Profession Development Path Forward Proposals — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Profession Development Path Forward Proposals

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 18, 2019 in Professions

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 and Systems Team

Before I continue, I just wanted to say this will most likely be my last Profession related post on the forums, and I’m sorry for doing the @dev thing so often recently. It’s not intended to annoy the team by any means…

GW2 is pretty awesome, I've spent a lot of money on the game and I enjoy much of what the devs have built overall, but what matters most to me doesn’t seem to get nearly enough attention. I think GW2 has some of the best feeling combat of any fantasy MMO to date, but I also feel that much of the “magic” was lost, or left behind in GW1, when it comes to Professions. Hence why most of my posts are related to class and balance improvements. Also, there is so much to the game that’s extremely repetitive and monotonous, and major profession improvements could be the main factor to combat that…

With the above said, I have some proposals for the Systems Team to think about while going forward, that continue from my thoughts and ideas from this thread… https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing

What are the reasons for the proposals?

  • Profession improvements and updates generate positive buzz throughout the gaming community universe and game news, and indirectly contribute to sales.

  • Think the general consensus from GW1 Vets is that they loved the way Professions were done in that game. Particularly the build options and flexibility to make what you wanted to play.

  • To addresses similar issues, and similar player feelings, we still have lingering around from way back in the day... https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/PvX-Balance-Iteration-Wrongdoing

  • https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/8080/forbes-interview-and-my-thoughts-on-competitive-gameplay-development

  • Profession updates are way too slow, yet professions are super important from a replay-ability and interest standpoint. Players will also invest more time and money into the game the more you do for their characters…

  • To help create better "balance" between professions.

  • To help speed up and smoothen the process of updating professions and creating new things for profession.

What are the proposals?

1 Remove Traits from the Profession equation, and focus on what really matters. Traits add in MORE development time to professions and take away focus from other important areas, and those efforts could best be used doing other meaningful profession updates, improvements and putting out more “fingers on the pulse” balance passes. Want the team to think about removing Traits similar to how Gen 1 and Gen 2 Legendary weapons have been handled. By cutting out the extra “journey” fat, it allowed to team to continue releasing Legendary weapons for the game. I feel that decision was a huge win-win for everyone, and that’s the ultimate goal of these suggestions…

2 Reassign decent trait effects to weapon, healing, utility and elite skills instead. 1 example from this thread… https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64920/weapon-and-build-diversity “Weapon Recharge Reduction Traits... "Remove the weapon cooldown reduction traits and make the 20% reduced skill recharge as the standard/baseline numbers. This will allow for more build diversity because players will not feel forced into trait lines just to improve weapon recharge reduction.”... My best suggestion would be to make the lower recharge times as a standard change AND add in whatever “cool” or unique effects to all Profession weapon skills, healing skills, utility skills and elite skills.

3 Save even more time and resources by doing this instead (players will also appreciate not being blown up in seconds)… https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

4 Add in whatever missing CORE build Slot Skills to fill out categories. Examples… Warrior doesn’t have a true Banner Heal Skill or Shout Elite skill. Thief doesn’t have a Trap Healing skill or Trap Elite or Signet Elite…

5 Add in new themed “Elite Spec” style weapons and Slot Skills REGULARLY, AND INDEPENDENT from Xpacs. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21472/missing-weapon-sets-for-professions-and-some-suggestions. I would even strongly consider making and selling “E-Spec” packs for cash, not on the gemstore, so more resources are available to update the game like all players really want. Also, untie weapon use to an Elite Spec and let players use whatever weapon they want or need. And we can obviously keep the restrictions of limiting builds to 1 E-Spec and their special slot skills at a time, just lock out other E-Spec slot skills until a player wants to change their E-Spec.

6 Work on updating current weapons to become better for competitive play… (This has happened a couple times so far and it had a positive outcome…) A few examples of things that need work and my train of thought…

7 Good solo and roaming builds for any Profession in WvW would be awesome. Yes, we have a mount, but we need personal skills to make that happen… And our characters should be more important in competitive modes over any mount… https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills

8 Start looking at creating COMMON foundation designs for overall balance between Professions, and for smoother future additions… Ideas...

*And just remember what Jon P. said “Jon P: yes, it’s probably the easiest one to get there. But only one in a million people have reached the level of a warrior that really sets them apart.”… True diversity and fun comes from offering unique roles to play and unique skills, NOT creating vastly different character mechanics and skill resources. Even if all professions just used cool downs, instead of whatever resource mechanics, each profession would still be unique.

9 Add in more gear sets more frequently. It’s good for players and good for the economy.

10 Part of the build fun is experimenting with different gears, so maybe look at reducing/shaving off some of the requirements to crafting gears, obtaining gears through gameplay and for transmuting gears… And look at some overall improvements for players to gear up... Things like...

Ending here... If I were tasked with setting the main focus of future development, it would be paid PvE mini-xpacs, paid E-Spec packs and ongoing WvW updates https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq (because GW2 WvW still has potential and there is a market for RvR). I would also want one of the primary goals of the game to ensure that players are having a lot of fun playing any Profession. That would include having great skills to use in any mode, offering a lot of build and role options and also removing as many annoyances from combat and profession designs as possible.

Will have some edits...

Comments

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 and Systems Team

    These would be my suggestion for professions going forward… (will have a bunch of edits, just wanted to post the ideas and concepts)

    PROFESSION MECHANIC CHANGES

    Elementalist
    *Something to consider… As of now, Elementalist has a GRAND TOTAL of 146 weapon skills across 8 weapons. Weaver alone added a WHOPPING 50 WEAPON SKILLS… If changes to Elementalist were made, those 50 skills from that 1 Elite could have covered giving Elementalist 10, out of a potential pool of 14, weapons that are not accessible as of yet (see weapon stuff below for what I mean)… This is what I would do with this profession (yes, I would blow it up and rebuild)…

    Attunements become *self only Toggle Buffs that affect weapon skills. Only 1 can be active at a time…
    1. F1 Fire Attunement toggle- Attune to fire and gain a X% chance to cause AoE Fire burst with any weapon attack.
    2. F2 Water Attunement toggle- Attune to water and gain a X% chance to heal self with any weapon attack.
    3. F3 Air Attunement toggle- Attune to air and gain a X% reduction to weapon swap cooldowns and gain swiftness.
    4. F4 Earth Attunement toggle- Attune to earth and gain a X% reduction to Direct Damage.

    OR

    Alternate Attunement ideas… Summon unique Elemental pets that have various roles and skills. Only 1 pet can be active at any time. These pets have a health bar.
    1. F1- Unique Fire Element DPS pet
    2. F2- Unique Water Element HEALING SUPPORT pet
    3. F3- Unique Air Element NON-HEAL Support pet
    4. F4- Unique Earth Element CONTROL pet

    • 2 weapon slots
    • New E-Spec ONLY needs a max 7 new weapon skills now (and obviously 5 slot skills)
    • Better Condition management

    Engineer
    • 2 weapon slots.

    Guardian
    • I feel guardian is in a decent spot, it just needs access to more weapons and more mobility/ positioning skills

    Mesmer
    *Get rid of the clone spam/summoning design on skills, and change “F” Skill functions.

    Shatter Skills Revamp. These Abilities become *self only Toggle Buffs. Only 1 can be active at a time…
    1. F1 Mind Wrack toggle- Gain a X% chance to cause Illusionary Magic damage with any weapon attack
    2. F2 Cry of Frustration toggle- Gain a X% chance to cause Confusion with any weapon attack.
    3. F3 Diversion toggle- Gain a X% chance to remove a boon on an enemy with any weapon attack.
    4. F4 Distortion toggle- Gain a X% chance to gain Distortion while attacking with any weapon.

    OR

    Alternate F skill ideas… “F” skills become toggles that summon illusionary humanoids (not character duplicates). Only 2 illusionary humanoids can be active at any time. These don’t “blow up”, they fight and have health bars.
    1. F1- Unique DPS “pet” that attacks opponents and has Mind Wrack for a special attack
    2. F2- Unique CONTROL “pet” that attacks opponents and has Confusion for a special attack
    3. F3- Unique NON-HEAL SUPPORT “pet” that attacks opponents and provides non-heal buffs.
    4. F4- Unique TANK “pet” that attacks opponents and has Distortion capabilities

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/34750/inspirational-mesmer-illusion-appearance-change-idea

    Necromancer
    • Get rid of Life Force resources.
    • ALL Shroud Ability mechanics become STANCES gated by a Recharge Timer. Shroud skills are maintained until downed, death or by manually exiting. Shroud is NOT a second health bar. Weapon Skill slots are replaced by Shroud Skills. Slot Skills ARE STILL USABLE.

    Ranger
    • Ranger needs better team based builds and roles, and some reworks.

    Revenant
    • All weapon and Slot Skills go on Recharge Timers. Weapons do not use Energy anymore. Slot Skills use Energy that automatically refills (like Thief Initiative).
    • Better Condition management.

    Thief
    • Future weapons and E-Specs that are LESS focused on damage and MORE focused on things like hybrid damage/team roles
    • Better Condition management.

    Warrior
    • Change some weapons to have mid – long range attacks. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56624/warrior-needs-more-ranged-weapon-options\

    Role OPTIONS For EVERY Profession
    * All Professions have unique Roles to play provided through weapon designs, special Ability mechanics and Slot Skills…

    • Power Damage Role
    • Condition Damage Role
    • Enemy Control Role
    • Team Defense Role
    • Non-heal Buff Support Role
    • Heal Support Role

    NEW WEAPONS ORGANIZED BY PROFESSION
    *Some weapon will be CORE themed weapon add-ons. Some weapons will be CURRENT E-Spec themed add-ons. Some weapons will be NEW add-ons with, or without, E-Spec Slot Skills. Some weapons will be REWORKS of current weapons (need to do more research on weapon across professions for rework ideas)… So I will either mark weapons with CORE ADD-ON, CURRENT ADD-ON, NEW or REWORK.
    *As per usual, each #1 skill has 3 total skills combined.
    *Weapons are released in full sets of 7 skills (three #1 skills plus 4 other slots), made up of (obviously) 1 two-handed weapon OR 1 main hand and 1 off-hand themed SET where possible.

    ELEMENTALIST- 14 Missing Weapons (62 weapon skills total)
    • Axe (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Mace (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Pistol (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Sword (2 off)- CURRENT ADD-ON to Weaver
    • Shield (2 off)- NEW
    • Torch (2 off)- NEW
    • Greatsword (7)- NEW
    • Hammer (7)- NEW
    • Longbow (7)- NEW
    • Rifle (7)- NEW
    • Shortbow (7)- NEW

    ENGINEER- 15 Missing Weapons (62 weapon skills total)
    • Axe (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Dagger (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Mace- (5 main and 2 off) - NEW
    • Sword (2 off)- CURRENT ADD-ON to Holosmith
    • Scepter (5 main) - NEW
    • Focus (2 off)- NEW
    • Torch (2 off)- NEW
    • Warhorn (2 off)- NEW
    • Greatsword (7) - NEW
    • Longbow (7)- NEW- Hybrid ranged AoE damage and heal spec. Fires canisters attached to arrows that have different damage and heal support effects.
    • Shortbow (7)- NEW
    • Staff (7)- NEW

    Guardian- 10 Missing Weapons (34 weapon skills total)
    • Axe (2 off)- CURRENT ADD-ON Firebrand Axe
    • Dagger- (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Mace (2 off)- CORE ADD-ON
    • Pistol (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Sword (2 off)- CORE ADD-ON
    • Warhorn (2 off)- NEW
    • Rifle (7)- NEW
    • Shortbow (7)- NEW

    Mesmer- 11 Missing Weapons (51 weapon skills total)
    • Axe (2 off)- CURRENT ADD-ON Mirage Axe
    • Dagger (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Mace (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Pistol (5 main)- CORE ADD-ON
    • Warhorn (2 off)- NEW
    • Hammer (7)- NEW
    • Longbow (7)- NEW
    • Rifle (7)- NEW
    • Shortbow (7)- NEW

    Necromancer- 12 Missing Weapons (53 weapon skills total)
    • Axe (2 off)- CORE ADD-ON
    • Mace (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Pistol (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Sword (5 main and 2 off)- NEW https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35010/vamppy-e-spec-basic-idea
    • Shield (2 off)- New- E-spec that creates "CC" Skeletal Barriers. Has team defense Slot Skills
    • Hammer (7)- NEW https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/35085/healer-e-spec-basic-idea
    • Longbow (7)- NEW
    • Rifle (7)- NEW
    • Shortbow (7)- NEW

    Various Necromancer Reworks
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/58958/eye-on-necromancer-for-2019

    Ranger- 10 Missing Weapons (39 weapon skills total)
    • Mace (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Pistol (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Sword (2 off)- CORE ADD-ON Ranger sword
    • Scepter (5 main)- NEW
    • Focus (2 off)- NEW
    • Shield (2 off)- NEW
    • Hammer (7)- NEW https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9790/the-fury-a-hammer-weilding-ranger (instead of a power based build, an alternative could be a more of a Condition based ranged AoE build, with stacking Condition damage modifies for the profession Ability mechanic)
    • Rifle (7)- NEW

    Various Ranger Reworks
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63198/useful-nature-spirits-rework-please
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54848/melee-weapon-improvements-please
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39412/eye-on-druid-ideas-yay
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36048/suggestions-to-make-working-condi-builds-for-every-mode-especially-wvw-and-spvp
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab

    Revenant- 13 Missing Weapons (53 weapon skills total)
    *Going to research GW1 wiki to toss in some Legend ideas to think about.

    • Axe (5 main)- CORE ADD-ON Revenant axe
    • Dagger (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Mace (2 off)- CORE ADD-ON
    • Pistol (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Scepter (5 main)- NEW
    • Focus (2 off)- NEW
    • Torch (2 off)- NEW
    • Warhorn (2 off)- NEW
    • Greatsword (7)- NEW
    • Longbow (7)- NEW
    • Rifle (7)- - NEW

    Various Revenant Reworks
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/68686/i-feel-like-enchanted-daggers-could-use-a-makeover
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/68675/suggestions-for-sevenshot
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9802/ventari-tablet-needs-to-be-a-backpack

    Thief- 13 Missing Weapons (50 weapon skills total)
    • Axe (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Mace (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Sword (2 off)- CORE ADD-ON
    • Scepter (5 main)- NEW
    • Focus (2 off)- NEW
    • Shield (2 off)- NEW
    • Torch (2 off)- NEW
    • Warhorn (2 off)- NEW
    • Greatsword (7)- NEW
    • Hammer (7)- NEW
    • Longbow (7)- NEW

    Warrior- 6 Missing Weapons (28 weapon skills total plus weapon reworks)
    *Warrior obviously has the most CORE weapons, so I would suggest the following… Do some weapon reworks (have some ideas below). Add in some ALTERNATIVE weapon version for Warriors to choose from when equipping a weapon.. So like having a CORE Greatsword option and a NEW Greatsword option to select, and so on... This seems like an appropriate bonus for Warrior, that also sets them apart as the GW2 “weapon masters”, while giving all professions access to every weapon.

    • Pistol (5 main and 2 off)- NEW
    • Scepter (5 main)- NEW
    • Focus (2 off)- NEW
    • Shortbow (7)- NEW
    • Staff (7)- NEW- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56119/basic-e-spec-idea-monk

    Warrior Hammer, Daggers and Maces reworks
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56624/warrior-needs-more-ranged-weapon-options

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭

    A lot of good ideas. Although I don't see how removing traits would be a good thing. It would remove a lot in build diversity and this is pretty bad.

    Now, I would remove all traits that do only provide modifiers. They are just boring and not fun. Traits that alter skills or dodge are great by design.
    But it might be over complicated to balance then.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2019

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    A lot of good ideas. Although I don't see how removing traits would be a good thing. It would remove a lot in build diversity and this is pretty bad.

    Now, I would remove all traits that do only provide modifiers. They are just boring and not fun. Traits that alter skills or dodge are great by design.
    But it might be over complicated to balance then.

    Things I want you to consider...

    • Guild Wars 2 · Release date Aug 28, 2012

    • Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is the first expansion pack for Guild Wars 2. It was released on October 23, 2015

    • Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire is the second expansion pack for Guild Wars 2. It was released on September 22, 2017

    Within 6 years and 7 months there have been 2 new sets of Elite Specs per profession and 1 new class (Rev). An Elite Spec consists of 1 weapon type. 5 Slot Skills. 12 Traits.

    It adds more dev time and resources to create Traits, balance Traits over time and to do Skill Splits over time... The proposal takes current Trait effects and ADDS them to skills. Removing the need to produce, and balance in the future, 108 more Trait effects across 9 new profession Elite Specs leaves more dev time and resources to make NEW weapons and NEW Slot Skills, and to improve upon weapons and Slot Skills... The proposal is about adding in MORE Elite Spec weapons and Slot Skills more frequently, and that's where true "build diversity" comes from.

    So would you be opposed to, let's say, the devs being able to give each profession 2 new Elite Specs, with 2 new weapons and 2 new sets of Slot Skills per year, as opposed to the current Elite Spec design that is released every few years and tied to an Xpac? Because ya know, instead of having the devs make 9 new weapon skills, 45 Slot Skills and 108 Traits every few years, I don't think many players would complain if they had more unique Elite Spec weapons and Slot Skills more often... Among other potential improvements the team could devote the time and resources to when they do not have to niggle about traits and skill splits.

  • Remove thiefs kit from other classes.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:
    Remove thiefs kit from other classes.

    Lol yeah during powercreep time alot of thiefs identity ended up spread through various classes,just another way arenanet shows thief love.

  • Think the general consensus from GW1 Vets is that they loved the way Professions were done in that game. Particularly the build options and flexibility to make what you wanted to play.

    Sorry, I have seen no such "consensus." I don't disagree that those who like the GW1 system absolutely loved it and I'm not against ANet considering that affection in their future plans. But please try to avoid speaking for others: quite a lot of people thought that GW1 was great for mathematical diversity and terrible for actual valuable builds. In particular, gear & stats management was horrid.

    It would be more fair to say, "lots of GW1 Vets have asked for something like how professions were handled in the older game..." and go on from there.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    Think the general consensus from GW1 Vets is that they loved the way Professions were done in that game. Particularly the build options and flexibility to make what you wanted to play.

    Sorry, I have seen no such "consensus." I don't disagree that those who like the GW1 system absolutely loved it and I'm not against ANet considering that affection in their future plans. But please try to avoid speaking for others: quite a lot of people thought that GW1 was great for mathematical diversity and terrible for actual valuable builds. In particular, gear & stats management was horrid.

    It would be more fair to say, "lots of GW1 Vets have asked for something like how professions were handled in the older game..." and go on from there.

    I can agree with you, and that's reasonable. I never played GW1, but comments that I have read over the years point to players liking the profession system there, as opposed to here.

    This game reviewer goes over a lot of topics, with comparisons between GW1 and GW2, and the love of the skill system in GW1 is something I've seen in comments through the years.

    If you do watch the video then please let me know what you feel about his comments on professions in GW1.

    Thanks!

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    This game reviewer goes over a lot of topics, with comparisons between GW1 and GW2, and the love of the skill system in GW1 is something I've seen in comments through the years.

    Sure, people who feel something is missing are more likely to complain about its absence; those that prefer the status quo are unlikely to take the time to comment.

    If you do watch the video then please let me know what you feel about his comments on professions in GW1.

    I'm unlikely to watch a "why I don't play" video (and to be fair: I'm unlikely to watch a "why I do play" video either), mostly because so few include any commentary interesting to me, that couldn't be written down in a few sentences.

    Most people who wax enthusiastic about GW1 builds focus on the diversity, while glossing over the appalling mechanics for weapons stats, the high fraction of duplicative or useless combinations, etc. The one thing that GW1 has that is far superior is templates.

    I confess that I was reluctant to trust ANet on GW2 builds: forced skills by weapon choice, a mandatory heal, and only three elective skills... that all sounded worse to me. Except ... in practice, I've found that the actual choices I make in this game are more meaningful and distinctive. There are all sorts of engaging ways to play engie in GW2, but fewer ways to play ritualist successfully in GW1.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    This game reviewer goes over a lot of topics, with comparisons between GW1 and GW2, and the love of the skill system in GW1 is something I've seen in comments through the years.

    Sure, people who feel something is missing are more likely to complain about its absence; those that prefer the status quo are unlikely to take the time to comment.

    If you do watch the video then please let me know what you feel about his comments on professions in GW1.

    I'm unlikely to watch a "why I don't play" video (and to be fair: I'm unlikely to watch a "why I do play" video either), mostly because so few include any commentary interesting to me, that couldn't be written down in a few sentences.

    Most people who wax enthusiastic about GW1 builds focus on the diversity, while glossing over the appalling mechanics for weapons stats, the high fraction of duplicative or useless combinations, etc. The one thing that GW1 has that is far superior is templates.

    I confess that I was reluctant to trust ANet on GW2 builds: forced skills by weapon choice, a mandatory heal, and only three elective skills... that all sounded worse to me. Except ... in practice, I've found that the actual choices I make in this game are more meaningful and distinctive. There are all sorts of engaging ways to play engie in GW2, but fewer ways to play ritualist successfully in GW1.

    I understand, and generally don't watch those types of videos either. Was posted a while back by someone in the spvp section and had some interesting points and info.

    Thanks for sharing your experience!

  • getalifeturd.8139getalifeturd.8139 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    Think the general consensus from GW1 Vets is that they loved the way Professions were done in that game. Particularly the build options and flexibility to make what you wanted to play.

    Sorry, I have seen no such "consensus." I don't disagree that those who like the GW1 system absolutely loved it and I'm not against ANet considering that affection in their future plans. But please try to avoid speaking for others: quite a lot of people thought that GW1 was great for mathematical diversity and terrible for actual valuable builds. In particular, gear & stats management was horrid.

    It would be more fair to say, "lots of GW1 Vets have asked for something like how professions were handled in the older game..." and go on from there.

    I can agree with you, and that's reasonable. I never played GW1, but comments that I have read over the years point to players liking the profession system there, as opposed to here.

    Let me give you an interesting link that might open your eyes to GW1's true complexity. If you look through this website and its archived builds you will find over 1000. This is the website that defined all the builds considered viable over the years:
    https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki
    The game still has new builds being discovered today. There were over 1000 skills and a dual class system that allowed combining professions.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 don’t forget, improving professions and combat so there is more variety and balance is essential for pvp modes!

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    Hey Swag you say this about the resources for WvW, please make a thread detailing where and what in WvW you want the resources to go to. I want to read that.

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭

    The levers that exist for balancing are already good, the handling of those levers has been a bit lacking however.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    GW2 is pretty awesome, I've spent a lot of money on the game and I enjoy much of what the devs have built overall, but what matters most to me doesn’t seem to get nearly enough attention. I think GW2 has some of the best feeling combat of any fantasy MMO to date, but I also feel that much of the “magic” was lost, or left behind in GW1, when it comes to Professions. Hence why most of my posts are related to class and balance improvements.

    No.

    • While some point to GW1's build diversity, many recognize that in terms of what was actually viable and fun, there were actually fewer decent options.
    • You didn't actually play the first game, but instead based a large amount of your case for change of this game's core mechanics on hearsay.
    • Posting videos from people who don't actively play is evidence of nothing more than your ability to be swayed by other people's opinions.
    • You want me to pay ala carte for this game's elite specs? Even at 5 bucks each it works out to 45 bucks for 9 of them. I got 9 and a world of other things for 30 bucks with HoT and PoF. You business model is not friendly to me. It carves out the main reason I buy expansions and tries to sell them to me for more money without any of the other things I enjoy included.
    • This game doesn't need to balance core weapons with buffs. You don't address power creep with more power creep.
    • Obfuscating bad ideas with armchair economics does not make them any better.
    • In one of your own posts you link to as important to your proposed changes you actually suggest a 1-1 Spirit Shard to Laurel conversion. This alone shows you have zero regard for this game's economy. I mean "congrats you just gave everyone sitting on two stacks of tomes of knowledge 1000 gold"

    I know you probably spent a long time and thought pretty hard about this post and you are clearly passionate about this game but the basis of many of your suggestions are weak and poorly thought out.
    Go play actually play GW1, go get GWAMM and then come back and tell us how that game should be emulated in today's market. Think about the actual consumer impact of much of what you are proposing, and stop linking to your own series of posts as if they are valuable when centralized.
    Give actual thought to your ideas instead of dressing up the things you want as somehow beneficial.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2019

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    GW2 is pretty awesome, I've spent a lot of money on the game and I enjoy much of what the devs have built overall, but what matters most to me doesn’t seem to get nearly enough attention. I think GW2 has some of the best feeling combat of any fantasy MMO to date, but I also feel that much of the “magic” was lost, or left behind in GW1, when it comes to Professions. Hence why most of my posts are related to class and balance improvements.

    No.

    • While some point to GW1's build diversity, many recognize that in terms of what was actually viable and fun, there were actually fewer decent options.
    • You didn't actually play the first game, but instead based a large amount of your case for change of this game's core mechanics on hearsay.
    • Posting videos from people who don't actively play is evidence of nothing more than your ability to be swayed by other people's opinions.
    • You want me to pay ala carte for this game's elite specs? Even at 5 bucks each it works out to 45 bucks for 9 of them. I got 9 and a world of other things for 30 bucks with HoT and PoF. You business model is not friendly to me. It carves out the main reason I buy expansions and tries to sell them to me for more money without any of the other things I enjoy included.
    • This game doesn't need to balance core weapons with buffs. You don't address power creep with more power creep.
    • Obfuscating bad ideas with armchair economics does not make them any better.
    • In one of your own posts you link to as important to your proposed changes you actually suggest a 1-1 Spirit Shard to Laurel conversion. This alone shows you have zero regard for this game's economy. I mean "congrats you just gave everyone sitting on two stacks of tomes of knowledge 1000 gold"

    I know you probably spent a long time and thought pretty hard about this post and you are clearly passionate about this game but the basis of many of your suggestions are weak and poorly thought out.
    Go play actually play GW1, go get GWAMM and then come back and tell us how that game should be emulated in today's market. Think about the actual consumer impact of much of what you are proposing, and stop linking to your own series of posts as if they are valuable when centralized.
    Give actual thought to your ideas instead of dressing up the things you want as somehow beneficial.

    I’ll reply to the rest later, but for now...

    “What I'd like to propose is to offer Spirit Shards and Laurels for purchase with gold on a 1 gold for 1 Spirit Shard or Laurel basis without restriction.”

    Also... “I would even strongly consider making and selling “E-Spec” packs for cash”... I never mentioned price, nor selling individual e-specs... And maybe you like profession updates every 3 years, but I can guarantee a lot of people don’t.

    Not sure where you equate rounding out core specs as power creep, but maybe you could explain that one...

    Edit- I'll link what I like, but thanks!

    And in regard to your "armchair economics" comment.. The game doesn't run on free, but I'm sure you want everything free considering you complained about black lion chests and mount skins from a company that doesn't charge a monthly user fee. And speaking of "armchair", if you think my ideas are so "weak and poorly thought out", maybe you can make an effort to create more than 1 thread and offer up some of your own ideas that you think are so "strong and well thought-out"... Somehow I doubt you can do it.

    Edit 2- That person from the video played GW1 and GW2, who also happened to be on one of the top spvp teams. I’ll take his word over yours any day.

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