to that look at the server linking fiasco we currently have - it tells its own story, the interest just isn't as big as you might think in comparision to LS and PvE in general, where there are easy revenue streams to keep filling the company coffers.So yes I agree ANET have let WvW stagnate to the point of critical decent, but then again it is not and never has been a game mode that brings the bread in to really push future development and I do not personally think Alliances (soon TM) will do anything for it either, but hey the Warclaw might be the trial to see just how much WvW players are prepared to dip into their pockets.For me WvW is now just something I can mix into my gametime as and when, I still enjoy it in small bursts but it's not the be all and end all of GW2, maybe it was never meant to be.

To be fairId rather pay 5euros contribution.to keep the server goingThen pay for a mount i didn't want in the first placeOr a costume since i dont care if my war looks like a princes

And dont get me wrong on thisBut what i meant is: its how you try to put IT on the marketAnd there's plenty of WvW players who Just dont care about stuff on the gemstore, not because it has a pricetag. But because its not important enough to care

Oh I agree believe me, I was one of those opposed to the introduction of the Warclaw.. but we cant have our cake and eat it.. there has to be a business case for spending dev time on certain aspects of the game over more lucrative, time proven elements that are the bread and butter of the games existence, especially when expacs were taken off the table some time back and downsizing has happened of late.

Enterprises gotta adapt to the market, not the market to the big cooperationsIts kinda the foundation of the world we live in

So would putting dev time/money into a gamemode that bears little return both short or long term historically be your idea of adapting to the market cos that is not how I would ever contemplate running my business.Adapting to the market means moving with a market that offers that opportunity.. thus far both WvW and PvP have not presented such an opportunity and in 7yrs I think ANET would of latched onto something if it had been there to latch onto. So what ANET have to do is create ways into to open up those game modes, but that takes time, money and expertise.. if any of those three aspects are is lacking then well we will soon be on here venting frustration. So as I said maybe the Warclaw is a tippy toe to test the water on how well WvW will be willing to open the purse strings, kinda crawling before they walk before they run if you like., whilst still pushing the bread an butter side of the game to ensure revenue continuity.

The world we live in can often be seen as wasteful and that is something I am sure ANET/NCSoft will be keen to avoid in todays global marketplace.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

@Obtena.7952 saidGW2 IS an example of the MMO gaming industry adapting to the market. That's the primary reason it's successful. GW2 has a number of innovative concepts and how they are also brought together into a game to attract a large and underserved segment of the market is the proof if that.

The notion that GW2 change all the time to continually appease all the different kinds of players in it doesn't make sense. The fact that WvW and PVP are not all that successful in this game are good indicators that the gaming values for the primary section of the market this game attracts clashes with many of the concepts that establish these competitive game modes. We can already see these are largely unreconcilable ...

Warclaw is a great example of this because it fixes problems that most hardcore PVP players don't have a problem with ... yet Anet did it anyways. Again, this is just another example of Anet creating an environment that is more friendly to the majority of people that play it. There are so many hints of what most people in this game want that they are not possible to ignore. The lack of WvW development relative to PVE is just one of many of them.

Failure of a portion of the market are never good indicators. The fact is Anet has tried to target multiple markets and the introduction of raids is a glaring example of that, I think it's shortsighted to believe that the population you alienate is easily replaced by the population you serve. The game was incredibly successful capturing a part of the market that wasn't being served, that said it has easily lost many portions of the market and done so by not being able to redirect their resources to areas that kept players interested and engaged.You have always seemed like a staunch defender of all that is Anet which in my opinion taints your view. Anet needs to step up, grow up, learn from both their failures and their community needs, so they can continue to prosper, anything other than that is a straight line to the unemployment line.This group can no longer think they are the new kid on the block because after 7 years, there are contenders for their player base so pretending their isn't an issue when everyone around them is screaming there is, is both arrogant and fatal! Ignoring the community is certain death and while not all parts will ever be fully satisfied, giving them the feeling that they are is far more important than hanging on to some misplaced sentiments or misguided values.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

@Obtena.7952 saidGW2 IS an example of the MMO gaming industry adapting to the market. That's the primary reason it's successful. GW2 has a number of innovative concepts and how they are also brought together into a game to attract a large and underserved segment of the market is the proof if that.

The notion that GW2 change all the time to continually appease all the different kinds of players in it doesn't make sense. The fact that WvW and PVP are not all that successful in this game are good indicators that the gaming values for the primary section of the market this game attracts clashes with many of the concepts that establish these competitive game modes. We can already see these are largely unreconcilable ...

Warclaw is a great example of this because it fixes problems that most hardcore PVP players don't have a problem with ... yet Anet did it anyways. Again, this is just another example of Anet creating an environment that is more friendly to the majority of people that play it. There are so many hints of what most people in this game want that they are not possible to ignore. The lack of WvW development relative to PVE is just one of many of them.

Failure of a portion of the market are never good indicators. The fact is Anet has tried to target multiple markets and the introduction of raids is a glaring example of that, I think it's shortsighted to believe that the population you alienate is easily replaced by the population you serve. The game was incredibly successful capturing a part of the market that wasn't being served, that said it has easily lost many portions of the market and done so by not being able to redirect their resources to areas that kept players interested and engaged.You have always seemed like a staunch defender of all that is Anet which in my opinion taints your view. Anet needs to step up, grow up, learn from both their failures and their community needs, so they can continue to prosper, anything other than that is a straight line to the unemployment line.This group can no longer think they are the new kid on the block because after 7 years, there are contenders for their player base so pretending their isn't an issue when everyone around them is screaming there is, is both arrogant and fatal! Ignoring the community is certain death and while not all parts will ever be fully satisfied, giving them the feeling that they are is far more important than hanging on to some misplaced sentiments or misguided values.

Whilst I have not always necessarily agreed with @Obtena.7952 on many aspects of discussion about the game here, this is one of those occasions I absolutely do.ANET as you rightly point out have, over the course of the games 7yrs of existence, attempted to try and cater for all concerned whether that be casual players, hardcore raiders, pvp'ers, RP'er and good old story and lore likers. That does not mean they have been successful in igniting anyone of those particular modes and markets. Whilst doing this they have been able though to identify what parts of their game best serve the business and offer the best opportunity to keep it both alive, well and constantly developing... therefore they have redirected their resources to best fit the continuing needs of such areas of the game and WvW/PvP just don't offer that much in terms of a return - yet.I agree at launch all modes were very well put out, but that was expected. Now 7 yrs in ANET have been able to analyse their product and how we the customers prefer to play it. Yes all areas of the game need a push, some definitely more than others, but that has to be balanced against revenue and time and the internal resource/expertise in those areas all while maintaining a stable revenue, which no matter if we like it or not comes via its PvE/LS centric modes... that to me is a very grown up, responsible attitude to take considering it has a whole lot of employees that depend on them all doing the right thing, which is making money no matter if we like that or not.As for thinking they are the new kid on the block, they lost that nametag the minute they launched so that is a silly comment to make. The game space has been saturated for years, long before GW2 launched so I doubt very much that ANET aren't aware of what will likely come to poach players interests, that is the nature of the beast they position themselves within. Then again, lets consider how many of those of late have really done that much and how many of them have fared, are faring, will still be worth mentioning in 7yrs time.ANET have many issues to work on for sure, but show me an MMO that doesn't, all we can do as players is trust they can work through them so that maybe, in time those areas of the game that are under serious pressure can be reinvigorated. For now though it's more of a case of where needs must and for me that means getting the next LS content release out because too long without new things makes me anxious :)

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

Appreciate your view, truly do but nothing will quell the masses like a something for everyone expansion. I'm not saying this mode or that mode is more important but there is no point denying they tried for it all so they need to bring it all. If the player base doesn't vocally say what it wants, what they expect, than they have nothing to complain about if nothing happens. That said there have been many, hundreds, if not thousands of posts from their supporters asking for things they dearly want and as I've said ignoring that is a hazard. I never indulged in WvW because i thought it to be a waste of my time but having done so these last months I can assure everyone there are major issues in this game mode, some that have gone untreated for far too long. I hate to say this but at year 7 it seems to me we either have a group that is tired of the game and the entire system that supports it (stagnation) or management has lost the ability to motivate people under them.I, like many are growing more anxious everyday, unlike most I won't just be satisfied with here you go...more of the same with no directional change or motivation. I can back this up with this, in the last few weeks I've purchased and downloaded both ESO and WoW classic because I'm not holding my breath. That should send the fear of God into the staff at Anet because i can assure everyone I'm not alone in my thinking.GW2 is the best MMO since Asheron's Call, but ownership, or management has lost it's way and that my friend is a sad, sad future. I'm not a doomsayer I'm a realist.