Permanent shroud — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Permanent shroud

I wonder how unbalanced it would be if reaper´s(necro´s) shroud no longer decreases over time, only damage done to it will reduce its life-force.
Of course, 15k health with 50% damage-reduction which doesn´t decay sounds strong on paper, but would it really that bad ?

Considering Anet´s refusal to give necro access to blocks, invulnerability, evades and the likes and nowaday with the increased powercreep, shroud only serves as a tool to soak up damage in pvp when focused. In pve it wouldn´t hurt either I guess, though this would be the chance to introduce Anet´s new beloved mechanic, penality-traits.
-50% health but no shroud-decay.

"I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

Comments

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because there are shroud skills and traits that allow you to refill some life force while in shroud, it would make the shroud extremly strong in 1v1 situations. Furthermore, ANet want the shroud to be something used dynamically and not "passively", which is why a lot of "when entering shroud" traits exist.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2019

    Reaper is very heavy on cleave skills. Greatsword and shouts are very strong vs multiple targets. That is my guess as to why Reaper Shroud has faster degeneration than Death Shroud: Reduced sustain from shroud is the cost for having so much AoE on tap.

  • Khailyn.6248Khailyn.6248 Member ✭✭✭

    It would be interesting if Shroud rather than decaying on its own, would lose life force based on damage taken as well as a percentage per ability used while in shroud kinda like how revenants have energy costs. Could maybe work with core and scourge but as mentioned above reaper having as much cleave as it does would likely break even on cost of at least its auto attack if not still gain additional LF.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    Imagine if instead of Shroud being a separate health bar, it would act as a "filler" for your bar, so if you took damage, You would take, idk 33% ( basically perma protection) and the rest would be taken by life force. So active-ness in combat lets you keep it up but wasting it all means you take more damage. ( normal damage)

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭

    Perma shroud sounds interesting, but they shouldn't add it at this time even if it could be balanced imo.
    It promotes a shroud camp playstyle, and the problem with that is that necro has fix shrouds; necros would be using 5 buttons most of the time, and that would get very old very fast. If shroud had additional skills, or more customization to it than it has now, it might be quite enjoyable.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To balance a non degenerating shroud the life force generation would have to be lowered by a significant amount which would create other weaknesses for necros.

    Kiting would not work anymore but bursting would be deadly as we would need a lot of time to build up life force.

    At the end of the day the class diversity would not improve that much as we would still be extremely vulnerable outside of shroud resulting in the need to run vitality and toughness gear like we already have to.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    reapers can already deal very very very heavy amounts of damage while in shroud, having that as a potential permanent thing would not be balanced at all. even now getting bursted from full to almost nothing with 2 procs of spinal shivers (both active and passive) is more than enough for a reaper to take down an opponent, on top of the quickness uptime (if traited) and reaper's ability to keep chill and cripple on a target coupled with its gap closure while in shroud (skill 2) to stick to its targets. the shroud decaying faster is almost miniscule compared to the heavy damage it deals in rather quick succession. I would not be in favor of having shroud permanent.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭

    Perma-shroud, definitely not. It's the kind of OP form that either needs to have a real time limit or get smacked with a big nerf hammer to make it far less OP and having damage decreasing your time in shroud isn't enough.

    If Anet allowed access to your utility skills while in core/reaper shroud a longer duration shroud by using life-force generating utility skills might be interesting.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    @Ghos.1326 said:
    reapers can already deal very very very heavy amounts of damage while in shroud, having that as a potential permanent thing would not be balanced at all. even now getting bursted from full to almost nothing with 2 procs of spinal shivers (both active and passive) is more than enough for a reaper to take down an opponent, on top of the quickness uptime (if traited) and reaper's ability to keep chill and cripple on a target coupled with its gap closure while in shroud (skill 2) to stick to its targets. the shroud decaying faster is almost miniscule compared to the heavy damage it deals in rather quick succession. I would not be in favor of having shroud permanent.

    If only that held true for pve, their damage is among the lowest there. And for PvP, necro mobility and blocking is terrible or nonexistent.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:
    reapers can already deal very very very heavy amounts of damage while in shroud, having that as a potential permanent thing would not be balanced at all. even now getting bursted from full to almost nothing with 2 procs of spinal shivers (both active and passive) is more than enough for a reaper to take down an opponent, on top of the quickness uptime (if traited) and reaper's ability to keep chill and cripple on a target coupled with its gap closure while in shroud (skill 2) to stick to its targets. the shroud decaying faster is almost miniscule compared to the heavy damage it deals in rather quick succession. I would not be in favor of having shroud permanent.

    If only that held true for pve, their damage is among the lowest there. And for PvP, necro mobility and blocking is terrible or nonexistent.

    To add: easy to kite and easy to burst out of shroud.

    It just hit me: rework unholy sanctuary: make it offensive:
    When you take dmg and drop out of shroud from that dmg, deliver an attack that corrupts 3 boons and deals heavy dmg.

    Na... Would be too strong....

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    @Arzurag.7506 said:
    I wonder how unbalanced it would be if reaper´s(necro´s) shroud no longer decreases over time, only damage done to it will reduce its life-force.
    Of course, 15k health with 50% damage-reduction which doesn´t decay sounds strong on paper, but would it really that bad ?

    Considering Anet´s refusal to give necro access to blocks, invulnerability, evades and the likes and nowaday with the increased powercreep, shroud only serves as a tool to soak up damage in pvp when focused. In pve it wouldn´t hurt either I guess, though this would be the chance to introduce Anet´s new beloved mechanic, penality-traits.
    -50% health but no shroud-decay.

    It's probably unbalanced enough that it doesn't work that way. If you avoid getting hit with the right traits/skills, you have a very good shroud uptime in Reaper, even with the higher decay coefficient.

    I guess the answer you won't like is this: if Reaper isn't good for you in PVP, try something else. The goal isn't likely to fix that since a survey of all the classes demonstrates that all classes and their elite specs being good in all game modes isn't what Anet are after anyways.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Arzurag.7506 said:
    I wonder how unbalanced it would be if reaper´s(necro´s) shroud no longer decreases over time, only damage done to it will reduce its life-force.
    Of course, 15k health with 50% damage-reduction which doesn´t decay sounds strong on paper, but would it really that bad ?

    Considering Anet´s refusal to give necro access to blocks, invulnerability, evades and the likes and nowaday with the increased powercreep, shroud only serves as a tool to soak up damage in pvp when focused. In pve it wouldn´t hurt either I guess, though this would be the chance to introduce Anet´s new beloved mechanic, penality-traits.
    -50% health but no shroud-decay.

    It's probably unbalanced enough that it doesn't work that way. If you avoid getting hit with the right traits/skills, you have a very good shroud uptime in Reaper, even with the higher decay coefficient.

    I guess the answer you won't like is this: if Reaper isn't good for you in PVP, try something else. The goal isn't likely to fix that since a survey of all the classes demonstrates that all classes and their elite specs being good in all game modes isn't what Anet are after anyways.

    Sadly even after playing every other class for 100h+, reaper is still my favorite class.
    Though, in comparison, reaper is so gutted and held back, it´s astonishing, be it pvp or pve.
    It´s absolutely not fun to play reaper on pvp, the day playing it in wvw were utterly painful.

    Anyway, removing shroud´s decay was merely a suugestion, a trail of thought that I had for a while, although I do agree that it would be too powerful, reaper´s shroud is what made me play gw2 in the first place and now that it´s uptime is so limited, gw2 kinda lost its magic for me.

    I just want it back for more than a few seconds.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Arzurag.7506 said:
    I wonder how unbalanced it would be if reaper´s(necro´s) shroud no longer decreases over time, only damage done to it will reduce its life-force.
    Of course, 15k health with 50% damage-reduction which doesn´t decay sounds strong on paper, but would it really that bad ?

    Considering Anet´s refusal to give necro access to blocks, invulnerability, evades and the likes and nowaday with the increased powercreep, shroud only serves as a tool to soak up damage in pvp when focused. In pve it wouldn´t hurt either I guess, though this would be the chance to introduce Anet´s new beloved mechanic, penality-traits.
    -50% health but no shroud-decay.

    It's probably unbalanced enough that it doesn't work that way. If you avoid getting hit with the right traits/skills, you have a very good shroud uptime in Reaper, even with the higher decay coefficient.

    I guess the answer you won't like is this: if Reaper isn't good for you in PVP, try something else. The goal isn't likely to fix that since a survey of all the classes demonstrates that all classes and their elite specs being good in all game modes isn't what Anet are after anyways.

    Plus according to the powers that be Reapers in a 'good' spot. The horse has bolted on this one as they've addressed our main issue which was over sustain in shroud...stick a fork in it lads.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2019

    Removing degeneration on shroud is like dropping the timer on a block, removing degeneration on adrenaline, or reducing mobility cost to 0 initiative.

    Increasing degen rate and offering a bit more LF gen on active skills is likely the more attractive option to Arenanet.

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