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Suggestion regarding Mounts and Roaming.


Yasai.3549

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@"gebrechen.5643" said:Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

Totally miss the point. A mode like wvw should be threatening to zerg builds on way to their zerg. They should feel danger as soon as they step out of thier camp in fear of predators out in the map not be able to tra la la back to their zerg free of danger. U guys may think it's great for u but it's bad for the health of a open world pvp mode even if its objective based. After the boom of pve'ra coming into get thier mount the wvw population which already wasnt great to begin with has been falling fast and I believe mounts among other reasons are responsible. Enjoy ur ambush free joint back to ur zerg in ur empty lifeless game mode lol.

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@"gebrechen.5643" said:Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

Pretty much this.

Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

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@SoV.5139 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

Pretty much this.

Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

So you are saying that the hardcounter of 1 roamer vs 1 zerger is entirely different from the hard counter of 50 zergers vs 1 roamer?

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Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

"The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

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@SoV.5139 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

Pretty much this.

Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

DzOUpmF.jpg

You were saying?Once they die to you, they dont try again. And not having the ability to fight the only 3 players from an enemy server sort of sucks.

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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

"The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

No I don't mean ganking, I mean roaming.

Like back capping T3 camps, but enemy response time due to mounts makes it suicide.

Even if yu kill a guy repeatedly, they will be back at the capture point within 15 seconds and keep contesting until Guard spawn/ more players start pouring in.

As someone who has done this myself (single handedly contest a T3 camp for 5 minutes waiting for my allies to come and help) I can say roaming in this sense is dead.

If yur content to just pick up paper camps which are getting flipped every 5 minutes near the borders of yur territory so be it.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking,
the following statement is completely untrue
(an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

"The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

No I don't mean ganking, I mean roaming.

Like back capping T3 camps, but enemy response time due to mounts makes it suicide.

Even if yu kill a guy repeatedly, they will be back at the capture point within 15 seconds and keep contesting until Guard spawn/ more players start pouring in.

As someone who has done this myself (single handedly contest a T3 camp for 5 minutes waiting for my allies to come and help) I can say roaming in this sense is dead.

If yur content to just pick up paper camps which are getting flipped every 5 minutes near the borders of yur territory so be it.

Let’s be clear: taking a T3 camp (or T3 anything) is never backcapping......

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Totally miss the point. A mode like wvw should be threatening to zerg builds on way to their zerg. They should feel danger as soon as they step out of thier camp in fear of predators out in the map not be able to tra la la back to their zerg free of danger. U guys may think it's great for u but it's bad for the health of a open world pvp mode even if its objective based. After the boom of pve'ra coming into get thier mount the wvw population which already wasnt great to begin with has been falling fast and I believe mounts among other reasons are responsible. Enjoy ur ambush free joint back to ur zerg in ur empty lifeless game mode lol.

You write a lot without saying "why". Why should you have a clear advantage over someone? Why should someone running to his zerg fear to get ganked by a group of people? The game mode doesn't demand it neither does the rest of the game. That's your vision of the game not a design of the game. You would like to have it that way.

1)And roamers already have a huge advantage in any case.

  • they choose where to fight
  • they have the way better mobility
  • they have way better burst
  • they are in most cases not aloneThe mount only took one of that advantages from you. And many roaming builds can easily dismount a player.

2) Why doesn't the same apply to "your kind of gameplay"?Shouldn't you have to fear too to be ganked or ambushed? Why should this all be exclusive to zerg players? If you are on a roaming build the only thing to fear is dying by boredom or getting run over by a zerg when afk in the ruins.There is no risk for those builds that have the above mentioned options. You can outrun anyone, you can out dps most of the other builds, you have options to reset the fight.Why should that be the case?

And sorry again, but I roam more often than I zerg. Sadly all that "roamer" builds prefer to run from me instead of attacking? I wonder why? Maybe because I don't die in two hits and it doesn't feel rewarding when you have to reset the fight three or four times and still can't win.

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Mounts aren't the direct cause of people avoiding fights, nor are roamers the only ones that pick and choose what they fight. That's why sneaking into towers and ninja capping them is so fun, people will actually fight over those most of the time, and even if I fail the cap, now I have a guaranteed fight as they try to get me out of the tower.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .@Turk.5460 said:I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they
still
wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

@Warkind.6745 said:Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .@Anput.4620 said:

@"Marxx.5021" said:But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

Why don't the bads get this?

It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.Gotta play them Nobles and Knights ?(Its oddly addictive)

Come play Smite with me lol.

I haven't tried that yet lmao I might yet...

Edit: had a look, not my sort of game.

What doesn't look good about it to you?

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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

"The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

Sooo, roaming is PvE now?

Also, ganking means outnumbering, engaging in combat isn't an inherently bad thing to do.

Why does the mode have to be PvE oriented? We have other modes for that, how can a world pvper from another MMO come to WvW and enjoy this in its current state?

I feel like most poeple here just take empty castles, like, why? What is so fun about that?

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SoV.5139 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

Pretty much this.

Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

So you are saying that the hardcounter of 1 roamer vs 1 zerger is entirely different from the hard counter of 50 zergers vs 1 roamer?

Nope.

Try addressing what I did say.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@SoV.5139 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

Pretty much this.

Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

DzOUpmF.jpg

You were saying?Once they die to you, they dont try again. And not having the ability to fight the only 3 players from an enemy server sort of sucks.

Not proving anything I said wrong here or showing me anything I didnt know.

If that guy was a ranger worth anything higher than a silver rating, he'd be somewhere between 1200 and 1500 feet away pew pewing, not standing next to you on a mount waiting for you to blow cooldowns.

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You can literally keep up with a mounted enemy, but you still need to do enough dmg to the mount to get them off it. And even then, the enemy player uses escape skills to further the distance between you and him....and then they remount, and the chase starts all over again. It goes both ways.

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@Warkind.6745 said:Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

If its only that, then its just another letdown. But with the current state of WvW, its not an easy fix to bring it back to life. Even with the long shot; reverting the changes/additions, damage is done.

Will probably need to overhaul entire WvW with everything taken into account (mount etc) to make it work again but even then, no gurantees and opening another can of worms.

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