When did GW2 turn into a grindfest?

[Jotunhammer.7029]

I remember Guild Wars 2 being an living breathing game where you felt part of the game.Now that I return after a long absence and I start HoT I am immediatly met with "glider requirements" meaningI have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use gliders. This bodes very ill for therest of the game , oh and I have a level 80 too with PoF and got the mount, but guess what, in order to go onwards got to get tolevel 3 of that raptor mount just to get on with the questing. When did the game go from being about the storyline and the restbeing sidelines if you was interested to be a grindfest for "rep" with different things just to get onwards with a quest?Its nothing but time sinks, these "reputation grinds" that you got to get glider, mount, different level of mount etc.It does not affect the story anyway, and it it not shown in the story "Oh yeah, you have to be level 3 with flappety flapp over therein order to face the dragon"....really....

[Randulf.7614]

August 2012 since grind has existed since launch

To add further detail, these masteries were based on a community feedback idea after early seasons, so they exist because many of us asked for them

As for grind, well grind has always existed. One could argue it was worse as legendaries and rare items were harder to get when materials had extremely few sources and rewards were much worse.

The masteries aren’t much of a grind - they provide pathways and targets in the content and expand your character in a way that is better than a vertical progression (ie much bigger grind) would

[Obtena.7952]

never? I mean, what are you grinding that you need?

You see, Anet never said there would be no grind because obviously that's dumb; there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game. Anet was specifically talking about needing to grind to get access to content, either with gear grinds or unlocking content. So far, they have delivered.

So let's be honest. The game never became a grind ... you're just finding things you want that require it. If you're going to define 'gilder masteries' as grinding, I guess you should stick with FPS games or something, because that's a pretty tame 'grind' that you can achieve simply by playing the game. I guess if you're not willing to play the game, then I can see where you apply that label to it.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

meaning: I have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use glidersI confess I forgot how much that rubbed me the wrong way when HoT launched, especially since I wasn't able to play for a week or so, and ended up far, far behind my cohorts.

That said, it turns out to be easier than leveling up a new character, because it only needs to happen once per account, whereas (for example) every new ranger has to tame all their pets. It's also comparable in time to manually leveling a new character.

So while I agree that it's annoying on its face, in practice, it doesn't end up getting in your way.

[Trise.2865]

When you stopped caring about what you were doing and focused on what you were getting.

[Obtena.7952]

@Trise.2865 said:When you stopped caring about what you were doing and focused on what you were getting.

That is honestly the best answer I have ever read in relation to grinding. ANYTHING is a grind if you care more about the what you get than how you get it. If that's a barrier to someone, they should seriously rethink playing any MMO.

[Danikat.8537]

It's never been possible to focus entirely on the story and ignore the open-world stuff...at least not without using a work-around to gain the XP you'll miss. Even before they split the personal story into chapters, when you could attempt any step at any level if you did nothing else you'd quickly fall so far below the level requirement that it wasn't possible to complete it without help. Since they didn't raise the level cap when the expansions were released the masteries serve the same purpose.

IMO it makes sense to do that if you're interested in the story, because those "non critical" side stories actually tie into the main story, helping to set the scene, introduce characters and progress events so everything will make a lot more sense if you do the story and the open-world events in the same area around the same time.

Admittedly I can see how it would be frustrating if you just want to get the story finished as quickly as possible and you're not interested in the details, but in that case I'm pretty sure there are numerous guides around on how to get the masteries trained as quickly as possible. (I seem to remember people recommended the Pale Reaver's event chain around Dry Step Mesas and Shrouded Ruins to train up gliding, but I'm not sure if things have changed since HoT was released.)

[Blocki.4931]

Progression systems are extremely important to any kind of game with longevity.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Obtena.7952" said:there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game.

LOL, are you serious? Grinding is the one thing that does not keep me "interested" but annoys the heck out of me (I only do it because it is the only choice given for those things). It's a requirement I could easily do without, because what interests a fantasy role-player is adventure and story, not grinding. It's pesudo-content that merely exists to give the devs additional time to work on the real contents and to force you to spend more time in the game while you are waiting for actual content.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

I think you are under the impression that you will have to unlock gliding for every character. But thankfully, it unlocks for every character in your account.

PoF has 100% less grind as it takes less time to level up those masteries.

[Jotunhammer.7029]

@Obtena.7952 said:never? I mean, what are you grinding that you need?

You see, Anet never said there would be no grind because obviously that's dumb; there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game. Anet was specifically talking about needing to grind to get access to content, either with gear grinds or unlocking content. So far, they have delivered.

So let's be honest. The game never became a grind ... you're just finding things you want that require it. If you're going to define 'gilder masteries' as grinding, I guess you should stick with FPS games or something, because that's a pretty tame 'grind' that you can achieve simply by playing the game. I guess if you're not willing to play the game, then I can see where you apply that label to it.

never became a grind? Ummm, I played chaper 1-8 without ANY grind in personal story. The moment I switch to HoT I am met with a grind.

and as for me sticking with FPS, what kind of response is that, should I tell you to go stick your head into japanese grindfests cause you seems tolike it so much or Korean MMO that thrives on grind so much that when they tried having more content for storyline the playerbase revolted againstit. should I tell you to go live there? what kind of response.

Let me clarify you grinding cause you seem to not have a clue, doing same quest several times just to gain achivement points, thats grinding.Thats not developing anything, it is an endless hamsterwheel of going about doing same thing every single day you log in, just to get you X pointsïn whyatever you are seeking after, thats fine for those that trying to achieve something but putting such stops into storyline, is not cool.

so should I assume then that the story ends after personal storyline is over? because it seems there is a jump from that to HoT and in that it seems I have to run the hamsterwheel just to get glider working.

[Jotunhammer.7029]

@"Danikat.8537" said:It's never been possible to focus entirely on the story and ignore the open-world stuff...at least not without using a work-around to gain the XP you'll miss. Even before they split the personal story into chapters, when you could attempt any step at any level if you did nothing else you'd quickly fall so far below the level requirement that it wasn't possible to complete it without help. Since they didn't raise the level cap when the expansions were released the masteries serve the same purpose.

IMO it makes sense to do that if you're interested in the story, because those "non critical" side stories actually tie into the main story, helping to set the scene, introduce characters and progress events so everything will make a lot more sense if you do the story and the open-world events in the same area around the same time.

Admittedly I can see how it would be frustrating if you just want to get the story finished as quickly as possible and you're interested in the details, but in that case I'm pretty sure there are numerous guides around on how to get the masteries trained as quickly as possible. (I seem to remember people recommended the Pale Reaver's event chain around Dry Step Mesas and Shrouded Ruins to train up gliding, but I'm not sure if things have changed since HoT was released.)

I would rather spend gems etc on xp pots than to do grindfest to get to continue with the storyline. I hate grindfest, I hate being forced to run the hamsterwheel either for dungeons or for whatever achivement required for special flyers etc, it is the developers way of making you run around do nothing special that affects the storynothing. had it been like the isla of quel'thelas(sp?) in wow where you build the island from dailies etc it would make sense, but running around killing worms from the ground or minotaurs running amock, its making no sense. and it is detering me from the game itself

[Obtena.7952]

@Jotunhammer.7029 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:never? I mean, what are you grinding that you need?

You see, Anet never said there would be no grind because obviously that's dumb; there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game. Anet was specifically talking about needing to grind to get access to content, either with gear grinds or unlocking content. So far, they have delivered.

So let's be honest. The game never became a grind ... you're just finding things you want that require it. If you're going to define 'gilder masteries' as grinding, I guess you should stick with FPS games or something, because that's a pretty tame 'grind' that you can achieve simply by playing the game. I guess if you're not willing to play the game, then I can see where you apply that label to it.

never became a grind? Ummm, I played chaper 1-8 without ANY grind in personal story. The moment I switch to HoT I am met with a grind.

That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play ... JUST like you earn your regular levels as you go through the maps and your story. The suggestion to stick with FPS games is based on the fact that if you can't 'grind' out masteries by simply playing HoT content, then it's probably a more appropriate kind of game for you to play. Simply put, you don't have much tolerance if you can't earn masteries by just playing the game. If your mentality is that it's a grind, that's not a game problem.

I mean, the other poster said it better than I have ever seen it put: It's only grind if you focus on what you want instead of what you are doing. There is so much fundamental good truth to that statement that I'm just going to put it out here again.

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:there needs something you can grind to keep you interested in the game.

LOL, are you serious?

Well, yeah I'm serious. How do you honestly think MMO developers keep you playing the game? Just hand you everything you want after the first run through? You need to give this some thinking before you come back and challenge the idea that the survival of this genre of game DEPENDS on having things people can grind in the games. Everyone grinds ... they just don't call it that until they get tired of doing it. Only THEN do people complain it's a grind. It's all relative ... I had guildmates complain that map completion was a grind ... so they left the game.

As for the masteries in HoT ... if you simply play the game, you earn them. Is that grind? I would say that if playing the game is a problem ... well, that's not a game problem.

[Sugar Min.5834]

@"Jotunhammer.7029" said:I remember Guild Wars 2 being an living breathing game where you felt part of the game.Now that I return after a long absence and I start HoT I am immediatly met with "glider requirements" meaningI have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use gliders. This bodes very ill for therest of the game , oh and I have a level 80 too with PoF and got the mount, but guess what, in order to go onwards got to get tolevel 3 of that raptor mount just to get on with the questing. When did the game go from being about the storyline and the restbeing sidelines if you was interested to be a grindfest for "rep" with different things just to get onwards with a quest?Its nothing but time sinks, these "reputation grinds" that you got to get glider, mount, different level of mount etc.It does not affect the story anyway, and it it not shown in the story "Oh yeah, you have to be level 3 with flappety flapp over therein order to face the dragon"....really....

These are a walk in the park. Wait till you try grinding for the hovering (not flying) Skyscale.

[Jotunhammer.7029]

That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play

what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

As for the other part, I don't mind playing the game, when there is progress, I do not call hunting worms through deserts or minotaurs or whatever beats doing the same quest over and over again specially meaningful, sure it maybe easy, but its not leading anywhere more than to earn reputation points. I had enough of grind in WoW and even in the latest patch what they did was lock everything behind daily quests, could not progress anything until met a certain level in the daily quests, this is no different. I would rather have a more difficult or less rewarding levelling and have something to strive towards rather than mindless questing doing same thing every day I log it, to be honest it gets boring and boring is not what I am paying for, im paying for being entertained. Sure if I wanted some special tool or profession or gear or whatever then I can understand a certain amount of grind, but to clear the main story, its nonsense putting it behind a timelock that the achievment grind is.

also, its not just playing the game, raptor long jump require 2 more mastery points, and those mastery points can only be done by doing quests within the raptor area, are there any NEW quests, no, it is a repeat of quests done over and over again to earn the achievement points.

[Jotunhammer.7029]

@Mil.3562 said:

@"Jotunhammer.7029" said:I remember Guild Wars 2 being an living breathing game where you felt part of the game.Now that I return after a long absence and I start HoT I am immediatly met with "glider requirements" meaningI have to do quests thats are non critical and non storyline just to earn points to get to use gliders. This bodes very ill for therest of the game , oh and I have a level 80 too with PoF and got the mount, but guess what, in order to go onwards got to get tolevel 3 of that raptor mount just to get on with the questing. When did the game go from being about the storyline and the restbeing sidelines if you was interested to be a grindfest for "rep" with different things just to get onwards with a quest?Its nothing but time sinks, these "reputation grinds" that you got to get glider, mount, different level of mount etc.It does not affect the story anyway, and it it not shown in the story "Oh yeah, you have to be level 3 with flappety flapp over therein order to face the dragon"....really....

These are a walk in the park. Wait till you try grinding for the hovering (not flying) Skyscale.

I would say that is the day I switch games to a game thats not grindfest. if there are none, there is always Fallout 76, at least there when you grind you can build something of the material your grinding.

[DoRi Silvia.4159]

Definitely not a 'grindfest'I came back after 5-6 years as well and I know what you are going through with the expansions. You may think it tedious but they only ask for you to do that a few times in HoT and thats it. If you do a LFG and join a HP train or a meta train/taxi you will have that mastery point done in no time.It may be frustrating but I think you need to do it for the gliding mastery and again for mushroom bouncing and that will be it for HoT in terms of 'forced grind', and if grinding out exp for mastery points is not your thing in this game then unfortunately its not good news because the majority of the expansions will revolve around you getting exp and mastery points along with the story and it will not change because the majority is happy with how it is

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

@Jotunhammer.7029 said:there is always Fallout 76, at least there when you grind you can build something of the material your grinding.

Ironic, so you will go back to playing an FPS.

[Healix.5819]

Masteries were simply ArenaNet's alternative to increasing the level cap. They're not asking for much, they're only expecting you to play a bit of the open world content. It's really no different from leveling in the core game, except you can't simply grind to the cap this time due to mastery points (which were the solution to that problem).

@"Jotunhammer.7029" said:also, its not just playing the game, raptor long jump require 2 more mastery points, and those mastery points can only be done by doing quests within the raptor area, are there any NEW quests, no, it is a repeat of quests done over and over again to earn the achievement points.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/72hrg7/guide_to_all_40_pof_mastery_insights_sorted_by/

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You have all 4 maps in HoT, and well as all 6 maps in Season 3? Why do you have to repeat the same events?And, if you don't have Seasons 2, 3 and 4, you aren't that interested in the main storyline.

[Jotunhammer.7029]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:You have all 4 maps in HoT, and well as all 6 maps in Season 3? Why do you have to repeat the same events?And, if you don't have Seasons 2, 3 and 4, you aren't that interested in the main storyline.

Just cause I did not play in those seasons does not mean I am not interested in the main story

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, they are part of the 'main story'.
Even without Living World Season maps, there are 4 maps in HoT to play in, as well as 5 maps in PoF.
Again, no need to repeat the same event.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jotunhammer.7029 said:

That doesn't make sense. If you play the story and through the content, there is ALSO no grind in HoT because you earn the masteries as you play

what can I say, when I started over the game with my necromancer, I was not met with any grind, sure I had xp potions and food etc and leveled quite nicely.but other than that there was no grind to speak of.

What can you say? You can say you acknowledge that the grind for masteries isn't different than when you 'grinded' for levels, which you seem to have zero problem with. If leveling wasn't a grind for you, neither is getting masteries; it's the same approach for getting the XP; you simply play the game and you get the XP you need. IF anything, the limiting factor here isn't the 'grind' for the XP, it's getting the MP's.

Like I said ... if the 'grind' in GW2 is too much for you to handle, you got FPS games because you aren't going to find many MMO's where the level of tolerance you are showing for grinding would be acceptable to you.

[Ashen.2907]

@Randulf.7614 said:August 2012

Pretty much this.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Jotunhammer.7029 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:It's never been possible to focus entirely on the story and ignore the open-world stuff...at least not without using a work-around to gain the XP you'll miss. Even before they split the personal story into chapters, when you could attempt any step at any level if you did nothing else you'd quickly fall so far below the level requirement that it wasn't possible to complete it without help. Since they didn't raise the level cap when the expansions were released the masteries serve the same purpose.

IMO it makes sense to do that if you're interested in the story, because those "non critical" side stories actually tie into the main story, helping to set the scene, introduce characters and progress events so everything will make a lot more sense if you do the story and the open-world events in the same area around the same time.

Admittedly I can see how it would be frustrating if you just want to get the story finished as quickly as possible and you're interested in the details, but in that case I'm pretty sure there are numerous guides around on how to get the masteries trained as quickly as possible. (I seem to remember people recommended the Pale Reaver's event chain around Dry Step Mesas and Shrouded Ruins to train up gliding, but I'm not sure if things have changed since HoT was released.)

I would rather spend gems etc on xp pots than to do grindfest to get to continue with the storyline. I hate grindfest, I hate being forced to run the hamsterwheel either for dungeons or for whatever achivement required for special flyers etc, it is the developers way of making you run around do nothing special that affects the storynothing. had it been like the isla of quel'thelas(sp?) in wow where you build the island from dailies etc it would make sense, but running around killing worms from the ground or minotaurs running amock, its making no sense. and it is detering me from the game itself

Keep in mind that first and foremost GW2 is a game and oftentimes games have time sinks like what you are running into. Now whether or not that time sink is worthwhile or fun really is subjective per individual. Personally its not the worst thing in the world for me, it isn't a grind much less as it is just a bit of a chore.

I wouldn't classify it as "grind" because, from my own personal experience, grind is what you get when you play games like Black Desert Online where at the current soft cap level (62/63) in that game it can take maybe...a few weeks of grinding the same mob rotations for hours every day which I am personally fine with. What you have to do in GW2 is not a grind, its a chore and nothing beyond that. You can blast through what you need in a relatively short amount of time. Its an MMORPG, not a pure RPG. The only MMORPG with meaningful, good and worthwhile story content that actually translates to actual content in the game that doesn't slow you down is FFXIV. You can level purely off the main story quests and be totally fine, don't really need to touch a sidequest unless you want t over level yourself for the content. Not so much with GW2 or many other MMORPGs, wasn't even like that at the start of GW2. They have level requirements for main story missions before you could move on if you weren't already at the proper level.