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Condition Builds 2.0


Swagger.1459

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I’ve seen like, maybe, a couple of ranger condi builds in wvw, so I’d like to make a few suggestions to provide this profession working, and competitive, builds outside of power builds.

SHORTBOW

TRAPS

  • Give back throwable traps (as a standard function, not trait related) to this profession. Only this profession. 900 range option.
  • Reevaluate the damage and cc on these so they are a lil more impactful.
  • Considering the Trapper Expertise Trait has a Boon buff... “Boons and conditions caused by your traps last 60% longer.”, perhaps we could add some Boons to actually buff... Yeah, I know the heal takes advantage of that buff, but there aren’t any other ones.

SAMPLE TRAP IDEAS

NEW ELITE TRAP

  • Causes Torment on foes. Gain Might on trigger. OR Daze foes. Refreshes all traps when triggered. OR Causes Blindness on trigger. Gain Fury when triggered. OPTION- Up to 900 range ground target.

DAGGERS STILL REALLY DO NEED LOVE PLEASE?!?!https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab

DRUID STAFF (Druid is really lagging behind overall btw. This entire spec could be so much cooler and fun with some reworks)

  • Staff 1- Add 1 burning condition to the 3rd attack tick. The low damage and low healing make adding conditions to this skill ok.
  • Staff 2- Add a few burning conditions and increase radius to 300. All effects hit 5 enemies and allies within the radius. The current 130 radius is not enough to support allies so the increased radius would help. This change would also be a useful for helping to contribute to breaking up the tight zergs.
  • Staff 3- Add a short duration burning condition trail and burning condition aoe burst around the user at the end of the skill movement.
  • Staff 4- Make this a circular patch, like all those other aoe patches, and add bleeding. The current cone design is awful to use in any movement based combat, so the aoe design allows this skill to be useful. This would also make the skill useful for zerg breaking and sieging structures in wvw.
  • Staff 5- Make this skill an aoe dome. The current small rectangle design is as useless as vine surge. This change allows us to support better during mass combat situations.

*These changes provide this profession with viable condi build options, and contribute to the much needed build diversity.

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I have played the stealth trapper build in plat with WS, NM, skirmishing. It's certainly not meta, but it is good damage and quite slippery with all the stealth. It has a high health pool with carrion amulet and a decent amount of sustain with traits. I run short bow and axe/torch. I recommend people try it out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear Sir @Karl McLain.5604 ,

Would you please consider my suggestions to help provide Ranger, Druid and Soulbeast specs some viable condi builds in WvW and SPvP? I have not seen any competitive condi builds in WvW, and it's a shame that most WvW Soulbeast builds utilize longbow/greatsword, or longbow/sword and warhorn, instead of those daggers...

Thank you!

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THROWING TRAPS

Bringing back Throwing Traps would, IMO, instantly buff Condi rangers in WvW and PvP. That little thing can change everything.

DAGGERS

There are many things they need to buff to make MH Dagger viable. It doesn't have evade, support and enough impact. A thief can use Daggers very well, because they have access to many evade, shadowstep, stealth and impactfull damage. An ele can use dagger well, because the sets give them plenty of aoe, mobility, self sustain and support. A spellbreaker can use daggers well, because warrior traits and skills already give them lots of tools and synergy to play with it.

A ranger has to invest a lot to make the Daggers work. I think most of the problems come from our OH. Warhorn is fine (Hunter's Call could use a buff), Torch is only condi damage with no support, then Dagger has an evade with a terrible Crippling Talon. If you use Torch or Warhorn, you're very naked and squishy. If you take Dagger, your damage is weak. Also, beside Ambidexterity and Predator's Cunning, I don't see any direct trait for Daggers. Predator's Cunning doesn't give enough life steal so that sticking and hitting to your target, while tanking the damage, was advantageous. It's not. For a melee weapon, it needs more defense, support and self sustain.

Actually, I feel nothing in the traits of Soulbeast was made for Daggers. Just by looking the Minors ! Furious Strength ? The dagger gives no Fury. Twice as Vicious ? The daggers can't disable. They could give MH Dagger a cripple or immob to start with, because we can't really stick to a target with it. You'll have to use Muddy Terrain or Entangle or OH Dagger or a pet skill.

CONDI AND PETS

Now, what about condi pets and Soulbeast...

Another thing that could have been good for Condi Soulbeast was Iboga, but they gave it Confusion (Which is nerfed) and Torment, which are 2 things we never had before and have no other ways to stack. Why didn't they just go with Bleed and Poison ?

After months of waiting, they finally fixed Poison Gas from Spiders, but it wasn't enough to make us pick it over other pets. Poison Gas is on a 20 secs cooldown, which is very long for something that applies only poison for 4 secs.

Then you have Bristleback, one of the best condi PvP/WvW pet. Nothing is wrong with it, it's in a pretty good position, but Rain of Spikes is bugged. In the note on Wiki, it says '' This skill misses in almost all circumstances as it aims at the targets' feet (or below).''.

STAFF

If they can look at Primal Echoes, which is super useless and make it into a real offensive staff trait. I mean ok, I can understand the cooldown reduction, but nobody will take it over Druidic Clarity.

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@Krispera.5087 said:THROWING TRAPS

Bringing back Throwing Traps would, IMO, instantly buff Condi rangers in WvW and PvP. That little thing can change everything.

DAGGERS

There are many things they need to buff to make MH Dagger viable. It doesn't have evade, support and enough impact. A thief can use Daggers very well, because they have access to many evade, shadowstep, stealth and impactfull damage. An ele can use dagger well, because the sets give them plenty of aoe, mobility, self sustain and support. A spellbreaker can use daggers well, because warrior traits and skills already give them lots of tools and synergy to play with it.

A ranger has to invest a lot to make the Daggers work. I think most of the problems come from our OH. Warhorn is fine (Hunter's Call could use a buff), Torch is only condi damage with no support, then Dagger has an evade with a terrible Crippling Talon. If you use Torch or Warhorn, you're very naked and squishy. If you take Dagger, your damage is weak. Also, beside Ambidexterity and Predator's Cunning, I don't see any direct trait for Daggers. Predator's Cunning doesn't give enough life steal so that sticking and hitting to your target, while tanking the damage, was advantageous. It's not. For a melee weapon, it needs more defense, support and self sustain.

Actually, I feel nothing in the traits of Soulbeast was made for Daggers. Just by looking the Minors ! Furious Strength ? The dagger gives no Fury. Twice as Vicious ? The daggers can't disable. They could give MH Dagger a cripple or immob to start with, because we can't really stick to a target with it. You'll have to use Muddy Terrain or Entangle or OH Dagger or a pet skill.

CONDI AND PETS

Now, what about condi pets and Soulbeast...

Another thing that could have been good for Condi Soulbeast was Iboga, but they gave it Confusion (Which is nerfed) and Torment, which are 2 things we never had before and have no other ways to stack. Why didn't they just go with Bleed and Poison ?

After months of waiting, they finally fixed Poison Gas from Spiders, but it wasn't enough to make us pick it over other pets. Poison Gas is on a 20 secs cooldown, which is very long for something that applies only poison for 4 secs.

Then you have Bristleback, one of the best condi PvP/WvW pet. Nothing is wrong with it, it's in a pretty good position, but Rain of Spikes is bugged. In the note on Wiki, it says '' This skill misses in almost all circumstances as it aims at the targets' feet (or below).''.

STAFF

If they can look at Primal Echoes, which is super useless and make it into a real offensive staff trait. I mean ok, I can understand the cooldown reduction, but nobody will take it over Druidic Clarity.

I actually made several suggestions to all points you brought out here.

First:Dagger, Torch and WH:

Torch: Ammunition on throw torch. Hits now 3 targetsand cripples. Bonfire is now Ground target. So you can use it on range or in melee but its easier to position and you can utilize more synergies with i.e dagger MH. You can throw bonfire and torch and jump into the field at your target for finisher.

WH: Blind on first hit on HC would be nice, could also be implemented by go for the eyes trait.

Dagger MH:Double Arc should apply heavy poison instead of bleeding and your next pet attack should daze instead if apply poison. Double synergy achieved.Instinctive engage should be an evade.

Dagger OH:

Tgis weapon lacks 1 particular thing: ImpactBut without changing weapon identity i have an easy solution to add dmg to this weapon.

First let it hit more targets. 3 targets on talon and on strike. Strike has now more range and some kinda indicator how far you can reach with your blade.

Second add ammunition. 2 on strike and 3 on talon.

This way Dagger OH is a spammy fast annoying evasive weapon with more use in PvE.And even better in PvP.

Spiders:

I would actually change the spider in many ways.

  1. Change the web shot into an immobilizing field.
  2. Remive the poison gas as an autonomous skill of the pet and replace it with deadly poison from firest spider F2.
  3. Change all F2 into poisonfields that apply poison + a soecific condition.

-> Blackwidow/ junglespiderField now immobilizes on pulse.-> ForrestspiderField applies 2 stacks of poison per pulse-> CavespiderField applies weakness.

All fields are ground targetable.

Staff:Chabge primal echoes to a standalone trait that stuns on weaponswap and make natural mender into the staff trait as a major.

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  • 1 year later...

@"Abyssisis.3971" said:Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

Theres way more wrong with the daggers then that. The majority of it is rooted in the Dev's perception that the Dagger is just a static DPS weapon for Raid builds. Its auto attack is slow, its chain sequence is longer and back loaded, 2 skill is just extra bleed stacks and potentially a DPS loss over the auto chain, 3 skill is ridiculously situational due to the Dagger's small strike arc, the historically inconsistent range of leap skills, its tendency to fire on the far side of small hit boxes, and its slow wind up speed; all of which contribute to making the conditional "on strike" quickness unreliable as a source in mobile fights. The weapon has zero utility in mobile fights (which includes fighting most champs), and is further highlighting the problem with Ranger's layout, and its highly scattered and overly narrow, function specific skills.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh boy, my last message on this thread was on april and they only fixed BMode Bristleback.

I'm playing Condi SBeast lately and I just can't help but feel miserable when I try to tag with ranger condi weapons. Why is our Shortbow so terrible for AoE when Thief and Revenant shortbows are AoE monsters ? Like many asked already, Crossfire should hit adjacent targets, like Volley in GW1 (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Volley), that would make it feel a little less tedious.

Using the new ''buff'' from Quick Shot doesn't help in the overall DPS Benchmark, you actually lose DPS from trying to get LoyF buff. Too much back delay/leap animation.

Also, just remove the Flanking bonuses from LoyF/Shortbow, it just doesn't work for a Condi weapon. I can understand flanking for Power weapons, but Condi ? Just NAH, not effective.

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@"Abyssisis.3971" said:Would also be nice for sharpened edges and hidden barbs to be merged into a single trait.

Totally agree. I made a thread about this in the old forums, I believe. Ranger is the only profession having a MAJOR trait on ''Bleeding on Critical Hit'', all the rest are minors. Just look on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding. All the rest are Minors, because they give 33% chance. Sharpened Edges used to give 66% chance, which is why it was a Major, but it does 33% like all other minors.

The Ranger has no trait that gives longer bleeding duration, when it should be the Bleeding King. All the other classes do (those with Bleeding traits). By logic, Sharpened Edges should gives 2 Bleeding while merged.

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@"Revolution.5409" said:The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

Well, we can’t step on the toes of thieves now, and besides, rangers can’t have nicer things lol

“Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.”

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Revolution.5409" said:The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.

Well, we can’t step on the toes of thieves now, and besides, rangers can’t have nicer things lol

“Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.”

This is something I missed. I expect the guild wars, thief's skills in the next update! LOL

Even rituals would have been an alternative solution for traps, we hope anet does not recycle ranger skills (gw) for other professions xD

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No, we get recycled skills of other professions..

Berserker’s major master traitDead or Alive 30 second cooldownReceiving fatal damage while in berserk mode ends berserk and heals you. Incoming healing is increased.Healing 5,220Incoming Healing Increase 10%

Vs

Souldbeast major grandmaster traitEternal bond 60 second cooldownWhile in beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of beastmode and recover health.Healing: 3,924 (1.5)?Protection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage

Only somehow we get a worse off version despite being a higher tier trait. Rangers cannot have nice things haha

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About Trap

  • Can throw as standard function, When have traits throw/instal trap Place addition trap on your spot too.I like old passive trap when heal downstage friend,when you heal them you will auto place trap under your place it troll a lot...

About Traits "Sharpened Edge+Hidden Bards" Merge to 1passive traits.

  • You and your pet bleed is danger also your Sharpening stone will more effective.
  • you and your pet Active lesser Sharpening Stone when ???.-It can solve bleed problem? And no need to be cri.

Torch

  • skill 5 bonfire can BBQ,Year I SAID can cook BBQ!!Burn foe and heal friend!!

ShortbowIt fair enough about flanking position.But range should be back to 1200. we master at range weapon we should handle it better.Light on your feet should effect with any evade-weapon and when Endurance not full should have active traits too.(because your foot is light run more roll more move more)

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Trappers expertise should also come with a break stun, similar to dragonhunters trap trait.

For example..When disabled, break stun and drop a spike trap on your position. 45 second cooldownIncrease the duration of boons and conditions applied by traps. Traps gain reduced recharges and offensive ones cause cripple.Cripple3 sec -50% Movement SpeedRecharge Reduced 20%Duration Increase 60%

I believe we also need an elite trap.

For examplePitfallTrap 60 second cooldownPlaces a trap that strips enemy stability and knocks them down for 3 seconds.Damage 500 (or whatever)Applies 8 seconds of confusion and weakness.Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability for 3 secondsNumber of targets 5Trap radius 180Effective radius 240Unblockable

Hidden barbs should be replaced with..

Sharpened barbsYou and your pet have a chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.Chance on Critical Hit 33%Bleeding 3 sec 88 damageBleeding you inflict is more dangerous.Damage Increase 33%(soulbeast applies 2 stacks of bleeding for 3 seconds when merged with pet)

Shortbow, I definitely reckon 1200 range as well.

And bonfire should pulse blind as well.

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:No, we get recycled skills of other professions..

Berserker’s major master traitDead or Alive 30 second cooldownReceiving fatal damage while in berserk mode ends berserk and heals you. Incoming healing is increased.Healing 5,220Incoming Healing Increase 10%

Vs

Souldbeast major grandmaster traitEternal bond 60 second cooldownWhile in beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of beastmode and recover health.Healing: 3,924 (1.5)?Protection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage

Only somehow we get a worse off version despite being a higher tier trait. Rangers cannot have nice things haha

Worth noting that there are fewer restrictions to get into beastmode than berserk. It requires the initial adrenaline investment and has a time limit. Beastmode is indefinite (granted you will want to hop in and out)

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  • 1 month later...

@"Swagger.1459" said:I’ve seen like, maybe, a couple of ranger condi builds in wvw, so I’d like to make a few suggestions to provide this profession working, and competitive, builds outside of power builds.

SHORTBOW

I don't mind the sbow as it is now, I do use some flank sigils with it. If they do a rework on it please let it never be like renegade sbow.

TRAPS

  • Give back throwable traps (as a standard function, not trait related) to this profession. Only this profession. 900 range option.
  • Reevaluate the damage and cc on these so they are a lil more impactful.
  • Considering the Trapper Expertise Trait has a Boon buff... “Boons and conditions caused by your traps last 60% longer.”, perhaps we could add some Boons to actually buff... Yeah, I know the heal takes advantage of that buff, but there aren’t any other ones.

All the things that were changed a long time ago, which people deemed problematic [then] would feel at home in this post pof age, like traps being able to be thrown again. They also need to look at updating core stuff on every class to keep up which have no use in the current meta era, just in general

SAMPLE TRAP IDEAS

About the alacrity one, I dunno. Would be weird and doesn't make sense to me.

NEW ELITE TRAP

  • Causes Torment on foes. Gain Might on trigger. OR Daze foes. Refreshes all traps when triggered. OR Causes Blindness on trigger. Gain Fury when triggered. OPTION- Up to 900 range ground target.

An elite trap would be nice, I always wanted one, and make it an ammo skill. It either has to be an offensive or defensive one, and not both.

DAGGERS STILL REALLY DO NEED LOVE PLEASE?!?!https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab

I am still waiting on this as well, it's too scary canary for me to use it as mainhand in wvw. I will keep trying anyways. I am ok with offhand dagger for the most part.

DRUID STAFF (Druid is really lagging behind overall btw. This entire spec could be so much cooler and fun with some reworks)

  • Staff 1- Add 1 burning condition to the 3rd attack tick. The low damage and low healing make adding conditions to this skill ok.
  • Staff 2- Add a few burning conditions and increase radius to 300. All effects hit 5 enemies and allies within the radius. The current 130 radius is not enough to support allies so the increased radius would help. This change would also be a useful for helping to contribute to breaking up the tight zergs.
  • Staff 3- Add a short duration burning condition trail and burning condition aoe burst around the user at the end of the skill movement.
  • Staff 4- Make this a circular patch, like all those other aoe patches, and add bleeding. The current cone design is awful to use in any movement based combat, so the aoe design allows this skill to be useful. This would also make the skill useful for zerg breaking and sieging structures in wvw.
  • Staff 5- Make this skill an aoe dome. The current small rectangle design is as useless as vine surge. This change allows us to support better during mass combat situations.

*These changes provide this profession with viable condi build options, and contribute to the much needed build diversity.

I can't say much about druid side of things, I still like mine the way it is but I will accept any changes.

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Please stop trying to push condi druid… Condi druid led to a bad playstyle were players thought they were good because they were tanky and doing damage when none of them knew how to support.Doing passive damage without thinking is just bad.

Staff is already a good weapon. Only 2 and 4 need improvements.2 is strong in PvE because heals a lot of players and has a lot of ticks. In PvP it is bad because it is dangerous to get close for the heal and in a small aoe. Leading to a heal weaker than regeneration. Suggestion :Add a defense or damage boost to allies.4 has some potential even if this is slow. Suggestion : Add healing on dispell and dispell more conditions (slow and torment) or make it work like the revenant road. (edit : it does dispell yourself my previous message was wrong, sometimes it does not seem to work if you run in the opposite direction)Druid avatar needs faster spells and keeping some astral force progression on death. Glyph of alignment (Healing version) is one of my favorite druid skills. It is fast and effective. (also underestimated even in PvE).

What druid already has in his kit is :Support/buffer build (might, stealth and previously even dmg boost on a glyph)Healing build (dispels, increased healing)Weakening enemies (daze, control)THOSE ARE THE 3 ASPECTS THAT SHOULD BE IMPROVED. Making druid a full team player /support and not a solo player (like the staff cd reduction on allies). Either choosing to be strong healer, a strong buffer or someone decreasing enemies strength.

For shortbow I like the flanking.

Traps giving buffs would be nice even if that would be weak. I miss when spike trap was the shortest cd trap… It was a small immob but it made other traps way more consistent. (edit : what is funny is that the "training ranger" in the sPvP area still throws his traps, he even throws the old spike trap with immob)

Dagger needs some sustain. My main issue is that even in PvE the dagger is weak. I know this is used in the power slb build but I think sword should be used (it is way easier since you just need to auto) and this is clearly not what the dev wanted. Slb synergy with dagger is weak I agree with Krispera

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