Suggestion for higher lw replayability (reddit)

[zealex.9410]

Considering The flavour of the month in these forums has been repetition im sure this was already suggested but i didnt really find anything so ill post this here for extra discussion regardless.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/ctjrsp/simplest_fix_of_hardcore_vs_casuals_same_content/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

(the wall of text if you dont want to click, but i suggest you click, theres some nice discussion and comparisons with other mmos)

Quadruple all future content. Meaning that this one big, amazing story-instanced based bossfight will stay as it is, then it'll get a five-man version of it, and that five-man version will get a repeatable challenge mote. And the entire thing gets a leaderboard slapped on it. That's going to be an all-around treatment. Raids will get an easier and a harder difficulty plus leaderboards, Fractals also get leaderboards, and yes, also a CM-level difficulty. Which is weird, since Fractals technically are already difficulty-based. But let's face it, T4 isn't "very hard" and T1 "very easy". So while they don't get a fifth tier, they get their repeatable CMs as a challenge for hardcores.

It's important, that rewards will scale. Meaning highest difficulty drops more currency, lower difficulties drop less currency, but all difficulties drop the same currency, meaning everything will be achieveable for everyone. It's just going to take longer and be more of a grueling grind if you suck at the game, versus being good at the game. Yes, casuals will not be excluded and treated like scum, and hardcores will be entertained with additional and challenging content! Le gasp! We can co-exist! Fuck everyone who doesn't agree.

That, of course, will require more work per content. But it's recyclable content! Instead of creating one piece of content for one part of the community and then creating another piece of content for another part of content, boring one group and alienating the other, all content will be more or less viable for every part of the playerbase, turning every release into a release for everyone, upping the de-facto release cadence for everyone. Suddenly even the single father can enjoy raids and the hardcore raider can enjoy Living World updates. And all by only fiddling with numbers and, who knows, maybe one or two additional mechanics per encounter, instead of having to create entirely new encounters for whatever part of the playerbase they're trying to cater to with.

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

[Randulf.7614]

I’m not against it by any means, but it doesn’t really solve the segregation. I’m not really sure ppl would farm the more difficult versions just for more currency either. I’d rather see rewards like titles and minis though added into the mix for harder content

The concept of making challenge versions of story instances or certain appropriate boss fights is not something I have an issue with though.

The leaderboards are pointless though. They don’t work well in pve and they really don’t work in gw2

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

It's been brought up many times on these forums.Though, how does one earn less 'Title' or 'Mini-pet' or 'Armor piece' or whatever isn't currency?

[maddoctor.2738]

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

[Raknar.4735]

I'll just add my opinion on some things. I mostly agree with the reddit comment, since more content is most of the time better than less content, regardless of gamemode.

Meaning that this one big, amazing story-instanced based bossfight will stay as it is, then it'll get a five-man version of it, and that five-man version will get a repeatable challenge mote.

Only making the 5man version of the story instance repeatable is a mistake. The solo version has to be repeatable too. Casuals shy away from coordinated content in my experience, they don't want to bother / weigh down others or don't have enough time for the group finding. They want to log in and play the content, not log in and wait to play the content.

It's important, that rewards will scale. Meaning highest difficulty drops more currency, lower difficulties drop less currency, but all difficulties drop the same currency, meaning everything will be achieveable for everyone.

This is a very important point. The exclusivity of items should only be time based. Good players will earn the unique rewards faster, players that play for a long time should still get the same unique rewards after some time. If they see the reward is completely out of reach for them, many players will just not bother with the content, creating a niche that will die out given enough time.(Better players will earn the currency to get the unique rewards faster -> exclusivity based on time)

[kharmin.7683]

@Raknar.4735 said:

This is a very important point. The exclusivity of items should only be time based. Good players will earn the unique rewards faster, players that play for a long time should still get the same unique rewards after some time. If they see the reward is completely out of reach for them, many players will just not bother with the content, creating a niche that will die out given enough time.See: Skyscale

[zealex.9410]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

I think you are underselling the idea, theres a plethora of ff14 familiar players here which can attest to the value of such a system and the replayability it brings to content. I mean specifically reusing lw bosses and instances as 5 man content for repeatable rewards.

[zealex.9410]

@Raknar.4735 said:I'll just add my opinion on some things. I mostly agree with the reddit comment, since more content is most of the time better than less content, regardless of gamemode.

Meaning that this one big, amazing story-instanced based bossfight will stay as it is, then it'll get a five-man version of it, and that five-man version will get a repeatable challenge mote.

Only making the 5man version of the story instance repeatable is a mistake. The solo version has to be repeatable too. Casuals shy away from coordinated content in my experience, they don't want to bother / weigh down others or don't have enough time for the group finding. They want to log in and play the content, not log in and wait to play the content.

Define coordinated tho, i wouldnt consider easy content coordinated even it for most ppl it requires a party.

It's important, that rewards will scale. Meaning highest difficulty drops more currency, lower difficulties drop less currency, but all difficulties drop the same currency, meaning everything will be achieveable for everyone.

True to i believe something like titles and such could be use as rewards for higher dificulties, exclusivity breeds desire and makes ppl try thing they might otherwise not have liked.

This is a very important point. The exclusivity of items should only be time based. Good players will earn the unique rewards faster, players that play for a long time should still get the same unique rewards after some time. If they see the reward is completely out of reach for them, many players will just not bother with the content, creating a niche that will die out given enough time.

Only if the meaningful reward is the exclusive one(ala raids with the legendary gear), vanity stuff like titles and such ciuld work fine if the bulk of rewards are reachable by everyone.

[zealex.9410]

@Randulf.7614 said:I’m not against it by any means, but it doesn’t really solve the segregation. I’m not really sure ppl would farm the more difficult versions just for more currency either. I’d rather see rewards like titles and minis though added into the mix for harder content

The concept of making challenge versions of story instances or certain appropriate boss fights is not something I have an issue with though.

The leaderboards are pointless though. They don’t work well in pve and they really don’t work in gw2

On the leaderboard subject theres always been competitive speed clearing scenes in pve games and the gw franchise is not an exception. In gw2 i believe it died out heavily with the changes to fractals but that doesnt mean it couldnt be done.

[maddoctor.2738]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

I think you are underselling the idea, theres a plethora of ff14 familiar players here which can attest to the value of such a system and the replayability it brings to content. I mean specifically reusing lw bosses and instances as 5 man content for repeatable rewards.

Do you remember Migraine and Arah Story mode?

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

I think you are underselling the idea, theres a plethora of ff14 familiar players here which can attest to the value of such a system and the replayability it brings to content. I mean specifically reusing lw bosses and instances as 5 man content for repeatable rewards.

Do you remember Migraine and Arah Story mode?

Were those worth repeating? Or rather did they have anything that made them worth repeating?

[Azraeil.7013]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

I think you are underselling the idea, theres a plethora of ff14 familiar players here which can attest to the value of such a system and the replayability it brings to content. I mean specifically reusing lw bosses and instances as 5 man content for repeatable rewards.

Do you remember Migraine and Arah Story mode?

I remember them, the entire storyline you can finish solo until you reach that level.In the core you needed a group in order to finish Arah story and your storyline. Not to mention even if you are lucky to find a group, there were tones of bugs and dc.

Even normal storyline Mind and Hearts was hard at the beginning because of the bugs, it good that they solve it. Migraine I only did it once and never again.

I don't know if people remember but in season 2 you had hard mode for some achievement, you needed to finish those achievement to get your ascendant which in return belong to one achievement to receive armor skin.We should have something like this again, all that finish the story line receive the normal skin but the ones that finish the hard mode together with some achievement they will receive the epic skin.Same armour, different skin depending on the mode that you finish your dungeon, fractal, raid etc.They can put mode of challenge which gives more rewards for people that do it, this way they don't change to much from the system.

[maddoctor.2738]

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

I think you are underselling the idea, theres a plethora of ff14 familiar players here which can attest to the value of such a system and the replayability it brings to content. I mean specifically reusing lw bosses and instances as 5 man content for repeatable rewards.

Do you remember Migraine and Arah Story mode?

Were those worth repeating? Or rather did they have anything that made them worth repeating?

They were 5-man content. Arah Story was the final chapter of the game and Migraine was a 5-man version of the last HoT fight. The idea of 5-man story content isn't new. As for what is worth repeating, is there anything in the game that is "worth repeating"? Take a look at fractals and notice that many of the fractals are neglected, while the easier, faster ones are farmed. Notice how the same happened with dungeons and is obviously the case with Raids. This community/playerbase has been drilled hard to go with the path of least resistance so unless they create new unique/exclusive rewards for all those "story dungeons", they will meet the same fate as the rest of the game.

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

Boom, bliss and joy for everyone except for the saltiest of kittens.

Not the best way to make an argument. That's like saying "anyone that doesn't like the low effort suggestion is a salty kitten"As for the rest of it, I'll pass, there is hardly anything new or anything worth discussing there. And it does nothing for lw replayability as is the claim of the OP.

I think you are underselling the idea, theres a plethora of ff14 familiar players here which can attest to the value of such a system and the replayability it brings to content. I mean specifically reusing lw bosses and instances as 5 man content for repeatable rewards.

Do you remember Migraine and Arah Story mode?

Were those worth repeating? Or rather did they have anything that made them worth repeating?

They were 5-man content. Arah Story was the final chapter of the game and Migraine was a 5-man version of the last HoT fight. The idea of 5-man story content isn't new. As for what is worth repeating, is there anything in the game that is "worth repeating"? Take a look at fractals and notice that many of the fractals are neglected, while the easier, faster ones are farmed. Notice how the same happened with dungeons and is obviously the case with Raids. This community/playerbase has been drilled hard to go with the path of least resistance so unless they create new unique/exclusive rewards for all those "story dungeons", they will meet the same fate as the rest of the game.

If i was still playing daily i would be clearong my fractals every day, so i can say, yes fractals are repeatable content.