Condition Damage +vitality +Healing power with unlimited CC...New Meta? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Condition Damage +vitality +Healing power with unlimited CC...New Meta?

I know there have been alot of people that have mastered the whole Condition damage maxed with every other stat going into Sustain and then fixing their bar with unlimited CC and kudo's to any and all who can do it well. but ill never forget our builds in GW1 getting nerfed because "they could do it all". I remember anet when they were against anything that was farming related that didnt involve a full team and in PvP especially im constantly running into these solo builds that can take 3 and 4 players between the condition application, cc, and self sustain.

im sure alot of people will have different opinions but literally for the last 3 weeks ive gotten nothing but players who dont know how to play the meta and going up against nothing but expert meta players. ive never once in 7 years even wrote on the discussion forum because ive always felt like they stuck to their guns overall but this time im just going to say it. they have broken the game with permanent CC and Permanent Condi Application that even specific bunker builds are unable to break out of or cleanse. no one stat by itself should carry that much damage and allow the play to still sustain against 2 and 3 players focusing them.

thats my opinion, thoughts?

Comments

  • to clarify, I dont think there is an easy fix and im not asking for one. but skill rather then class should determine any 1v1 outfit and in some cases(again depending on skill) 2v1. it should not be "oh thats a necro I can fight him because im guardian" or "hey thats a ranger, and im on my ele guess Ill just leave him be." the classes should have a fair chance at fighting each other not 1-3 classes every updated automatically dominating because "they got more love then the others"

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    I think the issue is mmorpg pvp is built on team play. You will always have class counter class, comp counter comp, and the idea is if you play it right your team runs interference for each other. Its when pvp activities become selfish about the single player thats when there is a problem. And you start hearing omg nerf x buff y. 1v1 is not the focus in team base play and they should not balance around that. I get what you are saying you want to be a fair fight between each class build, but the reality is it takes a team in mmorpgs to hit the objective and win. Yes sometimes there are outliers and those need to be looked at, but you cant base nerfs on the fact that x class beats you.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    New? That is hardly new. It's just a matter of which class can pull it off at the moment.

  • I 100% agree with you. its 5v5 for most of the structured PvP(not all) but most and yes everything has its place as a team. but when 1 player can come in drop a bomb run away and then 1 more person wipes an entire 5 man team just the 2 of them while the other 3 stand on points and twiddle their thumbs thats a bit broken. like I said im not saying there is or will be an easy fix, but something needs to be done to make condition damage on the same level as Power. until they do power builds(and most of the PvP player base) will be at a disadvantage. especially against players that have mastered that particular playstyle with near perfect internet connections when yours is mediocre at best and your build is requiring 3 stats to maximize its damage leaving you little to no room for sustain. again whereas the condi build can just play with the 2 secondary stats and do as much if not more then most power based builds.

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:
    New? That is hardly new. It's just a matter of which class can pull it off at the moment.

    yea I know but its been a little more fair then it is now in the past because CC and Condi Cleanse was never this big of an issue. its alot harder to negate 2 classes (ie Necro and Ele or Necro and Guardian) conditions then it is to block or negate straight damage from power based builds. like I said previously I know there isnt an easy fix but come on, warriors and guardians can guard all day long against power builds nullifying the damage in form or another but condi? you put any condi class meta against them and they will cave under the pressure. sounds like checks and balances until you realize that any of those condi classes that are meta can do that against 2 and 3 players at a time all the time every fight every match.

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭

    Getting killed inside of a two second knockdown does not feel good either... condition damage may be annoying, but at least it can be cleansed, no cleansing a burst of 16k that happens in 0.5 seconds or less.

    Why bring this problem up in the Mesmer forum though?

  • @Delofasht.4231 said:
    Getting killed inside of a two second knockdown does not feel good either... condition damage may be annoying, but at least it can be cleansed, no cleansing a burst of 16k that happens in 0.5 seconds or less.

    Why bring this problem up in the Mesmer forum though?

    I sincerely apologize, as I stated initially, ive never even commented on post before. I thought I was in general discussion thread. I guess there isnt a way to change it now is there?

    and no it doesnt, regardless of the circumstances being 1 shot does not feel good, but usually with a well timed stun break or some form of block or invulnerable you can block that damage and power based builds typically cant repeated that over and over again endlessly without no break. yes you have cleanse for condi but in my personal experience running FB Bunker no amount of resistance or cleanse can out do these meta condi builds. they literally can sustain the condi pressure with no worry of "oh shoot everything is on CD and I cant deal damage now" like power builds. reapers have CD's, short as they are they still cant continually repeat it in short burst fights, same for Deadeyes, Rangers, and warriors. several times ive fought against both warriors and reapers that I lost because Rampage or death spiral but beat the next time around because those skills were on CD. I have seen in particular (wont mention names) a scourge FB pair that won every single 3-5v2 fight regardless of duration inbetween with no rest because they literally could apply conditions that fast and that often. again with power you at least have a chance with well timed defensive utilities. with condi it just keeps coming no matter how often you cleanse it or become immune to it.

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blade of Christ.1298 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:
    Getting killed inside of a two second knockdown does not feel good either... condition damage may be annoying, but at least it can be cleansed, no cleansing a burst of 16k that happens in 0.5 seconds or less.

    Why bring this problem up in the Mesmer forum though?

    I sincerely apologize, as I stated initially, ive never even commented on post before. I thought I was in general discussion thread. I guess there isnt a way to change it now is there?

    and no it doesnt, regardless of the circumstances being 1 shot does not feel good, but usually with a well timed stun break or some form of block or invulnerable you can block that damage and power based builds typically cant repeated that over and over again endlessly without no break. yes you have cleanse for condi but in my personal experience running FB Bunker no amount of resistance or cleanse can out do these meta condi builds. they literally can sustain the condi pressure with no worry of "oh shoot everything is on CD and I cant deal damage now" like power builds. reapers have CD's, short as they are they still cant continually repeat it in short burst fights, same for Deadeyes, Rangers, and warriors. several times ive fought against both warriors and reapers that I lost because Rampage or death spiral but beat the next time around because those skills were on CD. I have seen in particular (wont mention names) a scourge FB pair that won every single 3-5v2 fight regardless of duration inbetween with no rest because they literally could apply conditions that fast and that often. again with power you at least have a chance with well timed defensive utilities. with condi it just keeps coming no matter how often you cleanse it or become immune to it.

    To my knowledge there is no way to move the thread, that aside, I do understand the frustration of being subject to constant high sustained damage.

    No offense intended, but it sounds like you may have encountered some strictly superior opponents. Such opponents exist for all of us, everyone has a weakness to a specific style of play. I struggle with a number of burst builds which also seem to auto attack for several thousand with every single auto attack, game is actually fairly balanced if we consider that both power and condi can be overpowered. Builds that are more general seem to actually suffer more in general... some exceptions do apply, but most lack enough damage to be a real threat or are specifically weak to a fairly common build.

  • @Delofasht.4231 said:

    @Blade of Christ.1298 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:
    Getting killed inside of a two second knockdown does not feel good either... condition damage may be annoying, but at least it can be cleansed, no cleansing a burst of 16k that happens in 0.5 seconds or less.

    Why bring this problem up in the Mesmer forum though?

    I sincerely apologize, as I stated initially, ive never even commented on post before. I thought I was in general discussion thread. I guess there isnt a way to change it now is there?

    and no it doesnt, regardless of the circumstances being 1 shot does not feel good, but usually with a well timed stun break or some form of block or invulnerable you can block that damage and power based builds typically cant repeated that over and over again endlessly without no break. yes you have cleanse for condi but in my personal experience running FB Bunker no amount of resistance or cleanse can out do these meta condi builds. they literally can sustain the condi pressure with no worry of "oh shoot everything is on CD and I cant deal damage now" like power builds. reapers have CD's, short as they are they still cant continually repeat it in short burst fights, same for Deadeyes, Rangers, and warriors. several times ive fought against both warriors and reapers that I lost because Rampage or death spiral but beat the next time around because those skills were on CD. I have seen in particular (wont mention names) a scourge FB pair that won every single 3-5v2 fight regardless of duration inbetween with no rest because they literally could apply conditions that fast and that often. again with power you at least have a chance with well timed defensive utilities. with condi it just keeps coming no matter how often you cleanse it or become immune to it.

    To my knowledge there is no way to move the thread, that aside, I do understand the frustration of being subject to constant high sustained damage.

    No offense intended, but it sounds like you may have encountered some strictly superior opponents. Such opponents exist for all of us, everyone has a weakness to a specific style of play. I struggle with a number of burst builds which also seem to auto attack for several thousand with every single auto attack, game is actually fairly balanced if we consider that both power and condi can be overpowered. Builds that are more general seem to actually suffer more in general... some exceptions do apply, but most lack enough damage to be a real threat or are specifically weak to a fairly common build.

    I guess Ill have to agree to disagree on this one because with power you actually have to continually hit for the damage to be there. with condi ive watched players jump in, apply it, and either go invulnerable or teleport away and the players they hit with those conditions die before they could do anything. and your right. their is always going to be that player/players that just wipe the floor with me because they are superior and I acknowledge that and accept that until I get better there isnt anything to be done about that. but what blows my mind is again watching high tier gold and low tier plat players still complaining about the lack of counters for players running full sustain gear with max condi damage overwhelming them and (with that being said) having never really run condi before ive taken it jumped in and even having little to no knowledge of what im doing wiped teams with it. having run power builds since day one ive never wiped a whole team before with even my necro, much less any of the others. thanks everyone for the input. guess its just something else to deal with and get over.

  • @Blade of Christ.1298 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:

    @Blade of Christ.1298 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:
    Getting killed inside of a two second knockdown does not feel good either... condition damage may be annoying, but at least it can be cleansed, no cleansing a burst of 16k that happens in 0.5 seconds or less.

    Why bring this problem up in the Mesmer forum though?

    I sincerely apologize, as I stated initially, ive never even commented on post before. I thought I was in general discussion thread. I guess there isnt a way to change it now is there?

    and no it doesnt, regardless of the circumstances being 1 shot does not feel good, but usually with a well timed stun break or some form of block or invulnerable you can block that damage and power based builds typically cant repeated that over and over again endlessly without no break. yes you have cleanse for condi but in my personal experience running FB Bunker no amount of resistance or cleanse can out do these meta condi builds. they literally can sustain the condi pressure with no worry of "oh shoot everything is on CD and I cant deal damage now" like power builds. reapers have CD's, short as they are they still cant continually repeat it in short burst fights, same for Deadeyes, Rangers, and warriors. several times ive fought against both warriors and reapers that I lost because Rampage or death spiral but beat the next time around because those skills were on CD. I have seen in particular (wont mention names) a scourge FB pair that won every single 3-5v2 fight regardless of duration inbetween with no rest because they literally could apply conditions that fast and that often. again with power you at least have a chance with well timed defensive utilities. with condi it just keeps coming no matter how often you cleanse it or become immune to it.

    To my knowledge there is no way to move the thread, that aside, I do understand the frustration of being subject to constant high sustained damage.

    No offense intended, but it sounds like you may have encountered some strictly superior opponents. Such opponents exist for all of us, everyone has a weakness to a specific style of play. I struggle with a number of burst builds which also seem to auto attack for several thousand with every single auto attack, game is actually fairly balanced if we consider that both power and condi can be overpowered. Builds that are more general seem to actually suffer more in general... some exceptions do apply, but most lack enough damage to be a real threat or are specifically weak to a fairly common build.

    I guess Ill have to agree to disagree on this one because with power you actually have to continually hit for the damage to be there. with condi ive watched players jump in, apply it, and either go invulnerable or teleport away and the players they hit with those conditions die before they could do anything. and your right. their is always going to be that player/players that just wipe the floor with me because they are superior and I acknowledge that and accept that until I get better there isnt anything to be done about that. but what blows my mind is again watching high tier gold and low tier plat players still complaining about the lack of counters for players running full sustain gear with max condi damage overwhelming them and (with that being said) having never really run condi before ive taken it jumped in and even having little to no knowledge of what im doing wiped teams with it. having run power builds since day one ive never wiped a whole team before with even my necro, much less any of the others. thanks everyone for the input. guess its just something else to deal with and get over.

    And players who stack condy removal get slaughtered through lack of mitigation of power spikes. Ignoring op builds (a different problem) it's confirmation bias for your preference - your weak to condy so you feel it, your not weak to power so all seems fair.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blade of Christ.1298 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:

    @Blade of Christ.1298 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:
    Getting killed inside of a two second knockdown does not feel good either... condition damage may be annoying, but at least it can be cleansed, no cleansing a burst of 16k that happens in 0.5 seconds or less.

    Why bring this problem up in the Mesmer forum though?

    I sincerely apologize, as I stated initially, ive never even commented on post before. I thought I was in general discussion thread. I guess there isnt a way to change it now is there?

    and no it doesnt, regardless of the circumstances being 1 shot does not feel good, but usually with a well timed stun break or some form of block or invulnerable you can block that damage and power based builds typically cant repeated that over and over again endlessly without no break. yes you have cleanse for condi but in my personal experience running FB Bunker no amount of resistance or cleanse can out do these meta condi builds. they literally can sustain the condi pressure with no worry of "oh shoot everything is on CD and I cant deal damage now" like power builds. reapers have CD's, short as they are they still cant continually repeat it in short burst fights, same for Deadeyes, Rangers, and warriors. several times ive fought against both warriors and reapers that I lost because Rampage or death spiral but beat the next time around because those skills were on CD. I have seen in particular (wont mention names) a scourge FB pair that won every single 3-5v2 fight regardless of duration inbetween with no rest because they literally could apply conditions that fast and that often. again with power you at least have a chance with well timed defensive utilities. with condi it just keeps coming no matter how often you cleanse it or become immune to it.

    To my knowledge there is no way to move the thread, that aside, I do understand the frustration of being subject to constant high sustained damage.

    No offense intended, but it sounds like you may have encountered some strictly superior opponents. Such opponents exist for all of us, everyone has a weakness to a specific style of play. I struggle with a number of burst builds which also seem to auto attack for several thousand with every single auto attack, game is actually fairly balanced if we consider that both power and condi can be overpowered. Builds that are more general seem to actually suffer more in general... some exceptions do apply, but most lack enough damage to be a real threat or are specifically weak to a fairly common build.

    I guess Ill have to agree to disagree on this one because with power you actually have to continually hit for the damage to be there. with condi ive watched players jump in, apply it, and either go invulnerable or teleport away and the players they hit with those conditions die before they could do anything. and your right. their is always going to be that player/players that just wipe the floor with me because they are superior and I acknowledge that and accept that until I get better there isnt anything to be done about that. but what blows my mind is again watching high tier gold and low tier plat players still complaining about the lack of counters for players running full sustain gear with max condi damage overwhelming them and (with that being said) having never really run condi before ive taken it jumped in and even having little to no knowledge of what im doing wiped teams with it. having run power builds since day one ive never wiped a whole team before with even my necro, much less any of the others. thanks everyone for the input. guess its just something else to deal with and get over.

    A surprisingly large amount of the community is not very good at adjusting their build to suit what is crushing them. It was only recently that I figured out just how much defensive, offensive, condi removal and stun removal I needed to run for facing most enemies. I still lose to better players now and again, or because I will fat finger some buttons and end up wasting important mobility or cleanses at the inappropriate time and die a few seconds later to not having that skill when I actually needed it. That said, however, it is often less about a specific build stomping me anymore. In short, you may need to adjust your build to include an extra condi cleanse or convert trait over an offensive one that helps get a kill faster and rely on better timing and sequencing of your setup into combo damage to make up for the loss of that offensive trait. My own build actually had to swap an entire traitline worth of damage traits, which felt terrible at first but is less bad than I thought it would be.

  • And players who stack condy removal get slaughtered through lack of mitigation of power spikes. Ignoring op builds (a different problem) it's confirmation bias for your preference - your weak to condy so you feel it, your not weak to power so all seems fair.

    im not going to sit here and pretend that there isnt OP power builds. no one character should have the ability to wipe a whole team solo, power or condi...or if they can their needs to be major disadvantages to the class IE they are a glass cannon, its one trick pony with really high CD etc. im all for classes having advantages that make them awesome in specific scenarios. im against (power or condi) being able to evade/block/invulnerable for days and still wipe 3-5 players solo and rinse and repeat with next to no CD. that being said im all for min maxing your character to be the best he/she can be but I will forever stand by my belief that no one character regardless of player talent should be able to tank a whole team worth of players (im not talking about new players either) and still deal as much or more damage then other classes who took all of their attributes to gain that damage. again just saying there needs to be a balance. are there power builds that are just as OP? of course im not denying that. but unless im just completely stupid(a possibility) it takes power, precision, and Ferocity to gain those unreal OP damage levels. I cant drop precision or ferocity, or both and expect to hit those same numbers. im a squishy in order to be able to do that much damage. condi doesnt seem to be overwhelmingly affected so long as you max out condi damage, the other 2 stats can be spent on vitality, toughness, healing power etc. again just my opinion and what ive seen at my levels of competition. thanks everyone for the input.

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