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Do you think the PVP has way too steep learning curve and it is dropping population cause of it ?


Vancho.8750

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@"StevieB.7495" said:Bad player here: I play PvP on occasion with my gf and we both agree. It's not the getting "rolled" aspect that keeps us from playing, it is the constantly being called F----- and Re---- and the occasional N-----. We don't care about losing, its a fast-paced hack N slash game revolving around instant damage, that's gonna happen. It's the hateful environment that keeps us from queuing again.

Dont mind the toxic ones. There are good people too :)

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@Vancho.8750 said:I wonder if the POF speck were made in mind to be easier to play but that ended in reverse and made the game way too fast and overloaded. No one likes conditions, no one likes getting rag dolled, no one likes to get killed under 3 seconds but here we are, and people thought that Hot Elites were powercrept.

I think PoF classes were designed either because the devs just liked the idea/design or with PvE raids in mind. Same goes for HoT specs.. If you think about it all classes are either full support or full damage.. Perfect for raids but awful in PvP. Deadeye for example is just 100% damage with easy stealth access for maximum DJ spam aka max dps but has literally nothing else so it's awful in PvP unless everybody's just sitting there without paying attention. Same goes for scourge but with AoE condi spam. And to keep them alive in raids they introduced firebrand.HoT specs even more so.. everyone either got a supreme dps or support spec depending on which one the core spec was lacking (back in 2014 ofc, you can't compare powercrept specs today with back then.. back then 10k backstab crit combo from thief was op burst damage, now it's pretty much average sustained dps by most classes)

So in my opinion PvE destroyed and still destroys sPvP/WvW balance.. just think about condi changes.. Nobody asked for removing a cap for condi stacks, especially not burning or something.. this design choice is just awful and terrible for PvP scenarios but was mandatory when HoT introduced raids because bosses had way too much hp and power damage was too powerful in comparison so they had to change that.Also Anet completely refused to split skills and stuff between game modes back then and we have to endure the consequences still today imo

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@Interpretor.3091 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Hm, I always considered the "problem" in this the regard to the fact that players want to do 360-no-scope 10-man killstreaks in 10 seconds so they can feel cool, when in fact GW2 sPvP is far more complex on a tactical and strategical level because they need to control an entire map, requiring people to think. And thinking hurts.

I wouldn’t boil it down to this, Mmo players want a challenging learning curve, thats why they play Mmos. People want to be challenged and a good learning curve is important and keeps people invested for long periods of time too.The players that have PvPd from the beginning stick with this game because they have invested so much time to learning.Similarly, League of Legends has like what, 40-50 champions now? 100s of different items, runes, and skill trees. Learning curve is just as hard imo. Difference is population and lack of resources to learn for new players. LoL (riot games) provides a plethora of tutorials and also has the population to back it up. MM is better also much better due to population, community tutorials are more available, etc.

People want to be challenged and learn, but they need the resources to do it. Anet needed to take the first steps years ago to provide this, and then the playerbase would make up the rest. Riot games was constantly making tutorials for their new characters. Now community content creators and sites like Op.gg and proguides.com make up the rest. Who do we have in Gw2 that actually makes tutorial/learning content for PvP? Shorts? Jawgeous? They both quit doing it I think.

Side note: League of Legends has well over 100 characters now. I know they released the 100th one like 4 years ago.

My $.02 - I think sPvP is kind of "blurry" unless you reach a certain skill threshold. Most players can't really tell what's happening aside from "I'll go to this point and fight these guys here". Dying/going down is a huge setback but the game doesn't really make it feel like one. To compare it to League, as you previously mentioned, the game has a very isolated laning phase, with clear determinants of how well you're doing, well-defined, timed, objectives, and a distinct transition to a teamfighting phase. Granted that stronghold is an abomination, I think sPvP lacks in both the initial attraction and player retention because for a lot of players you may as well be sitting in the FFA pit without a clue.

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Maybe,but it could also be that after learning and passing the "curve" what they see is not to their taste.You can add all the tutorials in the world,in the end bs will still be bs.In it's current state I don't see how more players would be enticed to stick with it and if Anet for somereason found the will to actually improve the combat to something a bit less brain damaging and add more
game modes etc they would probably end up upseting the already loyal followers of sPvP.So curve or not curve the future of sPvP is pretty much set in stone.

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This game doesn't have a learning curve: it has a big curtain and a plateau. There are a plethora of guides which reveal the secret machinations of high-level GW2 gameplay. That is to say that pulling back the curtain on GW2's meta only requires one to be functionally literate. The problem with GW2 PvP is not that it's learning curve is too steep; quite the contrary: it's skill ceiling is too low and levels off so quickly that it doesn't hold people's interest (either from a player or spectator perspective). It's a problem with the gameplay cycle.

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The true charm of GW2 is having builds that are obscure yet able to kill the meta, meta being the lowest skill ceiling when it comes to real world use because those will always feature the easiest options with the least weaknesses while obscure builds being not optimal, in proper hands can still work given the plays people can pull off with them.

GW2 is a special game that doesn't use too much RNG, but neither has enough physical input involved for things like aimbots to work. At best, scripts is the only thing people can really cheat with and that is not something unbeatable. I've been loving the game mostly because I can know that when I die it's 99% on my mistakes/decisions while the builds will show their glaring weaknesses to work around with, which is where evades come into play along the rest.

Yes, some builds have clear counters but as an example from CS, that's like giving someone an AWP while giving the other a Glock, you know who has the obvious chance to win but there's always the user mistake and clever plays.

Capture the flag could be added on existing maps, Team Deathmatch as well as FFA for fun, not competitive as killing is not enough of an objective in a game where it's easy to dominate.

Stronghold is strange but not bad either, it could use some changes.

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I think it's less of a learning curve issue and more an issue of overblown elite-specs that can do too much at once.If people constantly die to Mirages with what feels like permanent stun, permanent evade and almost instant burst down, they either suck it up for rewards or leave the game mode.If people constantly die to Scourges who can heal/barrier from almost zero to full WHILE bursting you down with conditions (why conditions are able to burst in the first place is beyond logic), they either suck it up for rewards or leave the game mode.If people die to insert any Thief build here that can burst them down in a few seconds or run away in stealth to heal full and then burst again, they either suck it up for rewards or leave the game modes.

I already give up internally when I see two or more Scourge/Mirage/any-thief-spec on the enemy team.Too me, there simply is no learning curve, when I know I can't prevent it anyway.

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