Thieves Season 18

[Kageseigi.2150]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:due to low cd shortbow 5

Alas, why does Thief balance always come down to Shortbow 5? It's lazy and cheap to force this on the Thief.

Besides, the Thief only has a single initiative pool. Without Trickery, a Thief can only use a maximum of three consecutive skills (other than Repeater) and still be able to use Shortbow 5. That is not conducive to combat at all.

How easy is it to fight and win as a Thief when you don't take Shortbow or Acrobatics even if you do take Trickery? Unfortunately, Thieves don't have a natural superior mobility which really, really hurts build versatility.

If the Thief is given separate initiative pools per weapon, then Shortbow 5 would be more of a balance issue. As it is now, the Thief really cannot fully commit to fighting if it wants to escape by the Shortbow. That's assuming they take the Shortbow, which is a safe bet, seeing that you may as well not take a Thief into PvP without it in all but the most extreme cases.

Come on, Anet! If you're going to balance the Thief around the mobility of Shortbow 5, then just make the mobility baseline so we can at least take two lesser-lethal weapon sets instead of one!

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:due to low cd shortbow 5

Alas, why does Thief balance always come down to Shortbow 5? It's lazy and cheap to force this on the Thief.

Besides, the Thief only has a single initiative pool. Without Trickery, a Thief can only use a maximum of three consecutive skills (other than Repeater) and still be able to use Shortbow 5. That is not conducive to combat at all.

How easy is it to fight and win as a Thief when you don't take Shortbow or Acrobatics even if you do take Trickery? Unfortunately, Thieves don't have a natural superior mobility which really, really hurts build versatility.

If the Thief is given separate initiative pools per weapon, then Shortbow 5 would be more of a balance issue. As it is now, the Thief really cannot fully commit to fighting if it wants to escape by the Shortbow. That's assuming they take the Shortbow, which is a safe bet, seeing that you may as well not take a Thief into PvP without it in all but the most extreme cases.

Come on, Anet! If you're going to balance the Thief around the mobility of Shortbow 5, then just make the mobility baseline so we can at least take two lesser-lethal weapon sets instead of one!

I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a bulshit, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, piss easy

[mehelpu.7160]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:due to low cd shortbow 5

Alas, why does Thief balance always come down to Shortbow 5? It's lazy and cheap to force this on the Thief.

Besides, the Thief only has a single initiative pool. Without Trickery, a Thief can only use a maximum of three consecutive skills (other than Repeater) and still be able to use Shortbow 5. That is not conducive to combat at all.

How easy is it to fight and win as a Thief when you don't take Shortbow or Acrobatics even if you do take Trickery? Unfortunately, Thieves don't have a natural superior mobility which really, really hurts build versatility.

If the Thief is given separate initiative pools per weapon, then Shortbow 5 would be more of a balance issue. As it is now, the Thief really cannot fully commit to fighting if it wants to escape by the Shortbow. That's assuming they take the Shortbow, which is a safe bet, seeing that you may as well not take a Thief into PvP without it in all but the most extreme cases.

Come on, Anet! If you're going to balance the Thief around the mobility of Shortbow 5, then just make the mobility baseline so we can at least take two lesser-lethal weapon sets instead of one!

I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

Obviously thief is the best and easiest carry class. Just main thief now, huh?

[Kageseigi.2150]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

I'm not seeing the moral of the story.

Of course Thieves can fly around the map IF they take Shortbow, Acrobatics, Roll For Initiative, and Shadowstep. That doesn't mean they can do anything useful with that speed.

That also doesn't mean that every Thief does take them all or wants to take them. Thieves only take them because they have to in order to do anything of any value in Conquest... because they can't competently fight even if they give up all mobility.

Notice you're talking about escaping with ease. Who cares about escaping if you can actually kill your enemy?

Thieves are forced into decap/+1 because they are balanced around Shortbow 5. Thief players don't want this, but if they give up the Shortbow, they gain nothing effectively useful in return.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:expecially when they are good in mid fights due to aoe spam and daggerstorm.I made lvl 1 thief ( never played it ) and made it to gold 3 with random buttom mushing, not saying gold 3 is any good but the fact is, its annoying, uninteractive, easy and effective.

Wow, I completely missed this because I was so focused on Shortbow. This right here tells me you have absolutely no idea about the Thief period. Not a single clue. Nor a shred of credibility.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@mehelpu.7160 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:due to low cd shortbow 5

Alas, why does Thief balance always come down to Shortbow 5? It's lazy and cheap to force this on the Thief.

Besides, the Thief only has a single initiative pool. Without Trickery, a Thief can only use a maximum of three consecutive skills (other than Repeater) and still be able to use Shortbow 5. That is not conducive to combat at all.

How easy is it to fight and win as a Thief when you don't take Shortbow or Acrobatics even if you do take Trickery? Unfortunately, Thieves don't have a natural superior mobility which really, really hurts build versatility.

If the Thief is given separate initiative pools per weapon, then Shortbow 5 would be more of a balance issue. As it is now, the Thief really cannot fully commit to fighting if it wants to escape by the Shortbow. That's assuming they take the Shortbow, which is a safe bet, seeing that you may as well not take a Thief into PvP without it in all but the most extreme cases.

Come on, Anet! If you're going to balance the Thief around the mobility of Shortbow 5, then just make the mobility baseline so we can at least take two lesser-lethal weapon sets instead of one!

I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

Obviously thief is the best and easiest carry class. Just main thief now, huh?

im new to the game, give me couple of months and i will main every class

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

I'm not seeing the moral of the story.

Of course Thieves can fly around the map IF they take Shortbow, Acrobatics, Roll For Initiative, and Shadowstep. That doesn't mean they can do anything useful with that speed.

That also doesn't mean that every Thief does take them all or wants to take them. Thieves only take them because they have to in order to do anything of any value in Conquest... because they can't competently fight even if they give up all mobility.

Notice you're talking about escaping with ease. Who cares about escaping if you can actually kill your enemy?

Thieves are forced into decap/+1 because they are balanced around Shortbow 5. Thief players don't want this, but if they give up the Shortbow, they gain nothing effectively useful in return.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:expecially when they are good in mid fights due to aoe spam and daggerstorm.I made lvl 1 thief ( never played it ) and made it to gold 3 with random buttom mushing, not saying gold 3 is any good but the fact is, its annoying, uninteractive, easy and effective.

Wow, I completely missed this because I was so focused on Shortbow. This right here tells me you have absolutely no idea about the Thief period. Not a single clue. Nor a shred of credibility.

none of what I said is wrong, dont have to spend 8000 hours on a class to know whats wrong or right.thief has a VERY strong mobility, if not the best, if you add strong dueling potenital it becomes a problem.you can insult or whine on forum all you want but it is how it is and i suspect it will be how it is now.you said good mobility IF shortbow and IF acro, guess what take both and be good in 1v1 anyways and thus its a problem, end of story.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

I'm not seeing the moral of the story.

Of course Thieves can fly around the map IF they take Shortbow, Acrobatics, Roll For Initiative, and Shadowstep. That doesn't mean they can do anything useful with that speed.

That also doesn't mean that every Thief does take them all or wants to take them. Thieves only take them because they have to in order to do anything of any value in Conquest... because they can't competently fight even if they give up all mobility.

Notice you're talking about escaping with ease. Who cares about escaping if you can actually kill your enemy?

Thieves are forced into decap/+1 because they are balanced around Shortbow 5. Thief players don't want this, but if they give up the Shortbow, they gain nothing effectively useful in return.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:expecially when they are good in mid fights due to aoe spam and daggerstorm.I made lvl 1 thief ( never played it ) and made it to gold 3 with random buttom mushing, not saying gold 3 is any good but the fact is, its annoying, uninteractive, easy and effective.

Wow, I completely missed this because I was so focused on Shortbow. This right here tells me you have absolutely no idea about the Thief period. Not a single clue. Nor a shred of credibility.

none of what I said is wrong, dont have to spend 8000 hours on a class to know whats wrong or right.thief has a VERY strong mobility, if not the best, if you add strong dueling potenital it becomes a problem.you can insult or whine on forum all you want but it is how it is and i suspect it will be how it is now.you said good mobility IF shortbow and IF acro, guess what take both and be good in 1v1 anyways and thus its a problem, end of story.

So basically u admit ur new to the game.Have little experience on thief or any class for that matter.Don't have enough experience on thief yet to know what the thief needs as far as positive nor negative changes, especially in regards to thief's state in relation to the other classes.Yet ur telling other players who a lot have 1000's + of hrs on not just thief but other classes as well as far more experience and knowledge of not only those classes but general game mechanics that thier whining on forums means little and what u say with what little experience u have on thief/classes and the game are right and their wrong end of story.Honestly I hope u ready that post shows u how ur post comes off as little more than I'm new and don't like fighting thieves so I'm gonna whine on forums to nerf them and any arguments are wrong and I'm right etc lol. Also u stating thief is a noob class that's easy to preform well on shows ur ignorance as thief is and has been known as one of the harder classes to perform "well" with against anything but noobs. U can even take a quick look through post regarding people's troubles surviving etc on thief in pve compared to the other classes they've used, and this is pve where most npc opponents are potatoes. I'm not saying ur wrong or right but u clearly dont have enough experience to be telling long time players their wrong and ur right end of story.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

I'm not seeing the moral of the story.

Of course Thieves can fly around the map IF they take Shortbow, Acrobatics, Roll For Initiative, and Shadowstep. That doesn't mean they can do anything useful with that speed.

That also doesn't mean that every Thief does take them all or wants to take them. Thieves only take them because they have to in order to do anything of any value in Conquest... because they can't competently fight even if they give up all mobility.

Notice you're talking about escaping with ease. Who cares about escaping if you can actually kill your enemy?

Thieves are forced into decap/+1 because they are balanced around Shortbow 5. Thief players don't want this, but if they give up the Shortbow, they gain nothing effectively useful in return.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:expecially when they are good in mid fights due to aoe spam and daggerstorm.I made lvl 1 thief ( never played it ) and made it to gold 3 with random buttom mushing, not saying gold 3 is any good but the fact is, its annoying, uninteractive, easy and effective.

Wow, I completely missed this because I was so focused on Shortbow. This right here tells me you have absolutely no idea about the Thief period. Not a single clue. Nor a shred of credibility.

none of what I said is wrong, dont have to spend 8000 hours on a class to know whats wrong or right.thief has a VERY strong mobility, if not the best, if you add strong dueling potenital it becomes a problem.you can insult or whine on forum all you want but it is how it is and i suspect it will be how it is now.you said good mobility IF shortbow and IF acro, guess what take both and be good in 1v1 anyways and thus its a problem, end of story.

So basically u admit ur new to the game.Have little experience on thief or any class for that matter.Don't have enough experience on thief yet to know what the thief needs as far as positive nor negative changes, especially in regards to thief's state in relation to the other classes.Yet ur telling other players who a lot have 1000's + of hrs on not just thief but other classes as well as far more experience and knowledge of not only those classes but general game mechanics that thier whining on forums means little and what u say with what little experience u have on thief/classes and the game are right and their wrong end of story.Honestly I hope u ready that post shows u how ur post comes off as little more than I'm new and don't like fighting thieves so I'm gonna whine on forums to nerf them and any arguments are wrong and I'm right etc lol.

take your assumptions somewhere else, not once I said that i know waht thief needs. the fact stands thief has SHITTON of mobility and now its also good at dueling, thats end of story period. not me nor developers should care what some 5-10 scrubs think that played this game for 7 years becouse their idea of balance no longer applies, if anything its invalid due to how they cant possibly look at casual players perspective, and only look to improve their own fun, without caring how it affects majority of others ( remove soloQ ) example [ also it applies to most but not everyone]. Time spent doing something is meaningless, unless you have something to show for it. who knows mb in 1 years i will have 1k hours and ill go spewing toxicity and retarded changes so that whats left of playerbase can get screwed over so that I personally can have it my way.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

I'm not seeing the moral of the story.

Of course Thieves can fly around the map IF they take Shortbow, Acrobatics, Roll For Initiative, and Shadowstep. That doesn't mean they can do anything useful with that speed.

That also doesn't mean that every Thief does take them all or wants to take them. Thieves only take them because they have to in order to do anything of any value in Conquest... because they can't competently fight even if they give up all mobility.

Notice you're talking about escaping with ease. Who cares about escaping if you can actually kill your enemy?

Thieves are forced into decap/+1 because they are balanced around Shortbow 5. Thief players don't want this, but if they give up the Shortbow, they gain nothing effectively useful in return.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:expecially when they are good in mid fights due to aoe spam and daggerstorm.I made lvl 1 thief ( never played it ) and made it to gold 3 with random buttom mushing, not saying gold 3 is any good but the fact is, its annoying, uninteractive, easy and effective.

Wow, I completely missed this because I was so focused on Shortbow. This right here tells me you have absolutely no idea about the Thief period. Not a single clue. Nor a shred of credibility.

none of what I said is wrong, dont have to spend 8000 hours on a class to know whats wrong or right.thief has a VERY strong mobility, if not the best, if you add strong dueling potenital it becomes a problem.you can insult or whine on forum all you want but it is how it is and i suspect it will be how it is now.you said good mobility IF shortbow and IF acro, guess what take both and be good in 1v1 anyways and thus its a problem, end of story.

So basically u admit ur new to the game.Have little experience on thief or any class for that matter.Don't have enough experience on thief yet to know what the thief needs as far as positive nor negative changes, especially in regards to thief's state in relation to the other classes.Yet ur telling other players who a lot have 1000's + of hrs on not just thief but other classes as well as far more experience and knowledge of not only those classes but general game mechanics that thier whining on forums means little and what u say with what little experience u have on thief/classes and the game are right and their wrong end of story.Honestly I hope u ready that post shows u how ur post comes off as little more than I'm new and don't like fighting thieves so I'm gonna whine on forums to nerf them and any arguments are wrong and I'm right etc lol.

take your assumptions somewhere else, not once I said that i know waht thief needs. the fact stands thief has kitten of mobility and now its also good at dueling, thats end of story period. not me nor developers should care what some 5-10 scrubs think that played this game for 7 years becouse their idea of balance no longer applies, if anything its invalid due to how they cant possibly look at casual players perspective, and only look to improve their own fun, without caring how it affects majority of others ( remove soloQ ) example [ also it applies to most but not everyone]. Time spent doing something is meaningless, unless you have something to show for it. who knows mb in 1 years i will have 1k hours and ill go spewing toxicity and kitten changes so that whats left of playerbase can get screwed over so that I personally can have it my way.

Yeah someone doesn't require 1000 hrs in a game to be full themselves, spout toxicity and due to complete ignorance think they know far more about a game or its classes/mechanics than players that actually do know lmao ur proof of that :)Anyway I'm not arguing with someone such as uve proven ur self to not be worth it.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Xzagr.7956 said:Just gonna put this out there but is it just me or are thieves unbelievably overpowered atm. the new rework gave them alot of dodge and evades while applying alot of conditions making even the noobist of noobs do well without much skill or effort. a skilled thief is even more dangerous now to the point they can be unstoppable its like season 15 scourge all over again.

It’s funny cuz last season everyone thought thief was unplayable still I solo as to plat3 on it and now everyone realizes that’s its op and that really good thief’s never left. Rev was just op and sword dagger damage untouched is super high now so thief is very meta

[Mouse.7382]

I hate thieves.

I REALLY HATE THIEVES.

I honestly, do.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:due to low cd shortbow 5

Alas, why does Thief balance always come down to Shortbow 5? It's lazy and cheap to force this on the Thief.

Besides, the Thief only has a single initiative pool. Without Trickery, a Thief can only use a maximum of three consecutive skills (other than Repeater) and still be able to use Shortbow 5. That is not conducive to combat at all.

How easy is it to fight and win as a Thief when you don't take Shortbow or Acrobatics even if you do take Trickery? Unfortunately, Thieves don't have a natural superior mobility which really, really hurts build versatility.

If the Thief is given separate initiative pools per weapon, then Shortbow 5 would be more of a balance issue. As it is now, the Thief really cannot fully commit to fighting if it wants to escape by the Shortbow. That's assuming they take the Shortbow, which is a safe bet, seeing that you may as well not take a Thief into PvP without it in all but the most extreme cases.

Come on, Anet! If you're going to balance the Thief around the mobility of Shortbow 5, then just make the mobility baseline so we can at least take two lesser-lethal weapon sets instead of one!

I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

This comparison's so bad. Out of initiative is like a giant, global weapon skill cooldown. That's much worse than blowing a single 20s cooldown. 10 seconds is a lifetime for a thief.

It's also like you don't play thief at all. it doesn't have a cooldown (unless you count cast and aftercast ofc).

Every skill, thief's included, has a cast and aftercast - experienced / skilled players know when to try and intercept you, either wasting stun breaks or dodge rolls. I understand the condi thief hate, but this post was just plain silly.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:due to low cd shortbow 5

Alas, why does Thief balance always come down to Shortbow 5? It's lazy and cheap to force this on the Thief.

Besides, the Thief only has a single initiative pool. Without Trickery, a Thief can only use a maximum of three consecutive skills (other than Repeater) and still be able to use Shortbow 5. That is not conducive to combat at all.

How easy is it to fight and win as a Thief when you don't take Shortbow or Acrobatics even if you do take Trickery? Unfortunately, Thieves don't have a natural superior mobility which really, really hurts build versatility.

If the Thief is given separate initiative pools per weapon, then Shortbow 5 would be more of a balance issue. As it is now, the Thief really cannot fully commit to fighting if it wants to escape by the Shortbow. That's assuming they take the Shortbow, which is a safe bet, seeing that you may as well not take a Thief into PvP without it in all but the most extreme cases.

Come on, Anet! If you're going to balance the Thief around the mobility of Shortbow 5, then just make the mobility baseline so we can at least take two lesser-lethal weapon sets instead of one!

I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

This comparison's so bad. Out of initiative is like a giant, global weapon skill cooldown. That's much worse than blowing a single 20s cooldown. 10 seconds is a lifetime for a thief.

It's also like you don't play thief at all. it doesn't have a cooldown (unless you count cast and aftercast ofc).

Every skill, thief's included, has a cast and aftercast - experienced / skilled players know when to try and intercept you, either wasting stun breaks or dodge rolls. I understand the condi thief hate, but this post was just plain silly.

He's new but knows all!

[Kageseigi.2150]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:you can insult or whine on forum all you want but it is how it is and i suspect it will be how it is now.

Even if I do insult and whine, at least I don't flat out lie.You do NOT button mash and succeed at Thief. You just don't. Not unless your name is Domino and you have luck as your superpower.

thief has a VERY strong mobility, if not the best, if you add strong dueling potenital it becomes a problem.you said good mobility IF shortbow and IF acro, guess what take both and be good in 1v1 anyways and thus its a problem, end of story.

And we go back to the mobility issue. Yes, Thief has access to mobility. If you take Shortbow and Acrobatics. Guess what? Many other professions have access to mobility also, and they can fight well on top of it. Have you seen Engineers with Swiftness/Superspeed? The only advantage Thieves have is vertical mobility.

The main issue with the Thief is that every single build choice is critical. If you build for mobility or sustain, you lose lethality. If you build for lethality, you lose mobility or sustain. While every profession deals with this, the Thief is effected the most.

You can't simply take Shortbow and Acrobatics, then all of a sudden be an effective mobile fighter. Acrobatics doesn't suit all Thieves. It's most useful for Sword Thieves or Staff Daredevils, and only because those are evasive playstyles. Dagger, Pistol, and Rifle Thieves/Deadeyes are better suited with other traitlines. The problem is that Trickery is all-but required for every Thief build, and you're heavily handicapped if you don't take it.

On top of that, in PvP Conquest, the Thief is HEAVILY reliant on its team. It doesn't matter how good your build is, you cannot overcome an organized enemy all on your own. You can't even make an even-numbered fight balanced unless the enemy has a Thief involved also.

I can definitely tell you that the Thief is not a Mid/team fighter. It lacks powerful AoE to be effective, and it doesn't have the defenses to survive enemy AoE. Daggerstorm is a "get out of jail free" card, and has only recently existed in its current form (hardly any Thief would take it before it was changed). Outside of condi builds, it's not going to win you anything by itself.

Neither are Thieves duelists. Not in Conquest. Duels take way too long, and Thieves cannot fight effectively on-point. A Thief will have to give up a point in order to kill the enemy, and that takes way too much time and gives up way too many points even if you do end up winning the fight. That's also why Thieves, normally, only decap points instead of fully capturing the point. There's usually something more important and effective you can be doing than sitting on a point waiting to capture it, especially when you're just going to have to give it up as soon as you see an enemy approaching.

Of course, these are all generalizations. But they are general for a reason... because it takes exceptional situations/opponents/players/builds to be successful outside of them.

It's absolutely fine to be a new player. But it's poor form to declare the Thief is an easy profession to play and succeed with. It is, actually, one of the most difficult. It may not be the most technical or complex, but definitely one of the most difficult. You literally have to play the same game in a different way than everybody else.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:I just played the thief and its very different.you know you are going to lose or win waaay before you throw away everything at your oponent, all it takes is roll for ini + shortbow 5 and nobody catches you.if they try you just dodge their attack get swiftness, and sb 5 again becouse it recharges SUPER fast.People complain that if they use sb to move around the map they dont have initiative, thats such a kitten, it takes 10s at MOST to recharge it all while other classes have to use 30s cooldowns tor each that speed.not too long ago i had like 3-4 fights back to back where i could escape with 1k hp from duels/ +1 WITH Ease i dont even know kite spots just spam that shortbow + dodge + whatever is off cd, kitten easy

I'm not seeing the moral of the story.

Of course Thieves can fly around the map IF they take Shortbow, Acrobatics, Roll For Initiative, and Shadowstep. That doesn't mean they can do anything useful with that speed.

That also doesn't mean that every Thief does take them all or wants to take them. Thieves only take them because they have to in order to do anything of any value in Conquest... because they can't competently fight even if they give up all mobility.

Notice you're talking about escaping with ease. Who cares about escaping if you can actually kill your enemy?

Thieves are forced into decap/+1 because they are balanced around Shortbow 5. Thief players don't want this, but if they give up the Shortbow, they gain nothing effectively useful in return.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:expecially when they are good in mid fights due to aoe spam and daggerstorm.I made lvl 1 thief ( never played it ) and made it to gold 3 with random buttom mushing, not saying gold 3 is any good but the fact is, its annoying, uninteractive, easy and effective.

Wow, I completely missed this because I was so focused on Shortbow. This right here tells me you have absolutely no idea about the Thief period. Not a single clue. Nor a shred of credibility.

none of what I said is wrong, dont have to spend 8000 hours on a class to know whats wrong or right.thief has a VERY strong mobility, if not the best, if you add strong dueling potenital it becomes a problem.you can insult or whine on forum all you want but it is how it is and i suspect it will be how it is now.you said good mobility IF shortbow and IF acro, guess what take both and be good in 1v1 anyways and thus its a problem, end of story.

So basically u admit ur new to the game.Have little experience on thief or any class for that matter.Don't have enough experience on thief yet to know what the thief needs as far as positive nor negative changes, especially in regards to thief's state in relation to the other classes.Yet ur telling other players who a lot have 1000's + of hrs on not just thief but other classes as well as far more experience and knowledge of not only those classes but general game mechanics that thier whining on forums means little and what u say with what little experience u have on thief/classes and the game are right and their wrong end of story.Honestly I hope u ready that post shows u how ur post comes off as little more than I'm new and don't like fighting thieves so I'm gonna whine on forums to nerf them and any arguments are wrong and I'm right etc lol.

take your assumptions somewhere else, not once I said that i know waht thief needs. the fact stands thief has kitten of mobility and now its also good at dueling, thats end of story period. not me nor developers should care what some 5-10 scrubs think that played this game for 7 years becouse their idea of balance no longer applies, if anything its invalid due to how they cant possibly look at casual players perspective, and only look to improve their own fun, without caring how it affects majority of others ( remove soloQ ) example [ also it applies to most but not everyone]. Time spent doing something is meaningless, unless you have something to show for it. who knows mb in 1 years i will have 1k hours and ill go spewing toxicity and kitten changes so that whats left of playerbase can get screwed over so that I personally can have it my way.

So does holo/soulbeast/warrior

[Tayga.3192]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:He's new but knows all!

That's ad hominem though, attacking him instead of the argument. You need to explain why and how he is wrong if you intend to oppose him.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:He's new but knows all!

That's ad hominem though, attacking him instead of the argument. You need to explain why and how he is wrong if you intend to oppose him.

I don't need to do anything, I'm not restating what others have already said and if u read his post anyone can clearly see why I criticized his post as I did.

[xp eke xp.6724]

as thief im fine if they remove all my evades outside of the normal dodges, but then do the same on all other professions. all other points are for me fine:

• if i stealthburst, its not a "oneshot" (a kill in under 1 second), maybe if you turn the soundoptions off so you cant hear my Death's Judgment at right time...
• as condithief i have now more tools and could posibly be a pointholder if i want to (maybe not meta, but better then before!)
• as usual im the fastest roamer on the map and can now also fit my +1 rolle better thanks to shadowportal

just immagine all professions having only dodges to reduce incomming dmg by 100%. Or what if they change the dmg reduction by 33% instead of 100%(outside of normal dodges), what if all immortals change to blocks and we add more unblockables :)

That solves the problem about a mechanic having no counterpart. Thiefes, mesmers and weavers wont feel that painfull to fight against, oh and kitting will be more relevant!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"xp eke xp.6724" said:as thief im fine if they remove all my evades outside of the normal dodges, but then do the same on all other professions. all other points are for me fine:

• if i stealthburst, its not a "oneshot" (a kill in under 1 second), maybe if you turn the soundoptions off so you cant hear my Death's Judgment at right time...
• as condithief i have now more tools and could posibly be a pointholder if i want to (maybe not meta, but better then before!)
• as usual im the fastest roamer on the map and can now also fit my +1 rolle better thanks to shadowportal

just immagine all professions having only dodges to reduce incomming dmg by 100%. Or what if they change the dmg reduction by 33% instead of 100%(outside of normal dodges), what if all immortals change to blocks and we add more unblockables :)

That solves the problem about a mechanic having no counterpart. Thiefes, mesmers and weavers wont feel that painfull to fight against, oh and kitting will be more relevant!

I guarantee u nor anyone would be playing thief if all its evades were removed leaving only two dodges if all else remained the same on the class. It would effectively remove a huge part of its playstyle and would most definitely kill the class.

[xp eke xp.6724]

@"xp eke xp.6724" said:as thief im fine if they remove all my evades outside of the normal dodges, but then do the same on all other professions. all other points are for me fine:

• if i stealthburst, its not a "oneshot" (a kill in under 1 second), maybe if you turn the soundoptions off so you cant hear my Death's Judgment at right time...
• as condithief i have now more tools and could posibly be a pointholder if i want to (maybe not meta, but better then before!)
• as usual im the fastest roamer on the map and can now also fit my +1 rolle better thanks to shadowportal

just immagine all professions having only dodges to reduce incomming dmg by 100%. Or what if they change the dmg reduction by 33% instead of 100%(outside of normal dodges), what if all immortals change to blocks and we add more unblockables :)

That solves the problem about a mechanic having no counterpart. Thiefes, mesmers and weavers wont feel that painfull to fight against, oh and kitting will be more relevant!

I guarantee u nor anyone would be playing thief if all its evades were removed leaving only two dodges if all else remained the same on the class. It would effectively remove a huge part of its playstyle and would most definitely kill the class.removing that is pretty easy. It takes two advantages in develop sides:

• you have time to see how the comunity reacts to this
• you buy time to find a better solution (like the onces i told: the dmg reduction is not 100%, change to blocks so you can play better around it)

for us players its also good:

• we have better interactions at fights
• and the "meta" changes

so you dont kill classes you kill cancer ^^

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@xp eke xp.6724 said:

@xp eke xp.6724 said:as thief im fine if they remove all my evades outside of the normal dodges, but then do the same on all other professions. all other points are for me fine:

• if i stealthburst, its not a "oneshot" (a kill in under 1 second), maybe if you turn the soundoptions off so you cant hear my Death's Judgment at right time...
• as condithief i have now more tools and could posibly be a pointholder if i want to (maybe not meta, but better then before!)
• as usual im the fastest roamer on the map and can now also fit my +1 rolle better thanks to shadowportal

just immagine all professions having only dodges to reduce incomming dmg by 100%. Or what if they change the dmg reduction by 33% instead of 100%(outside of normal dodges), what if all immortals change to blocks and we add more unblockables :)

That solves the problem about a mechanic having no counterpart. Thiefes, mesmers and weavers wont feel that painfull to fight against, oh and kitting will be more relevant!

I guarantee u nor anyone would be playing thief if all its evades were removed leaving only two dodges if all else remained the same on the class. It would effectively remove a huge part of its playstyle and would most definitely kill the class.removing that is pretty easy. It takes two advantages in develop sides:

• you have time to see how the comunity reacts to this
• you buy time to find a better solution (like the onces i told: the dmg reduction is not 100%, change to blocks so you can play better around it)

for us players its also good:

• we have better interactions at fights
• and the "meta" changes

so you dont kill classes you kill cancer ^^

A rogue character that's less evasive would require significant changes to the class design and playstyle resulting in a class that would no longer fit the rogue archetype that historically would make use of mobility,evasiveness (stealth/evades) and high bursts to be effective. Without evades are u proposing longer easier stealth access? More teleports or mobility? Maybe higher bursts and more sustain which would having it feel less like a rogue class and more like a warrior? I'm not trying to say ur idea isn't good I just don't think its plausible imo.