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Advice from a long time WvW veteran.


Lightsbane.9012

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@TheBravery.9615 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:This is an mmorpg

Living story is largely single player content

Shows you how disconnected arenanet is with their audience.Want to bet that the total player time spent in Dragonfall doing open world content with 100+ other players exceed the total player time spent doing the actual story by at least 1000x?

I don't deny that. However, open world pve is braindead easy, the AI is awful, and content largely solo-able. Even if there's 100 other players fighting a champion it's another dpsfest with lousy loot. I can't think of a time in open world pve when true teamwork is necessary to the same extent as pvp/wvw (e.g. condi removal, boon removal, sustain, stealth etc)Exactly. They make content for their audience.

well kitten i might as well just quit then

Which is what a lot have opted to do.

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As a fellow veteran, I feel your pain. We, pvp-oriented people, have been left to rot.

I don't think it's just gw2 either, MMOs have basically given up on pvp content or are simply too incompetent to make it work. Case in point, RTS games, MOBAs and FPS. That's where people go for their multiplayer fix. In MMOs?....pvp is a side thing, it's not respected as pve is. The sad thing about all of this, it's the MMOs own fault. In a ham-fisted attempt to compete with WoW, they sacrificed pvp in favor of pve: in terms of the gem store, fractals, living world and raids. Like any other MMO, they have developed the "carrot on a stick" in order to get people hooked.

I will say this, though. This is why I appreciate the wvw community. You guys seem to live in reality a bit more, much more so than spvp players. I basically stopped posting on the spvp forum because I was tired of the apologists for the power creep, stale conquest mode. I was tired of people shilling for their classes. I was tired of people shilling for the company whenever they buff your class and cursing it when they nerf yours. It's like how craven can you get! Now, what do we got recently? 2v2? Pft. We've been down this road before. If there's no queue for it, 2v2 is dead on arrival. Mark these words. This has already happened, I think twice. People get hyped up about 2v2 only to realize it's shipped over to the custom servers and...it dies. Nobody plays hotjoin anymore!

But what the f--- do I know, I'm just some guy. I pretty much mostly wvw in gw2, I've basically already moved on games like Age of Empires: a TWENTY year old that is STILL growing! lmao! gw2 and all you goofy ass MMOs...take notes. pve is not the be-all-end-all.

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Sitting here and reading all the post, and reminiscing about a mmo that was just fixing to release,7 yrs ago. Watching the trailer to a game that caught my eye because it was all about guilds, and WvW…"World versus World", that was the seller for me. Now almost 7 yrs later, and the loss of many guilds, lots of good players gone, because no one listens to the people that play this mode. Whether it's Arena net or NcSoft's fault the game is dying. I've played wvw since release, we started with 24 servers and we now have 12, they could actually cut 2-4 more servers, because of the stacking on certain servers. Dev's don't even come into wvw, and when they do, they don't last...pug down...they claim a tower or a camp with Arena net tag, big whoop. The wvw community is dying, the very thing that this game was based on, and it's a shame, that something so good could go to chit in a handbasket, just because they don't understand and won't listen to people that has played this game mode from the beginning. It was great at one time, but I guess it's like everything else, there comes a time for "death"

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@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:Why? Money. Simply money. PVE makes it, WvW didn't and doesn't. Until they figure out how to monetize it better, we won't get bubkus.

I mean, the gemstore makes them the cash with skins you can buy in any game mode. They have warclaw skins for wvw but its only a limited time thing so I guess they don't even wanna make money off of wvw it seems lol

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Changes take too long to implement, if ever and look to remain as a future "possibility" without no indication of it coming into fruition. I think the masses are already tired of talking to walls, after which it incites some form of response from anet (eg vague roadmap, etc) presumably coinciding with gw2 content creators discussions regarding the game and this interaction ceases as suddenly as it came about. Change is welcome, change is wanted, but sometimes the issue with change is what is being implemented and how it affects things overall, and whether it is actually needed at all for the game mode. All in all, there is no doubt that WvW is neglected and only being drip fed once in a blue moon. I do sincerely hope that this changes starting with the announcement, but many have already lost their heart & hope for this mode. Kudos to those that can still soldier on despite this.

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@TheBravery.9615 said:This is an mmorpg

Living story is largely single player content

Shows you how disconnected arenanet is with their audience.

I'm not sure that is true. If so many players actually are casuals, they actually are very much in touch with their audience. And as to people quitting or demanding more hardcore content: I do disctinctively remember that we had at least one hardcore MMO (Wildstar?) in the last 5 years and that didn't pay off.That hardcore games can pay off, we know. Dark Souls was very succesful, but probably a lot less intense in maintenance than your typical MMO is.Centering an MMO purely around PvP and realm-vs-realm content probably would not be enough to carry a game either. IIRC Warhammer online tried that approach.

So, in order to make a sustainable game, we need the PvE content, we need the casuals, and the hardcore community cannot carry the game. No amount of whining will do anything about it.I would suggest making most, if not all content scalable. They did a good job with fractals. From T1 to T4 + CM anyone should be able to find at least some challenge there (though of course true hardcore players will always whine). Why can't we do the same for raids? Invest 20% more time to make the content 100% (or more) more accessible, for PUGs like me.

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Warhammer online had the same format as gw2, pve/rvr/bgs, it wasn't purely about rvr, it closed because it was buggy, laggy, had a sub, owned by EA who hates mmos, and the warhammer license between ea mythic and games workshop expired, it wasn't because rvr failed.

Wildstar was built to be more raid oriented, I don't know what the main problem for the game was, I played it a couple levels when it was free to play and it was boring and didn't stick with me, but I guess the raids weren't good enough to keep players.

Now if a game gets released to certain audience of players, the game developers should probably continue developing those areas of the game for those players, if they want continued support. Shifting into new areas is ok post release, but you still need to/should look after your older customers. Abandoning dungeons, ignoring wvw/spvp, shoe horning raids into a game built on casuals comes to mind here.

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@Elf Lord.8962 said:Give us a few Tournaments so that the player skill base, can improve ...

Not the fix to issues, but it would give folks something to focus on.

Generally: Do something with WvW. A new tournament, some kind of new content, new events, something that will keep things moving and player interested. If we're not fixing the problem anytime soon, at least do something with it. Show more people, what fun WvW is (and that is despite all the issues).

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@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

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My main problem with WvW is that the fight-system for 1vs1 nowadays mostly reduces to first-hit wins very fast. CC & Damage bursts are out of control (for longer fights healing and recovery are likely out of control as well).

So it reduces to better reflexes and better internet connection. That's quite boring

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

So your only hope is to somehow retain what few there are remaining? Those updated lists of server populations show it's failing miserably no matter what.

But as for now I'm glad there's still somebody in WvW buying my blueprints on the trading posts!

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

@"Dhemize.8649" said:So your only hope is to somehow retain what few there are remaining? Those updated lists of server populations show it's failing miserably no matter what.

No, of course I hope we'll find a way to win more new players. But whining is not gonna do that.

Oh boi, you must be new here.

No matter how much anyone whines, complains, has a deep, friendly and fully analyzing topics of problems and how to solve them. Anet simply does not listen to the community. They never have, they never will, in fact they go on a completely opposite route with everything that the players have always wanted.

"From a dude whose been playing WvW since 2013".

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Whatever new content, events, or gimmicks you throw into WvW right now it will still remain just a large team match with no sense of persistence or connection to any server or alliance and most of the maps being unused due to efficiency. With my hour or more after work I have to get in on whatever action is around during a ever smaller prime time and most of that action will be dictated by points and time constraints. This mode is disconnected from the rest of the game and any time elsewhere is time away from WvW, but this mode is not open world so there's none of the exploration or feeling of lived in maps, only a triangle corner vs corner. There's only so much stretching and fine tuning we can do with our builds in such a funneled game mode before prime time fizzles out again.

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@Dhemize.8649 said:

@"nthmetal.9652" said:Show more people, what fun WvW is (and that is
despite
all the issues).

But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

I said, "To raise the base skill level of players"

Not to convince people to return.

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@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@"nthmetal.9652" said:Show more people, what fun WvW is (and that is
despite
all the issues).

But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

I said, "To raise the base skill level of players"

Not to convince people to return.

Which is why I didn't quote you.

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@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:Why? Money. Simply money. PVE makes it, WvW didn't and doesn't. Until they figure out how to monetize it better, we won't get bubkus.

So much this. WvW is a side hustle for ANet and GW2 with a tiny fraction of the players in the game overall. One could argue they love the mode because they have certainly poured more into the mode than they have gotten back out of it financially.

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@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

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@Lightsbane.9012 said:You give everything to the pve players as if they do not already have it, and give us nothing. When does wvw get the same respect as living story?

I don't even agree with a lot of what you've said, e.g. paying attention to the forums (they have and do, but that's ONE reason the game is a mess - they listened to the wrong people), and you can't state that they give us NOTHING because we just got a new mount!

.... yet there's something about WvW that feels like it HAS been neglected, like there's something REALLY BIG that the devs could have been doing to make the mode better overall. Identify that thing. Tell us what it is that the devs should have put their resources into - instead of churning out their boring monthly new map, currency, play-it-once attention-grabbing content that could (cynically) be seen as simply maintaining sales by creating gem store items in coordination with the new PvE content and leaving little else for the studio to be producing. It's boring. I'm playing a competitor's product now instead. That merry-go-round nonsense is annoying.

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