When will you address Holosmith? it has been 2 years since PoF

[Lighter.5631]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:and ofc they completely ignore my comment because it made too much senseand started proposing nerfs just for the sake of nerfing. lol

Not really, your comment ignored because it didn't make enough sense. Just because scourge is superior at team-fight, and weaver is arguably superior at side-node (I would contest that one actually), doesn't mean that holosmith is fine.

The issue with holosmith is that it is very strong in every category. Maybe not #1 in every category, but still strong. Strong team-fight presence, strong dueling ability, strong mobility, strong sustain.

Scourge and FB are top tier in team-fight, but are fairly weak as side-noders. Mirage and Soulbeast are strong side-noders, but are fairly weak as team-fighters. Holosmith is strong at both. Again, maybe not #1, but still very strong.

? so what makes holosmith not fine.how is it strong in every category when it is literally out classed in every category. (by your own words)you are literally the one who making no sensewhen a class is outclassed by multiple classes at every category yet still does decent, let me fine the word for you, it is OK,since when being OK at every category is OP lol,only if it can do all tasks at once, but still that ability alone would be OP, not the class.make some sense please.

[Ragnar.4257]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:and ofc they completely ignore my comment because it made too much senseand started proposing nerfs just for the sake of nerfing. lol

Not really, your comment ignored because it didn't make enough sense. Just because scourge is superior at team-fight, and weaver is arguably superior at side-node (I would contest that one actually), doesn't mean that holosmith is fine.

The issue with holosmith is that it is very strong in every category. Maybe not #1 in every category, but still strong. Strong team-fight presence, strong dueling ability, strong mobility, strong sustain.

Scourge and FB are top tier in team-fight, but are fairly weak as side-noders. Mirage and Soulbeast are strong side-noders, but are fairly weak as team-fighters. Holosmith is strong at both. Again, maybe not #1, but still very strong.

? so what makes holosmith not fine.how is it strong in every category when it is literally out classed in every category. (by your own words)you are literally the one who making no sensewhen a class is outclassed by multiple classes at every category yet still does decent, let me fine the word for you, it is

OK

,since when being

OK

at every category is OP lol,only if it can do all tasks at once, but still that ability alone would be OP, not the class.make some sense please.

Facepalm

Lets say categories are TeamFight/Dueling/Mobility/Sustain, rated 1-10.

Scourge is 10/3/2/5 - Total = 20Soulbeast is 1/8/8/10 - Total = 27Mirage is 3/10/9/5 - Total = 27Thief is 1/7/10/3 - Total = 21

Holosmith is 8/9/8/9 - Total = 34

Just because there are others with 10 in categories where Holo only is 9, Holo still comes out top overall. D'ya get it yet? Other classes have actual gaps, actual parts of the game where they aren't strong.

[Derm.4932]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:and ofc they completely ignore my comment because it made too much senseand started proposing nerfs just for the sake of nerfing. lol

Not really, your comment ignored because it didn't make enough sense. Just because scourge is superior at team-fight, and weaver is arguably superior at side-node (I would contest that one actually), doesn't mean that holosmith is fine.

The issue with holosmith is that it is very strong in every category. Maybe not #1 in every category, but still strong. Strong team-fight presence, strong dueling ability, strong mobility, strong sustain.

Scourge and FB are top tier in team-fight, but are fairly weak as side-noders. Mirage and Soulbeast are strong side-noders, but are fairly weak as team-fighters. Holosmith is strong at both. Again, maybe not #1, but still very strong.

? so what makes holosmith not fine.how is it strong in every category when it is literally out classed in every category. (by your own words)you are literally the one who making no sensewhen a class is outclassed by multiple classes at every category yet still does decent, let me fine the word for you, it is

OK

,since when being

OK

at every category is OP lol,only if it can do all tasks at once, but still that ability alone would be OP, not the class.make some sense please.

What he said was very clear and made sense my dude. You've never heard of the saying "Jack of all trades master of none"? You're pulling some serious mental gymnastics.

As to the topic at hand, I posted this somewhere else but I think it's worth a repost:

Heat therapy is a bigger offender than turret. Going from 90 -> 20 is a 4.5k heal and depending on how often you use your dodge you can go from 90 to 20 and back into forge in 10-15 seconds. It encourages people to spam forge and forge skills as fast as they can. The faster and more often you spam your skills, the quicker and more you heal. This isn't even a major trait - its a master minor that is easily as strong as a grandmaster.

And then when you take into account how many high impact skills are loaded onto forge it quickly becomes clear why people find this spec to be so spammy. You don't even to time attacks anymore. You can get hilariously far just by following a rotation off cooldown because you spam through all your opponents defensive cooldowns - which would be fine if your own offensive skills are on high cooldowns themselves, but this is not the case. Your forge skills are back long before most of their defensive skills are.

It's not hard to nerf Holo tho. Go through all forge skills and tone them down individually - reduce the auto by 10-15%, double the cooldown of Forge 2, remove the stab from one pulse of Forge 3, increase the CD to 20 seconds on Forge 5.

[Greyjoy.5167]

I believe Mirage needs more nerfs, same with SB Warrior. Holo requires way more skill to play properly.Then only nerf I see valid for Holo is extending some of the CDs. That's all.

[schloumou.3982]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:and ofc they completely ignore my comment because it made too much senseand started proposing nerfs just for the sake of nerfing. lol

Not really, your comment ignored because it didn't make enough sense. Just because scourge is superior at team-fight, and weaver is arguably superior at side-node (I would contest that one actually), doesn't mean that holosmith is fine.

The issue with holosmith is that it is very strong in every category. Maybe not #1 in every category, but still strong. Strong team-fight presence, strong dueling ability, strong mobility, strong sustain.

Scourge and FB are top tier in team-fight, but are fairly weak as side-noders. Mirage and Soulbeast are strong side-noders, but are fairly weak as team-fighters. Holosmith is strong at both. Again, maybe not #1, but still very strong.

? so what makes holosmith not fine.how is it strong in every category when it is literally out classed in every category. (by your own words)you are literally the one who making no sensewhen a class is outclassed by multiple classes at every category yet still does decent, let me fine the word for you, it is

OK

,since when being

OK

at every category is OP lol,only if it can do all tasks at once, but still that ability alone would be OP, not the class.make some sense please.

Facepalm

Lets say categories are TeamFight/Dueling/Mobility/Sustain, rated 1-10.

Scourge is 10/3/2/5 - Total = 20Soulbeast is 1/8/8/10 - Total = 27Mirage is 3/10/9/5 - Total = 27Thief is 1/7/10/3 - Total = 21

Holosmith is 8/9/8/9 - Total = 34

Just because there are others with 10 in categories where Holo only is 9, Holo still comes out top overall. D'ya get it yet? Other classes have actual gaps, actual parts of the game where they aren't strong.

Besides these numbers beeing pretty made up imho, this is how balance works. If you excel at nothing, your overall performance has to be higher. If it was the same you would be completely useless. It's the same with Cele stats for example.

[Fortus.6175]

@schloumou.3982 said:

Besides these numbers beeing pretty made up imho, this is how balance works. If you excel at nothing, your overall performance has to be higher. If it was the same you would be completely useless. It's the same with Cele stats for example.

Eles are supposed to be jack of all trades as well, master of none, yet it doesnt get the same treatment that holo get, if you specc damage you have low to no mobility, sustain or teamfight presence since you will be blowing up quickly. If you go bunker, then still all of the above, except that now you gave up damage for sustain.

Holos get their cakes and eat them too.

CC, damage, sustain, teamfight prowes, side nodding potential, but most importantly; extreme disengage potential.

Also, celestial stats give the same total number of stats than any other amulet, the extra stats was removed about 4 years ago which subsequently deleted eles from PvP.

[schloumou.3982]

@Fortus.6175 said:Also, celestial stats give the same total number of stats than any other amulet, the extra stats was removed about 4 years ago which subsequently deleted eles from PvP.

That was my point. I admit it is a bit of a under complex comparison though. Also I wasn't trying to say meta Holo is super well balanced but to point out that this calculation looks cool but doesn't work at all. Actually if you look into my post history you will find out that I have allways been in favor of introducing more trade offs to e-specs to get more build diversity. I have proposed it in the engi section and despite maining engi for 6 years, i'm ok with nerfs to Holo, as long as it doesn't further hurt core or scrapper builds and leads to even more discrepancy between PoF and core.

Eles are supposed to be jack of all trades as well, master of none, yet it doesnt get the same treatment that holo get

How is that relevant though? They excel at something so they get played.