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Something has to be done about scourges and firebrands.


Doug.4930

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Guardian

  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

Necromancer

  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
  • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

Preface by showing I know about upcoming balance changes to these two specs, but would like to state that these changes do not even come CLOSE to bringing down these two vastly over performing classes.

These two specs simply bring so much utility to the table in both small scale and large scale that it makes other combo's look like a joke.You come up against players of equal ability that are running these specs you lose. Every SINGLE time. Only if there is a great skill gap will you find yourself victories against these specs.

The worst part is the player base is well aware of this. Feels like 50% of the player base AT MINIMUM are running either a firebrand or a scourge. Its been this way for months.

I Know a lot of players were hoping for a new expansion for the 30th of Aug announcement. But frankly I breathed a sigh of relief at the news that there would be no new expansion (yet), as balance seems to get SIGNIFICANTLY worse as each expansion is released. I found the thought of being stuck with BROKEN elite specs for 4-6 MONTHS to be horrifying.

Love this game, but getting really tired of having quite a bit of fun in WvW until you run into a decent group/duo that's either running a fire brand or a scourge, at which point you either re roll to your own FB/Scourge or hop map.

You guys have high hopes for alliances and new WvW maps, which quite frankly is a delusion. Alliances aren't coming. New maps aren't coming. But would it Kill arena net to simply provide a balance patch every month or two? Or Emergency balance patches to fix critical issues? Is that too much?

I know this post will change nothing but it does provide some catharsis.

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Yea we can only play 2 classes in wvw. There's definitely not a class that does massive unreflectable damage from 1200 range on a cd of 6s or something.

Oh and yes FB is overperforming everywhere. Scourge is too strong in zergs but otoh they aren't really wanted anywhere else. I would nerf loremaster. Instead of retaining passive skills when tomes are used, it could be only for 10s, like the Rev's Draconic Echo. Loremaster also shuts out the other choices pretty handidly.

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Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

In other words, buff instead of nerf to give us more meta choices. Support Scrappers used to be a good counter to scrouges but weak against power builds. And ANet doesn't like it.

Not everyone likes to play FB snd Scrg. I forced myself to try out both of them and after a few weeks of gameplay, i just don't like their play styles, meta or not.

So for those that play only WvW, it's either you stick to your preferred professions and get blocked from joining squads or play meta classes. Or you stopped playing, totally. It has been so since PoF and ANet is not concerned at all.

Lately, it seems like many players gave up. We are are fedup of waiting and waiting and waiting and...

Merchandise sales and partnerships are their priorities now? How good can your sales be if player base continues to shrink drastically?

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That's just how people like to play,even if things get changed ( Which is not gonna happen,because suggesting anything to Anet is a waste of time from my experience,even if you're completely correct in your suggestion ) people flock to the most other braindead combo available. It's an issue on both sides,people prefer to run with 15 or 50 people with about 50% being Fb's,Revs and the rest being Scourges while everything else is just an add because it's the easy way to go.

Aoe spamming with your eyes closed while constantly being healed and buffed up with boons. Anet gives the tools that people abuse. Blobbing is a braindead spammfest atm,but alot might disagree. The roam scene kind of died out aswell,it turned into a gank clownfiesta with alot of "carry me " builds.

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Necromancer doesn't need to be touched. They are slow and dreadfully easy to kill. Guardian on the other hand needs to be gutted. I brought this up yesterday but realized i missed a few more points on what they do. But first look at scourge.

People complain Scourges either hit to hard, hit too many pepole, deal too many conditions, or corrupt too many boons. Firstly, hitting to hard? This is laughable, watch any video of anyone playing scourge dropping sand savant and look how low the damage is. It's actually borderline pathetic how weak their damage is for a class that moves so slow. People often say if you aren't running power scourge, you're doing it wrong. It's actually the flip of that, if you're running power, you're basically a crutch to your group, raw damage is pathetic. They hit too many targets? Again laughable, have you ever stood in the path of a regular Arrowcart? Wouldn't matter if the necro hit 10 or 50 targets, their damage is too low. Dealing too many conditions? Again this was is funny because the meta generally runs power scourge which translates to little condition damage. Even if spec'd into condition damage, resistance blocks all of it thanks to our friend the guardian who'll be addressed next. Corrupting too many boons? Not sure how or why people even mention this considering the boon application far outweighs the boon corrupts by a nautical mile, and yet here we see an incoming boon corrupt nerf shakes head...

Now the Guardian, the kingpin of all WvW problems, the class that does too much and does it well. The class that many commanders do (or used to) refuse to leave spawn until they had enough. Also the main reason groups blame the lost of fights.. not enough firebrands. So this is what this class has the ability to do:

  • Party stability to the point if organized correctly, the group is permanently immune to CC (and this is very easy to achieve)
  • Party resistance to the point if organized correctly, the group is mostly immune to all conditions (and this is also very easy to achieve)
  • Heals entire party (and does this better than most other classes regardless of what spec they are in
  • Group Aegis, and if organized correctly can maintain a fairly high up-time
  • Retaliation, comes too easy for them, this is likely why we don't see many ele's or dragonhunters anymore, despite them being good alternative damage classes
  • Reflect. Wall of reflection has a longer uptime and lower cooldown than any of unblockable skills, and completely nullifies any hope of ranged classes "reflection isn't a problem, just use unblockable" - Uh no, one wall can nullify an entire ranged zerg, and it's on a lower cool down with a longer up-time. This makes no sense in itself
  • Too many "I win buttons" as people like to call them, both invulnerable and blocks. Someone once said a couple years ago to another player that died on their guardian "Wow you died on a guardian? That's kitten impressive, how did you pull that off" - Not really much more has to be said than this
  • Quickness, and I almost forgot about this.. group quickness.. I mean come-on... seriously...
  • Condition removal, between the books and purging flames, nothing else really needs to be said bout this
  • Condition conversion to boons (this needs to be separated from Condition removal because the fact this class can do both is beyond asinine.(A note on this one, the skill converts 5 conditions to boons for an entire party, yet we have devouring darkness being nerfed from 3 to 2 to convert boons to conditions. So the question remains, why exactly is this guardian skill untouched, this basically functions like an elite with huge cooldown, but instead it's on a 12s cooldown??????)
  • Then to top it off, the ease in which this class applies group might, vigor, swiftness, and regeneration

This is all basically coming from 1 single spec! And we wonder why the meta has gone completely stale in WvW. Why are even people complaining about other classes at all? They do 11 things well, while other classes are relegated to 1-2 things well, and maybe if they're lucky, being average at a 2nd or 3rd thing.

What would the Guardian class look like if it was treated like other classes... say, they get to keep their party stability, while drastically lowering their healing, and taking away their ability to provide group Aegis, then simply removing everything else from their arsenal? Not so desired in WvW anymore are they, but they'd still be needed for group stability.

People don't realize just how overtuned this class is and just how much it holds back other classes, and outright prevents certain classes from even entering WvW.

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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Necromancer doesn't need to be touched. They are slow and dreadfully easy to kill. Guardian on the other hand needs to be gutted. I brought this up yesterday but realized i missed a few more points on what they do. But first look at scourge.

People complain Scourges either hit to hard, hit too many pepole, deal too many conditions, or corrupt too many boons. Firstly, hitting to hard? This is laughable, watch any video of anyone playing scourge dropping sand savant and look how low the damage is. It's actually borderline pathetic how weak their damage is for a class that moves so slow. People often say if you aren't running power scourge, you're doing it wrong. It's actually the flip of that, if you're running power, you're basically a crutch to your group, raw damage is pathetic. They hit too many targets? Again laughable, have you ever stood in the path of a regular Arrowcart? Wouldn't matter if the necro hit 10 or 50 targets, their damage is too low. Dealing too many conditions? Again this was is funny because the meta generally runs power scourge which translates to little condition damage. Even if spec'd into condition damage, resistance blocks all of it thanks to our friend the guardian who'll be addressed next. Corrupting too many boons? Not sure how or why people even mention this considering the boon application far outweighs the boon corrupts by a nautical mile, and yet here we see an incoming boon corrupt nerf shakes head...

Now the Guardian, the kingpin of all WvW problems, the class that does too much and does it well. The class that many commanders do (or used to) refuse to leave spawn until they had enough. Also the main reason groups blame the lost of fights.. not enough firebrands. So this is what this class has the ability to do:

  • Party stability to the point if organized correctly, the group is permanently immune to CC (and this is very easy to achieve)
  • Party resistance to the point if organized correctly, the group is mostly immune to all conditions (and this is also very easy to achieve)
  • Heals entire party (and does this better than most other classes regardless of what spec they are in
  • Group Aegis, and if organized correctly can maintain a fairly high up-time
  • Retaliation, comes too easy for them, this is likely why we don't see many ele's or dragonhunters anymore, despite them being good alternative damage classes
  • Reflect. Wall of reflection has a longer uptime and lower cooldown than any of unblockable skills, and completely nullifies any hope of ranged classes "reflection isn't a problem, just use unblockable" - Uh no, one wall can nullify an entire ranged zerg, and it's on a lower cool down with a longer up-time. This makes no sense in itself
  • Too many "I win buttons" as people like to call them, both invulnerable and blocks. Someone once said a couple years ago to another player that died on their guardian "Wow you died on a guardian? That's kitten impressive, how did you pull that off" - Not really much more has to be said than this
  • Quickness, and I almost forgot about this.. group quickness.. I mean come-on... seriously...
  • Condition removal, between the books and purging flames, nothing else really needs to be said bout this
  • Condition conversion to boons (this needs to be separated from Condition removal because the fact this class can do both is beyond asinine.(A note on this one, the skill converts 5 conditions to boons for an entire party, yet we have devouring darkness being nerfed from 3 to 2 to convert boons to conditions. So the question remains, why exactly is this guardian skill untouched, this basically functions like an elite with huge cooldown, but instead it's on a 12s cooldown??????)
  • Then to top it off, the ease in which this class applies group might, vigor, swiftness, and regeneration

This is all basically coming from 1 single spec! And we wonder why the meta has gone completely stale in WvW. Why are even people complaining about other classes at all? They do 11 things well, while other classes are relegated to 1-2 things well, and maybe if they're lucky, being average at a 2nd or 3rd thing.

What would the Guardian class look like if it was treated like other classes... say, they get to keep their party stability, while drastically lowering their healing, and taking away their ability to provide group Aegis, then simply removing everything else from their arsenal? Not so desired in WvW anymore are they, but they'd still be needed for group stability.

People don't realize just how overtuned this class is and just how much it holds back other classes, and outright prevents certain classes from even entering WvW.

You forgot the instares of MI.

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@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

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They should just nerf Necro Mark stacking.

That's the only thing making Scourge viable in zerg v zerg battles.

Enemy takes a wrong path, zerg lays down a billion Marks, some poor sod gets blown up.

The boon corrupt from Shades and Scourge is just a little bonus to complement their already strong cancer circles.

If players were given a small trigger limit upon getting damaged by a number of Marks(like can't trigger anymore Marks after triggering 10 Marks), their pirate ship capabilities will drop by more than half, and we will go back to Warrior frontlines supported by Scourge corruptors and Firebrand Supports.

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@Doug.4930 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Sorry, but "nerf everything cuz ma rangur in melee diez", is a horrible suggestion. Ranger straight up counters scourge and necro in general, period. Do not blame poor playing/poor skills on the enemy class. Boon corruption has ALWAYS been necro's thing, but the problem lies with perma boon Application. I mean, seriously. Gut necro booncorrupts and boonbeast will be stopped by... What? Zergs will have their boons stripped by... What?Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?Crowd control? With only staff 5 (and many scourges dont always run staff), there is the F4 which causes fear once every 20s. Is that much Crowd control?Large aoes? Even full zerk, each hit on shroud does 3k-4k dmg. "Yes but many scourges mean more dmg" well, the same can be said about many rangers using Rapidfire which will result in 300k damage, how does that make any concrete argument? I suggest you actually learn about what the class can do, how it does it, and cannot do, but fore you ask for nerfs. Cause you obviously know very little.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

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@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@"Arctisavange.7261" said:I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

Who do you think clears their condis, provides barriers and ageis/boons?Not taking scrappers into account.

Its because fb and scourge are stopping melee trains from happening and that's why revs and eles are "safe" to deal them numbers.

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@Doug.4930 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

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@Doug.4930 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

Ok mate enjoy your broken build while it lasts :) Fortunately most people on here can see past the class they play, and also notice that WvW is plagued with scourges for good reason. They need adjustment.

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@Doug.4930 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

@Voltekka.2375 said:I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

Ok mate enjoy your broken build while it lasts :) Fortunately most people on here can see past the class they play, and also notice that WvW is plagued with scourges for good reason. They need adjustment.

"broken build". While it lasts. As long as fb is in its current state, the only thing that may have a shot at countering its absurd boon output is necro, and scourge in particular. Or any other class that has perma boons, like soulbeast, one of THE most broken roam builds. But youre not really interested in actual conversation, nah. You just want to drop whatever "argument" suits your agenda, and say irrelevant stuff after when you get called out for being wrong. :)

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@Doug.4930 said:

In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway.

umm you may need to recheck your build if you play a melee class and lose to a scourge 1v1. Scourge is easily CC locked, the barrier application is low enough that you can power through it. The spec lacks the 2nd health bar to do what it normally does and face tank damage because anet refuses to give necromancer real survivablilty.Scourge doesn't become a threat until it has support holding it up like a puppet.

@Doug.4930 said:

Um geez I don't know.-Sand Cascade-Desert Shroud-Sand Flare-Sand Swell-Serpent Siphon

I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

Looks to me like you just wiki'd barrier and listed scourge skills. No one runs sand swell or serpent siphon. Both of those skills are beyond underwhelming and the tiny barrier that they do apply if you were crazy enough to waste utility slots on them would be shredded by a single auto attack.

That leaves flare,shroud, and cascade. A little over 12k barrier if you mash it all at once. Easily removed with rev and ele damage from 1200 range...400 range before the scourge can even do anything significant.

I can match a scourges damage output with my spellbreaker build for zerging and that's 100% melee so I have to stand there zzz till the tag moves in to melee range so they even get a head start.

If people got such a problem with scourge they should just built their comp to hard counter it. Long range spike damage. Revs,eles, ect so they die as they try to get close enough to actually use wells and shade skills.

But path of least resistance is to complain on the forums so gg. Can't wait for the new meta were we have warriors buffing eles and revs with its warhorn for an extra 25% damage on 2 hits. Seems like people are ok with it since I think only 3 posts in that balance thread actually posted against it. Should be hilarious to watch.

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