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Option of making players being able to attack/get attacked in the open world


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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:But this game offers such a great combat system. I can understand wanting to use the combat system at any chance possible.Then why on earth would you advocate to change the PvE system? If you want better PvP, ask for that.

! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > Because the PvP options we had were gutted.! Have they been? What's fundamentally changed for sPvP? It's always had people quitting, it's always had people taking advantages of ANet's lack of speed in dealing with rules violations, it's always had balance issues.!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > I understand that PvE players dont want PvP in thier maps, I just wish PvE players gave the same respect to other game modes but instead we ended up with things like Warclaw.! There is zero evidence that ANet cares one whit what PvE-centric players think should happen in WvW.!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > So I think people are pushing for a sense of fairness or are looking for ither ways to enjoy this beautifuland intricate combat system that GW2 has to offer.! >! Fundamentally changing PvE is not going to make things "fair." If there are issues with PvP, the only way to address them is in PvP.!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > It was asked for by a known PvP player that trolls... then the idea caught momentum by players saying its unfair they get ganked on thier way back to zergs.! That's the oddest theory I've seen floated this month and it's been a banner month for hypotheses without any connection to evidence.!! Studios simply do not spend tons of resources simply because some minority complains vocally about anything. This is especially true for ANet, who has established a pattern of taking in all sorts of feedback... and then planning and implementing only those ideas that align with their vision of the game.!! As a reminder, people complained about getting ganked on their way back to zergs in 2012; it wasn't something that started after the announcement of PoF (and mounts).!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > So PoF owners were given 10k extra health, immunity to CC, faster mobility, 3 extra dodges and an enemy tracker to help avoid combat.! Anyone who wanted to avoid combat could already do so.!!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > Now I'm lucky to see more than 5 people on an enemy server, most of which mount off into the distance or emote me to death while all the toys and kites come out.! Those are consequences of the way the Warclaw's current mechanics, in which case, the solution is to advocate for changes to that implementation (some of which were made, some of which are pending).!! Regardless, at best, that's evidence that there actually aren't as many WvWarriors as you thought who care to engage in small group combat.!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > I do WvW now when I need down time from dying in PvP or PvE... Because you can actually die in those modes.! And? How does that make it good for
Guild Wars 2
to introduce PvP to PvE zones?!! > @sephiroth.4217 said:! > So to stay on topic... the PvP scene has bled out.! That's not the topic.

Im sorry but I never advocated for that.As I said to someone before... I just said I can understand why... You’re making up the rest on your own.

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@"sephiroth.4217" said:I just said I can understand why...You said a lot more than "I can understand why." You made a number of claims that aren't backed up with any evidence and created a theory based on them. I responded to those claims and your response is that other people are making things up.

For example, the OP has not said, "well ANet gutted the sort of PvP I like, so I think it's only fair to gut the sort of PvE that I don't like. Instead, and as stated in the actual Original Post, the request was made because the OP believes...

This option will give more liveliness to the game...

The OP also is not a PvPer

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:I just said I can understand why...You said a lot more than "I can understand why." You made a number of claims that aren't backed up with any evidence and created a theory based on them. I responded to those claims and your response is that other people are making things up.

For example, the OP has not said, "well ANet gutted the sort of PvP I like, so I think it's only fair to gut the sort of PvE that I don't like. Instead, and as stated in the actual Original Post, the request was made because the OP believes...

This option will give more liveliness to the game...

The OP also is
not
a PvPer

They weren't claims. They were my personal opinions for starters in regards to "why all the threads lately". As for the rest of your arguements Im not going to bother responding because then you'll argue that one and then next one.

do you see what I mean?Its like you're looking for an arguement where there is none and being to the point about this, you're not usually one to do this sort of edgy stuff. I dont know if you were preheated from some one else before reading and responding but trust me man, youve read this situation wrong.

Usually you're good with your english and dont overlook the key words, I feel like you missed those key words this time.

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@"sephiroth.4217" said:If your goal is to explain why there are so many PvP-in-PvE threads, you could have just said, "because there are still people hoping to see more opportunities for PvP." Preferences don't need to be justified.

Its like you're looking for an arguement where there is noneAs I said, you wrote a lot more than, "I can understand why." You seem to confuse my challenging the claims you made in the "a lot more" with "looking for an argument."

If someone prefers the real world sky to be green, I see no problem with them asking for it, as often as they like.

If they suggest that we should dye the oceans to make the sky green, then I'm going to point out that the color of the sky comes from light scattered by particles in the air, that coloring the ocean wouldn't help (not to mention it's dangerous and expensive). And I might suggest that they look into contact lenses to change what they see, rather than try to get the rest of the world to have the same preference.

The OP, to their credit, primarily has stuck to their original suggestion on the basis that it would liven things up. The OP isn't trying to justify the idea because of hating the Warclaw or any theories regarding its introduction.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....Aaaand we're back to "we need to force people to my preferred playstyle until they like it".

I can hold my own when being ganked on pretty much any character I step into WvW with, but I still don't enjoy it any more than I did when I first stepped into the mode almost seven years ago. Being forced to duell people built specifically with cheesy ganker builds just isn't my thing. And before you ask, I'm not into zerg karma training either, but much prefer smallscale gameplay, just not with the objective to gank unprepared players.

If you can't unmount people with a specialized ganking build that's on you, but the excuse of "warclaw killed wvw roaming" is a lame one, since it's simply not true. Try adapting instead of forcing people to play your way, and you might just find that it's much easier to bond with a team and actually have fun.

We'll leave it here as you're not understanding.Try me.
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@Rasimir.6239 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....Aaaand we're back to "we need to force people to my preferred playstyle until they like it".

I can hold my own when being ganked on pretty much any character I step into WvW with, but I still don't enjoy it any more than I did when I first stepped into the mode almost seven years ago. Being forced to duell people built specifically with cheesy ganker builds just isn't my thing. And before you ask, I'm not into zerg karma training either, but much prefer smallscale gameplay, just not with the objective to gank unprepared players.

If you can't unmount people with a specialized ganking build that's on you, but the excuse of "warclaw killed wvw roaming" is a lame one, since it's simply not true. Try adapting instead of forcing people to play your way, and you might just find that it's much easier to bond with a team and actually have fun.

We'll leave it here as you're not understanding.Try me.

Already did.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:If your goal is to explain why there are so many PvP-in-PvE threads, you could have just said, "because there are still people hoping to see more opportunities for PvP." Preferences don't need to be justified.

Its like you're looking for an arguement where there is noneAs I said, you wrote a lot more than, "I can understand why." You seem to confuse my challenging the claims you made in the "a lot more" with "looking for an argument."

If someone prefers the real world sky to be green, I see no problem with them asking for it, as often as they like.

If they suggest that we should dye the oceans to make the sky green, then I'm going to point out that the color of the sky comes from light scattered by particles in the air, that coloring the ocean wouldn't help (not to mention it's dangerous and expensive). And I might suggest that they look into contact lenses to change what they see, rather than try to get the rest of the world to have the same preference.

The OP, to their credit, primarily has stuck to their original suggestion on the basis that it would liven things up. The OP isn't trying to justify the idea because of hating the Warclaw or any theories regarding its introduction.

And thats your opinion. I wont sit here and argue it like youre doing to me. If you felt like I should have said this or should have said that, they are your personal opinions just as mine was "I can understand"... you gave reasoning to your opinion just as I gave to mine but I wont argue every word or look for a loop to start an arguement to catch you out.

Oh and I love Warclaw by the way... using 5 people to herd a mounted player makes me feel like an old western cowboy herding cattle... just an example of why youre way off.

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@"sephiroth.4217" said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....

The "Im not a 1v1 build" is just an excuse to me... I do fine when ganked on my Staff Tempest, Necro or FB (zerg classes).

seriously? you are arguing that gankers are good for the mode, while gankers are a very big reason why people avoid it altogether?

Maybe you should sit back and think about what you are writing for a moment? Gankers do not 'sustain' the mode. Gankers are killing it.

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Forget it. There can be nothing good that comes from injecting PVP into an area of the game where it's not wanted, even if it's a fraction of the people. There are just some things that we already know and they are only more relevant as this game gets older and it's core group of players solidifies in the market.

Maybe at most, an area specifically designed for PVP, but then again, what's the point of having that area in PVE area? It's just not a value add.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....

The "Im not a 1v1 build" is just an excuse to me... I do fine when ganked on my Staff Tempest, Necro or FB (zerg classes).

seriously? you are arguing that gankers are good for the mode, while gankers are a very big reason why people avoid it altogether?

Maybe you should sit back and think about what you are writing for a moment? Gankers do not 'sustain' the mode. Gankers are killing it.

ganking is an action like walking that every player partakes in when they enter WvW and PvP.its not a playstyle or a sub group of players, its an action. Its basically the ground basis for those 2 modes, to "gank" and kill each other.so no, I dont think that killing people in open world pvp is killing the game mode... Because thats what youre meant to do..

I think the ones who force more pve and less player engagements are. The ones who wanted and recieved indemnity from PvP when signing up to open world PvP.. The inexperienced ones who belittle and put down players for killing people in an open world pvp. the ones who go around labelling players as "gankers" forgetting that is exactly the action that is supposed to take place continuously while in WvW by all players including themselves.like, cmon, basic English applies here with Verbs and Nouns.but that wasnt the point of my post and you know it, but I still answered your question about "gankers" anyway.

personally... I would love PvE to have some player engagements available.. But I would like it in the Black Citadel arena or something alike. a place where I could eat and watch a show at the same time. (and knowing myself, would organise a betting ring out of it too)

Ganking refers to killing a player while outnumbering the player. It came from "gang killing." There are some instances in which the term is used to refer to killing players who are drastically under-powered (in level and gear). Ganking is very much a play-style.

Sure, "ganking" can and does occur in WvW/sPvP. It is something that every player who enters those modes can engage in. It is not something every player who enters those modes engages in by default.

I'm with you that players who complain about being killed in a PvP mode are out of line. I would rather they abstain from going to such a game mode and leave it to those who want to use the mode as it is intended. However, I prefer that we not try to make a term that means one thing mean something else.

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....

The "Im not a 1v1 build" is just an excuse to me... I do fine when ganked on my Staff Tempest, Necro or FB (zerg classes).

seriously? you are arguing that gankers are good for the mode, while gankers are a very big reason why people avoid it altogether?

Maybe you should sit back and think about what you are writing for a moment? Gankers do not 'sustain' the mode. Gankers are killing it.

ganking is an action like walking that every player partakes in when they enter WvW and PvP.its not a playstyle or a sub group of players, its an action. Its basically the ground basis for those 2 modes, to "gank" and kill each other.so no, I dont think that killing people in open world pvp is killing the game mode... Because thats what youre meant to do..

I think the ones who force more pve and less player engagements are. The ones who wanted and recieved indemnity from PvP when signing up to open world PvP.. The inexperienced ones who belittle and put down players for killing people in an open world pvp. the ones who go around labelling players as "gankers" forgetting that is exactly the action that is supposed to take place continuously while in WvW by all players including themselves.like, cmon, basic English applies here with Verbs and Nouns.but that wasnt the point of my post and you know it, but I still answered your question about "gankers" anyway.

personally... I would love PvE to have some player engagements available.. But I would like it in the Black Citadel arena or something alike. a place where I could eat and watch a show at the same time. (and knowing myself, would organise a betting ring out of it too)

Ganking refers to killing a player while outnumbering the player. It came from "gang killing." There are some instances in which the term is used to refer to killing players who are drastically under-powered (in level and gear). Ganking is very much a play-style.

Sure, "ganking" can and does occur in WvW/sPvP. It is something that every player who enters those modes
can
engage in. It is not something every player who enters those modes engages in by default.

I'm with you that players who complain about being killed in a PvP mode are out of line. I would rather they abstain from going to such a game mode and leave it to those who want to use the mode as it is intended. However, I prefer that we not try to make a term that means one thing mean something else.

I can understand that point of view... Having a zerg gank you at a sentry can be quite frustrating. I wouldn't label them as such but that's me.

yesterday was a prime example for me... I "Ganked" a fellow Reaper on route from Pang to OW... once he was down and I got the stomp, 2 Soulbeasts jumped out of the tower and "ganked" me with a double Rapid Fire.... it happens. I was ganked fair and square. it was the action or verb that took place that resulted in my respawn.... (then I went back to get revenge and was ganked again by a thief but eh, it happens, completely my fault for dismounting and trying a reaper vs DE battle.)

So I do understand that point of view as I was "ganked" repeatedly yesterday in situations that were both fair and extremely unfair. I'm actually quite often ganked near the Veloka sentry by masses of people or zergs gliding in from Red Keep.

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@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Gopaka.7839" said:PvE players on the other hand will get used to seeing players getting killed by other playersWhat makes you think that people want to get used to that? Personally I play this game precisely because I don't have to watch people bash in each others' heads if I don't want to.

I do my fair share of WvW roaming if I feel like it, spending roughly half my gametime on the borderlands these days. I don't want the competition, the aggressiveness, the general stressful athmosphere that any kind of pvp breeds when I'm in PvE. And yes, I do avoid farm maps as well as new living story maps, too, to find peaceful, relaxed PvE maps when I feel like it. I don't want to get used to the stress and aggression pvp breeds, I just want that to stay in its place, and leave the relaxed, peaceful PvE as is.

That is something PvPers will never understand. I have seen this debate since the early days of Ultima Online. Open world PvP nearly killed that game, it never fully recovered because Everquest came out and took UOs dissatisfied customers.

WvW already has PvP & PvM. No need to ruin the main maps, just to try and get players to magically decide they like PvP. It does not work that way.

This is just the same ages old cry "we need to force people to my preferred playstyle until they like it".

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Ganking evolved from the term to 'gang up on'. Ie large group attacking small group. Later in games with out of control power curves it was sometimes used to represent high level players ganking low players.

This is only really a design issue where a zone is primarily designed with pve but with no option to opt out of pvp.

So ganking is not desirable, but its not the gankers fault, they are doing what is natural in a pvp enabled zone. Dedicated pvp zones that have pve can be a lot of fun, as can pve zones with opt out/in. A good game offers all types of zone.

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This is the first time I see this issue being proposed with a philosophical layer to it: progress, history, moving forward the same way we've been doing since we left the caves...I'll give you credit for adding something new to an old, repeated, uncreative, wishful, rebuked suggestion - but frankly, it's a video-game design by a company. It's both hilarious and clueless to throw philosophy in the mix.

As for the suggestion itself, it's already implemented. They call it Lineage 2, for example.

This is not that game.

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@"Gopaka.7839" said:Open world wont kill gw2. PvP/WvW players will have something to do in the open world and thus learn more about PvE on the way. PvE players on the other hand will get used to seeing players getting killed by other players and maybe learn more about the PvP/WvW community a little bit more while communicating with some WvW/PvP players. And thus go do some PvP and WvW. What my idea is basically bringing all the community together around all the contents that this game is providing, not splitting them apart. I know WvW players playing the game doing only WvW, not knowing what a guild hall is even. I know PvE players who havent played WvW a single time. I know PvP player that does only tournaments. Why all of you think splitted community is a good community ? WvW struggle for fresh blood ? How do you suggest they do that ? Go out in LA spreading the good word and putting posters on the bank and trading post ?

Because the main obstacle is how hard it is to learn about the other game modes? It's 2 clicks away.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....

The "Im not a 1v1 build" is just an excuse to me... I do fine when ganked on my Staff Tempest, Necro or FB (zerg classes).

seriously? you are arguing that gankers are good for the mode, while gankers are a very big reason why people avoid it altogether?

Maybe you should sit back and think about what you are writing for a moment? Gankers do not 'sustain' the mode. Gankers are killing it.

I disagree. There are plenty of gank/roam/havoc groups on every server willing to have some action all the time. Even on servers that can hardly get together a good blob even in prime time usually have roaming groups all the time.Besides roaming/havoc are integral part of WvW. Flipping smaller objectives, preventing reinforcements, defending, scouting... all of these are important for WvW, it is part of strategy. It really sucks when there are not enough scouts or roaming groups that can handle these skirmishes and a blob has to go defend a keep even though a small group could handle it.If WvW would be all blob play it would just get more boring. Blobs are fun from team coordination point of view, that is where the skill is in blob play. Personal, mechanical skill, not so much. For some quite boring.I don't really understand "pvpers" that are afraid of pvp. If you have problems with a ganker that is cutting your reinforcements (which is a sound strategy just like tagging respawns) you should send a gank squad to take care of it.

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@Cuks.8241 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....

The "Im not a 1v1 build" is just an excuse to me... I do fine when ganked on my Staff Tempest, Necro or FB (zerg classes).

seriously? you are arguing that gankers are good for the mode, while gankers are a very big reason why people avoid it altogether?

Maybe you should sit back and think about what you are writing for a moment? Gankers do not 'sustain' the mode. Gankers are killing it.

I disagree. There are plenty of gank/roam/havoc groups on every server willing to have some action all the time. Even on servers that can hardly get together a good blob even in prime time usually have roaming groups all the time.Besides roaming/havoc are integral part of WvW. Flipping smaller objectives, preventing reinforcements, defending, scouting... all of these are important for WvW, it is part of strategy. It really sucks when there are not enough scouts or roaming groups that can handle these skirmishes and a blob has to go defend a keep even though a small group could handle it.If WvW would be all blob play it would just get more boring. Blobs are fun from team coordination point of view, that is where the skill is in blob play. Personal, mechanical skill, not so much. For some quite boring.I don't really understand "pvpers" that are afraid of pvp. If you have problems with a ganker that is cutting your reinforcements (which is a sound strategy just like tagging respawns) you should send a gank squad to take care of it.

This is fine for WvW and is exactly why PvP does not belong in the open world play. GW is a coop game, and open world PvP would take away from the coop play. It would end up like WoW... everyone uninterested in PvP would toggle to ignore duel requests. So really a useless addon.

People trying to entice others into PvP just makes it sound like PvP cannot stand on its own. If it is popular - people will be there. If it is not popular - they will be elsewhere. Really quite simple. :)

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@Tukaram.8256 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:WvW says its open world PvP but open world PvP should have dangers, even more so when alone to encourage people to group up in safety from the people who sustain the mode for years (the ones ganking you).. Teamwork like that helps players bond and learn until eventually they are that "ganker"/roamer, which means you would have played long enough to help sustain the mode....

The "Im not a 1v1 build" is just an excuse to me... I do fine when ganked on my Staff Tempest, Necro or FB (zerg classes).

seriously? you are arguing that gankers are good for the mode, while gankers are a very big reason why people avoid it altogether?

Maybe you should sit back and think about what you are writing for a moment? Gankers do not 'sustain' the mode. Gankers are killing it.

I disagree. There are plenty of gank/roam/havoc groups on every server willing to have some action all the time. Even on servers that can hardly get together a good blob even in prime time usually have roaming groups all the time.Besides roaming/havoc are integral part of WvW. Flipping smaller objectives, preventing reinforcements, defending, scouting... all of these are important for WvW, it is part of strategy. It really sucks when there are not enough scouts or roaming groups that can handle these skirmishes and a blob has to go defend a keep even though a small group could handle it.If WvW would be all blob play it would just get more boring. Blobs are fun from team coordination point of view, that is where the skill is in blob play. Personal, mechanical skill, not so much. For some quite boring.I don't really understand "pvpers" that are afraid of pvp. If you have problems with a ganker that is cutting your reinforcements (which is a sound strategy just like tagging respawns) you should send a gank squad to take care of it.

This is fine for WvW and is exactly why PvP does not belong in the open world play. GW is a coop game, and open world PvP would take away from the coop play. It would end up like WoW... everyone uninterested in PvP would toggle to ignore duel requests. So really a useless addon.

People trying to entice others into PvP just makes it sound like PvP cannot stand on its own. If it is popular - people will be there. If it is not popular - they will be elsewhere. Really quite simple. :)

it was very popular until recently... theres no real difference between WvW and PvE anymore which backtracks to my previous comment towards another user about the influx of these threads lately... I can understand why, They were meshed together and I can understand the want to have it seperated or completely meshed together properly across both game modes.

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