Best duo builds to carry games?

[H a z Z y.1762]

Curious to hear from some of the higher rated players, which duo builds are the best to carry games? It's interesting how 2 really good players can carry 3 awful players.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

generally its any two builds that complement each other in terms of mobility/ damage or point control/ bunkeriness. you could do double roamer, bunker, or one roam one bunk. it depends on enemy comp.

[Koen.1327]

2x high dmg classes so you can always kill faster than your teammates being killedholo+holo should do it but spellbreaker, rev, thief are also great

[Khalisto.5780]

@Koen.1327 said:2x high dmg classes so you can always kill faster than your teammates being killedholo+holo should do it but spellbreaker, rev, thief are also great

This

I've been recently farmed by the top 4 guy duo, holo+rev, pretty explosive

[Crab Fear.1624]

Everytime I'm put in matches against top duos, they always have one holo and either a rev, spellbreaker, and another spellbreaker.

I have seen one likes to q as a necrmacer but often swaps to holo.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Everytime I'm put in matches against top duos, they always have one holo and either a rev, spellbreaker, and another spellbreaker.

I have seen one likes to q as a necrmacer but often swaps to holo.

A lot of duos q double necro so they cannot get one on their team then They swap- holo is maybe the favorite rn and that could be 2 players but also thief and rev go really well with that some other meta ranked builds- Mesmer, spell breaker and some times power fbs (I’m actually seeing some close to top duos even going double FB but usually if that is their main)

[rowdy.5107]

just get 2 condi thieves d/d or s/d, wouldn't matter and you should have no problem carrying a team.

[Ryan.9387]

You have a few approaches. You can go with a superior 1v1er who plays a build that can 1v2. Then you pair it with a good tanky teamfighter that can stall to buy time for the side noder.

In that setup it is absolutely unacceptable for your 1v1er to die in a 1v1. Dying in a 1v2 is also bad depending on low long it takes

The other approach is to put two big damage high mobility classes together and kill quickly. Here you want to have your allies take the side points and caps as you and your partner kill extremely quickly and snowball the map.

This comp you want players who can do 30-40% of team damage solo reliably. Any less and you won't be generating the momentum you need.

First comp think stuff like:Staff thief + Blood scourge

Second think stuff like:Rev + Holo (rifle turret)

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

My personal recommendations in order of effectiveness:

Double HoloHolo + RevHolo + SBHolo + FBHolo + SLBHolo + Mirage

[crepuscular.9047]

pretty much any class with a good support firebrand, i've played a match against a good support firebrand carried his whole entire team, if he wasnt there they probably only stayed in double digit score

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:My personal recommendations in order of effectiveness:

Double HoloHolo + RevHolo + SBHolo + FBHolo + SLBHolo + Mirage

Nerf Holo

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"Ryan.9387" said:You have a few approaches. You can go with a superior 1v1er who plays a build that can 1v2. Then you pair it with a good tanky teamfighter that can stall to buy time for the side noder.

In that setup it is absolutely unacceptable for your 1v1er to die in a 1v1. Dying in a 1v2 is also bad depending on low long it takes

The other approach is to put two big damage high mobility classes together and kill quickly. Here you want to have your allies take the side points and caps as you and your partner kill extremely quickly and snowball the map.

This comp you want players who can do 30-40% of team damage solo reliably. Any less and you won't be generating the momentum you need.

First comp think stuff like:Staff thief + Blood scourge

Second think stuff like:Rev + Holo (rifle turret)

Everything he said here is on point. I'd like to add to this though, as I've noticed quite a bit this season in terms of what is required to carry games in 2019 with lower population and super goofy match making that rarely makes sense. I had started the season still trying to play as my Druid, which in previous seasons had always worked great because other people around me could actually KILL things while I was holding. But now in 2019 current season... if you are the highest rated in a match, your team needs YOU to be the one doing the killing, because chances are they won't be doing much in the way of winning combats. With the way things are now, the highest rated players in the match need to be running DPS, not support or decap sustain builds. The way this works now, the highest rated players have to be running DPS or the other higher rated players on the opposing team, will have no pressure against them, and farm the bad PUGs on your team easily.

It took me a little over 100 games this season to REALLY identify that solo/duo ranked queue is now all about kill speed, if you want to climb in rating. This method has always worked but in previous metas there were also other viable methods due to the presence of true bunker specs and the ability to 1v2 or 1v3 stall. <- This simply isn't the case anymore. The DPS in this game is now transcendent to any attempt to sustain & stall. In other words, the best possible duo setups are all based around high mobility and kill speed. They keep moving and keep killing and keep moving and killing. When 2 good players are doing this, it generally keeps 2 or 3 opponents constantly on respawn, which is what you need to do to carry a bad match.

This method as of late has become so important that I often see the better duos in the game off node nearly 75% or more of the match. This method of killing as quickly as possible is so strong, that it's beginning to out prioritize fighting on nodes, for players that know they're good. The 2 players who roam as a duo gank squad are actually helping their team more off node, than by standing on nodes. They do things such as: Engage 2v3s near an enemy spawn, Engage a FB and his Necro before they even have a chance to get back to a team fight, Obnoxiously follow the opponent's decappers and +ers around the map 100% of the time so they can't do their job. What they're doing is identifying & prioritizing which players on the opponent's team that they are going to completely neutralize and harass the entire game, regardless of where they go.

One other thing that not many people have seemed to notice, is that when kill speed is this high, those +5 points for kills begins to seriously add up by the end of a match. I've had matches against some of the better duos where my team actually has 2 nodes, but somehow the opponent team is keeping up with us. I'd be thinking: "Wtf?" and then you realize it's because the strong duo is farming your bad PUGs so quickly that they are contributing enough kill points for their team, that it is almost entirely making up for their team only having 1 node cap. This is another reason why DPS builds carry harder than sustainy team fight builds. They are able to contribute a ton of +5s for your team if the players running them are strong.

But yeah, 3x main things here to consider when forming a duo in this current meta patching:

1. The duo needs enough direct kill power to MAKE SURE it can control the flow of opponents into respawn, to alleviate pressure from bad PUGs. Being a super cool sustainy FB/Scourge duo is not enough to carry bad matches because although it feels strong where YOU are at, if you can't finish the fight quickly, your bad PUGs are probably getting curb stomped on the other two nodes, and enemies are going to snowball in at you and take that node your holding anyway. Carrying a match nowadays, is about how quickly you can kill and finish a fight, and move on to a different fight to assist bad players who can't do anything without you. And killing opponents, putting them into respawn, keeps your team 5v3 or whatever, which is the best way to defend PUGs everywhere on the map, by granting them snowball instead of allowing them to get snowballed.
2. The duo needs reliable mobility to disengage, reset, and reposition so that the duo can make sure they don't wipe and that they are always coming in hot vs. the enemies, rather than being taken by surprise when the enemy comes in hot vs. them. This is like detrimental actually. In those bad games where you can tell your PUGs are useless beyond belief, it is detrimental for the duo to wipe even once. Usually in those kinds of matches, you'll notice your team with the bad PUGs sort of keeping up maybe only behind like 100 to 80, then as soon as the duo wipes, the bad PUGs almost simultaneously wipe with them, and by the time everyone is off respawn the score will look like 160 to 80. The duo cannot afford to die when they must carry. It isn't an option. And no amount of sheer tanky defenses can ensure the duo's longevity. The duo needs reliable straight disengage & mobility.
3. The duo needs to be running classes/builds that have potential counter play vs. everything. What I mean is, the duo can't be running 2x Necros and hope to be playing high when they damn well know that they're going to get trashed against teams with double thieves or double LB Rangers. Running a duo that has counter play vs. everything is important because when you are forced to carry or lose, you don't have the luxury of "choosing which fights to take or which fights to avoid" no, you have to go and carry where it is needed, regardless of what's there. Even if it would normally be a bad idea to take the fight, there are situations in those bad matches where we know that we will lose anyway UNLESS we can win this one fight. And as such, a good duo needs to be formed around the potential to actually be able to land game changing momentum shift plays. Again, this all goes back into 1 and 2, where that large DPS is required to be able to do this, as well as the mobility to be able to kite around and survive these types of situations long enough, to bait dumb players into a bad situation where the duo has kill opportunity in some unholy 2v4 that they must take and win, or lose the game.

So what we're looking at in terms of builds that can duo & carry well, are:

1. Well played strong FB/Scourge. I stress the word "strong" because even a good FB/Scourge isn't enough to carry through very bad matches. And never use these classes as solo que, it just doesn't work unless you're swapping to a FB because a good Scourge is in your team who didn't have a FB, or vice versa.
2. Any combination of: Holo, Herald, Spellbreaker
3. Condi Mirage with Condi DrD

Not saying other duos couldn't work, but those are the strongest this season ^

[H a z Z y.1762]

@Ryan.9387 said:You have a few approaches. You can go with a superior 1v1er who plays a build that can 1v2. Then you pair it with a good tanky teamfighter that can stall to buy time for the side noder.

In that setup it is absolutely unacceptable for your 1v1er to die in a 1v1. Dying in a 1v2 is also bad depending on low long it takes

The other approach is to put two big damage high mobility classes together and kill quickly. Here you want to have your allies take the side points and caps as you and your partner kill extremely quickly and snowball the map.

This comp you want players who can do 30-40% of team damage solo reliably. Any less and you won't be generating the momentum you need.

First comp think stuff like:Staff thief + Blood scourge

Second think stuff like:Rev + Holo (rifle turret)

What trais/ultilities does one swap to become (rifle turret holo) instead of the listed metabattles (elixer rifle holo)?

[Ouk.5914]

Staff ThiefCondi ThiefProt HoloRifle HoloRev

best classes at the moment to carry rank games. Usually you want to farm the shit players so going Condi Thief+Rifle Holo is a good combo or going Rev+holo. Kills>Nodes farm the noobs and then make them rage quit.

What A LOT OF try hards do is double que a necro and then swap to a burst/mobile class to carry games. This is if you really care enough about the dead game with a leader board that doesn't mean jack shit and titles that all suck ass.

Don't put effort into rank when the reward isn't worth the effort imo. Just play something you want to get better on or have fun.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Ouk.5914 said:Staff ThiefCondi ThiefProt HoloRifle HoloRevIdk I don’t think condi thief is that good it is already bad if they have a FB and even a decent scourge can counter. Staff thief also has glaring weakness is any situation besides 1v1s unless your playing DA which makes u lose half your 1v1 match ups. I’d say rev is still really good but at the moment I think many would agree sw/d thief is an equal replacement. Not bad suggestions I’d just say some of them are more like solo q or memes builds.

[Ouk.5914]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:Staff ThiefCondi ThiefProt HoloRifle HoloRevIdk I don’t think condi thief is that good it is already bad if they have a FB and even a decent scourge can counter. Staff thief also has glaring weakness is any situation besides 1v1s unless your playing DA which makes u lose half your 1v1 match ups. I’d say rev is still really good but at the moment I think many would agree sw/d thief is an equal replacement. Not bad suggestions I’d just say some of them are more like solo q or memes builds.

Condi Thief shits on Rev and rifle holo at the moment especially if it's in rank versus noobs. I might be wrong but it also shits on Power Mirage and warriors. Theirs no reason to think Condi Thief isn't good for rank when almost everyone plays War,Holo and Mesmer. As for the fb comment MOST fb in rank are pure trash and of course if you see a fb in the team fights then maybe swap target to someone who's out of position (which happen all the time during a rank game anyway). Just because something is strong in rank does not mean it'll be strong for competitive game play like in a monthly comp or so. Anything that's easy to play, spam and roam is always going to be OP in rank.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Ouk.5914 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Ouk.5914 said:Staff ThiefCondi ThiefProt HoloRifle HoloRevIdk I don’t think condi thief is that good it is already bad if they have a FB and even a decent scourge can counter. Staff thief also has glaring weakness is any situation besides 1v1s unless your playing DA which makes u lose half your 1v1 match ups. I’d say rev is still really good but at the moment I think many would agree sw/d thief is an equal replacement. Not bad suggestions I’d just say some of them are more like solo q or memes builds.

Condi Thief kitten on Rev and rifle holo at the moment especially if it's in rank versus noobs. I might be wrong but it also kitten on Power Mirage and warriors. Theirs no reason to think Condi Thief isn't good for rank when almost everyone plays War,Holo and Mesmer. As for the fb comment MOST fb in rank are pure trash and of course if you see a fb in the team fights then maybe swap target to someone who's out of position (which happen all the time during a rank game anyway). Just because something is strong in rank does not mean it'll be strong for competitive game play like in a monthly comp or so. Anything that's easy to play, spam and roam is always going to be OP in rank.

Look I don’t have anything against condi thief- I was probably the first to suggest the current meta for it during streams I did with friends in HoT that averaged 200-300 viewers. Yes sometimes I go condi thief knowing the other teams FB will not be fully effective, but usually these matches are still close because I’m not effective either in team fights. Condi thief can 1v1 many things when in close range, hence why swipe is viable on it. The problem with it is that without acro u are easily burst. For example, a lot of times a team with 2 condi thief loses to one with 2 core sw/d because immediately when focused- Done and they just clear cripple and decap the node you worked hard to get. Condi thief just isn’t as viable as you think it is in team play or ranked as long as it is less than core sw/d.

[Aeolus.3615]

2 Holos or 2 scourges 2 mesmers

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Aeolus.3615 said:2 Holos or 2 scourges 2 mesmers

I dont think 2 mesmers would be gr8, they cana get hard shutdown by reflect/cleanse, so 1 competent Firebrand could shut down entire mid for you 2.

[Ryan.9387]

@H a z Z y.1762 said:

@Ryan.9387 said:You have a few approaches. You can go with a superior 1v1er who plays a build that can 1v2. Then you pair it with a good tanky teamfighter that can stall to buy time for the side noder.

In that setup it is absolutely unacceptable for your 1v1er to die in a 1v1. Dying in a 1v2 is also bad depending on low long it takes

The other approach is to put two big damage high mobility classes together and kill quickly. Here you want to have your allies take the side points and caps as you and your partner kill extremely quickly and snowball the map.

This comp you want players who can do 30-40% of team damage solo reliably. Any less and you won't be generating the momentum you need.

First comp think stuff like:Staff thief + Blood scourge

Second think stuff like:Rev + Holo (rifle turret)

What trais/ultilities does one swap to become (rifle turret holo) instead of the listed metabattles (elixer rifle holo)?

Drop elixer s for rifle turret. Take protection injection.

Then you have some optional variations.Mortar kit and resistance rune (optional seeker rune)Prime light beam and leadership

Vent exhaust vs the 3x heat bar trait.

Your goal is push as much damage as possible out without becoming too glassy to survive.

[Lighter.5631]

FB+anything damage orientated(roamer or duelist)having a good fb pretty much secure your team fights.and having a good duelist secure your side nodes or a roamer to support your team on side node and mid node

[H a z Z y.1762]

@Ryan.9387 said:

@H a z Z y.1762 said:

@Ryan.9387 said:You have a few approaches. You can go with a superior 1v1er who plays a build that can 1v2. Then you pair it with a good tanky teamfighter that can stall to buy time for the side noder.

In that setup it is absolutely unacceptable for your 1v1er to die in a 1v1. Dying in a 1v2 is also bad depending on low long it takes

The other approach is to put two big damage high mobility classes together and kill quickly. Here you want to have your allies take the side points and caps as you and your partner kill extremely quickly and snowball the map.

This comp you want players who can do 30-40% of team damage solo reliably. Any less and you won't be generating the momentum you need.

First comp think stuff like:Staff thief + Blood scourge

Second think stuff like:Rev + Holo (rifle turret)

What trais/ultilities does one swap to become (rifle turret holo) instead of the listed metabattles (elixer rifle holo)?

Drop elixer s for rifle turret. Take protection injection.

Then you have some optional variations.Mortar kit and resistance rune (optional seeker rune)Prime light beam and leadership

Vent exhaust vs the 3x heat bar trait.

Your goal is push as much damage as possible out without becoming too glassy to survive.

What about taking static discharge?

[Ryan.9387]

@H a z Z y.1762 said:

@Ryan.9387 said:

@H a z Z y.1762 said:

@Ryan.9387 said:You have a few approaches. You can go with a superior 1v1er who plays a build that can 1v2. Then you pair it with a good tanky teamfighter that can stall to buy time for the side noder.

In that setup it is absolutely unacceptable for your 1v1er to die in a 1v1. Dying in a 1v2 is also bad depending on low long it takes

The other approach is to put two big damage high mobility classes together and kill quickly. Here you want to have your allies take the side points and caps as you and your partner kill extremely quickly and snowball the map.

This comp you want players who can do 30-40% of team damage solo reliably. Any less and you won't be generating the momentum you need.

First comp think stuff like:Staff thief + Blood scourge

Second think stuff like:Rev + Holo (rifle turret)

What trais/ultilities does one swap to become (rifle turret holo) instead of the listed metabattles (elixer rifle holo)?

Drop elixer s for rifle turret. Take protection injection.

Then you have some optional variations.Mortar kit and resistance rune (optional seeker rune)Prime light beam and leadership

Vent exhaust vs the 3x heat bar trait.

Your goal is push as much damage as possible out without becoming too glassy to survive.

What about taking static discharge?

Yeah do that, other options are pretty bad.