Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Raids Are Too Difficult, Create Easy Modes


Recommended Posts

My question: when you went to school for the first time could you multiply numbers from 1 to 20? And now is that any problem?Yes, if you dont try raids they are hard. But if they would be easy when you try for first time then they would be so boring when you do them for 5th time. There is no special reward (outside of skins) from raids. Most raiders do them because they enjoy them. And they enjoy them because they are not easy. Changing dificulty would be vad for the gamemode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 125
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

Anet only expects about 10-20% of players to participate in raids. They are designed as "challenging group content," i.e. not for everyone.

Given that today Anet announced they are putting a new Strike missions into the game with raid boss like mechanics to introduce people to raid bosses, suggests they want more people to get into them,

In saying that they also stated that people find it difficult to get into them, or cant find 10 players etc, would have been the best time to introduce, Easy Mode, Normal Mode and Hardmode, and adjust rewads to suit, that would allow people to get into them, raids themselves are not that hard, its just mechanics, but people fear that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ok I Did It.2854 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

Anet only expects about 10-20% of players to participate in raids. They are designed as "challenging group content," i.e. not for everyone.

Given that today Anet announced they are putting a new Strike missions into the game with raid boss like mechanics to introduce people to raid bosses, suggests they want more people to get into them,That's a change in policy/planning. Which might (or might not) be to the benefit of the game overall.Doesn't change what they expected when HoT launched: we had ~15% participation in raids and ANet said they were happy with better-than-expected results.

Keep in mind my statement was a response to the OP wondering how their guild was expected to play raids. I wasn't making a blanket statement about whether ANet would ever change their mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think strikes are just there to hand out more group content because endless map grinding won't hold the community together in the game. Side effect will be that some players here and there will eventually join the real raids but I don't think it's their main intention with them. Open world content is just dull if we look at the maps from the past so it makes sense to unite players into smaller groups/squads. They are way more charming than map squads and the strikes will be less stressful like announced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"zealex.9410" said:What i read from it is that strikes will replace raids.

More like they will bridge the gap. I expect them to be something similar to the Freezie Wintersday mini-raid, both in difficulty AND the length. To be honest, it will be a great opportunity for those asking for easier modes for the "actual" Raids to go and do the Strikes and prove to Arenanet that they are worth the effort. Who knows, if these Strikes prove to be massively popular maybe they'll add different Raid difficulties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strikes sound like the direction they should have taken regarding difficult content from the very start - only, instead of positioning them as "raid starters," actually give them multiple difficulties ranging from starter to eye bleeding hard. Single encounter, difficult content (scaled for inclusive reasons) that ties directly to the story would have been likely easier to maintain and deliver on a regular basis. Imagine one or two with each living story update rather than the packaged "raids" once every 9 months. It just fits better with the model they use.

I doubt they are replacing raids, but I can pretty much guarantee they are using the same development resources as raids, meaning they will likely impact the pacing of that content. It's time to stop this halfway way of doing things and actually commit to integrating hard content into GW2 in a meaningful way - a way that fits with the ongoing development model they are using in the living world (and hint - raids are not that - they are the same antiquated model every other MMO has done, only without many of the elements those games used to keep them relevant - eg, tiered difficulties and story tie ins).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally think Strike Missions are going to help serve as an entry point for raids. Which is a very good and elegant solution for the mode to gain new adherent.

Now obviously hardcore players are going to say "But we dont want that, that's too easy, where is our good stuff" Think of it as a long term investment. If they successfully manage to jumpstart Raid Interest, then they are more than likely going to invest more effort to satisfy a growing trend. Which incidentally means more Raid content down the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

Anet only expects about 10-20% of players to participate in raids. They are designed as "challenging group content," i.e. not for everyone.

Given that today Anet announced they are putting a new Strike missions into the game with raid boss like mechanics to introduce people to raid bosses, suggests they want more people to get into them,That's a change in policy/planning. Which might (or might not) be to the benefit of the game overall.

This.

Strikes as they were described mean the following if read within context:

  • Arenanet do not plan for easy mode raids any time soon (or multiple difficulties), at least not for the current raids and potential future raids
  • there might not be future raid content if strikes are their direct replacement
  • strikes as more accessible but potentially required content are shifting this games overall focus on more raid like content. This is a two edged sword. If it pays off and more players are encouraged/trained for more challenging content, great. If not, there goes a lot of resources down the drain.

Strike missions could be similar to the arena event during Dragonbash. Then have them continually increase in difficulty for better rewards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Anet only expects about 10-20% of players to participate in raids. They are designed as "challenging group content," i.e. not for everyone.

Given that today Anet announced they are putting a new Strike missions into the game with raid boss like mechanics to introduce people to raid bosses, suggests they want more people to get into them,That's a change in policy/planning. Which might (or might not) be to the benefit of the game overall.

This.

Strikes as they were described mean the following if read within context:
  • Arenanet do not plan for easy mode raids any time soon (or multiple difficulties), at least not for the current raids and potential future raids
  • there might not be future raid content if strikes are their direct replacement
  • strikes as more accessible but potentially required content are shifting this games overall focus on more raid like content. This is a two edged sword. If it pays off and more players are encouraged/trained for more challenging content, great. If not, there goes a lot of resources down the drain.

Strike missions could be similar to the arena event during Dragonbash. Then have them continually increase in difficulty for better rewards.

Sounds like a 10 man instance world boss to me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It just looks like GW2 PvE is going back to it's roots. So it will be accessible to everyone again. It's time to accept this fact. Gw2 is not raiding mmo and it looks like it won't be. It's too late for it. Imo "strike missions" will be really fun for many GW2 PvErs.

When players will get bored of "strike missions" someday, then Arena Net will again come up with something new then. It's their idea on doing pve in Guild Wars 2. It was always like that. You never know what's next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Linken.6345 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?Chance of actually completing the content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Linken.6345 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?

Experience.

Most experienced raiders are either not going to join the group because of the noobs or they'll take over the group entirely and demand people kick out those who they deem a burden.

I've attempted my own squads on several occasions and more often than not it's half an hour standing around waiting and not enough people joining.The only time i've successfually managed to get a raid group is by organizing with a group of friends which took a significant amount of time and effort due to timezones and real life obligations.

Without a decent amount of raiding experience it's nearly impossible to find a pug group, let alone one that knows what it's doing as stands a chance.

The Wintersday raid was far friendlier to the wider Gw2 playerbase and a very good introduction to raid like content.The Raid group I managed to get together only did so because of that Wintersday Raid, so these Strike missions seem like a great stepping stone to getting more people interested in raids, and if not then i'll be content with more strike missions lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if some asian kid could control the boss , from his smartphone , while he plays ''hack and slash''!Or looking from the boss back (3rd person view) , limiting his view and seeing some mini shadows as opponents ?(even if its a GW2 boss or BnS World Boss or Lineage Dungeon Boss , or simply facing Npcs

In his screen he is doing a campaing//playing god of war with his son attreus/shadow of murder //trickster shapeswift god //playing as a mischief Okami Tha posses Npcs and trip down players in a Watered down form of the ingame gw2 or leaping through various ncsoftgames//as a player's pet or go in his body fighting infections and offering buffs or improving-replacing the player attacks-spells. And reading some lines in the walls, from the bio the possessed player have wrote for his character/transforming into toaster that generate more hype and it will destroyed... Soon/going from 1 place to the ''endgoal'' to get his loot , while a red circle limiting /forcing his to fight the raiders/ppl (when they start attacking the Npc Bossin their own game))At 20% of the Boss HP , the player disconect from the Raid and he face Npcs to get his daily reward/get to endgame.Or the player can call upon the Power of Tyrannia , if the fight is unfavored to him /reducing the rewards he get in the end , that kills all players is his schreen or empowering with huge amount of energy for 10 sec (teleporting out of the raids in the end) and keep doing his own NPC slaghuter till the endgoalWhile the Raiders face an 20% Enraged+buffed up Normal NPC boss , to get their own reward

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?

Experience.

Most experienced raiders are either not going to join the group because of the noobs or they'll take over the group entirely and demand people kick out those who they deem a burden.

First mistake, you are not experienced raiders so why are you expecting experienced raiders to join your PUG group?

@Teratus.2859 said:I've attempted my own squads on several occasions and more often than not it's half an hour standing around waiting and not enough people joining.The only time i've successfually managed to get a raid group is by organizing with a group of friends which took a significant amount of time and effort due to timezones and real life obligations.

and yet there is constantly people who have posted how they have successfully started raiding. Most of them used guilds or training discords to learn the fights. I guess this comes down to: some people are able, and some are not.

@Teratus.2859 said:

Without a decent amount of raiding experience it's nearly impossible to find a pug group, let alone one that knows what it's doing as stands a chance.

PUG groups are not for inexperienced raiders. Never have been. This has been explained often by now.

@Teratus.2859 said:The Wintersday raid was far friendlier to the wider Gw2 playerbase and a very good introduction to raid like content.The Raid group I managed to get together only did so because of that Wintersday Raid, so these Strike missions seem like a great stepping stone to getting more people interested in raids, and if not then i'll be content with more strike missions lol

Unless the strike missions are to difficult for you I assume. We don't have any referance of how difficult the strike missions will actually be.

Anyway, this has been discussed so often, it seems there is a very resilient part of the player base which neither wants or is capable of joining guilds or raid trainings but at the same time expects raids to be accessible to them at absolute lack of experience.

Strikes will not make existing raids magically easier. The requirements in experience for success will not drop. The only thing which might happen is that more inexperienced players are temporarily interested in raid content (remains to be seen) which would ease the creation of practice groups via the LFG. Practice groups are not easy and even harder when comprised completely of inexperienced players. The net result to get into actual raids will remain the same: use the proper approach (mostly outside of PUG anf LFG groups), practice, practice, practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Xar.6279" said:It just looks like GW2 PvE is going back to it's roots. So it will be accessible to everyone again. It's time to accept this fact. Gw2 is not raiding mmo and it looks like it won't be. It's too late for it. Imo "strike missions" will be really fun for many GW2 PvErs.

When players will get bored of "strike missions" someday, then Arena Net will again come up with something new then. It's their idea on doing pve in Guild Wars 2. It was always like that. You never know what's next.

It's not going back to the roots. What means "again"? At release and all the years afterwards there has always been content not accessible to everyone. Early dungeons, then different dungeon paths and whole ones (Arah, CoE) + lvl 80 fractals, then fractals, after HoT T4 fractals + raids + CMs for both.People always forget the past too easily. Before HoT the most complaints were that people weren't taken into dungeon groups because they refused play zerker stats and didn't have enough AP (ridiculous requirement, we all know but still). Not to speak about necromances + (mostly bear-bow) rangers. Even if you wanted to as a non-ambitious player you had a hard time succeeding in dungeons that weren't ez pz farm mode like overhauled AC, CoF, TA. Nothing has changed or will change. They didn't announce stopping raid or fractal releases they just introduced an additional thing to make LS more interesting hopefully and not the same grind-only stuff on the maps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?

Experience.

Most experienced raiders are either not going to join the group because of the noobs or they'll take over the group entirely and demand people kick out those who they deem a burden.

First mistake, you are not experienced raiders so why are you expecting experienced raiders to join your PUG group?

Two main reasons.

  1. Because a large number of the playerbase is typically friendly, helpful and willing to team up with inexperienced players and help them.
  2. Because experienced raiders make up almost 100% of the raiding community.

Unfortunately though the raid community is a lot more restrictive than the rest of the PvE game and that's made it very difficult for a lot of people to get into, hence it's small population problem.

@Teratus.2859 said:I've attempted my own squads on several occasions and more often than not it's half an hour standing around waiting and not enough people joining.The only time i've successfually managed to get a raid group is by organizing with a group of friends which took a significant amount of time and effort due to timezones and real life obligations.

and yet there is constantly people who have posted how they have successfully started raiding. Most of them used guilds or training discords to learn the fights. I guess this comes down to: some people are able, and some are not.

More some people are lucky and some are not.As I said I did get a group together once and we beat our first raid easily enough despite no experience with the boss or it's mechanics.With the 10 man limit on Raid squads there is only a limited amount of space available for the noobs, even in raid guilds there will always be those that just can't get in.My main guild has 6 different raid squads and it's very difficult trying to get in them even for training runs.

Without a decent amount of raiding experience it's nearly impossible to find a pug group, let alone one that knows what it's doing as stands a chance.

PUG groups are not for inexperienced raiders. Never have been. This has been explained often by now.

This is the very same need experience for a job but need a job to get the experience paradox lol.

@Teratus.2859 said:The Wintersday raid was far friendlier to the wider Gw2 playerbase and a very good introduction to raid like content.The Raid group I managed to get together only did so because of that Wintersday Raid, so these Strike missions seem like a great stepping stone to getting more people interested in raids, and if not then i'll be content with more strike missions lol

Unless the strike missions are to difficult for you I assume. We don't have any referance of how difficult the strike missions will actually be.

Anyway, this has been discussed so often, it seems there is a very resilient part of the player base which neither wants or is capable of joining guilds or raid trainings but at the same time expects raids to be accessible to them at absolute lack of experience.

Strikes will not make existing raids magically easier. The requirements in experience for success will not drop. The only thing which might happen is that more inexperienced players are temporarily interested in raid content (remains to be seen) which would ease the creation of practice groups via the LFG. Practice groups are not easy and even harder when comprised completely of inexperienced players. The net result to get into actual raids will remain the same: use the proper approach (mostly outside of PUG anf LFG groups), practice, practice, practice.

Unlikely, Raids are not that all that difficult once you know what to do and what you need to avoid.A fair number of raid bosses rely on moderatly easy to avoid insta kill mechanics and a combination of time limits and super spongy Hp bars, once you're familiar with avoiding those insta kills that challenge diminishes rapidly and I've heard that claim from many raiders over the years.

I'm not a Gw2 noob, i've played for years, solo'd a fair amount of the games more difficult PvE group content.Im a competent player so the "difficult" aspect of raiding is not the problem, it's finding a group that's the hardest part.That's what strike missions are hopefully going to remedy by being more accessable to more players which may or may not increase the player base of the raiding community too which will again be a good thing for the game.Raids only appeal to a very small community of players right now so one could easily argue that Anet is wasting a lot of time and resources even making that content.If strike missions help bring more players to raids then that's a win for both raiders and non raiders alike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?

Experience.

Most experienced raiders are either not going to join the group because of the noobs or they'll take over the group entirely and demand people kick out those who they deem a burden.

First mistake, you are not experienced raiders so why are you expecting experienced raiders to join your PUG group?

Two main reasons.
  1. Because a large number of the playerbase is typically friendly, helpful and willing to team up with inexperienced players and help them.

Which experienced raiders do when they lead training runs or specific runs for introducing new players to this content. While doing their own clears, they just want success.

  1. Because experienced raiders make up almost 100% of the raiding community.

Unfortunately though the raid community is a lot more restrictive than the rest of the PvE game and that's made it very difficult for a lot of people to get into, hence it's small population problem.

True, the rest of the game requires a lot less organization and provides near no challenge. The issue with rewards for challenging content, it breeds exclusion because failure means no reward.

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I've attempted my own squads on several occasions and more often than not it's half an hour standing around waiting and not enough people joining.The only time i've successfually managed to get a raid group is by organizing with a group of friends which took a significant amount of time and effort due to timezones and real life obligations.

and yet there is constantly people who have posted how they have successfully started raiding. Most of them used guilds or training discords to learn the fights. I guess this comes down to: some people are able, and some are not.

More some people are lucky and some are not.As I said I did get a group together once and we beat our first raid easily enough despite no experience with the boss or it's mechanics.With the 10 man limit on Raid squads there is only a limited amount of space available for the noobs, even in raid guilds there will always be those that just can't get in.My main guild has 6 different raid squads and it's very difficult trying to get in them even for training runs.

That's unfortunate. I guess this is guild unique. We have regular training runs, but often lack players who are willing to commit or even try raids.

@Teratus.2859 said:

Without a decent amount of raiding experience it's nearly impossible to find a pug group, let alone one that knows what it's doing as stands a chance.

PUG groups are not for inexperienced raiders. Never have been. This has been explained often by now.

This is the very same need experience for a job but need a job to get the experience paradox lol.

No it's not. PUG raids are job postings for people with experience in the job. Training runs (from guilds, dircord or LFG) are for inexperienced players. People keep confusing this because they assume that the ease of joining raids is synonymous with ease of content completion. It is in fact the opposite: ease of group creation means more demand on individual skill since this content is made for organized groups.

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:The Wintersday raid was far friendlier to the wider Gw2 playerbase and a very good introduction to raid like content.The Raid group I managed to get together only did so because of that Wintersday Raid, so these Strike missions seem like a great stepping stone to getting more people interested in raids, and if not then i'll be content with more strike missions lol

Unless the strike missions are to difficult for you I assume. We don't have any referance of how difficult the strike missions will actually be.

Anyway, this has been discussed so often, it seems there is a very resilient part of the player base which neither wants or is capable of joining guilds or raid trainings but at the same time expects raids to be accessible to them at absolute lack of experience.

Strikes will not make existing raids magically easier. The requirements in experience for success will not drop. The only thing which might happen is that more inexperienced players are temporarily interested in raid content (remains to be seen) which would ease the creation of practice groups via the LFG. Practice groups are not easy and even harder when comprised completely of inexperienced players. The net result to get into actual raids will remain the same: use the proper approach (mostly outside of PUG anf LFG groups), practice, practice, practice.

Unlikely, Raids are not that all that difficult once you know what to do and what you need to avoid.A fair number of raid bosses rely on moderatly easy to avoid insta kill mechanics and a combination of time limits and super spongy Hp bars, once you're familiar with avoiding those insta kills that challenge diminishes rapidly and I've heard that claim from many raiders over the years.

I'm not a Gw2 noob, i've played for years, solo'd a fair amount of the games more difficult PvE group content.Im a competent player so the "difficult" aspect of raiding is not the problem, it's finding a group that's the hardest part.

You won't believe how often I have heard this line. No offence, but I have yet to see ANY player who is good at this game when they transition to raids, and I have seen many new players start raiding. The best one can hope for is players who are experienced in challenge mode fractals, but even they will underperform initially.

Friendly advice: assume you are bad at the game and need to improve because in reality, thre is a very high probability that you are, just like every other new raider before you. We all started as useless plebs because there is absolutely no content in this game which prepares one for raids. Very easy to check btw: go and do some golem training and see if you are hitting 90% snowcrows benchmark. If you do, then you are at least semi prepared and only lack boss mechanics. If you don't, well then you know where you stand as far as experience goes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...