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What is your opinion about Jormag's gender?


Terter.4125

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@"Gopaka.7839" said:Can we simplify things just once without adding all the colors of the rainbow when there is a topic about male and female characteristics? Just for once put your thought on a scale and decide how does Jormag voice and vibes seem to you, without staying in the middle? More of the feminine side or more of the masculine? Also English is not my native language, so I'm simplifying things just with male/female... do not hate for that please.

I'm a behavioural biologist so I've had years of people teaching me not to think that way; that I should never assume an animal is male or female or in charge of a group or happy or sad or anything else just because something about it reminds me of how humans act. (And with good reason, we've wasted a lot of time and research trying to force the evidence to fit incorrect assumptions like 'the smaller ones must be female' or 'the leader of the group is male' because for a long time people refused to believe that how humans act isn't universal). By now it's habit for me, it almost wouldn't occur to me to say that because the voice actor they got for Jormag sounds female the dragon must be female.

Plus I think the conversation is more interesting if we consider other options too. One of the things which makes Elder Dragons interesting is they aren't human and they aren't 'just' flying lizards, they're something different from what you see in most games or stories. If that only goes as far as their appearance and then they act just like humans they become a lot more boring.

But my answer is still: we don't know. I agree that the voice actor in that video sounded like a woman, but I don't think that's enough to go on.

@Randulf.7614 said:

@ClickToKill.8473 said:Elder Dragons seem to be primordial forces that don't have the concept of gender. They don't have concepts mortals have to begin with, as we learned with Kralkatorrik.

Also, are we sure that is really Jormag's voice? Maybe Jormag has a herald.

They confirmed it was Jormag on one of the writers twitter replies and that Jormag is non binary

Do you have a link to that? I've never been able to make sense of Twitter, half the time I can't re-find a tweet from someone I follow, so I don't like my chances of going looking for this one, but I'd like to see exactly what they said.

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@"Danikat.8537" said:Do you have a link to that? I've never been able to make sense of Twitter, half the time I can't re-find a tweet from someone I follow, so I don't like my chances of going looking for this one, but I'd like to see exactly what they said.

https://twitter.com/tomabernathy/status/1167531094805110784

I'll highlight this as well since it ties in with this thread's poll (even though I think it is a grave mistake to be thinking of ED's as "people")

https://twitter.com/tomabernathy/status/1167868753163370501

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Whether Dragons have gender or not is completely irrelevant since they all seem to reproduce asexually regardless of how masculine or feminine their voice/personalities are.

I like the casting choice on Jormag's voice personally, it gives Jormag this manipulative, devious pressence which is exactly what it's personality type is.Jormag prefers to corrupt it's minions through manipulation rather than just straight up twist and enslave them with magic like Kralkatorrik or Zhaitan, and with Mordremoth's magic too I love the idea that Jormag has become even more intelligent and manipulative as a result.

Personally though this whole gender discussion thing is a bad idea imo, specially in todays political climate and I hope the devs distance themselves from it because I am already seeing a lot of people projecting their preferred genders on this dragon and that is guaranteed to lead to a lot of arguing and fighting in the long run which is only going to hurt the friendly nature of this game's community.We all know how much of a no win situation that will be for Anet if they suddonly find themselves with multiple groups of angry people demanding they confirm Jormag is male, female, non binery, etc etc etc.. and once they open that door that crap will be a constant recurring thing every single time a new Dragon comes into the story.

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@Teratus.2859 said:Whether Dragons have gender or not is completely irrelevant since they all seem to reproduce asexually regardless of how masculine or feminine their voice/personalities are.

I like the casting choice on Jormag's voice personally, it gives Jormag this manipulative, devious pressence which is exactly what it's personality type is.Jormag prefers to corrupt it's minions through manipulation rather than just straight up twist and enslave them with magic like Kralkatorrik or Zhaitan, and with Mordremoth's magic too I love the idea that Jormag has become even more intelligent and manipulative as a result.

Personally though this whole gender discussion thing is a bad idea imo, specially in todays political climate and I hope the devs distance themselves from it because I am already seeing a lot of people projecting their preferred genders on this dragon and that is guaranteed to lead to a lot of arguing and fighting in the long run which is only going to hurt the friendly nature of this game's community.We all know how much of a no win situation that will be for Anet if they suddonly find themselves with multiple groups of angry people demanding they confirm Jormag is male, female, non binery, etc etc etc.. and once they open that door that kitten will be a constant recurring thing every single time a new Dragon comes into the story.

It'll be fine since Anet have already answered the question and said further elaboration will appear in the story (see above tweets)

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Do you have a link to that? I've never been able to make sense of Twitter, half the time I can't re-find a tweet from someone I follow, so I don't like my chances of going looking for this one, but I'd like to see exactly what they said.

I'll highlight this as well since it ties in with this thread's poll (even though I think it is a grave mistake to be thinking of ED's as "people")

This seems the most fitting to me anyway.

They are sexless beings. They have no biological sex. But are intelligent enough to understand gender.It makes sense that the more they interact with humans/peoples/races etc. the more likely they are to define their gender in such terms.

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Now I really want to know how the Sons of Svanir will handle this information.

In a way it should fit with their view that Jormag is Dragon and a Spirit of the Wild, since the other spirits are a representation of all animals of that species, not just the males or the females. But it seems like they've forgotten that Drakkar offered both Jora and Svanir his power, and the only reason she wasn't corrupted is she refused to accept it and now have this narrative that Jormag considers females unworthy and won't accept them so I can't imagine they'd be happy about Jormag being non-binary.

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@Ryukai.6524 said:

@"Dragon Priestess.9760" said:Well, they can't be sexless since they (seem to) reproduce sexually. I bet they are hermaphroditic.

You can have egg laying species that consist of only females and are not hermaphroditic.

edit: what is grammar

I have something to research today, Parthenogenesis!

This is a new concept for me, so thanks for the information!

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Many players, including Wooden Potatoes, have this theory of Jormag being female because of the voice that was having in the new saga cinematic. What do you think... do you agree or disagree with this theory ?You forgot to ask, "do you think it matters in the least whether an elder dragon is male or female?" Aside from external factors (choice of voice actor, pronouns used in the writing, appellations used), how has has the story, Tyria, or the Commander been affected by the gender of Mordremoth, Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, or even Aurene? Near as I can tell, it's been largely immaterial.

To me, it's like "Mother Nature" -- there are sociological reasons to refer to nature as female, but no scientific importance in understanding "nature" in doing so.

tl;dr I don't care if Jormag is voiced by a male or female VA, because I don't think it matters.

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The VA has been confirmed to be a woman. As for Jormag in universe, I’m guessing they are androgynous or genderless. The voice acting is clearly warped and pitched down, sounding more masculine, feminine, or in between at different parts.

If they are going with a more ambiguous or androgynous approach to Jor’s gender presentation, I’m all for it. It’s nice to have some variety in my eldritch abominations. They don’t all need to sound like deep voiced old men. :p

Edit: speculation of course, but at most I feel the voice/gender presentation of Jormag at most may influence how the Sons of Svanir are received by them. I’d love to see Jormag laugh at their misogynistic ways before flash freezing them. ;)

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@"Ashantara.8731" said:While his voice is definitely what we consider "male" in our human world, it does have an androgynous touch to it.

Since we know, though, that dragons do have genders - because Aurene and Glint have been referred to as "she" and Kralkatorrik as "grandfather" - it has to be one or the other. ;)

Need to stop using the "definitely" qualifier. I completely disagree - what may sound male to you does not to others. Myself included.

Also, it can't be one or the other since the devs have already said Jormag is non-binary and the gender or gender references they used are merely narrative tools to help characterise the Dragons

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

Many players, including Wooden Potatoes, have this theory of Jormag being female because of the voice that was having in the new saga cinematic. What do you think... do you agree or disagree with this theory ?You forgot to ask, "do you think it matters in the least whether an elder dragon is male or female?"

It doesn't matter the least... to me (and hopefully to everyone else here as well!). But I would get a good laugh out of the Sons of Svanir's reaction if those misogynists find out the dragon they have been worshipping for so long is female. :p

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It's an Elder Dragon - like a force of nature. We give hurricanes names like Dorian or Katrina, but that doesn't mean we refer to those hurricanes as male or female. They're just...it. Similarly, an Elder Dragon is just an it.

And, frankly, it doesn't matter. Though I would like to add that giving Jormag's voice that ambiguity is frightening, because it reinforces just how otherworldly an Elder Dragon really is. So well done on the voice actress! :D

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I have no opinion, though that's not an option. Jormag's gender is flat-out irrelevant to me :) I hadn't even started to wonder until I saw this poll. I know ANet is pushing the story along so that the Elder Dragons are more than just forces of nature, but to me it still isn't something I think about in regards to them any more than I wonder if a hurricane or earthquake are male or female. Or a stampede of elephants -- there might be male and female elements inherent in the stampede, but the main concern is "is this going to trample important stuff?"

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