why players crying about new squad invisible tag now? vets asked for feature long time ago

[X T D.6458]

Invisible tag is at best a double edged sword. But in all honesty, I don't think its healthy at all for the game mode, it just discourages new players and pugs. Ultimately it ends up hurting guilds who rely on that recruiting pool in order to stay active. The last thing WvW needs is a feature that discourages people from playing in it....

[MedievalThings.5417]

@shiri.4257 said:

@radiantbliss.6875 said:Those that wanted to run closed and without a visible tag were doing so for months. Months and months and months. Invisible tag just makes it easier (now if only they would fix party view in the squads). There are a lot of reasons people run closed. Some of which is to keep from getting flooded by non-essential classes. Some to keep from getting too big. I know that last one won't be believed, but some groups do run closed to try to keep from going over 20 or 30. The solution would be is if there is someone you want to follow, talk to the driver. I know this is a far out idea, but maybe join their guild

gasp

.

The top 3 actual reasons why tags run invisible:

1) they don't want the server knowing they failed to defend an objective2) they don't want the server kowing they failed to take an objective3) generate a perception that they are doing anything useful in wvw when they really aren't.

This might partly be true, but:1) their guild may just be doing what they want, so have no interest in defending2) they don't want a mile long random tail showing an enemy which way they may be headed, late to the fight, brings the enemy with them3) yes, people still tag watch and chat watch. Can't tell you how often you see the enemy run the second a defending tag appears because they see it on the map

None of these are contrary to what you have said, but there are endless reasons why people don't want to run tagged for all the world to see.

[Sovereign.1093]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:I think invisible tag should be limited to less than 20 people squads.

Nothing good will come if blob commanders start running discord-only invisible. People won't stick on maps (or join discord) after checking there is no commander.In a healthier environment I would hands down agree with you.At this point in the game though, things are getting so cynical that I believe that some good things could come from overthrowing the "tyranny of the majority". I'm not sure how things are on your current server but on the account I play most of my time on now we're looking at - if people join coms - upwards of 75% have their mics turned off. In squads of 50, it's not uncommon that less than 5 players say anything (useful) over stretches of hours and commanders do mic checks because the dead silence makes them believe their own mics do not work as they talk to themselves.

You can't expect people to talk to strangers so casually. Some people don't actually have mics. The basic expectation is that they may listen and be able to deal with certain movements more easily.

I mean yes they could put in the effort to join your server and not listen to you, but at that point who really cares.

this is true. it took me 6 months before i actually joined mumble in this game. of which before i used solely for competitive starcraft.

[Dawdler.8521]

I have been trying real hard to see any suspiciously coordinated larger groups (10+) running without a tag but I still havent found them. Its only public/raid tags and maybe hidden smaller groups that wouldnt have had tag on before patch either way (<=5).

So tbh the effect of this is still absolutely zero.

But granted, maybe we dont have many guilds left.

[Whiteout.1975]

Just add a NPC champ with a tag to follow around like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Commander_Siegerazer. Maybe make it decently helpful because it's primarily there just to be followed. However, it also lays siege and stuff. Kinda like you're doing a PvE event in sequence towards something else. And behold... A moving Tag.

I'm thinking most people don't want to tag up because they want to be carried. Whatever... Just follow an NPC then as far as I'm concerned. I mean honestly if you saw no public tags for even 1 year... I don't know how these people will survive. Safer to just have a NPC do it as back up IMO ?‍♂️

[Elf Lord.8962]

Problem is, you get o to map, there is bugger all in map chat, less in team chat for 10 minutes. Conclusion - map is empty. Leave so as to not waste time. No WvW for today.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:Problem is, you get o to map, there is kitten all in map chat, less in team chat for 10 minutes. Conclusion - map is empty. Leave so as to not waste time. No WvW for today.If one cannot create content for others, does one deserve content others create?

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:Problem is, you get o to map, there is kitten all in map chat, less in team chat for 10 minutes. Conclusion - map is empty. Leave so as to not waste time. No WvW for today.If one cannot create content for others, does one deserve content others create?

Fair point, but, WvW is not a solo arena, it is supposed to be a team/group effort, is it not.

I play solo in PvE.

In the morning, before I head off to work for instance - I have 15-30 minutes of free time most mornings. But if I log in, and no activity that I can see, I use that time to make progress at World Exploration. :(

If there is visible presence on map, even if it is only 1 or 2 others, I can join and spend that time productively. Or waste it look for people that are not there. I do not have enough time to waste in my day, do not know about you.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:Problem is, you get o to map, there is kitten all in map chat, less in team chat for 10 minutes. Conclusion - map is empty. Leave so as to not waste time. No WvW for today.If one cannot create content for others, does one deserve content others create?

Fair point, but, WvW is not a solo arena, it is supposed to be a team/group effort, is it not.

I play solo in PvE.

In the morning, before I head off to work for instance - I have 15-30 minutes of free time most mornings. But if I log in, and no activity that I can see, I use that time to make progress at World Exploration. :(

If there is visible presence on map, even if it is only 1 or 2 others, I can join and spend that time productively. Or waste it look for people that are not there. I do not have enough time to waste in my day, do not know about you.We are playing a game, its literally a waste of time.

Anyway, I often run alone regardless. Cap some camps, solo some towers, lazy running.

Sometimes I tag up.

Still alone though.

The point is that if there is a vacuum from hidden tags, it will be filled by other visible tags. And thats even assuming they hide it, which they wont because there is no point. Only guilds tag up for other reasons than the need to have a visible tag, thus having some use in hiding it. But you probably wouldnt get to join them anyway.

[Elf Lord.8962]

I play, the for my enjoyment, and to pass the time, but if there is no achievement, then there is no point.

If in the mood for running solo and capping camps then fine. Opening a keep solo is not a problem capping it solo is.

The time of morning I am talking about, I would be very very surprised to find a guild running

[Straegen.2938]

It is a good feature for fight guilds in the short term. In the long term, it will suffocate WvW by leaving behind new players. So many players simply won't play WvW without a tag to follow.

Thanks to the rally mechanic (the real issue here IMO), guild groups don't want rally bots near them so they run/ran silent for years. This is a nice feature they were already sort of using but ultimately it hurts recruitment. They need to end Rally so new/less experienced players are encouraged to join in the fray rather than discouraged.

[Whiteout.1975]

I'm going to state this as I've said many times years ago...

• If we all could all be in the same guild... We still wouldn't be because we would all not get along.

Same is true for groups of all shapes and sizes. More people need to respect the fact, that others whom have a different interest... Have the right to that interest. This would be like me crying because I didn't get invited to some random persons birthday party. Regardless of how fun it is. It just looks bad and ridiculous. Nobody just inherently deserve's that level of entitlement. It's as simple as that.

• Heck you could have the friendliest group/guild out there and another separate group of people still not be really interested in what those others are about. And that's fine... because that just means they have different interests ultimately.

If people want a tag that bad. People should ether do it themselves or preferably just have have an NPC or NPC's to follow to an objective. NPC's because it's irresponsible IMO just to rely on other players for especially long-term form's of content. At the end of the day. Those are fair options because no one is automatically entitled to the leadership of another player; no matter how it may look in game. Players are there to help how and when they want to. Thus, players are not inherently responsible for anyone's content... The game is ?

[enkidu.5937]

Not knowing if there are already some (hidden) groups on the map and what they are doing will give teamplay a big boost and make WvW much more enjoyable, if you log in and see "empty" maps, I'm totally sure ;)

[Sovereign.1093]

for those who want public tags, be the heroes you need. =)

[Finitura.5843]

As someone who used to tag actively for both pugs and guilds in wvw i’m very glad they introduced this feature. WvW is full of self entitled pugs that think commandere HAVE to allow them in their squads even tho they have no intention of contributing anything to the squad itself. They want to freeload on kills and caps and get angry when you don’t do it as they want. And when you kick them they actively try to ruin the other peoples experience by showing their stealthed location or rallybotting when the enemy has downed players. Commanders use their free time to lead in WvW in no way you are entitled to any of this time. I have seen alot of commanders including myself that just don’t bother to tag anymore because of self entitled pugs. So everyone against this change in WvW i highly encourage you to go tag up yourself and not hide it instead of crying on the forums.

[enkidu.5937]

@Finitura.5843 said:As someone who used to tag actively for both pugs and guilds in wvw i’m very glad they introduced this feature. WvW is full of self entitled pugs that think commandere HAVE to allow them in their squads even tho they have no intention of contributing anything to the squad itself. They want to freeload on kills and caps and get angry when you don’t do it as they want. And when you kick them they actively try to ruin the other peoples experience by showing their stealthed location or rallybotting when the enemy has downed players. Commanders use their free time to lead in WvW in no way you are entitled to any of this time. I have seen alot of commanders including myself that just don’t bother to tag anymore because of self entitled pugs. So everyone against this change in WvW i highly encourage you to go tag up yourself and not hide it instead of crying on the forums.Of course you are not forced to teamplay in a team game, makes absolutely sense lol.

[Finitura.5843]

Of course you are not forced to teamplay in a team game, makes absolutely sense lol.

I dont think you understand teamplay. Running after someone while not contributing anything because “i only play core ranger and you have to accept me” is not teamplay. Let me ask you this. You are in a football game (not handegg) and 1 player says sorry i only play with my hands and i don’t want to be a goalie but you have to let me play because i showed up. Am i not a teamplayer for not telling him when and where our next match is?

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Finitura.5843 said:

Of course you are not forced to teamplay in a team game, makes absolutely sense lol.

I dont think you understand teamplay. Running after someone while not contributing anything because “i only play core ranger and you have to accept me” is not teamplay. Let me ask you this. You are in a football game (not handegg) and 1 player says sorry i only play with my hands and i don’t want to be a goalie but you have to let me play because i showed up. Am i not a teamplayer for not telling him when and where our next match is?

You can always make him a ball boy, ... :)

[Finitura.5843]

Read “you have to let me play because i showed up” and you’ll see your comment has no relevance :)

[enkidu.5937]

@Finitura.5843 said:

Of course you are not forced to teamplay in a team game, makes absolutely sense lol.

I dont think you understand teamplay. Running after someone while not contributing anything because “i only play core ranger and you have to accept me” is not teamplay. Let me ask you this. You are in a football game (not handegg) and 1 player says sorry i only play with my hands and i don’t want to be a goalie but you have to let me play because i showed up. Am i not a teamplayer for not telling him when and where our next match is?The really sad thing on this is you don't even have a clue what I'm talking about and what this game mode is about.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@enkidu.5937 said:

@"Finitura.5843" said:

Of course you are not forced to teamplay in a team game, makes absolutely sense lol.

I dont think you understand teamplay. Running after someone while not contributing anything because “i only play core ranger and you have to accept me” is not teamplay. Let me ask you this. You are in a football game (not handegg) and 1 player says sorry i only play with my hands and i don’t want to be a goalie but you have to let me play because i showed up. Am i not a teamplayer for not telling him when and where our next match is?The really sad thing on this is you don't even have a clue what I'm talking about and what this game mode is about.No one knows what you're talking about because you've only made some smug allusion. Make a statement, build arguments and add explanations. That will improve the discussion rather than backing down into a corner where no one dares to talk because they are afraid to "lose".

[subversiontwo.7501]

This discussion, as is often the case when this topic is up, need to make distinctions between the mode, map and groups. The mode is free, the map is relatively free but groups are not. Groups belong to the players who create them. The mode belongs to us all and we can do as we please (within the limits set by Anet). That is the root confusion here that people have trouble distinguishing between: What behaviour is okay for the mode and map, and what behaviour is okay for groups (in groups or groups you do not belong to). They can choose what they do on the maps, same as you. They choose what you do in their groups. Their effort is the life put into the game mode, the content. You can take part in that life or help create that life. You can do that alone, you can do that closed or you can do that openly. The development effort put into the mode should proritize creating that life. Some problems we see in the mode comes from development having lost that focus and taking the creation of life for granted, same as some players do.

If someone throws a party, you get invited or you ask nicely if you can come. While there, you behave and you respect the host. You don't crash a party, drink their booze and complain about their choice of music, selection of beverages or amount of snacks. If you're not invited or can't come you respect that too, you can throw your own party or go to the pub. You have the same right to the public space. You have no right to private space. Expecting tags to accomodate you publicly is like expecting every host to be a bartender, for free.

[enkidu.5937]

@"subversiontwo.7501" said:This discussion, as is often the case when this topic is up, need to make distinctions between the mode, map and groups. The mode is free, the map is relatively free but groups are not. Groups belong to the players who create them. The mode belongs to us all and we can do as we please (within the limits set by Anet). That is the root confusion here that people have trouble distinguishing between: What behaviour is okay for the mode and map, and what behaviour is okay for groups (in groups or groups you do not belong to). They can choose what they do on the maps, same as you. They choose what you do in their groups. Their effort is the life put into the game mode, the content. You can take part in that life or help create that life. You can do that alone, you can do that closed or you can do that openly. The development effort put into the mode should proritize creating that life. Some problems we see in the mode comes from development having lost that focus and taking the creation of life for granted, same as some players do.

If someone throws a party, you get invited or you ask nicely if you can come. While there, you behave and you respect the host. You don't crash a party, drink their booze and complain about their choice of music, selection of beverages or amount of snacks. If you're not invited or can't come you respect that too, you can throw your own party or go to the pub. You have the same right to the public space. You have no right to private space. Expecting tags to accomodate you publicly is like expecting every host to be a bartender, for free.And another one not able to just make a guess what the problem could be with groups hiding their tags in a team game.

Yeah absolutely, WvW is a game mode where everyone can have his / her own parties, absolutely no need to show a tag on the map, to at least let your team members know that there is a group and what it does. Absolutely not needed in a team game. (EDIT: <- forgot to add a *sarcasm for the "I-want-my-secret-private-party-undisturbed"-guys)

[LINKAZZATORE.8135]

@shiri.4257 said:

The top 3 actual reasons why tags run invisible:

1) they don't want the server knowing they failed to defend an objective2) they don't want the server kowing they failed to take an objective3) generate a perception that they are doing anything useful in wvw when they really aren't.

or we don't want to run with people that think like this

[Oette.6098]

I wish they would make it possible that not only Commanders are seen on map, but every player. Why would people roam alone? It is a communitymode.