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New Aquatic Fractal


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@Asum.4960 said:

@"Rednik.3809" said:If you EVER should think about group composition to just do non-CM fractal - then that fractal is made wrong and should be nerfed right away. There is no exceptions from this rule.

That's ridiculous. Also there is a major distinction between whether you
should
think about composition (which imo you should always for endgame content) or if you
must
think of a very specific composition in order to beat the content at a reasonable pace, or even at all.

Although, even if you want to adhere to that personal rule, Aquatic fully complies with it and no reasonable standard comp should struggle to clear the Fractal in a time that is in line with other normal mode Fractals.

And here we go, "reasonable standard comp" in NORMAL mode fractals, without any additional rewards or anything. This is exactly what is called "overtuned", the very definition of it - when you should apply something developed for challenging content (hard content or just speedclear) just to clear normal one in normal pace.

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@Rednik.3809 said:

@Rednik.3809 said:If you EVER should think about group composition to just do non-CM fractal - then that fractal is made wrong and should be nerfed right away. There is no exceptions from this rule.

That's ridiculous. Also there is a major distinction between whether you
should
think about composition (which imo you should always for endgame content) or if you
must
think of a very specific composition in order to beat the content at a reasonable pace, or even at all.

Although, even if you want to adhere to that personal rule, Aquatic fully complies with it and no reasonable standard comp should struggle to clear the Fractal in a time that is in line with other normal mode Fractals.

And here we go, "reasonable standard comp" in NORMAL mode fractals, without any additional rewards or anything. This is exactly what is called "overtuned", the very definition of it - when you should apply something developed for challenging content (hard content or just speedclear) just to clear normal one in normal pace.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.Any reasonable standard comp that clears all other normal Fractals in under 10 minutes will clear Aquatic in under 10 minutes, given the same quality of gear and understanding of skills and mechanics in Underwater. Not sure how that is the definition of overtuned.

Pre rework Aquatic was drastically undertuned, problematically so. Now it's in line with other Fractals.

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@Asum.4960 said:Any reasonable standard comp that clears all other normal Fractals in under 10 minutes will clear Aquatic in under 10 minutes, given the same quality of gear and understanding of skills and mechanics in Underwater. Not sure how that is the definition of overtuned.Not quite. As not all skills are available underwater. Rendering some or many builds less effective. if not useless.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Asum.4960 said:It feels like an actual Fractal now and once people adjust and come prepared with a somewhat decent underwater build to swap to, it's really not bad.

I keep hearing that every time there's a change to a fractal. And in the end what happens is always one of two things:if the difficulty remains the same, but the fractal just requires slightly different changes to the strategy, players do adjust, and eventually everything works exactly as before. No meaningful change happens.If the new version actually requires more effort/commitments, players
do not
adjust. Some of them just start skipping on that fractal from now on (and i don;t mean people dropping to a lower fractal tier - most of them actually just don't bother to do the fractal at all anymore). Average skill level of players doing it rises, but only because the least skilled ones are removed from the equation.
Not
because players got more skilled, because the improvement curve of each individual player remains unchanged - they keep improving at exactly the same rate they improved when the older version was present.

So, the end result is just a reduced population of players doing the content. But hey, at least it "feels like an actual fractal now".

What alternative do you propose? Every fractal is swim/walk to a boss and then use random skills you didn't even bother to read what they do and comfortably beat the encounter on the highest difficulty available?No, balancing to average difficulty (and not insisting on everything being exactly the same) would have been perfectly fine. It's okay of some fractals are a bit easier, just as it is okay that some are a bit harder. Instead, Anet prefers to balance
up
now, both on the difficulty and completion length scale. Remember, when each fractal was supposed to be a relatively short experience? I do, but Anet seems to have forgotten.If you want harder difficulty content there, that's what CMs are for.

Also, not touching Underwater fractal until
after
you've polished underwater combat and made it something more finished than an early beta would probably be another great idea.

When you change content that way, all you achieve is sending a message to all people that were fine with it up until now, but are no longer fine after the change. The message is "we don't want you there". That's not a good message to send to your players.

Then we maybe have population, for a time, but just like story and open world no actual enjoyable and engaging content to play with.

If people don't actually want to play the game and just get loot for menial tasks that just require time as opposed to effort, then what is the point of playing? And what do you do once you got the shinies you want if the content is just mind numbing easy and unenjoyable in of itself?I didn't consider it unenjoying. It started being that way only
after
Anet started messing with difficulty levels.

At least the people who still play after those Fractals are made more interesting and engaging are there to play and improve.And i am sure it will be more interesting and engaging for them up until the point Anet abandons fractals due to population getting too low to bother. And only then the screams will start, and everyone will be surprised.

In this case specifically, the Instabilities were causing more trouble than anything else and I gladly take a bet that most groups who struggled with it today didn't bring boon rip and condi cleanses for NPNG, Vengeance and Afflicted. That wasn't even the fractal being too difficult, just people refusing to bring appropriate tools.Well, yeah, instabilities are another problem that should be addressed. They originally were meant to offer some slight variations to fractal runs, in order to shake things up and make them more interesting. Instead those are something that has almost no impact on the top 10% of fractal runners (as those groups can pretty much ignore them). on the other hand, for average (and below average) groups, there are some instabilities that can easily turn an usual smooth run into a complete nightmare. Afflicted is near the top of that list on any fractal with more than just a few enemies.

Like before, they are another case of Anet forgetting the community doesn't consist of only highly skilled players.

Your are right . I did run the Aquatic Fractal twice the first time it was no problem whatsoever we saw it understood it and done it . The second time we had no pain no gain and I don't know what also I was this time the only one with a ascended underwater weapon and a rota for it means I don't saw the end for this run. Maybe a bit tweaking people learn it and get some equip and this works. and maybe some instabilities are really bad in this fractal

On the other hand Siren Reef is the prototype you mentioned I can't get in it with a normal T4 group the difficult of the last boss is too high for them. It is comparable with 99 cm B2 in difficulty while nothing trumps 100 cm Ark on difficulty but this on has the highest amount of simultaneous mechanics we have in the fractals and this isn't even a cm -.- . I don't know what the developers thinking that we troll them ?

About the length of fractals I know people who wanted them so long or wanted to getting dungeon feeling from them.

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I like the new changes to Aquatic fractal. It's been in need of a makeover for a long time. But it could use a lot of tweaks. Because right now it's just terrible on so many levels especially if you're pugging.

Doesn't matter if the group finally gear ascended underwater weapons, the underwater skills are badly synergized with either specs. And the CDs are quite long.Doesn't matter if every dps player deals over 18k damage, it'll still take awhile. Because boss has very high toughness.The only way I find it to clear the boss faster is to melt him with condis and epidemic for mobs.But then it was turned into a meme run with 4 scourges and 1 heal firebrand spamming aegis and quickness. :Shrug:

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