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Getting tired of lag in WvW, unplayable


Draco.9480

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Built in jan..Asus prime z390-ai5-9600k16gigs

This type of wide spread lag started like a month ago, just seems to get worse every week. Yesterday dc'd a couple times, during reset a portion of nsp and yb were kicked after a keep fight in ebg. Some zerg fights no matter where now gets laggy, before it use to just be in smc.

I mean you can try and blame peoples machines but there's a lot of people experiencing it now on both sides of the ocean.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:Built in jan..Asus prime z390-ai5-9600k16gigs

This type of wide spread lag started like a month ago, just seems to get worse every week. Yesterday dc'd a couple times, during reset a portion of nsp and yb were kicked after a keep fight in ebg. Some zerg fights no matter where now gets laggy, before it use to just be in smc.

I mean you can try and blame peoples machines but there's a lot of people experiencing it now on both sides of the ocean.

Weird... Unless im just used to the pathetic performance from eso and the average ms of 500+. So gw2 feels lile a godsend.. Cant say i get major lag at all

I51060gtx 6 gb16gb ram500 gb ssd

So nothing special machine wise

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@Draco.9480 said:I click on some fast cast aoe few times and nothing happens for like 10 seconds then i get killed for not activating my heals/barriers in time cuz it has a delay.long story short: UNPLAYABLE.do something about it.

Skill lags are the server. And there is an easy fix: reduce player capacity per map, should be an easy thing now that no one has enough people to fill all maps anyway.Would even help to distribute them better.

But to often player confuse skill-lags with internet-lags. And there ANet cannot do anything, just you can change things: get a better inet provider.

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Most likely it's your internet isn't fast enough or PC isn't powerful enough for Gw2. People in my guild complain about lag. While It is working great for me. So again, It's probably something in between you and Anet. And not Anet. This might not be a popular post . But most likely the case. IMHO. If your internet is less than 100 mb Down and 30+ up. It's probably one of the reasons. Also, I played on a regular 1TB hard drive. With Lag. After going to a SSD. No Lag! Everything else the same. Game was smooth in Wvw with 2 full zergs going at it. But it's easier and cheaper to blame Anet :) Like I said... ....Not popular. But probably true!

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@Vieux P.1238 said:Why pay high speed internet if your game is going to behave like it's hook up on a dial up... ?Great game anet..can't wait till next year where you'l have up to 3 frames a sec. :D

That doesn't make sense ... the fact that other people don't have massive lag issues would tend towards the lag problem NOT being Anet server.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Why pay high speed internet if your game is going to behave like it's hook up on a dial up... ?Great game anet..can't wait till next year where you'l have up to 3 frames a sec. :D

That doesn't make sense ... the fact that other people don't have massive lag issues would tend towards the lag problem NOT being Anet server.

It may be a little of both. ANET admitted their load balancer was not right for their upgraded server...worked toward fixing that, but then noticed the issue persisted during reset. They haven't updated since then.

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@Warrior Xsr.1672 said:Most likely it's your internet isn't fast enough or PC isn't powerful enough for Gw2. People in my guild complain about lag. While It is working great for me. So again, It's probably something in between you and Anet. And not Anet. This might not be a popular post . But most likely the case. IMHO. If your internet is less than 100 mb Down and 30+ up. It's probably one of the reasons. Also, I played on a regular 1TB hard drive. With Lag. After going to a SSD. No Lag! Everything else the same. Game was smooth in Wvw with 2 full zergs going at it. But it's easier and cheaper to blame Anet :) Like I said... ....Not popular. But probably true!Its not true when people on 9900K/RTX2080ti/NVMe raid0 ssds/1gbps internet will still lag.

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@Acheron.4731 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Why pay high speed internet if your game is going to behave like it's hook up on a dial up... ?Great game anet..can't wait till next year where you'l have up to 3 frames a sec. :D

That doesn't make sense ... the fact that other people don't have massive lag issues would tend towards the lag problem NOT being Anet server.

It may be a little of both. ANET admitted their load balancer was not right for their upgraded server...worked toward fixing that, but then noticed the issue persisted during reset. They haven't updated since then.

Sure, but overall, it's alot more not Anet than it is. Not saying that Anet has no effect on this but it's certainly not the majority their issue because there are players where this isn't a problem for them.

The fact is that there are lots of connections over the internet that impact how a player experiences the game, so singling out Anet because they develop the game as THE problem is nonsense.

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@grouchybhaal.4275 said:How old of machines are you guys using?

People confuse FPS lag and skill lag which is backend server related. This is something anet has talked about and knows exists. Keeping up a FPS counter and network logger will show this, FPS will still be high, however skills will not cast. I have friends that I play with who don't have the best gaming builds and they can tell when a zerg even gets close (FPS lag), however I don't notice as my FPS are fine, but two large or three zergs fighting in SMC etc and skill lag gets pretty bad.

9900k@5Ghz all coreGTX980Ti2 NVMe 1TB SSDs, one for OS, one for games32GB RAM1gbps/1gbps fiber connection

@Warrior Xsr.1672 said:Most likely it's your internet isn't fast enough or PC isn't powerful enough for Gw2. People in my guild complain about lag. While It is working great for me. So again, It's probably something in between you and Anet. And not Anet. This might not be a popular post . But most likely the case. IMHO. If your internet is less than 100 mb Down and 30+ up. It's probably one of the reasons. Also, I played on a regular 1TB hard drive. With Lag. After going to a SSD. No Lag! Everything else the same. Game was smooth in Wvw with 2 full zergs going at it. But it's easier and cheaper to blame Anet :) Like I said... ....Not popular. But probably true!

Except it's not true. link speed has nothing to do with lag, online games are more ping sensitive than bandwidth sensitive. The only time this might be the case would be dial up speeds, even basic broadband will be well more than fast enough for any online game, including GW2.

Also, sorry to break it to you, but the SSD only helps loading times, not FPS, so what you are feeling is a placebo effect. Each map is an instance, so when you swap you get a loading screen where the map, people, meshes and textures etc etc are loaded into main system memory (RAM), the SSD will make this much faster in most cases. However once this is done, there is very little disk I/O going on, if there is, it means your system is thrashing and is probably low on system memory to start with.

This is a back end server problem, that anet has admitted to for many, MANY years. Now, some people DO mistake FPS lag or other local problems as skill lag, however what is being talked about here, and the videos linked in the post, are SKILL lag, and not FPS lag. Most people, including myself, have from the start tried to figure out what was wrong to fix the problem, after network and trace route monitoring showing the end response time from the anet (now AWS) servers to be the culprit, we have been asking for something to be done. Outside of admitting the problem exists, the response has been minimal, with very little details on what they are doing (if anything) to try and fix the problem. At this point in time, assuming it was ever looked into, they are bound to know what the problem is, and if it is reasonably fixable.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:Gw2 doesn't actually use much data up or down. The latency from the routing would be one factor, but you can easily play gw2 on a 10mbps connection, even lower.

@DemonSeed.3528 is totally correct. The problem of Internet connection is not your up/download rate, but the ping (time of a round-trip) of your route from your computer to ANets game-server in the amazon cloud. In fact, each package with bad ping may cause you a lag (with rubber-banding) as the client (and server) need to process packages in the correct order (and the rubber-banding happen as the client estimate where you and the others are and then get corrected by a late package).

If your internet provider puts your packages into a queue somewhere because it's cables are sometimes somewhere overloaded or it prefers other peoples packages first (Network neutrality violation) you have a lag. and that is true for all Online Games. (In games like Counter Strike you can even use that: If you move, you can shoot before your opponent sees you, if you stay you got shoot before you see your opponent. That's why CSS-several server simply kick/ban people with bad ping.)

(Video) streaming and downloads are NOT so much affected by that, as they cache packets instead of processing them real-time. Only if the cache is exhausted you see your video hang.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:Why pay high speed internet if your game is going to behave like it's hook up on a dial up... ?Great game anet..can't wait till next year where you'l have up to 3 frames a sec. :D

That doesn't make sense ... the fact that other people don't have massive lag issues would tend towards the lag problem NOT being Anet server.

It may be a little of both. ANET admitted their load balancer was not right for their upgraded server...worked toward fixing that, but then noticed the issue persisted during reset. They haven't updated since then.

Sure, but overall, it's alot more not Anet than it is. Not saying that Anet has no effect on this but it's certainly not the majority their issue because there are players where this isn't a problem for them.

The fact is that there are lots of connections over the internet that impact how a player experiences the game, so singling out Anet because they develop the game as THE problem is nonsense.

But you also can't discount that they're engineering level decisions have a major impact. Moving from their old servers to AWS, and then moving the hosting zone into Central US created a better average metric, but also exacerbated latency those on the edges of the region's coverage. Load Balancing is notorious for being a moving target, made all the worse by the fact Fast Competitive modes get very problematic with Asymmetric networks and network queuing. Slow response times are irritating, but variable response times can't be compensated for reasonably by players. Our Skill queuing system is the worst of both worlds when it comes action/reaction, since the combat system does reach order resolution in increments of fractions of a second. The division between client side and server side control for various skills is also a problem, because it actively changes the order of resolution.

But more pertinent is the resource allocations, the "operations" throughput of the server, queuing methods, culling, target caps, target priorities, and the data structures that handle it all, have all proven to be ongoing challenges for them. Decisions and implementations in all of these areas have had significant impact to both overall and situation specific server performance. Like all skills having a 5 target cap and a 25 stack status cap in order to compensate for the server's inability to process 10s of thousands of operations per second, without the entire system imploding into a "slowed time" state because its not allowed to drop packets. When the servers got code improvements, they changed the way things capped, and for awhile could run a blob fight without insanely aggressive culling.

But when they introduced the Warclaw, they also lowered the player count per wvw map to prevent misfires with how the game handles mounting/dismounting as a state change. Even then, the ordering of operations caused an opening for state changes to override and skip each over each other, resulting in the Invisible warclaw exploit.

Latency may be latency, and thus unavoidable in cases. But how the game handles that disparity is something Anet has to consciously make choices about. And given Anet's history of cutting corners, actively denying facts (even being proven wrong in their own metrics by the community), and notorious for not following through with major undertakings, with little clarity as to why, its very hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Credit where Credit is due over the years.... but the game, and the Engine itself, has multiple systemic issues that had been routinely ignored, and is only now being fixed out of necessity, or possibly desperation.

And thats not even delving into class implementations and balance. Those decisions drive the technical requirements. There has been a number of skills that have straight up been broken, break things, and even torture the server on a technical level. Latency alone does not account for the majority of whats wrong with WvW performance. And in a lot of cases, raw latency is the least determining factor to whats being suffered. When POF launched, Scourge spam was not only causing queue floods, it even caused some skill activations to misfire entirely. I'm not talking "takes forever to work"... but straight up fails to register it being used before moving on to something else. I don't think I've ever seen that happen before.... even in the "invisible zerg because of culling" days prior to HOT.

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@starlinvf.1358 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Why pay high speed internet if your game is going to behave like it's hook up on a dial up... ?Great game anet..can't wait till next year where you'l have up to 3 frames a sec. :D

That doesn't make sense ... the fact that other people don't have massive lag issues would tend towards the lag problem NOT being Anet server.

It may be a little of both. ANET admitted their load balancer was not right for their upgraded server...worked toward fixing that, but then noticed the issue persisted during reset. They haven't updated since then.

Sure, but overall, it's alot more not Anet than it is. Not saying that Anet has no effect on this but it's certainly not the majority their issue because there are players where this isn't a problem for them.

The fact is that there are lots of connections over the internet that impact how a player experiences the game, so singling out Anet because they develop the game as THE problem is nonsense.

But you also can't discount that they're engineering level decisions have a major impact.

Well, I didn't so ... we should all be good with the understanding that whenever people have lag issues, they should stop assuming it's because of 'the game' just because they are not happy with something about the game.

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@grouchybhaal.4275 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Built in jan..Asus prime z390-ai5-9600k16gigs

This type of wide spread lag started like a month ago, just seems to get worse every week. Yesterday dc'd a couple times, during reset a portion of nsp and yb were kicked after a keep fight in ebg. Some zerg fights no matter where now gets laggy, before it use to just be in smc.

I mean you can try and blame peoples machines but there's a lot of people experiencing it now on both sides of the ocean.

Weird... Unless im just used to the pathetic performance from eso and the average ms of 500+. So gw2 feels lile a godsend.. Cant say i get major lag at all

I51060gtx 6 gb16gb ram500 gb ssd

So nothing special machine wise

Budget Friendly:Gigabyte ab-350 GamingRyzen 3 2200gRX570 (4GB)16GB RAM1TB HDD

Runs GW2 WvW just fine...and this is a budget build

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Built in jan..Asus prime z390-ai5-9600k16gigs

This type of wide spread lag started like a month ago, just seems to get worse every week. Yesterday dc'd a couple times, during reset a portion of nsp and yb were kicked after a keep fight in ebg. Some zerg fights no matter where now gets laggy, before it use to just be in smc.

I mean you can try and blame peoples machines but there's a lot of people experiencing it now on both sides of the ocean.

Weird... Unless im just used to the pathetic performance from eso and the average ms of 500+. So gw2 feels lile a godsend.. Cant say i get major lag at all

I51060gtx 6 gb16gb ram500 gb ssd

So nothing special machine wise

Budget Friendly:Gigabyte ab-350 GamingRyzen 3 2200gRX570 (4GB)16GB RAM1TB HDD

Runs GW2 WvW just fine...and this is a budget build

Thats it... Like mines a budget build and runs just fine also has one of the worlds worst internet.. And no major or game breaking lag.

Unless everyone is running on a 7 year old machine or a toaster, dont know how they are getting the lag?

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@grouchybhaal.4275 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Built in jan..Asus prime z390-ai5-9600k16gigs

This type of wide spread lag started like a month ago, just seems to get worse every week. Yesterday dc'd a couple times, during reset a portion of nsp and yb were kicked after a keep fight in ebg. Some zerg fights no matter where now gets laggy, before it use to just be in smc.

I mean you can try and blame peoples machines but there's a lot of people experiencing it now on both sides of the ocean.

Weird... Unless im just used to the pathetic performance from eso and the average ms of 500+. So gw2 feels lile a godsend.. Cant say i get major lag at all

I51060gtx 6 gb16gb ram500 gb ssd

So nothing special machine wise

Budget Friendly:Gigabyte ab-350 GamingRyzen 3 2200gRX570 (4GB)16GB RAM1TB HDD

Runs GW2 WvW just fine...and this is a budget build

Thats it... Like mines a budget build and runs just fine also has one of the worlds worst internet.. And no major or game breaking lag.

Unless everyone is running on a 7 year old machine or a toaster, dont know how they are getting the lag?

I only get some sort of lag/stuttering when I stream (and its the stream that stutters, not my actual gameplay)

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@grouchybhaal.4275 said:Unless everyone is running on a 7 year old machine or a toaster, dont know how they are getting the lag?

You don't need a potato PC to experience lag. Your experience is different, but that doesn't discount the experience that others are having. Having not experienced it yourself will of course make you have a different view on it.

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You don't even need that good internet to play games online, it's only if you also stream, use a P2P client and/or live in a household; which has to share bandwidth.

It's a far cry from the days we had 56k modems with 150-200 pings, but even this Skill lag and rubberbanding as of late, feels much worse than my nostalgia about those days.

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Also, sorry to break it to you, but the SSD only helps loading times, not FPS,

You are dead wrong. It affects the lag associated with Zerg lag. I have seen it's huge impact when I went from SSD to HDD and back to SSD. 20 fps drop using SSD and down to 4 fps using a HDD. So unless you have switched and used both SSD and HDD? Your opinion means squat! Smh! Try it! Then get back to me. pfft

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Also, sorry to break it to you, but the SSD only helps loading times, not FPS,

You are dead wrong. It affects the lag associated with Zerg lag. I have seen it's huge impact when I went from SSD to HDD and back to SSD. 20 fps drop using SSD and down to 4 fps using a HDD. So unless you have switched and used both SSD and HDD? Your opinion means squat! Smh! Try it! Then get back to me. pfft

I am not wrong, to suggest otherwise you are saying that the basic function of the computers subsystems and games operations don't exist or follow specific rules. You are also saying every single computer hardware review site is wrong. Again, the only time you are going to run into this is on systems that are thrashing, which is an issue with system memory and not because of the SSD.

And last, but not least, I have had the game in the current system on an older 600GB velociraptor, then on a normal SATA SSD and now on a NVMe SSD.

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