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So what is even the future of this game?


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@Tiviana.2650 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Future? If you mean direction, I don't think there is a concrete one. Gw2 is all over the place.Anet need to decide to make the game for what audience, you can't be jack of all trades and expect everything to go well.

Well now thats not entirely true.....

WoW is a jack of all trades, and a very popular one. Its a well rounded game, people complain but its mainly hot air, they are still playing. So yes you can have a game that has it all, and a side order of fries.

True, you need difficulty scaling or options if you want cater for huge audience while outside pve you can only able to cater to one audience. However, gw2 never meant for multiple audiences, it doesn't has this concept of difficulty scaling or options, this much is seen in dungeons and raids. I doubt they have the resources to pull it off either.

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@SkyShroud.2865 said:

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Future? If you mean direction, I don't think there is a concrete one. Gw2 is all over the place.Anet need to decide to make the game for what audience, you can't be jack of all trades and expect everything to go well.

Well now thats not entirely true.....

WoW is a jack of all trades, and a very popular one. Its a well rounded game, people complain but its mainly hot air, they are still playing. So yes you can have a game that has it all, and a side order of fries.

True, you need difficulty scaling or options if you want cater for huge audience while outside pve you can only able to cater to one audience. However, gw2 never meant for multiple audiences, it doesn't has this concept of difficulty scaling or options, this much is seen in dungeons and raids. I doubt they have the resources to pull it off either.

I understand that, all im saying is they attracted that multiple audiences by putting raids and pvp/wvw in the game. Now you have to deal with those audiences that want to have content progression too. And while they may be smaller than the open world players...but they also play open world so dont forget that, they are still a large group of players.

Also not to be ot but what happened to the forums? They changed yesterday

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@"JTGuevara.9018" said:I ask this question because although obviously gw2 is not dead, it is in trouble. The more I play this game, the more it becomes a single-player, cash grab, WoW "killer", like every other typical MMO. Where's the plan concerning gw2 as it stands? Sure there is living world- s5, but....then what? How long can this game survive with just living world and gem store? I actually don't even CARE about expansions or gw3. Honestly, those will solve nothing, not the core issues regarding this series. If the expansions or gw3 are merely single-player, gem store oriented, cash grabs then what is even the point of playing them?

What I notice about gw2 is the disturbing lack of group content. I'm not even talking about hard content like fractals or raids, just general group content: something that is so basic regarding MMOs. Where are the guild functions? Why have dungeons, spvp & wvw been abandoned? Why is there no group content that people can get into to encourage socialization--example: player housing, bounty systems, job systems, etc? I notice that gw2, like other MMOs, generally caters to the single-player, instant loot gratification crowd.

Honestly, I'd rather scrap the expansions or gw3, and fix the game at this point...

Because most ppl play MMOs solo for most of the time. So why wouldn't you cater to the largest crowd? Also, player housing? In what MMO is that such a social experience? Maybe in a RP guild? And what has solo playing with "instant loot gratification" to do? If anything solo playing enables a playstyle that is at your own pace, rather than rewards and progress that need to cater to the average time window of ~1hr that a group stays together before someone has to leave.

And as you said yourself it's like that in ESO, WoW, GW2, BDO pretty much every major MMORPG. And once you cater to the hardcore "organized groups only" players, you'll end up like Wildstar etc. with no players at all, since the hardcore gamers that want to do organized group stuff might be the majority on the forums but only <5-10% in any major MMO I've ever played.

And no, imo it's not really possible to have ppl grouping up without having content that requires them to do exactly that. In other words, making the content so hard that only an organized group can push through it, because otherwise you simply don't need a group and even if you make one regardless, there won't be any need to communicate.

Also, let's face it. At least half of the ppl you meet in MMOs are annoying and incompetent (and more so in the "open world" of these MMOs than in instanced dugeons etc) and they have no respect for you, as in they make you wait, they run into groups of mobs no one wanted to clear, they have no rotation and the wrong gear and do no damage, they can't dodge attacks, they blame you when they mess up etc.

In short, gouping up is a major hassle. Therefore, to make ppl group up together, you need to give them an incentive that is stronger than the obstacles they face by grouping up. So unless you want to ruin the economy by throwing 10 times more rewards at ppl simply because they run around in a group or unless you want to annoy players by arbitrary game mechanics that for no reason other than forcing the group feature on to them, require several ppl to stand on pressure plates or similar other stuff like that, you have no other choice other than making content so hard that you simply have to search for other ppl to complete it.

And since I am personally convinced that GW2 is the goto MMO for ppl that are 35-40+ years old and/or with kids and a very busy RL, that play for like 2hrs a week, I am not at all convinced that harder and especially organized group content, that requires some sort of commitment to the game and some basic knowledge of game mechanics in general, is what GW2 players want.

Only way I see to have ppl grouping up is to have a hardmode for the entire GW2 open world content with 5 times the rewards and 5 times the difficulty or whatever, so if you want that group experience, choose HM and get into a group, then go and do the usual events.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:And since I am personally convinced that GW2 is the goto MMO for ppl that are 35-40+ years old and/or with kids and a very busy RL, that play for like 2hrs a week

If that was true the game would be empty and dead at this point. Fortunately the game has lots of players that play every day to keep alive and going.

As I see it, if what I said was not true the game would be already empty and dead. How many serious MMO gamer play GW2 all year long? Without any new content other than 2hrs of story every 3-4 months? Imo the answer is very few.

The uber casual mother that plays 2 hrs every week however has no issue whatsoever with so little new content. The game is easy enough, caters to a playstyle of simply jumping right into action by participating in any way with any event, so you don't even need know anything about the game and just auto attack a world boss to get the same rewards.

You get every 4 months 2 hrs of story and a map and that's more than enough to keep you busy for playing several weeks.

The many years old content like silverwastes or whatever these casuals do is still not boring, since you play it only like 2-3 times for a few minutes ever month.

Gw2 is the perfect MMO for these ppl. But if you want to play 2+ hrs every single day? Dear lord. Better look for another game.

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@Adenin.5973 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:And since I am personally convinced that GW2 is the goto MMO for ppl that are 35-40+ years old and/or with kids and a very busy RL, that play for like 2hrs a week

If that was true the game would be empty and dead at this point. Fortunately the game has lots of players that play every day to keep alive and going.

As I see it, if what I said was not true the game would be already empty and dead. How many serious MMO gamer play GW2 all year long? Without any new content other than 2hrs of story every 3-4 months? Imo the answer is very few.

If every player of the game plays only 2 hours in a week then explain why you find enough players to complete meta events every day. Does this game have 100 million players to support a 2 hour/week playstyle? It doesn't, we already know that. Reality and your claim don't support each other. No game can survive with players playing only a little bit in a day/week, they require players to play every single day. And fortunately this game does have those kind of players.

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@Raknar.4735 said:

@"Goettel.4389" said:Only thing I do is group content, you might have missed it. Use LFG.

Even better: Use a commander (or Mentor) Tag. That gathers groups in Open-World quite fast, commander & LFG together even better.

And I don't worry if raids and the rest of the DPS-community dies out :) I would rather see it as gain (less toxic people) than as problem.

gain???? GAIN????!!???!!?

poor casual soul...Maybe, maybe not, but definitely allergic against the attitude of many hardcore player.Hardcore community dies= game dies.Pfft, GW2 exist long time without raids and DPS Meter ;)

hardcore community dies, and you will be left w/o snowcrows guides/builds etc...content creators/streamers, most of them are hardcore, no more of them equals to no more gw2 pressence in youtube, twitch etc.So, no more new players which leads to casual community dieing too.

End of guild wars

You see, there is a simple fact you're ignoring about the casual playerbase: they don't use the guides and builds.The youtube and twitch presence of GW2 is already small enough that it doesn't matter for new players.

You're actually delusional if you think the hardcore community is "carrying" the game.

Hardcore people ARE carrying the game ...casuals come and go... they are not doing anything much for community or Anets pockets...It is us who spend money and keep the game alive

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:

Honestly, this makes me sick to my stomach that somene wants this game to lose people because you can't do the harder content.Just being a devil's advocate here. It isn't that players don't want to do harder content. Quite the contrary. It is that they don't want to do the harder content with builds for speed runs. DPS meters seem to prevent this choice, especially when they are used to kick players. This behavior is what stems the "toxic" argument.

What do speed runs and dps meters have to do with anything? Those that don't want to use those builds can band together and finish the content playing with like minded individuals. If their problem is indeed the builds and the meters. But it's not, the dps meters and speed runs is only an excuse. A rather weak excuse.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:And since I am personally convinced that GW2 is the goto MMO for ppl that are 35-40+ years old and/or with kids and a very busy RL, that play for like 2hrs a week

If that was true the game would be empty and dead at this point. Fortunately the game has lots of players that play every day to keep alive and going.

As I see it, if what I said was not true the game would be already empty and dead. How many serious MMO gamer play GW2 all year long? Without any new content other than 2hrs of story every 3-4 months? Imo the answer is very few.

If every player of the game plays only 2 hours in a week then explain why you find enough players to complete meta events every day. Does this game have 100 million players to support a 2 hour/week playstyle? It doesn't, we already know that. Reality and your claim don't support each other. No game can survive with players playing only a little bit in a day/week, they require players to play every single day. And fortunately this game does have those kind of players.

A meta event needs <50 ppl. Also GW2 has a megaserver infrastructure, so unless there are less than 50 ppl playing on that map on your entire continent, you will always find players to do the meta events and the map and cities will look populated, this will probably be still the case in 10 years when the game is no longer getting new updates but the server are still running.

Also, ever played on a private server? I've played on a WoW private server and never saw so many ppl on a server in my entire life. That doesn't mean that this private server had more ppl than retail WoW. It had like 5k ppl max playing at the same time, vs hundreds of thousands on retail WoW. So "populated" world and finding "enough ppl", expecially when you have a megaserver which has only that one purpose, to always make the world appear populated, is a very flawed argument to make when you want to find out if the game has a large population or not.

And when I look what Anet does, the Living world content schedule, that 100% caters to the ppl I described, the ridiculous cash shop that certainly caters not to school kids but more to ppl that have 2 cars and a big house and can spend 25€+ for a skin, the fact that the game has no item hunt/gear treadmill, so that the casuals that don't really play the game still can do everything, all of that just tells me that the GW2 target audience can't be the MMO gamer that plays every single day.

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@MetalGirl.2370 said:

@"Goettel.4389" said:Only thing I do is group content, you might have missed it. Use LFG.

Even better: Use a commander (or Mentor) Tag. That gathers groups in Open-World quite fast, commander & LFG together even better.

And I don't worry if raids and the rest of the DPS-community dies out :) I would rather see it as gain (less toxic people) than as problem.

gain???? GAIN????!!???!!?

poor casual soul...Maybe, maybe not, but definitely allergic against the attitude of many hardcore player.Hardcore community dies= game dies.Pfft, GW2 exist long time without raids and DPS Meter ;)

hardcore community dies, and you will be left w/o snowcrows guides/builds etc...content creators/streamers, most of them are hardcore, no more of them equals to no more gw2 pressence in youtube, twitch etc.So, no more new players which leads to casual community dieing too.

End of guild wars

You see, there is a simple fact you're ignoring about the casual playerbase: they don't use the guides and builds.The youtube and twitch presence of GW2 is already small enough that it doesn't matter for new players.

You're actually delusional if you think the hardcore community is "carrying" the game.

Hardcore people ARE carrying the game ...casuals come and go... they are not doing anything much for community or Anets pockets...It is us who spend money and keep the game alive

Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

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@Raknar.4735 said:

@"Goettel.4389" said:Only thing I do is group content, you might have missed it. Use LFG.

Even better: Use a commander (or Mentor) Tag. That gathers groups in Open-World quite fast, commander & LFG together even better.

And I don't worry if raids and the rest of the DPS-community dies out :) I would rather see it as gain (less toxic people) than as problem.

gain???? GAIN????!!???!!?

poor casual soul...Maybe, maybe not, but definitely allergic against the attitude of many hardcore player.Hardcore community dies= game dies.Pfft, GW2 exist long time without raids and DPS Meter ;)

hardcore community dies, and you will be left w/o snowcrows guides/builds etc...content creators/streamers, most of them are hardcore, no more of them equals to no more gw2 pressence in youtube, twitch etc.So, no more new players which leads to casual community dieing too.

End of guild wars

You see, there is a simple fact you're ignoring about the casual playerbase: they don't use the guides and builds.The youtube and twitch presence of GW2 is already small enough that it doesn't matter for new players.

You're actually delusional if you think the hardcore community is "carrying" the game.

Hardcore people ARE carrying the game ...casuals come and go... they are not doing anything much for community or Anets pockets...It is us who spend money and keep the game alive

Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

Hardcore people are carrying the game..I'm a hardcore player and still spent £70 last week alone getting that RNG outfit ...

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:

Honestly, this makes me sick to my stomach that somene wants this game to lose people because you can't do the harder content.Just being a devil's advocate here. It isn't that players don't want to do harder content. Quite the contrary. It is that they don't want to do the harder content with builds for speed runs. DPS meters seem to prevent this choice, especially when they are used to kick players. This behavior is what stems the "toxic" argument.

What do speed runs and dps meters have to do with anything? Those that don't want to use those builds can band together and finish the content playing with like minded individuals. If their problem is indeed the builds and the meters. But it's not, the dps meters and speed runs is only an excuse. A rather weak excuse.

I completely agree. I was just offering a perspective to answer the earlier poster.

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@MetalGirl.2370 said:

@"Goettel.4389" said:Only thing I do is group content, you might have missed it. Use LFG.

Even better: Use a commander (or Mentor) Tag. That gathers groups in Open-World quite fast, commander & LFG together even better.

And I don't worry if raids and the rest of the DPS-community dies out :) I would rather see it as gain (less toxic people) than as problem.

gain???? GAIN????!!???!!?

poor casual soul...Maybe, maybe not, but definitely allergic against the attitude of many hardcore player.Hardcore community dies= game dies.Pfft, GW2 exist long time without raids and DPS Meter ;)

hardcore community dies, and you will be left w/o snowcrows guides/builds etc...content creators/streamers, most of them are hardcore, no more of them equals to no more gw2 pressence in youtube, twitch etc.So, no more new players which leads to casual community dieing too.

End of guild wars

You see, there is a simple fact you're ignoring about the casual playerbase: they don't use the guides and builds.The youtube and twitch presence of GW2 is already small enough that it doesn't matter for new players.

You're actually delusional if you think the hardcore community is "carrying" the game.

Hardcore people ARE carrying the game ...casuals come and go... they are not doing anything much for community or Anets pockets...It is us who spend money and keep the game alive

Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

Hardcore people are carrying the game..I'm a hardcore player and still spent £70 last week alone getting that RNG outfit ...

Have you seen all the casual players running around with that outfit?You're a pretty small sample size, to say that hardcore players are carrying the game without having the actual stats is meaningless.

If all hardcore players would spend a lot of money, Anet would create more content for that specific target audience. Yet they mostly create content for a different target audience.I wonder why?

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@Raknar.4735 said:Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

Let's be clear here. Average hardcore players are not rich players, not by a long shot. Those that have tons of gold to buy everything they want by converting are farmer/grinders, those that spend their hours in-game looking for the easiest possible content with the maximum amount of gold rewards.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

Let's be clear here. Average hardcore players are not rich players, not by a long shot. Those that have tons of gold to buy everything they want by converting are farmer/grinders, those that spend their hours in-game looking for the easiest possible content with the maximum amount of gold rewards.

I'm not claiming they are rich, just that they in general are more likely to use the conversion to buy things from the gemstore, since they have a capital from raiding / fractals. The casual players that MetalGirl probably has in mind, the "come and go"-type will not farm nor grind. They will most likely use their money if they want something "shiny" from the gemstore.

It's obvious there are many types of hardcore players. Some only PvP, some only WvW, some only Raid, some play the whole game day and night and farm/grind.I agree that my statement "Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting" is wrong, deliberately exaggerated. What i wanted to express is that the average hardcore player has more gold than the average casual player.

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@Raknar.4735 said:

@"Goettel.4389" said:Only thing I do is group content, you might have missed it. Use LFG.

Even better: Use a commander (or Mentor) Tag. That gathers groups in Open-World quite fast, commander & LFG together even better.

And I don't worry if raids and the rest of the DPS-community dies out :) I would rather see it as gain (less toxic people) than as problem.

gain???? GAIN????!!???!!?

poor casual soul...Maybe, maybe not, but definitely allergic against the attitude of many hardcore player.Hardcore community dies= game dies.Pfft, GW2 exist long time without raids and DPS Meter ;)

hardcore community dies, and you will be left w/o snowcrows guides/builds etc...content creators/streamers, most of them are hardcore, no more of them equals to no more gw2 pressence in youtube, twitch etc.So, no more new players which leads to casual community dieing too.

End of guild wars

You see, there is a simple fact you're ignoring about the casual playerbase: they don't use the guides and builds.The youtube and twitch presence of GW2 is already small enough that it doesn't matter for new players.

You're actually delusional if you think the hardcore community is "carrying" the game.

Hardcore people ARE carrying the game ...casuals come and go... they are not doing anything much for community or Anets pockets...It is us who spend money and keep the game alive

Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

"Converting" is really just buying gems from people selling their. They were bought with money first so anet does make money from it.

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@Haishao.6851 said:

@"Goettel.4389" said:Only thing I do is group content, you might have missed it. Use LFG.

Even better: Use a commander (or Mentor) Tag. That gathers groups in Open-World quite fast, commander & LFG together even better.

And I don't worry if raids and the rest of the DPS-community dies out :) I would rather see it as gain (less toxic people) than as problem.

gain???? GAIN????!!???!!?

poor casual soul...Maybe, maybe not, but definitely allergic against the attitude of many hardcore player.Hardcore community dies= game dies.Pfft, GW2 exist long time without raids and DPS Meter ;)

hardcore community dies, and you will be left w/o snowcrows guides/builds etc...content creators/streamers, most of them are hardcore, no more of them equals to no more gw2 pressence in youtube, twitch etc.So, no more new players which leads to casual community dieing too.

End of guild wars

You see, there is a simple fact you're ignoring about the casual playerbase: they don't use the guides and builds.The youtube and twitch presence of GW2 is already small enough that it doesn't matter for new players.

You're actually delusional if you think the hardcore community is "carrying" the game.

Hardcore people ARE carrying the game ...casuals come and go... they are not doing anything much for community or Anets pockets...It is us who spend money and keep the game alive

Casuals come and go and spend their money because they don't have gold.Hardcore players and Veterans have enough gold to buy everything by converting.Hardcore people are not carrying the game.

"Converting" is really just buying gems from people selling their. They were bought with money first so anet does make money from it.

I mean, that's obvious. But someone that only converts from gold -> gems doesn't give Anet money directly. It does increase the value of the gems -> gold conversion, so it is more enticing to buy gold via gems, increasing gem sales.

The initial gem purchase that changes the value of the conversion makes Anet money.The question is: who does purchase more gems, the casual community or the hardcore community? I'd bet it's the casual community.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:eh the new-old rumor is the big announcement on the 30th is just GW2 for mobile.So what's the future ?

Just compare this to NCSoft's other franchises gone mobile. Medicority with an emphasis on monetization.

Living World Season 5 will be mobile? Seems far-fetched.

I didn't mention LS5. I said the rumor is the big announcement is gw2 mobile.

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@TexZero.7910 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:eh the new-old rumor is the big announcement on the 30th is just GW2 for mobile.So what's the future ?

Just compare this to NCSoft's other franchises gone mobile. Medicority with an emphasis on monetization.

Living World Season 5 will be mobile? Seems far-fetched.

I didn't mention LS5. I said the rumor is the big announcement is gw2 mobile.

And yet ArenaNet specifically said the 'big announcement' was about Living World Season 5.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:eh the new-old rumor is the big announcement on the 30th is just GW2 for mobile.So what's the future ?

Just compare this to NCSoft's other franchises gone mobile. Medicority with an emphasis on monetization.

Living World Season 5 will be mobile? Seems far-fetched.

I didn't mention LS5. I said the rumor is the big announcement is gw2 mobile.

And yet ArenaNet specifically said the 'big announcement' was about Living World Season 5.

Source needed.

This says absolutely nothing about LS - https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/dont-miss-our-special-announcement-event/Clicked to the additional link and it says a first look at LS. 45 minutes for just a first look ? Doubt it, you wouldn't hype a special event for trailer that will last all of 3 minutes and still have 42 minutes of stage time.

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@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:"Are you ready to catch the very first look at an all-new chapter in Guild Wars 2‘s Living World story?"

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/join-us-for-a-special-live-event-on-august-30/

Again 3 minute trailer 42 minutes of stage time. Doubt.Even the HoT Pax event had more than a first look and ran for about the same time. There's more than just a "first look" going on.

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