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Flandre.2870

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@Ryan.9387 said:How is spellbreaker unkillable?

It loses to mesmer, weaver, deadeye for sure and can lose easily to holo, necro, and probably both staff and condi dd.

Its may not be meta yet but look at oldschool aurashare ele. Its kit is very strong in this meta. Equal to FB imo.

aurashare is actually surprisingly damn good

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@Buran.3796 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

See this is the problem with some people who main a class, "slow as a slug" "rev is dead" "rev hits softer than ever" ? What the hell? Sure it got nerfs but this is crazy over-exgateration biast at it's best.

How can I be wrong? The class resembles nothing what was at the HoT release. Revenant was supposed to rely on energy to use its skills (as happens with initiative for thieves); now, instead, has cooldowns on top energy cost for almost every skill. The shield was botched long time ago and don't has any use in any game department for 2+ years in a row. Axe is also unpopular, and none of the ranged weapons of the class enjoys any use in PvP. Off hand sword block on move was sacrified to buff the damage, but once was neutered in burst and casting speed what remains useless for condi builds and very predictable for power ones. Frankly the off hand sword was better BEFORE the changes, because albeit Rev was low tier after the PoF arrival, at least was faithful to the roots of the class. What do you do with a class unable to do support, to tank/hold points or to work as condition dps? You keep the damage and the mobility. Power Shiro is now like a pregnant walrus (but the walrus is a better bruiser). And don't talk me about "the problem with some people who main a class"; I mained Warrior and Guardian long before the HoT arrival, and those clasess always had a few functional builds with different degrees of viability. Rev never had an alternative build, and power Herald never was so straightforward, uninspiring, plain and rigid to play as in the current iteration. I can play support Firebrand, dps DH, core guardian bruiser and even meme (but fun) burn Guardian; Rev has 0 options, and now is slow.

Clueless gold player

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@bluri.2653 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

See this is the problem with some people who main a class, "slow as a slug" "rev is dead" "rev hits softer than ever" ? What the hell? Sure it got nerfs but this is crazy over-exgateration biast at it's best.

How can I be wrong? The class resembles nothing what was at the HoT release. Revenant was supposed to rely on energy to use its skills (as happens with initiative for thieves); now, instead, has cooldowns on top energy cost for almost every skill. The shield was botched long time ago and don't has any use in any game department for 2+ years in a row. Axe is also unpopular, and none of the ranged weapons of the class enjoys any use in PvP. Off hand sword block on move was sacrified to buff the damage, but once was neutered in burst and casting speed what remains useless for condi builds and very predictable for power ones. Frankly the off hand sword was better BEFORE the changes, because albeit Rev was low tier after the PoF arrival, at least was faithful to the roots of the class. What do you do with a class unable to do support, to tank/hold points or to work as condition dps? You keep the damage and the mobility. Power Shiro is now like a pregnant walrus (but the walrus is a better bruiser). And don't talk me about "the problem with some people who main a class"; I mained Warrior and Guardian long before the HoT arrival, and those clasess always had a few functional builds with different degrees of viability. Rev never had an alternative build, and power Herald never was so straightforward, uninspiring, plain and rigid to play as in the current iteration. I can play support Firebrand, dps DH, core guardian bruiser and even meme (but fun) burn Guardian; Rev has 0 options, and now is slow.

Clueless gold player

You cannot say thing about viability of Rev there is only 1 meta build..upsie.. :) not so long condi is taking the lead. Sure in great hands it is still strong but you are heavily dependent on your teamates,you can't do ---- alone, where except of necro other classes can do something on their own (ok i know i know this is for all classes).

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Hmm. A very weird list.

Agree:

Firebrand, currently comparable to support tempests, are staples. If you want versatility, you need to invest in some team fight potential in your comp. This means having a support class. It's close to an S tier class, but given that there is another option and that the meta is more snowball oriented, you could be right to call it A tier.

Weaver would be S tier in an older meta. In this meta, it is a side-noder only, and doesn't bring enough pressure that can't be easily avoided. It relies heavily on a pulsing AoE stance. In larger fights it just gets ignored until a few kills later it's cooldowns and health are low from splash, or it's the only thing left to train down. It is possible to build a comp in which it could be useful, though, so I'd say B tier is correct.

Dead Eye can be very strong. However, it can also be easily countered with projectile hate, and pressured away by a holo. B tier is probably right for it.

Disagree:

Holosmith is definitely A if not S. It's debatable, given their weakness to condi, but I'd say S tier. It has great damage and cleave, great damage, AoE CC, and it is the only meta build in this meta with a true safe stomp.

Core necro and scourge... Necro above scourge? Please. With no support, maybe, because it has death shroud. The problem with necro in the meta had, before PoF, always been that support classes could not heal a necro while he is in shroud. This hasn't changed. Things are squishier now, though, which makes necros more of a threat if they can kite well and land their fears, but looking at it practically: in a team fight, it's easy to switch between targets when the necro enters shroud, where he is less of a threat; as a side-noder, the necro is far too slow - once he is in a fight, he will eventually need rotations into him, making him more of a duelist, and a much more limited one than a warrior or holo. Compared to scourge, which in a team fight is never in shroud, can be supported while using barrier, can pseudo heal with barriers, and, importantly, cleanse conditions - including for the firebrand/tempest i.e. creating recursive support - the core necro falls short. It would have to run unholy maytr and vampirism signet to even try to compete with the support offered by scourge, sacrificing corrupts or dhuumbfire. Due to the meta, and that having some condi pressure in a team fight is important, Scourge goes in the S tier, easily. Scourge's superiority also puts core necro down to B, if not C tier.

Mesmer has been falling out since thief and spellbreaker counter it as a side-noder. That was around when CI became a thing, but even that wasn't enough. In larger fights, it's cleave is terrible. It is not S tier. More like B.

Warrior is good at the moment because of its mobility. It's a good side-noder, it can outrun most things, and it works fairly well in a team fight with a firebrand if need be. Versatility is important. It's not a staple or a huge disadvantage not to have one, though, so it can't be S. It's A tier.

Power thief... S/D is still atop D/P despite the latter countering the former, because S/D has more boon removal and team fight presence. The meta is very much team-fight oriented. You still rotate to out number, i.e. +1ing, but it's not like previous metas, where pressuring someone to leave a point worked well, and it was a constant game of rotations. Now, with more damage and less sustain, it's about getting kills and rotating to maintain a snowball TO get caps, rather than simply rotating to maintain caps. Thief brings excellent versatility options to a comp, but it's not a staple or a mandatory class, so it can't be S tier. It's A, at most.

Revanant. Yes it's vulnerable to conditions. In a team fight composition, it is better to go for a holo AND warrior, together, without a rev. In high damage compositions, it can be great, but it can also be easily caught without support. It has a place in a versatile comp with a support, a scourge and a sidenoder, but it's not as potent as a holo, warrior or thief. C tier is a bit harsh, though, especially considering how superior it is to the classes I'd place in C. I'd stick it in B tier.

Condi thief is broken at the moment, but it can be outplayed by a power thief. It has strong counters, and it relies on using endurance for bolstering damage which has never been a good thing to focus on in PvP because it costs survivability. Holos counter pressure it, thieves counter pressure it, and it's not too difficult for a warrior to screw one up in a larger fight, either. B tier.

Dragonhunter does not counter mesmer. It counters thief, but with kills being faster in this meta, it's not a huge problem for thieves. Thieves are also not mandatory picks. Dragonhunter doesn't have a place anywhere except the bottom of the tier list. C. That isn't to say that there aren't a few people who can play it well enough that it appears viable.

Core guardian is more viable than dragonhunter in my opinion, but it has the same problems. C tier.

Scrapper has the same problems as weaver, but less damage and mobility. It would be competing with warrior for a side-noder spot. Since being able to kill something, and fast if +1'd by a roamer, warrior is of course much better. C tier.

Soulbeast doesn't really have a role, does it? It's somewhere between warrior and thief, or warrior and rev, but it has less effective CC, less effective cleave, no boon removal, it's not great at chasing. It can peel, it can rotate, but it is easily counter pressured and rather selfish in that its playstyle is entirely solo. Other classes that actually specialise in aspects of the soulbeast's role are better to take because they synergise and are collectively more effective. C tier.

Not mentioned:

Reaper has potential, except that being squishier than a core necro (due to life force draining faster) and the main punch being from their melee kit, they can't kite as well as a core necro or scourge, and they are also immune to healing while in shroud. It is basically a suicide bomber build. They rush in, explode for damage, die, and often rally anything they managed to down. B tier.

Core elementalists have been seen lately. They seem capable side-noders, and re-introduce the older meta idea of having you a side-noder with support capabilities for smaller fights. It could be an interesting option to try out. If workable, it would bump the rev up as well, since they would work well together.

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@"Flandre.2870" said:M7B3adt.pngI'm back with an updated tier list.Short info: teamfight comps suck this patch, mesmer thief warrior are all unkillable and have way better class mechanics than rest of the specs.Condi thief, mirage and spb are absolutely broken and rotational comp is superior at the moment.Power thief is godlike because every team has 2-4 CI mirages and having matchup into the best class in the meta makes core thief S tier.Holo still ridic strong( the only class without good matchups that survives this meta)Good FB is still amazing value.DH back in the meta since it counters both thieves and mirages which spread like a plague this patch.Core necro>ScourgeWeaver although it does well into m irage lacks damage output and has hard time winning anything.If you want to get an idea of comps people run here is what people run during the FINALS of today's AT.KIR6Ncv.pngTeam of ultranumb that played standard fb/scourge/herald teamfight comp lost to a 4 mirage team that didn't even make fianls.

Nice image yet no Warriors. If there are so many mirages, war should not be on the top tier. And holo is not S. Maybe this is AT not ranked.

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I guess you are trolling but ok :) First of all Warrior at A, Dh and Scrapper B Tier? more like C at best....Holo is S Tier easily this class has everything so broken its def op at this point .. Switch B classes with C with the exception of deadye that should remain there and the rest is kinda ok.. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Ryan.9387 said:How is spellbreaker unkillable?

It loses to mesmer, weaver, deadeye for sure and can lose easily to holo, necro, and probably both staff and condi dd.

Its may not be meta yet but look at oldschool aurashare ele. Its kit is very strong in this meta. Equal to FB imo.

I've been running an aurashare staff tempest for a few seasons now and have consistently made it to top 100, even rank 24 at some point just playing that class.I would put it at B+, maybe even A vs some comps. Great when paired with high damage low sustain speccs like revs and necros, and ok in other comps. It is fun but it is free food for spellbreakers, holos and power thief builds (funnily, it can deal with condi thieves quite well and even pressure back), so when I see 2+ of those on enemy team, I just go DH to match their brain-dead speccs with my brain-dead one.

Paired with a scourage it is nearly unstoppable, reaper to a lesser extend, and it really does cover all the weaknesses for revs. I'm looking forward to 2v2 queue.

While I think ele's are still weak overall (except for that one condi weaver build), this build allows me to both have fun with my fav class, and feel useful in teamfights. As long as Im not on a sidenode, I'm good.

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