DuoQ destroys PvP

[Lighter.5631]

let's face it, DuoQ is literally exploiting the system, destroying player base and making PvP matches unfun to play.with the current situation of having low PvP population, DuoQ is not about having fun with friend and facing competitive opponent anymore, but a necessary tool to cheat the system to gain more rating points then the system designed you to have while making the game unplayable.

First of all, in most other competitive games, there are a top rating threshold, because when you are at the top, you lose way more points then you earn, so making you unable to progress.Only when people below you reached to your level and by beating them you will then progress.But it's not the case in GW2, DuoQers ratings are so much higher then any other players, GW2 is probably the only game where there's a huge rating gap between top rating and the rating below, at the end of previous season, which should not happen at all.That is because by exploiting the system with DuoQing, these players have jumped over the threshold of top rating, while others are stuck below with their own threshold, it's like they are playing two different games.

Secondly, by jumping through the top rating threshold, it forces players to NOT play the game, because you are way high up , for the system to not drag you back down to the normal rating. you only wait for DuoQ to happen. It also impacts the solo players as there will be less player of the same level Qing and they will get matched with low level matches and lose way too much rating in the process.and when these DuoQ actually play, solo players still get affected because most likely they will be against the DuoQ team and still lose ratings.

In the end, DuoQ is just exploiting the system and feeding the low level/soloq players to jump through the rating threshold while making games uneven, unfun for everyone.and "progressing in leader board is no longer a matter of mechanical skill and map awareness", i quote Woodenpotatoe.

[Megametzler.5729]

1. Yes, duoQ gives an advantage.
2. The solution everybody would like is: solo leaderboard, mixedQ leaderboard and swiss ATs.
3. Leaderboards cannot be mixed though, on demand tournaments can be the competitive team games leaving ranked solo based.
4. We need swiss... we should stop hating each other and... well, push Anet to finally implement this format.
5. Until then, I allow myself to quote a famous forum poet: "All is vain."

Just don't take it too seriously. Honestly, I would be happy if the current rating wouldn't be shown at all until the very end of the season. It promotes tryharding, arrogance and toxicity. And a lot of the problems you mentioned in your second point because you simply couldn't control so much.

[shadowpass.4236]

As someone who solo ques a lot, I can say there was a lot more match manipulation during the solo only seasons. The population during that time was also super dead. A lot of people enjoy playing with others and many good players returned after they brought duo back.

Even though I solo que, it's very aggravating trying to carry 4 randoms who can't seem to stay alive for more than 10 seconds. When I get annoyed, I can always play with a friend. If I didn't have that option, I'd play a different game and I'm pretty sure they would as well.

It is significantly easier to match manipulate during solo only cause you won't be able to win 4v5 if you only have yourself to count on. Also, solo que seasons were full of trolling and meme builds because people didn't care if they won or lost. With a friend, you generally don't throw matches because you'd make yourself look bad to the person you're with.

[Till.6473]

Duo q is not good.

Im plat 2/3 eu today i play solo 10 games ,8 times il play vs top 10 and top 50 eu , 6 times i win .

Why ? Just because my level is not bad im not pvp god player i play just pvp since start gw2 .

Nobody is unkillable on 1v1 same god of pvp just play in peace and your brain.

Pls stop cry class nerf pvp nerf etccccc...

Anet listent people pvp when all community play in same.

Pls go peace and strenght for pvp

Please community listen me.

Peace

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@shadowpass.4236 said:As someone who solo ques a lot, I can say there was a lot more match manipulation during the solo only seasons. The population during that time was also super dead. A lot of people enjoy playing with others and many good players returned after they brought duo back.

It is significantly easier to match manipulate during solo only cause you won't be able to win 4v5 if you only have yourself to count on. Also, solo que seasons were full of trolling and meme builds because people didn't care if they won or lost.

Classic wintrading is actually much easier with merged queues than without because you have more control over both who gets placed on your team and the enemy team.

The only reason it isn't as common anymore is because it's unnecessary. There is no reason to invest money or gold into wintrading, or to risk a week's worth of dishonor and forever being labeled a wintrader with DuoQ around. DuoQ presents far easier ways to manipulate matches without any money or risk through metagaming, that either isn't possible, or is significantly more difficult to pull of in SoloQ.

So yeah, if you don't count all the merged queue metagaming kitten as match manipulation; then it was more common with SoloQ. Some might argue that the rare SoloQ wintrader was a lot more bearable in the grand scope of things though.

With a friend, you generally don't throw matches because you'd make yourself look bad to the person you're with.

You'd think this was true, but in Season 13 when DuoQ came back; there was an actual exploit that allowed a DuoQ partner to leave a game and incur no rating penalty to their DuoQ partner when they lost. The game is free to play, there's no cap on how far apart two ratings can queue together, and dishonor penalties aren't all that heavy. People absolutely abused this. It's why ratings were so inflated that season. I remember I finished higher than i'd ever been in any other season, but with one of my lowest actual winrates ever; specifically because of this. Heck, like; close to plat3 was barely enough to make top 250.

It's patched now, but I suppose we're all supposed to accept that one team is more likely to throw a game than the other. PvP means Player Vs. Player, right? I'd assume that's what it's suppose to be about then, given that it's not called Player Vs. Matchmaker, or Player Vs. Metagaming.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Multicolorhipster.9751"

People win traded during solo que seasons because it was extremely easy to throw matches. Now, with duo que, it is much harder to wintrade successfully.

No one manipulates matches. No one cares enough to. The ones at the top are just good players. The same people are at the top regardless of whether it is solo que or duo que seasons. The only difference is that the population dies extremely hard during solo seasons and frustrates the heck out of anyone forced to play alone.

Seriously, so many of of you put a lot of time and effort into figuring out how people "manipulate" matches when literally all of it is false. Watch some of the top players stream or watch streams from those 1v1/2v2/3v3 tournaments. Players like Helio consistently place high on the leaderboards AND win those tournaments. Ask yourself, is he somehow manipulating every one of those tournaments or is he just a good player?

Obviously, he's just a good player and if he decides he really wants to mess up his sleep schedule, he'll que at off hours. Even then, that's more effort than 99% of people care to put in to ranked these days. I've been in matches with a few people who consistently cry "wintrading" on the forums and I watch them AFK or whine in team/map chat. EVERY single one of those matches was winnable (and I won several of them, with and against the conspiracy theorists, because I carried).

Now, I'm not saying people didn't wintrade in the past (like when I got screwed out of my rank 2). However, the fact of the matter is that duo que makes it a lot harder to wintrade and that currently, no one is doing anything shady.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@"Multicolorhipster.9751"

People win traded during solo que seasons because it was extremely easy to throw matches. Now, with duo que, it is much harder to wintrade successfully.

No one manipulates matches. No one cares enough to. The ones at the top are just good players. The same people are at the top regardless of whether it is solo que or duo que seasons. The only difference is that the population dies extremely hard during solo seasons and frustrates the heck out of anyone forced to play alone.

How does a DuoQ suggest or influence people not to throw matches anymore than SoloQ did when they're forced to play together in the same queue? Consider that these people are at an inherent disadvantage and typically a lower rating at the same time that's happening.

Seriously, so many of of you put a lot of time and effort into figuring out how people "manipulate" matches when literally all of it is false. Watch some of the top players stream or watch streams from those 1v1/2v2/3v3 tournaments. Players like Helio consistently place high on the leaderboards AND win those tournaments. Ask yourself, is he somehow manipulating every one of those tournaments or is he just a good player?

It's not about any singular person. There's not even anything to figure out, or some big conspiracy theory. It's just a culmination of observations about the matchmaker, and the relatively easy ways to exploit it within an unchecked merged queue. I know you probably won't believe me, but when you give people the tools to easily exploit something in a competitive environment; the odds are almost certain that they'll use it.

Whoever's specifically doing it doesn't matter at all, aside from the sense that they're more likely to abuse it than someone playing the game for the sake of playing the game. Like... you wouldn't put a convicted car-thief behind the wheel of your car. Why would you give proven wintraders new tools to manipulate your gamemode? Really, why would you give that power to any random person? Car-thief, wintrader, or not; you just don't do these things.

And of course, this only applies to Ranked, because Ranked uses a merged queue, and not the standard coordinated and competitive teams vs teams option that exists in some tournies, nor the total RNG assignments of others.(or closer to what SoloQ offers)

Obviously, he's just a good player and if he decides he really wants to mess up his sleep schedule, he'll que at off hours. Even then, that's more effort than 99% of people care to put in to ranked these days. I've been in matches with a few people who consistently cry "wintrading" on the forums and I watch them AFK or whine in team/map chat. EVERY single one of those matches was winnable (and I won several of them, with and against the conspiracy theorists, because I carried).

This is exactly what I mean by Metagaming. I don't see why I should be impressed by someone queuing in the off-hours for easier games. It's not wintrading, like I said previously, but it does feel like match manipulation/match fixing. I think anyone complaining about that is completely justified. Ranked PvP should be about the competition, and having fun. Not being one massive catering service for good players to hardly, if ever be matched against other good players.

Now, I'm not saying people didn't wintrade in the past (like when I got screwed out of my rank 2). However, the fact of the matter is that duo que makes it a lot harder to wintrade and that currently, no one is doing anything shady.

This is kind of ignorant, and I mean that in the most literal, and non-offensive way possible.

People are teaming to queue-snipe lower rated players, some going as far as to incorporate low-ranked alts to queue with much higher rated players just to maintain a lower average rating, and if they really want to get sweaty about it; they can queue together as two of the same class they have the easiest time dealing with, and then switching back to a counter just before the match starts.

When the subject is DuoQ, the recent-past is most definitely relevant, because it shows what people can and will do with it. Just in the past few seasons, conveniently right before the new titles were added; we had the typical paid boosted accounts at the top of the LB nearly every season. Accounts that averaged gold, low plat, or didn't even PvP at all. Suddenly they hop into PvP and pull a top 10 finish with upwards of 80% of their games won.

To say nothing shady is going on is a lie, and whether intentional or not; lies are a dangerous and temporary solution.

[Ysmir.4986]

When I solo q, and this has become more the case from season to season, as soon as I attain my regular rating season of plat 2, I start to fight with my team as much as the enemy team. Apparently, even though this game has been out for 7 years now, some people still think that running a thief build with shadow signet or no stun breaks is a good idea.. Now of course, no one is at fault for being new at the game. It is frustrating though that such players find themselves in my games, where I expect not to have a ranger camping beast 25s before spawn while his team is fighting on mid.

And so duoQ is a way for me to guarantee that at least another person on my team knows what he's doing. Now, I don't feel like I'm manipulating any games, although I won't deny that I'm looking for an advantage here. Same thing for people on ladder that specifically q only at late hours so they can easily carry their team. Those players have every right to chose when they play the game, and saying it's match manipulation just comes off as being salty.

The real problem that I see is not duoQ, it's low player population that keeps shrinking specifically due to :

• Lack of additional content in sPvP,
• State of balance in the game;
• Other reasons (you name them).

DuoQs, for people who do them, is a system that makes it possible to cope with the atrocious matchmaking born from low pvp population. You remove that and what's going to happen is that a lot of people will just stop playing the game mode all together. This has happened in a past season and that's why Anet brought it back (partly, I'm guessing).

But all this has been said repeatedly in the past.

[Elxdark.9702]

we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so damn awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

[Sindrener.1592]

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

[Itz Jay.8941]

They should just make seasons back to back between duo and solo queue and get rid of the time inbetween seasons. There is no reason to have this time inbetween season since this game and specifically the game mode conquest makes it impossible to balance because of the different roles that can create momentum in conquest. There should be a 5 man queue separate as well or maybe it is live only during duo queue seasons. So what everyone says we don't have the population, just try it out ffs, the community might come together. Anet communicate with people make polls listen to what the people want.

[Megametzler.5729]

@bluri.2653 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

But that's not the issue. The issue is: Which system is objectively more fair?

Now, I do agree it is not the biggest problem. Blaming soloQ or duoQ is often misleading. DuoQ does not reduce match quality in general, it can make games less enjoyable for opponents by superior communication, coordination and rotation, but that could theoretically happen without duoQ too, it would simply be less likely. However, it also only improves the match quality for those duoQing.

But duoQ allows several tactics to (kind of) break the system - active match manipulation (what was that about rank1 NA last season or so?) or the system well explained by WoodenPotatoes the other day, steamrolling during off-hours. That is what makes the duoQ system unfair - the influence can be debatable.

How to solve the population issue is a completely different matter and much more complex than solo/duo or even swiss ATs. And I doubt that is still going to happen.

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

But that's not the issue. The issue is: Which system is objectively more fair?

Now, I do agree it is not the biggest problem. Blaming soloQ or duoQ is often misleading. DuoQ does not reduce match quality in general, it can make games less enjoyable for opponents by superior communication, coordination and rotation, but that could theoretically happen without duoQ too, it would simply be less likely. However, it also only improves the match quality for those duoQing.

But duoQ allows several tactics to (kind of) break the system - active match manipulation (what was that about rank1 NA last season or so?) or the system well explained by WoodenPotatoes the other day, steamrolling during off-hours. That is what makes the duoQ system unfair - the influence can be debatable.

How to solve the population issue is a completely different matter and much more complex than solo/duo or even swiss ATs. And I doubt that is still going to happen.

Anytime people try more (communication / duo with partner / coordination like u stated) the match quality goes up. Match quality being higher is always better and with solo less trying = worse quality. Though, match quality being worse is better for those forum sore losers who cry every season because they'd rather complain instead of either improving, trying more, or finding themselves a duo to improve with and its why the community devolves every season.

Also no offense to WP, but hes a plat 1 player at best who got a lucky streak day 1 of season(due to the volatility of ratings day 1) and placed high and is speaking like he actually can climb the leaderboard. Theres a reason hes been camping his rating and hasnt q'd since, lets see where he ends at 120 min games. If op is right and he said map awareness and mechanics aren't needed to climb then hes just as clueless as most people on this forum about the leaderboard. Leaderboard has nothing to do with skill or map awareness but somehow those with the best awareness/skill are at the top end of season every time :thonk:

[Zagerus.8675]

I would like to see what the leaderboards look like after a season of SoloQ only : J

[Megametzler.5729]

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

But that's not the issue. The issue is: Which system is objectively more fair?

Now, I do agree it is not the biggest problem. Blaming soloQ or duoQ is often misleading. DuoQ does not reduce match quality in general, it can make games less enjoyable for opponents by superior communication, coordination and rotation, but that could theoretically happen without duoQ too, it would simply be less likely. However, it also only improves the match quality for those duoQing.

But duoQ allows several tactics to (kind of) break the system - active match manipulation (what was that about rank1 NA last season or so?) or the system well explained by WoodenPotatoes the other day, steamrolling during off-hours. That is what makes the duoQ system unfair - the influence can be debatable.

How to solve the population issue is a completely different matter and much more complex than solo/duo or even swiss ATs. And I doubt that is still going to happen.(...)Also no offense to WP, but hes a plat 1 player at best who got a lucky streak day 1 of season(due to the volatility of ratings day 1) and placed high and is speaking like he actually can climb the leaderboard. Theres a reason hes been camping his rating and hasnt q'd since, lets see where he ends at 120 min games. (...)

But that... is exactly the issue he was talking about...? :lol:

[Crab Fear.1624]

@"Zagerus.8675" said:I would like to see what the leaderboards look like after a season of SoloQ only : J

Here is season 11 and 12 (no duo q past 1600 rating) top 30 for each season.

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

But that's not the issue. The issue is: Which system is objectively more fair?

Now, I do agree it is not the biggest problem. Blaming soloQ or duoQ is often misleading. DuoQ does not reduce match quality in general, it can make games less enjoyable for opponents by superior communication, coordination and rotation, but that could theoretically happen without duoQ too, it would simply be less likely. However, it also only improves the match quality for those duoQing.

But duoQ allows several tactics to (kind of) break the system - active match manipulation (what was that about rank1 NA last season or so?) or the system well explained by WoodenPotatoes the other day, steamrolling during off-hours. That is what makes the duoQ system unfair - the influence can be debatable.

How to solve the population issue is a completely different matter and much more complex than solo/duo or even swiss ATs. And I doubt that is still going to happen.(...)Also no offense to WP, but hes a plat 1 player at best who got a lucky streak day 1 of season(due to the volatility of ratings day 1) and placed high and is speaking like he actually can climb the leaderboard. Theres a reason hes been camping his rating and hasnt q'd since, lets see where he ends at 120 min games. (...)

But that... is exactly the issue he was talking about...? :lol:

Ok clearly you don't know how the LB works. Day 1 of the season or really the first week people are doing placements. A win awards you 40+ rating and a loss can be up to -100. That is the volatility I'm talking about. When a large enough sample size of matches is played (50+) is when you start to see people be placed EXACTLY where they belong. If you think duo q is the reason you're lower or higher you're wrong.

[Hex.8714]

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

But that's not the issue. The issue is: Which system is objectively more fair?

Now, I do agree it is not the biggest problem. Blaming soloQ or duoQ is often misleading. DuoQ does not reduce match quality in general, it can make games less enjoyable for opponents by superior communication, coordination and rotation, but that could theoretically happen without duoQ too, it would simply be less likely. However, it also only improves the match quality for those duoQing.

But duoQ allows several tactics to (kind of) break the system - active match manipulation (what was that about rank1 NA last season or so?) or the system well explained by WoodenPotatoes the other day, steamrolling during off-hours. That is what makes the duoQ system unfair - the influence can be debatable.

How to solve the population issue is a completely different matter and much more complex than solo/duo or even swiss ATs. And I doubt that is still going to happen.

Anytime people try more (communication / duo with partner / coordination like u stated) the match quality goes up. Match quality being higher is always better and with solo less trying = worse quality. Though, match quality being worse is better for those forum sore losers who cry every season because they'd rather complain instead of either improving, trying more, or finding themselves a duo to improve with and its why the community devolves every season.

Also no offense to WP, but hes a plat 1 player at best who got a lucky streak day 1 of season(due to the volatility of ratings day 1) and placed high and is speaking like he actually can climb the leaderboard. Theres a reason hes been camping his rating and hasnt q'd since, lets see where he ends at 120 min games. If op is right and he said map awareness and mechanics aren't needed to climb then hes just as clueless as most people on this forum about the leaderboard. Leaderboard has nothing to do with skill or map awareness but somehow those with the best awareness/skill are at the top end of season every time :thonk:

No offense you re plat 1 too at best without duo Qing at off peak hours. If Wp managed to get rank 1 it means any1 else can do it with duo Q abuse at 5 am. Its why your solo Q account that you even duo Qed half of the games on it barely broke plat 2 lul

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

@Hex.8714 said:

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@Elxdark.9702 said:we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so kitten awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lolliterally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

^ the truth, duoq and soloq are equally as trash and won't solve the low pop issue and won't make the games better

But that's not the issue. The issue is: Which system is objectively more fair?

Now, I do agree it is not the biggest problem. Blaming soloQ or duoQ is often misleading. DuoQ does not reduce match quality in general, it can make games less enjoyable for opponents by superior communication, coordination and rotation, but that could theoretically happen without duoQ too, it would simply be less likely. However, it also only improves the match quality for those duoQing.

But duoQ allows several tactics to (kind of) break the system - active match manipulation (what was that about rank1 NA last season or so?) or the system well explained by WoodenPotatoes the other day, steamrolling during off-hours. That is what makes the duoQ system unfair - the influence can be debatable.

How to solve the population issue is a completely different matter and much more complex than solo/duo or even swiss ATs. And I doubt that is still going to happen.

Anytime people try more (communication / duo with partner / coordination like u stated) the match quality goes up. Match quality being higher is always better and with solo less trying = worse quality. Though, match quality being worse is better for those forum sore losers who cry every season because they'd rather complain instead of either improving, trying more, or finding themselves a duo to improve with and its why the community devolves every season.

Also no offense to WP, but hes a plat 1 player at best who got a lucky streak day 1 of season(due to the volatility of ratings day 1) and placed high and is speaking like he actually can climb the leaderboard. Theres a reason hes been camping his rating and hasnt q'd since, lets see where he ends at 120 min games. If op is right and he said map awareness and mechanics aren't needed to climb then hes just as clueless as most people on this forum about the leaderboard. Leaderboard has nothing to do with skill or map awareness but somehow those with the best awareness/skill are at the top end of season every time :thonk:

No offense you re plat 1 too at best without duo Qing at off peak hours. If Wp managed to get rank 1 it means any1 else can do it with duo Q abuse at 5 am. Its why your solo Q account that you even duo Qed half of the games on it barely broke plat 2 lul

Rank 1 season 10 (solo q season) but nice try buddy!

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Multicolorhipster.9751"

I have no interest in constantly repeating myself. You can "observe" whatever you want but choosing not to que at NA prime-time isn't match manipulation. There's really nothing shady going on. The same players are at the top whether or not the seasons are solo que or duo que. However, the same people constantly cry, "Foul play!" when in reality they should just practice more if they want one of the top spots on the leaderboards.

For the record, Wooden Potatoes was quing around 12pm EST on stream when he went on his win streak to rank 1 so it's not like he was quing at some borked hour. The amount of misinformation and attempts to discredit people on the forums is ridiculous. Yes, he probably won't finish at rank 1, but it's not like he was match manipulating lol.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:For the record, Wooden Potatoes was quing around 12pm EST on stream when he went on his win streak to rank 1 so it's not like he was quing at some borked hour. The amount of misinformation and attempts to discredit people on the forums is ridiculous. Yes, he probably won't finish at rank 1, but it's not like he was match manipulating lol.

No he wasn't technically match manipulating, but in his video on the subject; he made it clear that it felt dirty, that he was "not super happy about it", and that overall it put PvP and himself in a weird place. I went back to rewatch and some quotes particularly stuck:"Unfortunate and ugly""Cheesey""Not an expression of skill"

And this is coming from the rank 1 player at the time of his video, and a very mechanically sound player overall, yet he discredits himself over the means to which he got his rank, and worries over what it would take to keep it considering how he got there.

Not exactly match manipulation, no. He never described it that way. It is however, pretty shady, underhanded, and most-definitely unimpressive. WP is at least humble enough to paint it that way. All the other people who abuse it pretend like they got there solely through skill, and that anyone questioning the means is just complaining because they aren't as good.

Even if those questioning it just want to play a competitive mode with some sense of fair competition without any outside Metagaming BS, it always comes back to this.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Multicolorhipster.9751

Yes, because luck played a big factor in WP going 17-1. With that being said, there are players that are good enough to maintain rank 1 simply by carrying their teams. I'm not saying WP is bad, but afaik he can't hold/win outnumbered consistently every match which is basically required if he wants to maintain his current win ratio.

That's the whole point of the argument though. Luck should not be a determining factor in whether or not you win matches. However, Conquest is meant to be played in teams of 5. Thus, decreasing the amount of people you can play with increases RNG. This is the same reason why a lot of good players hate solo que. We practice a lot only to have our efforts invalidated because we CANNOT win some matches even though we play to the best of our ability. Going above and beyond only to lose a match because your teammates keep wiping repeatedly, don't know how to rotate, and can't seem to get a single point is very frustrating and causes people to simply quit the game entirely.

Duo que helps alleviate this issue. Placing a solo que restriction will just kill off the population (again) as well as increase the frequency of any unhealthy behaviors in ranked. Furthermore, unless the announcement on August 30th is good enough to revitalize the game, bringing solo que back would likely result in the death of PvP. Personally, I will not come back if Anet continues to make the same mistakes.

[Lucentfir.7430]

I don't know how anyone can call this a competative mode, when the way to be a "competative top player" is to avoid the competition and minimize your chances to fight competent opponents. Good job top end. ;)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Theres more than dou q killing pvpFor starters every third match players experience afk'ers ruining their match and wasting their time.Stuck in a bug is still rampant.Balance is garbage.Population is low, due to above mentioned plus a variety of other reasons.They may as well just close the pvp shop up unless their gonna actually decide to dedicate real time and resources to actually make real meaningful improvements to the pvp modes in this game.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Yes, because luck played a big factor in WP going 17-1. With that being said, there are players that are good enough to maintain rank 1 simply by carrying their teams. I'm not saying WP is bad, but afaik he can't hold/win outnumbered consistently every match which is basically required if he wants to maintain his current win ratio.

I'm going to trust what he said, because he held the rank, and he's WP. Not to mention what he's said has already been mirrored by pretty much every argument towards Merged queues already. The people trying to muddy his accomplishment in this thread only makes me more inclined to praise him, and his humble decision to whistleblow on some of the negatives of Merged queues.

That's the whole point of the argument though. Luck should not be a determining factor in whether or not you win matches. However, Conquest is meant to be played in teams of 5. Thus, decreasing the amount of people you can play with increases RNG. This is the same reason why a lot of good players hate solo que. We practice a lot only to have our efforts invalidated because we CANNOT win some matches even though we play to the best of our ability. Going above and beyond only to lose a match because your teammates keep wiping repeatedly, don't know how to rotate, and can't seem to get a single point is very frustrating and causes people to simply quit the game entirely.

Duo que helps alleviate this issue. Placing a solo que restriction will just kill off the population (again) as well as increase the frequency of any unhealthy behaviors in ranked. Furthermore, unless the announcement on August 30th is good enough to revitalize the game, bringing solo que back would likely result in the death of PvP. Personally, I will not come back if Anet continues to make the same mistakes.

I agree, rather than restricting Ranked back to SoloQ; they should just split the queues and Leaderboards between teams and Solos.

I can't think of a single issue created by either DuoQ or SoloQ that splitting the queues wouldn't solve. The only people who lose are the people using the same tactics WP detailed, because those are the people that abuse the current merged queue for easy games in their favor. If they threaten to quit over that, that's their choice. I don't see the need to even bat an eye. Who knows how many people have already quit over their rampant abuse? Where's the sympathy for the other 99% of players, and their complementary world's smallest violin solo? Ranked is meant to be competitive, and not at all akin to the farm it is now... or at least I really freakin' hope not!

Anyway, truth of the matter is; DuoQ is hardly the problem, it's more of an offender. If uncoordinated SoloQ players of wild skill variety weren't forced into the same matches, it'd be absolutely fine. This could be accomplished by either holding the DuoQ until they find similar competition(Not likely as nobody wants to wait 30 minutes to an hour for a single game) or by splitting SoloQ and TeamQ. Teams versus teams ONLY Solos versus solos ONLY. It's not that wild of a concept, and it's been done before.

You want to talk about repeating past mistakes? DuoQ was already removed once for the same reasons people want it gone now, and instead of changing it up; it was just plopped back into Ranked in the same state it was in when they first removed it. A better idea would have been to look at why they removed it, what went wrong: "Too low a population for high-rated DuoQs to find any accurate competition." You could fix that by at least guaranteeing all the competition they find is at the same level of trust and coordination with their team as they are.