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What your feeling on Forced Engagement and Dwarf in general?


Knighthonor.4061

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@alain.1659 said:

@alain.1659 Problem with ventari is that game is all about boon stacking, ANet made game so dumb that anything else is almost not needed... reason ventari isnt much used and tends to be extremelly dificult to be efficient with it.I play ventari/herald in WvW..... and actually dropped playing guardian long time ago, amazing heals altough u need to predict the spike zone, clear condis, KB the warrior bubble on their pushes..

Its a game design issue towards spam .. that is putting good designed classes/roles into oblivion.

I kinda feel that some portion of this thread have a bit "OMG class cant carry me" issue...

You are right about game being a boon spam. Just tried fb tonight and boons were just flying in the air. It is easier and more useful than any support I have tried, like tempest, scrapper or rev. Yet about boons, sadly the meta is based on them. So either other professions should be nerfed or rev should be buffed a little to compete with them.

Ps: any ventari or general rev advices are welcomed :)

I dont think Ventari itself needs too much. IMO a 2 second cooldown on Ventari's Will would offer a huuuuge increase in its reliability. They could put a 3s ICD on Blinding Truths to prevent more blindspam. Beyond that I really do think Purifying Essence could be increased to 30e in order to grant it a self-stunbreak functionality and increase it to 4 conditions cleansed. It's easy to say it doesn't need a stunbreak when you have a gaggle of FBs covering your kitten in stab, but the spec is laughably easy to shut down if it's the solo support. Also, regen needs to be implemented into its kit, whether it be through a trait or its base kit.

Now the healing orbs, which were supposed to offer healing possibilities outside of Ventari...don't get me started on those.

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All they need to do for Forced Engagement is make it a non projectile taunt.

That projectile is not only blocked by bodies, it also has a slow travel time, issues which almost every slow projectile skill in the game suffer from (like Scorpion Wire, Glint shield 4 and Spectral Grasp)

As for Rite of the Dwarf, I like it as a passive and an Ancient Echo, but yea the Elite skill version of it is pretty garbage.

Jalis could be tweaked to :

-Heal with Condition Cleanse-Forced Engagement with no projectile, being a simple targeted taunt (and this isn't op or broken since many other skills in the game are also targetted CC)-Stunbreak Rite of the Great Dwarf, reduces incoming damage for 3s after casting with a 30 Energy cost, bringing it more in line with other Legend Stunbreaks-Hammers-Elite should be the brick road, but a toggle. Functions similarly to Scourge's Trail of Anguish, pulsing stability to allies on it, damages enemies if they cross or step onto the brick road.

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I feel Forced Engagement could use one extra second of its condi application in PvP/WvW. Not enough to be OP, but enough to have it be respected.

Rite of the Great Dwarf feels like a very expensive stun break while its actual effect I feel isn't even helping. I'm sure it probably is, but it doesn't feel like it's doing anything. Maybe it could also supply partywide retaliation?

Other than that, I'm fine with Dwarf. Wouldn't touch a thing.

EDIT: Just thought of something. Add a 1/4 second daze to the initial hit of Forced Engagement to allow it to actually interrupt mobs in PvE instead of it just saying it does.

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@KidRoleplay.3615 said:I feel Forced Engagement could use one extra second of its condi application in PvP/WvW. Not enough to be OP, but enough to have it be respected.

Rite of the Great Dwarf feels like a very expensive stun break while its actual effect I feel isn't even helping. I'm sure it probably is, but it doesn't feel like it's doing anything. Maybe it could also supply partywide retaliation?

Other than that, I'm fine with Dwarf. Wouldn't touch a thing.

EDIT: Just thought of something. Add a 1/4 second daze to the initial hit if Forced Engagement to allow it to actually interrupt mobs in PvE instead of it just saying it does.

That’s exactly what I think of RotG. It’s such a great skill with such a great theme.

My suggestion would be to interrupt / daze enemies on the initial cast of RotG. Just a 0.25s. Or make RotG grant barrier. This skill has to feel powerful. ATM I don’t feel the damage reduction at all.

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When you compare rev to FB, rev is obviously gonna come up short on everything besides raw healing, which rev dominates. Thing is, most people don’t want raw healing. FB poops boons at ridiculous rates and it’s things like protection, aegis, and stability while being able to do respectable healing. FB can also buff people to receive more healing, and while this sounds like a good place for rev to jump in, it just ends up being that you take more FB’s; Ventari is also the hardest heal spec to play while FB is faceroll easy.

So FB is the better boon support and utility healer, what about defense? Well FB wins here too. Jails as the defense focused legend has no skills that give protection...why? It gives 20% damage reduction on hammers and 50% on RotGD, but no protection boons for allies? Hammers are completely selfish, a single target taunt is laughable, as well as Anets attempts at making taunt be viable and increasing revs defense against taunted foes. IR needs to be an upkeep that pulses around the rev, not some dinky road that gets left behind and doesn’t even last long; rev as a heavy class is pathetic in terms of stability access. Heal is good, no complaints. The elite is good on paper, but everyone has already mentioned what’s wrong with it. IMO, this could also be an upkeep, making Jalis a kind of Glint but with more expensive upkeep’s that give stronger effects; make condition damage reduction baseline. FB gives retaliation, aegis, protection, stability, and a toughness buff from one skill on a cooldown less than 10 seconds, and a pulsing resistance field on a similar cooldown. Tell me why anyone would want a Jalis rev over a FB?

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@CutesySylveon.8290 said:When you compare rev to FB, rev is obviously gonna come up short on everything besides raw healing, which rev dominates. Thing is, most people don’t want raw healing. FB poops boons at ridiculous rates and it’s things like protection, aegis, and stability while being able to do respectable healing. FB can also buff people to receive more healing, and while this sounds like a good place for rev to jump in, it just ends up being that you take more FB’s; Ventari is also the hardest heal spec to play while FB is faceroll easy.

So FB is the better boon support and utility healer, what about defense? Well FB wins here too. Jails as the defense focused legend has no skills that give protection...why? It gives 20% damage reduction on hammers and 50% on RotGD, but no protection boons for allies? Hammers are completely selfish, a single target taunt is laughable, as well as Anets attempts at making taunt be viable and increasing revs defense against taunted foes. IR needs to be an upkeep that pulses around the rev, not some dinky road that gets left behind and doesn’t even last long; rev as a heavy class is pathetic in terms of stability access. Heal is good, no complaints. The elite is good on paper, but everyone has already mentioned what’s wrong with it. IMO, this could also be an upkeep, making Jalis a kind of Glint but with more expensive upkeep’s that give stronger effects; make condition damage reduction baseline. FB gives retaliation, aegis, protection, stability, and a toughness buff from one skill on a cooldown less than 10 seconds, and a pulsing resistance field on a similar cooldown. Tell me why anyone would want a Jalis rev over a FB?

Rotgd reduces damage for 5 allies and affects golems and it’s easy to spam it, core rev can even apply it more times, if isn’t a boon means even better cause can’t be removed.....There a trait that also affects condi but on 90icd.

I dont understand ur logic of boons are better than rotgd, jalis also applies direct uncorrupted 20% damage reducer on f2 from herald to 10 players, stability for allies as well, jalis don’t need to apply boons nor need to be a FB.

Jalis is very viable and a different role from fb.Imagine jalis a class to make damage with support to reduce health being dropped so the firebrands can heal

Fb is more a overall supporter, lots of heals and boons, and some defensive books to help party, in wich interact pretty well if I have a decent jalis user.Ventari for heals is another thing, in won’t replace fb, but will make life of the fb easier.

Fb can’t catch huge spikes besides few skills, ventari has lots of 5k-11k direct heals, with a 1k passive to 10 players... 1k per sec..10 players regen, also fury might and prot o herald as passive.

None can’t susbtitute each other, this 3 builds can complement each other.

If u are on nsp or whenever u link to nsp, search XD guild and play with us.

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It’s important to remember that A single legend is only about 23% of a Revenant’s toolkit. It isn’t a fair 1 to 1 comparison to say “why isn’t Jalis as good as FB” when Jalis is a total of 5 skills and FB is a total of 33. A more accurate comparison would be “why isn’t Revenant as good as FB (for support).”

Legends don’t exist in a vacuum and so that should be factored into any critiques

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:It’s important to remember that A single legend is only about 23% of a Revenant’s toolkit. It isn’t a fair 1 to 1 comparison to say “why isn’t Jalis as good as FB” when Jalis is a total of 5 skills and FB is a total of 33. A more accurate comparison would be “why isn’t Revenant as good as FB (for support).”

Legends don’t exist in a vacuum and so that should be factored into any critiques

The thought did immediately strike me that if you were going for a protective rev, Jalis+Glint means you have good access to protection on Glint, and the 10% damage reduction (which stacks with protection) is also in the mix, although you can't provide both at the same time.

It's also worth remembering that Firebrand has a fairly long cooldown on Tome of Courage - while they have access to decent support outside of ToC, you can't compare what a Firebrand can do with ToC up against what a revenant can do in a reasonably sustainable fashion.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:It’s important to remember that A single legend is only about 23% of a Revenant’s toolkit. It isn’t a fair 1 to 1 comparison to say “why isn’t Jalis as good as FB” when Jalis is a total of 5 skills and FB is a total of 33. A more accurate comparison would be “why isn’t Revenant as good as FB (for support).”

Legends don’t exist in a vacuum and so that should be factored into any critiques

The thought did immediately strike me that if you were going for a protective rev, Jalis+Glint means you have good access to protection on Glint, and the 10% damage reduction (which stacks with protection) is also in the mix, although you can't provide both at the same time.

It's also worth remembering that Firebrand has a fairly long cooldown on Tome of Courage - while they have access to decent support outside of ToC, you can't compare what a Firebrand can do with ToC up against what a revenant can do in a reasonably sustainable fashion.

Swap out Dwarf for Ventari. What changed?That's the thing, Dwarf is replaceable here compared to firebrand which is also its own set of 8 skills. Dwarf has 6 skills. Ret as well if you count that as its specializations and Firebrand. Most of the best support on Rev comes from other sources. Defense wise what does it provide really? Not even comparing to other classes here. But Inhouse. ROTGD is not all that. On paper yes but not in action. Pure avoidance is best defense. A short duration damage reduction effect that don't even effect conditions in its stock form is not really all that good. In WvW that damage reduction won't really save you in a zerg due to how stacked offensive DPS is in this game. Also it's 40 energy cost and cast time lol. Genius. Inspired Reinforcement after the nerf is straight up trash. Doesn't last long, stationary in a movement oriented game. Short duration, you name it. FI is trash. Garbage. FB has it as well and better. It was a poorly done condition in the first place. And one of our forced kills pretty much does that. Only good from it is the slow.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:It’s important to remember that A single legend is only about 23% of a Revenant’s toolkit. It isn’t a fair 1 to 1 comparison to say “why isn’t Jalis as good as FB” when Jalis is a total of 5 skills and FB is a total of 33. A more accurate comparison would be “why isn’t Revenant as good as FB (for support).”

Legends don’t exist in a vacuum and so that should be factored into any critiques

The thought did immediately strike me that if you were going for a protective rev, Jalis+Glint means you have good access to protection on Glint, and the 10% damage reduction (which stacks with protection) is also in the mix, although you can't provide both at the same time.

It's also worth remembering that Firebrand has a fairly long cooldown on Tome of Courage - while they have access to decent support outside of ToC, you can't compare what a Firebrand can do with ToC up against what a revenant can do in a reasonably sustainable fashion.

Swap out Dwarf for Ventari. What changed?That's the thing, Dwarf is replaceable here compared to firebrand which is also its own set of 8 skills. Dwarf has 6 skills. Ret as well if you count that as its specializations and Firebrand. Most of the best support on Rev comes from other sources. Defense wise what does it provide really? Not even comparing to other classes here. But Inhouse. ROTGD is not all that. On paper yes but not in action. Pure avoidance is best defense. A short duration damage reduction effect that don't even effect conditions in its stock form is not really all that good. In WvW that damage reduction won't really save you in a zerg due to how stacked offensive DPS is in this game. Also it's 40 energy cost and cast time lol. Genius. Inspired Reinforcement after the nerf is straight up trash. Doesn't last long, stationary in a movement oriented game. Short duration, you name it. FI is trash. Garbage. FB has it as well and better. It was a poorly done condition in the first place. And one of our forced kills pretty much does that. Only good from it is the slow.

Less damage reduction (except against projectiles), less stability, more healing, more alacrity.

I should note that I am not saying that Jalis couldn't use some improvement, just that Jalis is always going to be part of a package, and it's not fair to compare anything to a theoretical firebrand that remains in Tome of Courage permanently.

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Thematically its strong, and kind of fun to use.

Its functionality is kinda meh, a lot like mallyx but not nearly as bad. Both of them need to be refreshed and re-done but

WITH HOW THEY DO REWORKS FOR THIS CLASS I DON'T TRUST THEM TO NOT EITHER MESS IT UP OR GUT IT AND LEAVE IT TO DIE.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

  1. Thematically its strong, and kind of fun to use.
  2. Its functionality is kinda meh, a lot like mallyx but not nearly as bad. Both of them need to be refreshed and re-done but
  3. WITH HOW THEY DO REWORKS FOR THIS CLASS I DON'T TRUST THEM TO NOT EITHER MESS IT UP OR GUT IT AND LEAVE IT TO DIE.

That’s why it’s great lol... imo rev need to be looked further and just do minimal adjust to energy costs, for ex. Mallyx is a bit to expensive, maybe Ventari elite need more punch or other result, shiro healing skill is just a vampiric mod.Herald is somewhat ok since is a suporte damage helper.

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:
  1. Thematically its strong, and kind of fun to use.
  2. Its functionality is kinda meh, a lot like mallyx but not nearly as bad. Both of them need to be refreshed and re-done but
  3. WITH HOW THEY DO REWORKS FOR THIS CLASS I DON'T TRUST THEM TO NOT EITHER MESS IT UP OR GUT IT AND LEAVE IT TO DIE.

That’s why it’s great lol... imo rev need to be looked further and just do minimal adjust to energy costs, for ex. Mallyx is a bit to expensive, maybe Ventari elite need more punch or other result, shiro healing skill is just a vampiric mod.Herald is somewhat ok since is a suporte damage helper.

Its functionality needs to be looked at and the synergies between legends needs to be worked on; An example is if you decide to be a condition healer there should be like grasping vines and thorns. Glint + Shrio should be different and the skills should have more effects, effectively the class itself doesn't feel that strong and alot of it is chalked up to other classes just overshadowing us. Why take a power revenant when warrior, or another class can do its job far better than it can or why take a condition rev when necromancer, guardian or heck messmer can do its job better with even more tools.

We need some tricks, toys and overall enhancements to our kit and even the skill effects at this point seem so limited that we pale in comparison to those around us. Id argue that we just need a neutral legend who can fill in and change based on our desired build type but I don't think that is the problem. Core lacks a ranged condi-option which is kinda lame and does harm condi builds. But the recent rework of mallyx took the enjoyable aspects of his kit and basically just fudged them up, and increased cost on energy. (We either need energy cost or cooldowns one weapon-skills, id argue cooldowns are fine and utility skills for the most part use energy. This way weapon skills are used to build more energy more quickly, and then our utilities are the energy dumps.)

We need a hard look at and they need to decide what legend does what, and give all of them tools to be good "On their own" and then make them synergize with one another more. Maybe two more utility skills for each core legend so we can pick a bit between which ones would work for us, some legends have really odd utility skills and some skills are complete trash. (Shiro's heal is kinda meh, another option could be good. Such as battle scars; Effectively making glints heal not the only one which functions as it does, which could mean shiro might work into more builds. Because on his own he has tools which could make it easier to choose. Just an Idea.)

! 1. Legends need to be thematic, have interesting effects and specific and unique tools based around them. Currently they feel kind of meh; Which is probably why people dislike the energy system as it stands. Its cumbersome and paired with cool-downs and weaker versions of other professions tools it really just doesn't feel worth it, I love rev but it has its problems this is one of them.! 2. Some utility skills just suck; A lot of the time they aren't worth using and even if you could argue they are worth it (to you) the energy cost makes them harder to use properly. On top of that we now have more cool-downs being poured onto us because people are complaining about a class they don't understand, this adds more crap on-top of the already cumbersome nature of the class. Glint I can understand having cool-downs on utility skills but someone like mallyx who already wasn't strong, and had a few tools? Jalis who doesn't really even have a roll? (lets not even address renegade at this point.)! 3. Our elite specs need a hard look at; Glint is fine and preforms fine sure. But kalla? Renegade is a raid spec; or an open world pve spec and it sucks in compeititve play against anyone who has a brain. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE. At least not with how we currently are; Rev should be applicable in all game modes despite what build they are running, since we are a jack of all trades. Either that or legends need to have defined and clear roles, that synergize with one another and above all compliment each other regardless of the combination. (Jalis = tanky, Kalla=Heal/dps support, Ventari =support, Shiro= power dps, Mallyx = condi dps, Glint = tanky/support) This way they all bring a niche and can work together; But they have all the tools required to really do their job. There is a reason you see nothing but glint/shiro in WvW or PvP its because out of all the legends (Maybe outside ventari, because he "Can" work depending on specific variables.) They function the best. Im not saying nerf this combo, im saying bring ALL the others up to their level and their functionality. Rework mallyx, make him strong and make him fun to play because now he is not fun at all and feels horrible. Jalis? I honestly don't recall the last time I used him. Ventari is fine for what he is. Shiro needs to have more to him than he currently does, we use him to close gaps and CC if not to add dps on his jade daggers. Staff 5 + Jade daggers or sword 3 +Jade daggers does good damage but he shouldn't be a lifesteal/dps mod.! 4. Fixing current legends would make it easier to add new ones; We need them all to be fun and something we choose between. Right now a lot of the choice is made for us because a lot of legends lack tools, people don't like gimping themselves for the sake of using a legend they like. A lot of people will move over to use what works, if it doesn't work it doesn't get used. Thats why our WvW and PvP builds haven't really changed much since HoT outside of the traits you removed, destroyed or flat just dinked with. I want to see revenant shine as what it was intended to be, not as whatever the team seems to think it should be because pigeon holing people is not what the class was founded around. A jack of all trades who sure wasn't a master, but preformed best as a hybrid who could deliver and fill whatever role its party needed the most and something that had tons of tools to work around specific situations.! 5. We could use one more weapon/weapon set, ranged condi. We could use another legend (not saying these are required but it would help a bit.) Using hammer as a condi rev in encounters that require range sucks.

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This thread is becoming more about issues with Rev overall, but I understand why.

If I was to stick to the Jalis example - This Legend is a fun concept that does not fulfill any of its roles.

As said above - don't expect a single Legend to work like na entire Spec (even though it is technically a Spec). We always have to look at Revenant as a 50/50 choice.

So, the way it works is always halved since we are able to immediately swap from Support mode to DPS mode (this isn't true, we know that it doesn't work).What I want to see with Revenant is being able to really change its playstyle based on Legend. This is none-existent. So what makes Revenant jack-of-all-trades? Nothing, literally nothing. Dwarf Stance doesn't synergize with the rest of Revenant's kit and Legends. As I said earlier - Hammer doesn't have a single trait related to it.

Perhaps Devs made a class that is too much to handle for them?

  • Weapon-skills
  • Traits
  • Energy
  • Legends
  • Utilities
  • F-skills
  • CDs and spammable skills
  • Synergies between Legends
  • DPS, Tank, Support, Condition + Elites
  • Renegade

I love the concept of this class but I feel it's going to stay this way.ANet either can't find a solution to make these all work or they just prefer to take care of other classes and don't care this much for Revenant since HoT launch.That's it for me.

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@DonArkanio.6419 said:So, the way it works is always halved since we are able to immediately swap from Support mode to DPS mode (this isn't true, we know that it doesn't work).What I want to see with Revenant is being able to really change its playstyle based on Legend. This is none-existent. So what makes Revenant jack-of-all-trades? Nothing, literally nothing. Dwarf Stance doesn't synergize with the rest of Revenant's kit and Legends. As I said earlier - Hammer doesn't have a single trait related to it.

Dwarf actually synergises fairly well with Shiro (including Devastation) and Glint. Problem is that Shiro and Glint usually synergise even better with each other, so Jalis tends to get overshadowed.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:So, the way it works is always halved since we are able to immediately swap from Support mode to DPS mode (
this isn't true, we know that it doesn't work
).What I want to see with Revenant is being able to really change its playstyle based on Legend. This is none-existent. So what makes Revenant jack-of-all-trades?
Nothing
, literally nothing. Dwarf Stance doesn't synergize with the rest of Revenant's kit and Legends. As I said earlier - Hammer doesn't have a single trait related to it.

Dwarf actually synergises fairly well with Shiro (including Devastation) and Glint. Problem is that Shiro and Glint usually synergise even better
with each other,
so Jalis tends to get overshadowed.

Ventari goes well with herald as well(imo it’s what’s has better synergy). U can have ventari f2 afecting 10 players, since u go Ventari Player must be playing strong healing stats, wich will lead to outgoing heal modifiers and herald has a trait to improve rege , shield 4 is a 5k heal that also remove conditions, herald heal passive 1k regen heals to 10 players or 5 players with another heal on 3sec icd arround 1.5k.

To amazing thing is that boon duration isn’t much needed due how rev works on this 2, so u can also focus on other stats.

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Forced engagement is a good interrupt/setup skill for any kind of burst/slow stacking.

However it could use a cooldown treatment to 10 seconds with a higher cost energy of 20% like Banish Enchantments so that it can feel less lack luster for most since it's a single target skill as compared to Call of Anguish which can be much more risky yet rewarding to use, the majority of time you'll find yourself swapping legends and have it available again if needed while Forced Engagement annoyingly enough can still be on cooldown while going back to Dwarf which make the flow clunky, a lot of people wants the cooldown to go, but it needs to stay so we can avoid degenerating spam.

It's current state, the skill deserves to have it's duration increased to 3 seconds, because 2 seconds is insignificant for it's effect or use opportunity if not for the suggested changes above. Using condition duration starts to make the skill useful but the trade off unless using condition damage isn't worth it. Having it up to 3 seconds would increase it's potent effects and justify the energy cost even more.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:So, the way it works is always halved since we are able to immediately swap from Support mode to DPS mode (
this isn't true, we know that it doesn't work
).What I want to see with Revenant is being able to really change its playstyle based on Legend. This is none-existent. So what makes Revenant jack-of-all-trades?
Nothing
, literally nothing. Dwarf Stance doesn't synergize with the rest of Revenant's kit and Legends. As I said earlier - Hammer doesn't have a single trait related to it.

Dwarf actually synergises fairly well with Shiro (including Devastation) and Glint. Problem is that Shiro and Glint usually synergise even better
with each other,
so Jalis tends to get overshadowed.

Glint and Shiro have the easiest playstyle that obeys PvP basic mentality but they are not the best synergy. A lot of Glint is wasted when using Shiro compared the other legends, Mallyx being the one benefiting best. People use Glint for the heal, after that the rest is just use said skill because they are stuck with those options that don't really benefit them outside of being an option they have.

Infuse Light allows to heal more safely with Mallyx and stack potent counter pressure.You could argue that Gaze Of Darkness is relevant to Shiro pressuring targets that tries to kite, that applies to all Legends.Elemental Blast has much more utility out of Mallyx.Burst of Strength does favor a Shiro minded player, but it can also be used in Synergy with Sigil of Intelligence + Axe 4 (Also unblockable) before Legend Swapping as well as just plain old Unrelenting Assault buff.Chaotic Release is a CC, it's useful to all legends.

This doesn't mention how Mallyx users can also allow themselves to keep Facets up to prolong their effects (Especially Facet Of Chaos) without hindering their performance as much.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:This thread is becoming more about issues with Rev overall, but I understand why.

Or that the majority of people expect too much from Rev, there's a lot of potential in all of the legends for each synergy. There is obviously some that favors others but it's not impossible to make the compromise and modification to achieve something one other profession can't.

Revenant is by far the most versatile with the biggest L2P issues in the game. I just can't agree that you think Dwarf is absolutely pointless while in the right hands it can pretty much handle any situations right given the proper stats and opportunities used. Core Revenant in general is a plain beast with constant stunbreaks, you have to remember the concept and why they won't make it so similar to the expectations you would have from others with so much utility alone.

If there was anything to be nerf, it would be Shiro Riposting Shadows to 20 endurance in PvP/WvW, then Magebane Tether would have to suffer the same with 1 Might in PvP/WvW. This would make mistakes much more meaningful.

While anything to buff would be to give Purifying Essence from Ventari a stunbreak so that when you are in Legend, people don't just decide to spam CC until you're dead.

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There's a certain element of truth in that Glint synergises with everything (well, not Kalla, obviously, but they would synergise if they could).

I think it is reasonable to say that Glint synergises best with power or support builds, though. Core revenant only has one really condition-oriented weaponset (although this is more of an issue with core revenant than Glint, it's just that herald doesn't change this), and apart from the burn on Elemental Blast (which is comparable to the power damage of that skill anyway, so Elemental Blast is more hybrid than condition oriented unless you add Abyssal Chill) the consume skills are all power-oriented.

Jalis and Shiro both fit into this category. Previously, the commonly accepted wisdom was that you went Shiro/Glint in PvP situations - where you need Shiro's toolset for mobility and to counter the abilities of other players - while in PvE situations, you could switch to Jalis, activate the hammers, and do well from there. The meta power DPS raid build for revenant used this principle for a while. In short, Shiro was what you used when you needed to react to what other players were doing, Jalis was what you used when it was about stacking on a target, surviving, and maybe tossing the odd CC.

The rework to Facet of Nature, however, turned that around, since Shiro's Facet of Nature adds to DPS and sustain, while Jalis's only adds to sustain. As a result, the combination of Shiro's Facet of Nature and Impossible Odds means that Shiro now deals out more damage even to stationary, unreactive targets than Jalis does with the hammers. Ergo, Jalis gets pushed out of the PvE power DPS role in favour of Shiro.

I think a few people have experimented with Jalis/Shiro core revenant, but the general consensus seems to still be that Shiro/Glint works better.

Jalis still has its place - a Jalis/Glint rev probably still has more sustain than a Shiro/Glint rev, for instance, and doesn't have the problem of Shiro/Glint where both heals are conditional of remaining in the fight - but he is definitely looking a bit like the poor cousin, especially since Retribution isn't a particularly attractive traitline at the moment.

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I have a question, is RotGD stackable with Protection boon ?For example it will be kinda unrealisticI'll go Jalis+Glint (Glint+Invo+Retribution)'


Hardening Persistance (while Hammers and F2 active) = -6 upkeep = 6x1,5= 9% dmg reductionClose Quarters = while enemy above 360 distance we get = 10% dmg reductionDetermined Resolution = 15% dmg reductionVengeful Hammers = 20% dmg reductionFacet of Nature-Dwarf = 10% dmg reductionProtection = 33% dmg reductionRotGD = 50% dmg reduction


9+10+15+20+10+33+50= 147% dmg reduction from range bigger then 360. But we all know it doesnt work like that.We have lot of dmg reducing traits that doesnt work together.


Can anyone explain me which ones are stackable and which ones are not?

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@draxynnic.3719 said:I think a few people have experimented with Jalis/Shiro core revenant, but the general consensus seems to still be that Shiro/Glint works better.

I have, I prefer Jalis/Shiro over Glint/Shiro and it has shown more potential, not just as a duelist but also holding node. If it's not for the Reveal, the heal is again, all that people care about since the majority of players easily reset a revenant to 100%.

Steadfast Rejuvenation is just too good when played right, that involves kitting like a warrior and with having so much more energy meaning more evades with weakness meaning more sustain. It's like instead of putting all of your bets on one skill (Infuse Light), you have more options to work with. Being that since you're not using an elite, you can also stack pretty powerful mix ups with Swift Termination + Sigil of Intelligence.

Vengeful Hammers are also overlooked a lot, that 20% condition damage reduction goes a long way with the healing. Then there's Renegade with Jalis/Shiro that can stack up to 55% condition damage reduction + the passive healing.

Also I did put up gameplay of Mallyx/Glint again, you can check it out on my recent posts on the forums.

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