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Potential Future Balance Changes


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Guardian

Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires. <--- Useless skill gets a useless upgrade? Don't careTome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE. <--- This is fairTome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis. <--- This is completely out of line and guts the FB as a classTome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation. <--- This is completely out of line and guts the FB as a class

  • Would your gameplay change as a result? <--- Yes, would be the last nail in the WvW coffin for me.
  • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game? <--- The proposed "changes" give a feeling that whoever came up with them never played WvW and are just random. Balance issue exists in WvW, but it's not the reason why the players are abandoning the game mode. It's the lack of any new content and the "promise" of alliances that has yet to come after over a year.
  • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?<--- No
  • What are your concerns with this set of changes? <---- Already answered/
  • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes? <--- Just like sPvP - fewer players and in the end - a dead game mode. GJ
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@Vova.2640 said:

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. - I suggest leaving the gyro as it is and nerf Purity of Purpose trait instead. And Also take a look at antitoxin rune. Too many synergies there.

Disagree. Nerfing the number of pulses, possibly looking at the rune is the best solution. Nerfing Purity of Purpose would just remove Scrapper entirely since it would have no differentiating purpose from other classes and skills that cleanse conditions.

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Is this post really from August 21st, edited August 28th, with the first comments on it today?

I don't really come to this part of the forums, but it seems a proposed round of balancing 9 days ago would have hit my radar and garnered attention from the community before today.

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These changes are a great start.

The meta has been a bit toxic because of lack of meaningful reveal skills. Bringing scrapper reveal back is a nice change.

Scourge and Firebrand currently dominate the meta and lowering the scourge damage is also a nice change, I still think it needs more nerfs in WvW for damage with it it being even more support orientated and less damage.

Firebrand, if it wasn't the be all end all support profession we could see some more diversity. Limiting some of its boons to other classes and not firebrand could be a starting place.

For Chronomancer, I really think you should rework support wells. They should pulse AOE around you like the new Scrapper gyros and be more support themed such as giving our pulsing barrier (right now scourge gives out the best barriers). Really, Support Chrono wells need looked at, they are extremely underwhelming.

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Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.I think I might be the only player who plays heal scourge in WvW but this change would probably force me to go DPS instead.For warrior, is the warhorn condi cleanse really so good and popular that it needs a nerf?

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Firebrand needs harder nerf to its supportive abilities, although proposed changes are pretty good, with removal of aegis, you also remove quite some healing.

Scourge needs a rework of big shade. It's just too strong. It great on offence, great on defence, great on support,... Can't have all of it. Make it that effect around you only effects allies and shade affects enemies. Or reduce target cap or something, not a necro player, soo idk what would be a good change. Also maybe tone down on corrupt, change some corrupts to removal effects. Maybe make all scourge corrupts removals instead and require GM trait to be picked for them to be corrupts, thus clashing with big shade GM.

Great work on engi reveal being back and a bit of nerf to its cleanse abilities. Maybe a touch of purity of purpose would help instead. Conversion abilities for boons and conditions are powerful, i would use them less.

Like revenant and warrior changes.

As for mesmer, idk how CI works now (cd, only working on skills that are on cooldown), but on some cases it could mean 3s cd on staff 5. Idk how i feel with mantra changes as they are quite clunky to use anyway, but let's say they are fine. Just please don't make it too clunky.Since we are talking about WvW, repeated nerfs have pushed mesmer(chrono) out of group play, how about some changes adressing this? Changes to wells for instance so that it doesn't affect mirage.

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@Chaba.5410 said:

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    - I suggest leaving the gyro as it is and nerf Purity of Purpose trait instead. And Also take a look at antitoxin rune. Too many synergies there.

Disagree. Nerfing the number of pulses, possibly looking at the rune is the best solution. Nerfing Purity of Purpose would just remove Scrapper entirely since it would have no differentiating purpose from other classes and skills that cleanse conditions.

See the problem is, the way scrapper is right now, no other support class besides firebrand, who is being used thanks to all the stab and aegis it provide, is viable.Scrapper is killing support diversity (along with firebrands yes).I would be down if another class gave this many boons and heals like scrapper, while leaving scrapper as it is.I would also be down if another class gave this much stability and/or aegis like firebrand and firebrands left as they are.

But the problem is there isn't anything else. Only other class that has been used as support was tempest, and tempest has both mediocre healing and not nearly as many boons as scrapper + no way to give stab not aegis to allies. Makes it an inferior choice even to scrapper.

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No resistance on warrior warhorn please. Overpowered boons that makes people immune to effects such as stability & resistance (even aegis and barriers to a certain extend too) needs to be cut down, not increased, especially when they can be given to the whole team instead of just one person. Otherwise it's only fair that you give every single class the ability to provide these boons to a whole team, which will result in huge powercreep.

of course, when stab & resistance gets cut down, the amount of condi and cc spams also need to be looked at

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Given that there are several changes to reveal skills making them more potent, is there any chance that the already underperforming thief builds in WvW could get some small buffs? In particular Id like to see the undoing of the Swipe change that simply made Daredevil unviable, and possibly a buff to double tap/Three Round Burst given that currently the correct way to play Rifle is spamming Skirmishers shot because it does more damage, and never kneeling because you get nothing from it. Plus, some more permanent solution to the permastealth cheese than hoping that there is a sentry nearby. Maybe a hard cap on stealth duration with a penalty if that cap is reached?

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Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

Do what you did with tome of resolve, chapter 2, and split the game modes with tome of courage. The tome of courage is a big nerf to firebrand in pve especially fractal cms. Since Aegis is completely removed, It means it also grants Zero healing. Since firebrand heals off of aegis your potentially killing its purpose. If you adjust it in pvp, and wvw its fine so that it balances vs other classes. But as for raids, pvp, its another adjustment people have to take on.

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The warrior changes are questionable at best.Especially giving warhorn resistance, barrier and damage amplification. I can understand wanting to give warhorn more play but you've overdone it if you ship it with all of those things. The extra blast is nice and probably a good starting point. I'd lean less into giving it more boons and if you're thinking about having a damage amp at all you need to remember what happened the to the last damage amp you had trouble with in Glyph of Empowerment. 25% is just too high by any reasonable metric, 10% was too high for said utility skill....I don't think a weapon skill should outshine it.

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I can only really comment on the mesmer changes as that's all I play in WvW, so here goes:

  • Illusion of Life changes seem a bit heavy handed, especially since most of the benefits are offset by the rather long cast time, stuff is usually dead before the cast finishes unless I pre-empt it, even traited with recharge reduction and superspeed it's still not a massively gamechanging ability.
  • I've never had a mantra not respect line of sight before, so that sounds like a bugfix which is fine. Requiring to be facing your target wouldn't really change much except making them more annoying to use. (Which could be the intended effect?) Must admit, it's quite satisfying to dissuade someone chasing you with a Power Spike on their face while you're running off, so not being able to do that anymore would be sad.
  • Chaos Storm change would serve little purpose now that Chaotic Interruption has been changed, and it should be less problematic.
  • Chaotic Interruption change seems nice, it could be a gamechanger trait if you score that last interrupt and it recharges an escape skill or takes a vital skill off cooldown to make a saving grace strike, perhaps too much so.

Thanks for communicating proposed changes in advance to gather feedback, that's a step in the right direction!

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I would like to hear your plans about fixing Chrono. If you look at all the questions and feedback chronos are leaving in the Mesmer forums for the last month and a half, you'll see that the last balance update that added the 1 Illusion requirement makes the class unplayable in all aspects of the game.

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Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

It is very nice to see some communication especially about balance update! :)What if fury/resistance boons were baseline for warhorn (non-traited, for 5 people) and Quick Breathing would increase target cap to 10 in addition to adrenaline for each affected ally (as it is now)? This would encourage warhorn usage (both in and out of combat) also outside of WvW and in solo/small scale fights.Sight Beyond Sight is defintely welcomed change to deal with those pesky enemy thieves...

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@Thundabolt.8541 said:I don't think Engineer deserves any more nerfs. That's really all I have to say.

EDIT: Okay, here's why I believe Engineer shouldn't be touched.

I haven't seen half as many Scrapper players as I did ever since the nerf of all the barrier they got. I'd like to know where the decision came from to give them further nerfs.

The nerf to purge gyro is unreasonable imo. Every class deserves a decent condition cleanse.

while I agree the nerf is not needed, engi has a ton of condi cleanse outside of the gyro

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