More Characters need to Die! -- How to make GW2 writing better.

[gateless gate.8406]

PLEASE don't do this. It is an amateur mistake. That other MMO which shall not be named tried this in one of its recent expansions by killing off a major, extremely powerful, and beloved character during a random leveling quest. Yeah, not good.

GW2's writing has a couple problems (focusing on unlikable characters, not focusing on likeable characters -- or outright killing them) but this ain't it.

[Voltekka.2375]

Yeah, we all saw how GoT ended up, deaths or no deaths.

[MrRuin.9740]

I agree with OP. I stopped caring about the characters long ago.Most of them joke around with sarcasm or useless banter in the middle of serious scenarios. Almost all of them have plot armour, so there's no fear anything will happen nor need to feel invested in them.The commander is the worst one. Has to get along with everyone. The commander makes rash and reckless decisions with almost no consequences and always wins. The resurrection of Aurene after that fake out was it for me. They had a chance for real consequence and character growth and threw it out the window. The commander does not grow or have any progression. They're just an omnipotent hero who makes reckless decisions and always comes out on top when fighting dragons and gods. The dragons aren't even a threat anymore. They're just a checklist as we go through them.The story is like watching some 80's action show where you know everything is going to work out just fine and everyone resets for the next story.
This next part of the 'saga' will be more of the same. I think the writers are scared to do anything beyond the new threat of the season, then hero prevails trope. Scared to put any real consequences or development in it. It's just rinse and repeat with each season, so it's hard to maintain any kind of interest.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Kill the commander.

Oh dude, wait till SAB next year, you will see so many commanders dying in Tribulation Mode, that Grenth is gonna make a petition for Anet to stop with the festival hehe.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:To add to this, there's more interesting ways to continue the story, such as the Commander finally having a mental breakdown from all the stress, calling out numerous characters for their actions over the past few years, and maybe even having Jormag attempt to convert the Commander and almost succeeding due to said mental breakdown.

A mental breakdown....noo this is exactly what i was talking about. That is soap opera level writing. Again, this kind of idea comes from the fact that we are the commander, and because we are in this position we are restricted in such a way that our PC can't be fallible....the only way to be fallible is if some outside force, forcing us to....this is not good writing...and unfortunately we are stuck in this position because of our baggage to being the commander.

A plot line like that might work well for some other media....like Jessica Jones did a pretty good job of mind control in their first season...but there are massive differences between that show and this game. Jessica Jones herself was already a fallible, and flawed character.

What i'm getting at here is that our character cant make any decisions based on his/her own volition because...our character is an emotionless bag that spews out orders to everyone and that's all he/she is right now.

A mental breakdown has nothing to do with mind control. It could be the commander being so mentally drained from the heavy weight on their shoulders, that they start making costly mistakes. We almost had that with Aurene's death but then they went and resurrected her right away.

[Erasculio.2914]

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:As the commander of the pact, we are stuck in an eternally long episode of West Wing...so ya...Our character is not and has not been the pact commander for quite some time now. They're still called "the commander" because there was no better title available (and Taimi's "bookah" suggestion didn't catch). Logan is the current pact commander.

But regardless, the story suffers due to ArenaNet's attempt to please everyone at the same time. ArenaNet wants to please players who see themselves in their characters, and so want a main character who's a complete blank (allowing themselves to insert whatever it is they want there). At the same time, ArenaNet wants to please players who want a good story, with a main character who has at least a bit of agency, and thus the dialogues and etc our characters have.

In the end, the result is the same as in every other attempt by ArenaNet to please everyone - no one is left truly satisfied, since the middle option doesn't insult anyone but also doesn't truly fulfill anyone.

Don't expect this to change any time soon. Our character will likely continue to be basically an almost transparent foil to the true heroes of the story - Taimi, Braham, Rytlock and etc. Those are the characters who actually have story arcs in GW2.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:As the commander of the pact, we are stuck in an eternally long episode of West Wing...so ya...Our character is not and has not been the pact commander for quite some time now. They're still called "the commander" because there was no better title available (and Taimi's "bookah" suggestion didn't catch). Logan is the current pact commander.

But regardless, the story suffers due to ArenaNet's attempt to please everyone at the same time. ArenaNet wants to please players who see themselves in their characters, and so want a main character who's a complete blank (allowing themselves to insert whatever it is they want there). At the same time, ArenaNet wants to please players who want a good story, with a main character who has at least a bit of agency, and thus the dialogues and etc our characters have.

In the end, the result is the same as in every other attempt by ArenaNet to please everyone - no one is left truly satisfied, since the middle option doesn't insult anyone but also doesn't truly fulfill anyone.

Don't expect this to change any time soon. Our character will likely continue to be basically an almost transparent foil to the true heroes of the story - Taimi, Braham, Rytlock and etc. Those are the characters who actually have story arcs in GW2.

You can have both a good story and a character you can call your own. Plenty of games have that. You just need to have choices within the narrative and those choices build your character. Of course those choices couldn't possibly reflect the full spectrum of interactions one would want for their character but no game can do that. Players who want "true" RPing would be best served with old school PnP.

It's just that Anet hasn't done that since personal story (and even that was minimal and mostly inconsequential).

[TwiceCookedPorkins.8940]

Braham needs to go. Such an unredeemably obnoxious character.

[Ishtar.6457]

You must be a GoT fans if you think death equals good writings. Well it's not. You can kill 10 main character but when the story sucks it sucks. The reason people stick to GoT even after the red wedding is because they feel close to every single character on it. That is good writing and good character development. Here? I don't even feel myself as the commander. Do you think I care when the commander die? I laugh, because i know it will be brought back because we have the mist in this game. Predictable af.

I can just tell that they call this SAGA is because norn equals ancient nordic irl, and saga is .. well .. stories and that was it. Since we are focusing on norn and their legend why not call it saga. Gods .. if that is really the only reason I will laugh my ass off. Great writing. Good job. Clap. Standing ovations.

[Naxos.2503]

Killing for shock value alone is not good writing.

Killing needs to have a meaning, heavy felt consequence, and make sense.

For me, the epitome of good writing is when the writers take into account what the audience might want, and work it into the story in a believable way, through different branched choices, having very diverse impacts by the end of the arc. It's rarely done anymore because it takes the most work, as well as requiring to know how a wide and diverse audience might react (with appropriate choices available for several type of people) It often means an increased bond for the player to their character, as suddenly choices reveal the character as truly their own, as opposed to a character that is led and Following a single thread.

Not all games are able, nor even should do writing that way, but in my opinion, that's when you see skilled writing at it's highest when done well.

[jediwolf.8724]

How about the Commander gets into (what is for them) an unwinnable situation, a fight with overwhelming odds only to be rescued at the last second?The Commander is always leading the charge, why not make it a trap? Put some excitement into it rather then the Commander is always leading, planning and wins the fight. Something a little different would be a nice change. Killing off character just for the sake of it is not a great idea.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"anninke.7469" said:Why do so many people think the only way to get rid of a character is to kill them of? Why can't they just leave to do whatever unimportant stuff they want, like growing cabbage, building sandcastles on a beach or read all the books in the Priory library?

Exactly. I believe Rox is going to leave to lead a happy life at the new home she's finally found with the Olmakhan. :) Like I said, character death is a cheap plot device when used merely for the shock effect or to "get rid" of a character.

[Trise.2865]

People do realize characters can be written out of main storylines without being killed off, right? Like Marjory and Braham were during Path of Fire.

Typical "cancel culture": This doesn't serve my whims in this particular moment, DESTROY IT!

[Rauderi.8706]

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:

Also, yeesh on the original post. GW2 has already had entirely too much meaningless, fridgey death. Killing characters without a reason is just lame, when they can simply be written off and given a mention as needed, which is far more resource-efficient.To add to this, there's more interesting ways to continue the story, such as the Commander finally having a mental breakdown from all the stress, calling out numerous characters for their actions over the past few years, and maybe even having Jormag attempt to convert the Commander and almost succeeding due to said mental breakdown.

I wouldn't go so far as 'insanity', but I'd like to see some strain. A reason for the voice actors to emote. Like, the newer Charr-male VA is doing a good job, but all the dialog he's given is so . . soft. Temperate. Understanding. Nothing at all like a charr or the 'brutal' personality I started with years ago in char-gen. We need to give the Commander some impact.

[Ototo.3214]

Haven't read other's replies to the OP yet, but after reading that post I have to ask....are we playing the same game? I guess spoiler warning for some of the things I talk about.

IIRC, we were "The Commander" of the Pact but have since kinda....given up that role. Technically Logan is now the head of the Pact and we simple kept the title of Commander because it was the easiest thing for our group of friends to keep referring to us as, and....well....the game doesn't really have a way of making every PC's name have voice acting. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I swear that happened. I just haven't had a chance to play through that bit in a while.And if you haven't noticed throughout Season 4, it's shown to us that The Commander is actually quite reckless and often makes decisions that ultimately might not be the right thing to do. That was kinda the whole point of that monologue we got from Joko. Are we really the good guy? We ignorantly destroyed 2 Elder Dragons without even being aware of the repercussions. Taimi even fixed (iirc?) a machine that could destroy 2 more in 1 fell swoop, and almost did when Balthazar got a hold of it and we were forced to track him down to stop him. We boldly assumed we had a chance at fighting Kralkatorrik in Season 4 Episode 5 despite Aurene showing us her vision of dying in such a battle no matter what angle we came at him from. Sure, she didn't die in the end, but to many of us the ending of episode 5 was heartbreaking and very well done.Also, you say they should focus more on just killing characters yet suggest there should be a plot line of yet another of them not really being dead.Also also, don't forget Blish. Never forget Blish. (Though I still think we might get him back. Not necessarily because I think that needs to happen, but because to me...it seems like there are a few things that suggest it like when he was in stasis on the docks and just the fact he's a robot that can go into stasis like that and come back rambles)I don't necessarily agree that they should just kill of characters willy-nilly though, there needs to be a reason for it. Just killing someone off doesn't automatically make you care about them. As for Taimi, considering it's now been really focusing on her illness, we'll probably get to see more of that. There's a journal entry from her that says she very intentionally was hiding the effects it was having on her because she didn't want us to worry about her when we should be focusing on the threat at hand. But I do remember some instances in the game where you can kinda see how her illness affects her, like when the first Scruffy was broken in Rata Novus....i think? You can see her walking outside of her golem and she kinda limps along. At least gave me the impression she really can't do anything without Scruffy.I think you should also go back and listen to what some of the story writers said in the recent announcement cause I have a feeling the coming story is going to give you a bit of what you want. Particularly with the Charr, it was suggested that now that some dragons have been felled, especially Kralk...maybe some of the treaties between races aren't valid anymore. It was also shown that Bangar will finally make an appearance and we already know that he's one of the Imperators of the High Legions that doesn't completely agree with the treaty with humans. I think we're going to get a story focusing on fighting between some of the races this time around and I'm really excited for that.