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[Raids] Why raids in GW2 stayed niched


Yasi.9065

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They should give mounts and glider skins as rewards for raids. This would drag a lot of people. I would play them. I only killed 2-3 bosses be cause I see no reason for the hassle. I would actually like to see all the bosses but I don't have the energy and time to raid 1-2 times per week for 3 hours only to fail. Sorry, there are a tons of other games out here and other stuff to do. I work 100% and want to use my free time otherwise than failing for 3h.

Hence I would love to see an LFR mode. I can see the content and don't have to think too much. Lower rewards etc. There are enough examples out there and most big franchises have difficulty settings for raids.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:They should give mounts and glider skins as rewards for raids.

woah woah waoh what do you think this is? Any other themepark mmo?

Hence I would love to see an LFR mode. I can see the content and don't have to think too much. Lower rewards etc. There are enough examples out there and most big franchises have difficulty settings for raids.

I think only wow has lfr, ff14 usually has only 2 dificulties for its endgame content one being a fairly easy jm and one being a fairly hard savage mode.

Eso also from what i understand has nm and challenge mode for some of its content.

You dont need lfr to no have 3 hours of wipes.

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@Katary.7096 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:The idea of adding multiple difficulties is to reduce the time between raid releases. If they add multiple difficulties and at the same the time it takes longer to release raids, then they shouldn't add more difficulties, as there is no point.How would that work? Surely creating more difficulties beyond the original version of the content means more work and therefore more time spent developing it. I suppose easy mode for raids increases the target audience for a raid release, meaning Anet could justify more staff working on it, which may lead to a faster release cadence.It's already ultra slow, need ways to make it faster.Agreed.No I don't, others do and have posted especially in that mega thread about raid difficulties. And the encounters they proposed where fundamentally different to the current ones, reducing every single ability to non-existence. As for me, I made a suggestion on multiple difficulties a very long time ago, even before Path of Fire was released. It's rather simple and should take very little (if at all?) development resources: stop the easier encounter version at the early phases, disregard the rest of the encounter. No changes to mechanics at all, just do the opposite of CM, remove mechanics.That sounds like you believe more than one difficulty setting is possible with Arenanet's rescources. I am confused as to why you decided to comment on my original post.

I can think of one way ... it's a simple matter of turning flags on or off for various 'bad things' that happen to you in a raid. Easy mode would have less flags set to ON.

Sure, there is some upfront work like menus for choice and loot table stuff, but once all that is figured out, the difference between a 'easy' and 'hard' raid is just a table with different things being ON and OFF and the time to implement the raid 'template' would be the same amount as hardcoding the flags to ON as it is now.

Imagine taking that even a step further ... allowing the PLAYER to choose how many and what flags they turn on or off ... now THAT is a novel idea.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:They should give mounts and glider skins as rewards for raids. This would drag a lot of people. I would play them. I only killed 2-3 bosses be cause I see no reason for the hassle. I would actually like to see all the bosses but I don't have the energy and time to raid 1-2 times per week for 3 hours only to fail. Sorry, there are a tons of other games out here and other stuff to do. I work 100% and want to use my free time otherwise than failing for 3h.

Hence I would love to see an LFR mode. I can see the content and don't have to think too much. Lower rewards etc. There are enough examples out there and most big franchises have difficulty settings for raids.

I can understand that. And i agree that some mount skins and glider skins as raid drops would go a long way to get people interested in them. Plus you should have some mounts available in game that are rewards for doing harder content. Locking everything behind paywalls instead of rewards for actually playing the content is shady at best.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:They should give mounts and glider skins as rewards for raids. This would drag a lot of people. I would play them. I only killed 2-3 bosses be cause I see no reason for the hassle. I would actually like to see all the bosses but I don't have the energy and time to raid 1-2 times per week for 3 hours only to fail. Sorry, there are a tons of other games out here and other stuff to do. I work 100% and want to use my free time otherwise than failing for 3h.

Hence I would love to see an LFR mode. I can see the content and don't have to think too much. Lower rewards etc. There are enough examples out there and most big franchises have difficulty settings for raids.

I'm quoting this because it's a great idea with a lot of potential: what if they released seasonal mount skins as rewards for raids? That would make repeating them more interesting & give the community incentive. They could even add challenges or a ranking system that offers a cooler version of the skin. With the number of mounts in the game, they could get a lot of mileage even if they reused the same texturing for a different mount.

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@"Yasi.9065" said:

1. No clear roles - no clear balancing

I think this is by far the biggest hurdle to getting people into raiding. You might get to the end game and discover that none of the weapons or skills that you enjoy have a home in a meta build, and it feels like you're playing a completely different class. You might discover that you need to go through a convoluted process to acquire Viper or Harrier gear. Or you might not do any of these things because none of it's signposted in the game itself, and instead just get mocked by people for having the gall to use a longbow and a bear or whateva other cool class fantasy you had.

I think one of the best things they could do is have some baseline decent build templates in-game to give people an idea of what their class is "expected" to do in PvE, and make all stat combos have a baseline masterwork set that's very easy and cheap to acquire that goes along with it.

Also for the idea that raiding will always be niche, I just played through FFXIV, and believe it or not it has raids that are literally required to complete the story. Some of them have relatively complex mechanics that will straight up kill you, and yet every player who makes it through the story has finished those raids. It also has a pretty vibrant raid pugging scene on the harder optional content. The players of FFXIV are not raiding super geniuses, they just aren't able to handicap themselves with builds the way that you can in GW2. (FFXIV also does some cool stuff like having a consistent visual language for raid mechanics, letting you turn off ally spell effects, and building up raid mechanics over time, but... baby steps)

And I mean it's not just raiding in GW2 -- for very similar reasons the dungeon/fractal population is anemic here compared to other MMOs.

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Is raid content meant to be anything other than niche content, though? Their fundamental idea was to make sure raids are not mandatory in any way. None of the supposed main goals require you to ever enter even single a raid. Talking about stuff like finishing the story and fully gearing yourself in the best (stat wise) gear. Thus ArenaNet may have a different view on the success of their content than those who keep drawing comparisions with raid focused games such as FFXIV or WoW. I am sure they know how to force raids into the game as a whole by making them a part of the main story and adding best-in-slot gear rewards. They simply decided against it.

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Well, they certainly didn't intend it to be niche enough that it's not worth their time to make it :P

But yeah I'm not suggesting raids should be "mandatory" or anything, just contesting the notion that they must always be niche content for 3% of hardcore players. It's possible to make accessible raid content that gets people excited because the encounters are cool and you get to play with your buddies. It sounds like Strike missions might be their attempt at this, along with a rebranding away from the "raid" name that scares people, but we shall see.

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@sigur.9453 said:

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

0 - the meta.

This is GW2, game that thrives on "Play your way" and real build diversity, especially at lvl 80 with xpacs. And it's huge fun for me. Yet often in raids it's "bring a specific build on a specific role or gtfo", not to mention "dps gestapo" apps. I wonder how often i would get kicked outta T4 fracs if my blood magic reaper was shown to have sub-optimal dps, never mind saving the group from wipes serveral times due to strong sustain and mass ressing.

Until i can do raids playing how i really like instead of how I'm ordered to, that game mode can enjoy this message:

"Dear Raids...(picture of my backside)"
                                                      yours, Krytan Butcher.

I have amazing news for you!You already can play how you want!Make your own group and you are ready to go.Have fun.

I agreee with ZeftheWicked, and the hours it needs to get a 10 ppl group is the 2nd reason to ignore raids.

So my recommendation to ANet would be: Make 5 ppl random-lfg content out of raids, or be happy with that content being mostly ignored.Or more pragmatically: leave it as it is, but don't waste further resources into raids.

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@Dayra.7405 said:

@"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

0 - the meta.

This is GW2, game that thrives on "Play your way" and real build diversity, especially at lvl 80 with xpacs. And it's huge fun for me. Yet often in raids it's "bring a specific build on a specific role or gtfo", not to mention "dps gestapo" apps. I wonder how often i would get kicked outta T4 fracs if my blood magic reaper was shown to have sub-optimal dps, never mind saving the group from wipes serveral times due to strong sustain and mass ressing.

Until i can do raids playing how i really like instead of how I'm ordered to, that game mode can enjoy this message:

"Dear Raids...(picture of my backside)"
                                                      yours, Krytan Butcher.

I have amazing news for you!You already can play how you want!Make your own group and you are ready to go.Have fun.

I agreee with ZeftheWicked, and the hours it needs to get a 10 ppl group is the 2nd reason to ignore raids.

So my recommendation to ANet would be: Make 5 ppl random-lfg content out of raids, or be happy with that content being mostly ignored.Or more pragmatically: leave it as it is, but don't waste further resources into raids.

It doesn’t take hours unless you’re doing it on the last day when everyone else has already gotten their weekly kills or you’re going for something like a CM. The prime time hours for your region also has an impact.

There’s already 5 player content through dungeons and fractals. There’s soon to be something else which will be a closer step towards raids for those struggling.

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@"Dayra.7405" said:So my recommendation to ANet would be: Make 5 ppl random-lfg content out of raids, or be happy with that content being mostly ignored.Or more pragmatically: leave it as it is, but don't waste further resources into raids.

By "Mostly ignored" you mean content that is being run weekly by dedicated players compared to entire Living World zones that are -actually- ignored by everyone and rot without players?

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dayra.7405" said:So my recommendation to ANet would be: Make 5 ppl random-lfg content out of raids, or be happy with that content being mostly ignored.Or more pragmatically: leave it as it is, but don't waste further resources into raids.

By "Mostly ignored" you mean content that is being run weekly by dedicated players compared to entire Living World zones that are -actually- ignored by everyone and rot without players?

I am sure ANet has the statistics of total player hours spend inside to quantify such statement, unfortunately I don't.I've only my impression: some dedicated raid runner, are a nearly invisible minority among all players, and I am in a thread, where it is argued that this can never change.

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