So what is even the future of this game?

[Rasimir.6239]

@Zuldari.3940 said:The problem is this is an achievement based game, most of the players have played for years and have the achievements, so there is not a lot for them to care about doing. Without replay value a game declines, wow is successful because its always adding new content and achievements to go for, its also a progression game. I think staying in one spot all the time is not so great an idea, we need some progression to feel like we are doing something to further us along. You start to stagnate without any forward momentum.Yet there are many people playing this game precisely because they enjoy playing it without chasing after new improvements all the time. Changing the game to be more progression oriented will renew it for some players while turning off others. Only ANet has the metrics that might help them decide which part of the playerbase to target and what kind of gameplay to offer.

[Ototo.3214]

@Zuldari.3940 said:The problem is this is an achievement based game, most of the players have played for years and have the achievements, so there is not a lot for them to care about doing. Without replay value a game declines, wow is successful because its always adding new content and achievements to go for, its also a progression game. I think staying in one spot all the time is not so great an idea, we need some progression to feel like we are doing something to further us along. You start to stagnate without any forward momentum.

There is progression, it's just horizontal instead of vertical.Granted, many masteries feel a bit useless nowadays since they're only usable on certain maps, but this type of progression is what GW2 revolves around and is why many people prefer GW2 over other MMOs with vertical progression.

Besides, at least in my eyes, vertical progression does nothing but give the illusion of progress. You get new gear with more stats so you hit with bigger numbers but now the new bosses also have higher defenses. Ultimately, you haven't really progressed because your damage is still roughly the same by ratio.

Some people apparently like that and the gear treadmill it comes with, so I guess more power to em. But I don't. And prefer the horizontal progression of GW2.

Edit: forgot to add that GW2 does still add new content pretty frequently now, including the boss rushes, forge events, and festivals. Those count as content regardless of if you in particular care about it or not.

[zealex.9410]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:People seem to have this "casual vs hardcore" mentality when discussing gw2 content and its future.That in itself is the core of the problem that was mentioned above. There's an ultracasual content. There's content for mostly hardcore players. There's nothing in the middle. Not anymore, anyway.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:Fractals might have been that, but Anet decided to go more hardcore with them instead.

Tiers 1 to 3 dont exist now?Oh, they do. The shift in difficulty can be seen in those as well, although probably less than in t4's

These multiplerson instances in ff14 are idd repeatable and through roulletes u can do the synced for your dailies.Yes, precisely. One of those roulettes ("Main Scenario") has ben introduced because two of the story instances were the FFXIV:ARR's versions of GW2's Arah Story Mode: 30 and 45 minutes long, and filled to the brim with unskippable cutscenes. Noone wanted to do those a second time, and new players had trouble getting a full party for them. So, the devs added a daily roulette for those two with some major (as far as roulettes go) rewards. And suddenly players started to do those again. Surprising, isn't it?

Compare that to Anet's way of solving the issue.

Idk if that will stay the same, the ff14 devs are going to go back in the old arr content and change it to make it faster and more enjoyable to play.That will maybe entail skipable cutscenes as well.

[Luthan.5236]

At least now we know the next event after champion rush. I guess 1 week without event. Then the mastery experience event and they'll start the next season living world slow paced and not directly with the announcement at august 30 I guess. (And then always the regular festivals and smaller events like boss rushes in between the season episodes.)

New expansion might not impossible though. They might save the deep sea dragon for last ... bringing a huge underwater content expansion for that.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"zealex.9410" said:Idk if that will stay the same, the ff14 devs are going to go back in the old arr content and change it to make it faster and more enjoyable to play.That will maybe entail skipable cutscenes as well.Those cutscenes were skippable initially. It ended with people getting angry at those that watched them, as that blocked progress. It's exactly why they've made unskippable - so veterans won't be angry on new players for playing the content as it was supposed to be played.

Although you may be right, that the instances may get hit by the rework (although my guess would be more on 2.1-2.2 patch relocation fetchquests, and on "wine for the mossman" part of pre-titan questline, as those are really atrocious. Main Scenario instances are now quite liked, because they do give a lot of XP and tomestone currency.)

[narcx.3570]

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:Your echo chamber is showing. Most casuals don't care about the hardcore community, about raids, about most things. Why should they play content that is unfun to them? They don't want rewards, they want fun.

For me the point is: I do not like to play where people judge my build, my DPS.I will play raids, should the DPS-meter user, the rage quitter and party kicker go somewhere else, but I will stay away as long as they are there.

Honestly, that's a pretty sad statement, but it perfectly sums up the state of the game and a big portion of the player base.

People just want rewards, with zero effort, skill, dedication, or grind... And anet caters to them. You can see this every time Anet tres to release something the least bit difficult or time-gated--people mass QQ on reddit, then the memes come, and then 2 weeks later anet nerfs it hard.

Could you even IMAGINE if anet tried to release a reward that you could only get via something on par with some of the daily reputation grinds or speed run challenge mode goals that you see in other MMO's? There would be a riot in the streets cuz people couldn't get their new shiny on the first day (or at the very least the first week.)

[Ashantara.8731]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Zuldari.3940" said:The problem is this is an achievement based game, most of the players have played for years and have the achievements, so there is not a lot for them to care about doing. Without replay value a game declines, wow is successful because its always adding new content and achievements to go for, its also a progression game. I think staying in one spot all the time is not so great an idea, we need some progression to feel like we are doing something to further us along. You start to stagnate without any forward momentum.Yet there are many people playing this game precisely because they enjoy playing it without chasing after new improvements all the time. Changing the game to be more progression oriented will renew it for some players while turning off others. Only ANet has the metrics that might help them decide which part of the playerbase to target and what kind of gameplay to offer.

"Replay value" isn't limited to achievements, or shouldn't be. If the devs brought back the player's choice of story paths, that would increase replayability immensely.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:Your echo chamber is showing. Most casuals don't care about the hardcore community, about raids, about most things. Why should they play content that is unfun to them? They don't want rewards, they want fun.

For me the point is: I do not like to play where people judge my build, my DPS.I will play raids, should the DPS-meter user, the rage quitter and party kicker go somewhere else, but I will stay away as long as they are there.

Honestly, that's a pretty sad statement, but it perfectly sums up the state of the game and a big portion of the player base.

People just want rewards, with zero effort, skill, dedication, or grind... And anet caters to them. You can see this every time Anet tres to release something the least bit difficult or time-gated--people mass QQ on reddit, then the memes come, and then 2 weeks later anet nerfs it hard.

Like the Skyscale? I'm not sure that was 'nerfed hard'.

[Dante.1763]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Zuldari.3940" said:The problem is this is an achievement based game, most of the players have played for years and have the achievements, so there is not a lot for them to care about doing. Without replay value a game declines, wow is successful because its always adding new content and achievements to go for, its also a progression game. I think staying in one spot all the time is not so great an idea, we need some progression to feel like we are doing something to further us along. You start to stagnate without any forward momentum.Yet there are many people playing this game precisely because they enjoy playing it without chasing after new improvements all the time. Changing the game to be more progression oriented will renew it for some players while turning off others. Only ANet has the metrics that might help them decide which part of the playerbase to target and what kind of gameplay to offer.

"Replay value" isn't limited to achievements, or shouldn't be. If the devs brought back the player's choice of story paths, that would increase replayability

immensely

.

it would. I used to make new characters just for the story paths, now though...its kinda boring, i havent made a new character and i havent gotten past the first 30 levels of stories as thats just about where the paths drop off.

[Tiviana.2650]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Future? If you mean direction, I don't think there is a concrete one. Gw2 is all over the place.Anet need to decide to make the game for what audience, you can't be jack of all trades and expect everything to go well.

Well now thats not entirely true.....

WoW is a jack of all trades, and a very popular one. Its a well rounded game, people complain but its mainly hot air, they are still playing. So yes you can have a game that has it all, and a side order of fries.

[baguette.3248]

pretty obvious is it, the future of this game is about skins. Heck, they i wont be surprised if there will be a marrying function, look at these people role playing in DR and LA, making love with them pixels

[Dante.1763]

@baguette.3248 said:pretty obvious is it, the future of this game is about skins. Heck, they i wont be surprised if there will be a marrying function, look at these people role playing in DR and LA, making love with them pixels

Oh no. Not RP in a MMORPG. How -dare- they! also cant tell if sarcasm but it doesnt seem to be.

[narcx.3570]

@"Iozeph.5617" said:Sad statement? It's a bloody video game. Seriously, could you IMAGINE if instead people who sought validation for their existences did so by raising children, or a puppy, or taking up competitive bicycling, motorsport, or painting, or curing a disease, or - making a video game that gives people a release from their every day humdrum lives? But playing a game? This game was never supposed to be that sort of validating experience for the user. Imagine if it were-

.~xXGooberSmashXx~. sets triumphantly behind his keyboard, wipes the sheen of sweat from his brow, then heaves a wearied sigh as he reflects over his accomplishment. "It was a long road, but now I've finally -made diamond Legend/ or cleared this raid wing/ or collected all those minis/ or made the top of the leader boards for this season of ranked- etc. I was born for this. Worked for all my life for it. There's never been one better, and I know it. THEY know it too. And yet... Yet now that it's done I feel hollow... Empty. Adrift on a sea of mediocrity and the human dross who float within it -contented to be carried along wherever its feculent currents take them. But not I! I say thee nay! (slumps in his gaming chair, his mouth settled into a heavy frown) But how? What shall I do? It's all downhill from here now, isn't it? No wine. No women. No swag. Only the slow and easy slide into decrepitude. The retrograde from the ultimate into my second n00bhood. No. I won't bear it! My public won't either. Better to go out at the top of my powers, at the heights of my glory before I fade and give over the respect of my peers in exchange for their pity. No. No, much better to end it now. Good bye, world! You shall be lessened by my passing. /salute"(pulls out gun and blows his brains out, or steps outside and takes one long glimpse of the sun before stepping off the kerb in front of a bus, or tries it on one last time before self-asphyxiating with the cord from his gaming mouse. etc.)

There. There's your sad statement.

Wow, saying that people who are good or care about succeeding at video games are sad losers seeking the validation that is missing from their real lives, who might as well commit suicide without their precious virtual shinies... What an original and contemporary stance. But let's say that people who care about raiding are seeking some sort of validation, whatever...

Let's turn that around and ask what it says about the person who looks at something like raiding, which is at its heart a challenge put forth for a group of people to overcome together, and says, "Yes, I want to do that, but I don't want to actually show up prepared, or take the effort to be helpful to these 9 other people. In fact, pulling my own weight or being held accountable for my contribution is rubbish... No, no, it's is their job to carry me through it, because I want it and I deserve it--just for being me!"

[Obtena.7952]

I love the threads where people are looking for some deep meaning for the future of a video game. It's pretty simple. Anet is going to follow the path of releasing content and selling you skins, keys and chairs. When that plan stops making them money, they are going to pare back like every other game until they have to flip from development to maintenance mode. If it gets really bad, the game just goes away.

It's unlikely this thread is going draw out a roadmap or hint of what's happening with timelines. You get what you get, when you get it, and you won't know until it's ready to be gotten.

[Iozeph.5617]

@"narcx.3570" said:Let's turn that around and ask what it says about the person who looks at something like raiding, which is at its heart a challenge put forth for a group of people to overcome together, and says, "Yes, I want to do that, but I don't want to actually show up prepared, or take the effort to be helpful to these 9 other people. In fact, pulling my own weight or being held accountable for my contribution is rubbish... No, no, it's is their job to carry me through it, because I want it and I deserve it--just for being me!"

Nobody's demanding to be carried. What I've seen for years is people asking for multiple paths toward raiding rewards - even if it takes much, much longer to be able to do it via a token system and a rebalanced version of the wings which requires fewer people to play them. This, so that they're also able to even experience/enjoy the story of the wings, contents they've had just as much if not more a hand in paying for as the current niche group experiencing it, and without having to resort to watching youtube videos to do it.

I haven't once seen people asking to have the rewards for doing objectively less than anyone else. This is a fiction put out by people who feel that their bragging rights are somehow threatened, never mind that anybody getting those rewards is going to be so far behind the curve compared to those who have the wings on farm. That by the time they acquire said items those in proper raiding guilds and alliances will be sporting a new set of weapon and armour skins which visually maintain whatever supposed superiority they believe they're entitled to. Plenty of ways to please everyone here but some just don't want compromise.

When it does come to 'carrying' I don't see anybody in the raiding set complaining about the gold they get for selling runs. But whatever, right? That never happens, right?

This is supposed to be EVERYBODY'S game, yeah? No wrong way to play it? Yet here we are, 2019, and people are still whingeing about casuals versus hardcore/raiders- the sort of argument which, at its heart, is the antithesis of this game.

[baguette.3248]

@Dante.1763 said:

@baguette.3248 said:pretty obvious is it, the future of this game is about skins. Heck, they i wont be surprised if there will be a marrying function, look at these people role playing in DR and LA, making love with them pixels

Oh no. Not RP in a MMO

RP

G. How -dare- they! also cant tell if sarcasm but it doesnt seem to be.

Congratulations, you’re smart enough to figured it out.

[TexZero.7910]

eh the new-old rumor is the big announcement on the 30th is just GW2 for mobile.So what's the future ?

Just compare this to NCSoft's other franchises gone mobile. Medicority with an emphasis on monetization.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@TexZero.7910 said:eh the new-old rumor is the big announcement on the 30th is just GW2 for mobile.So what's the future ?

Just compare this to NCSoft's other franchises gone mobile. Medicority with an emphasis on monetization.

Living World Season 5 will be mobile? Seems far-fetched.

[Rasimir.6239]

@narcx.3570 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:Your echo chamber is showing. Most casuals don't care about the hardcore community, about raids, about most things. Why should they play content that is unfun to them? They don't want rewards, they want fun.

For me the point is: I do not like to play where people judge my build, my DPS.I will play raids, should the DPS-meter user, the rage quitter and party kicker go somewhere else, but I will stay away as long as they are there.

Honestly, that's a pretty sad statement, but it perfectly sums up the state of the game and a big portion of the player base.

People just want rewards, with zero effort, skill, dedication, or grind...

That's not what they are saying. What they are saying is:@Dayra.7405 said:For me the point is: I do not like to play where people judge my build, my DPS.There's a pretty huge gap between not liking to be judged and just wanting rewards for zero effort.

I've done my share of competitive raiding in other MMOs in the past, at the top level. As I grow older, I find that while I still enjoy the challenge raids pose, both at a personal and group level, including matching builds and roles, practicing, and whatever else it takes to succeed, I no longer enjoy the way a lot of (mostly younger) raiders interact with each othe. In my experience that's more often judging and finger-pointing rather than finding the right way for THIS squad and THESE players that may very well get along better with understanding of builds, mechanics, and personal limitations rather than sticking to a strickt theoretical meta setup and throwing around the blame if that doesn't work as expected.

To be honest, raiders haven't really changed that much over the years or between games either, but the older I get, the lower my tolerance for that kind of behaviour drops. I still play raids occasionally if the right squad comes along, but only for the fun of it, not for the rewards.

The first generation of MMO players is around 50 these days, and has very different capabilities and priorities compared to our first games close to 30 years ago. As was said before in this thread, for many of us, fun is much more valuable than in-game rewards. Raiding attracts a kind of player that often doesn't mesh well with us older folks. To say we want rewards for zero effort just because we prefer to play different content with different priorities than you do is in itself a sad statement, as it shows that you don't even try to understand where other people come from and how their goals may differ from yours.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:"Replay value" isn't limited to achievements, or shouldn't be. If the devs brought back the player's choice of story paths, that would increase replayability

immensely

.

it would. I used to make new characters just for the story paths, now though...its kinda boring, i havent made a new character and i havent gotten past the first 30 levels of stories as thats just about where the paths drop off.

Yeah, it's a shame. Playing through the story beyond the core campaign's personal one (pre-Claw Island) really is super boring, especially when you have more than 2-3 characters. Playing through the same content with different characters (different races, different professions) and nothing ever changes, nothing ever leaves you a choice, is very frustrating and repetitive. You no longer feel like it matters which character you play.

[Redavv.2643]

The game has a lot of content which you can decide to play alone if you feel like it or join a group on LFG or party with your friends and create your own fun and content.I have played many mmos in my time my first was Star Wars Galaxies a sandbox game the community created their content the pvp battles etc etc.

Gamers now days need to open 100 boxes and to have something new each day, that does not work. Just grab a few friends and do things in the game roam in wvw . play pvp. go and clear a dungeon and set a goal how fast you can do it. Go to a Hot or Pof map and do achievments and kill everything do events. gather materials which will give you the ability to craft ascended gear for like zero gold.

Dont get into the hype of some streamers which in my opinion many of them have produced a lot of amazing content but they also need to make money and GW2 community does not care that much of watching some one play the game or talk for 5 hours straight about his problems about the game. So in order to succeed they need to find a more profitable game to stream no problem with that in my opinion.

ROLE PLAY MMO's are meant to be played in various ways if you feel alone in the GW2 world join an active guild join their discord join the commanders discord and then you will realise that players create their own fun in any game not just GW2.

Also i dont get why some people hate the gemstore :D GW2 has no sub fee they got to make a living in order to create new content and games.

My only problem with the game is that many people are lazy to read what their traits and skills do they prefer for someone to tell wear this and pick those stats without even knowing what their stats do. And this stats from the starting area of the game GW2 needs to create a new tutorial about everything a class is capable off and about fields and combos etc. That would improve the quality of game play and the players.

[Tarlonniel.6534]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:"Replay value" isn't limited to achievements, or shouldn't be. If the devs brought back the player's choice of story paths, that would increase replayability

immensely

.

it would. I used to make new characters just for the story paths, now though...its kinda boring, i havent made a new character and i havent gotten past the first 30 levels of stories as thats just about where the paths drop off.

Yeah, it's a shame. Playing through the story beyond the core campaign's personal one (pre-Claw Island) really is super boring, especially when you have more than 2-3 characters. Playing through the same content with different characters (different races, different professions) and nothing ever changes, nothing ever leaves you a choice, is very frustrating and repetitive. You no longer feel like it matters which character you play.

I'm with you folks; what makes a game replayable for me is having different ways to interact with the story and develop my character. A new set of skills or a different outfit don't mean nearly as much. I've also got a number of characters "stuck" at Claw Island because there's no point going on. HoT was a breath of fresh air because of how much it changed if your character was sylvari, but we haven't seen anything on that scale since.

Maybe the devs would like to do more branching stories and characterization stuff, but I think we're running into resource limitations here. It seems MMORPGs just can't do player choice the way single player games can, and maybe they shouldn't, maybe it would be bad for these types of games. Even SWTOR went through a similar integration of characters and storylines, despite having a famous IP, the resources of EA and the talent of BioWare behind it.

It's a shame for folks like us who want something different, but I try to accept that different genres have different needs and different priorities. And also that this is a business, in the end.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Tarlonniel.6534" said:I've also got a number of characters "stuck" at Claw Island because there's no point going on.Almost all of my characters are "stuck" there, too, for the same reason. :(

[Rukia.4802]

@knomslayer.9457 said:Dungeons spvp and wvw are fine. People need to learn to use LFGAlso im predicting after the 30th Aug announcement. More people will play Gw2 than wow classic. This is the time to kill wow forever. :angry:

I'm sorry but nothing it keeping me away from WoW classic, tho I do hope some good updates are on the way for GW2 cuz game seems pretty much dead atm. The amazing part of classic this time is we'll permanently keep our progress. I even took vacation on the 30th lol.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Redavv.2643 said:Just grab a few friends and do things in the game roam in wvw . play pvp. go and clear a dungeon and set a goal how fast you can do it. Go to a Hot or Pof map and do achievments and kill everything do events. gather materials which will give you the ability to craft ascended gear for like zero gold.

Been there, done that. No achievements left that I want to do (fractals are quickly boring, too, so I don't feel motivated to finish those achievements), quit PvP 2 years ago for its awful team balance and its toxicity, and I do WvW frequently ATM for the lack of other things to do in this game, have all my characters fully equipped with ascended and legendary gear and attribute infusions.

Seriously, it's boring for veterans at this point, and forcing oneself to make goals up only to have something to do would be a sad testimony of character (I am certain most people can think of better things to do with their free time).