What counters Holo?

[Arklite.4013]

This is basically what my ranked experience has boiled down to. I do pretty well against basically everything but Holos. Just tell me what profession does the best against Holo so I can start learning it and stop losing based on how many more Holos the enemy team has.

[Abelisk.5148]

I can 1v1 them on my Fire Weaver

[tacoclaw.8251]

condi damage

[Tycura.1982]

Dodge particle accelerator with static discharge.Don't get hit by Holo 3 or else they get stability.Don't get hit by the block wall.Don't get hit by Holo 5, Elite or rifle knockback.After all that it only takes some stuns and damage as they're squishy and only have a single stun break.

Prot holo is very weak to boon corruption but solid vs many classes. So treat it like old scrapper. Don't fight on a capped node. It's damage only comes from holo mode.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Condi DrD counters the shit out of Holo.

[H a z Z y.1762]

How do u not get hit by holo 3 tho. U have to avoid both hits.

[Tycura.1982]

@H a z Z y.1762 said:How do u not get hit by holo 3 tho. U have to avoid both hits.

Well i play warrior so in my case I typically either shield 5 both hits of it or evade the first and GS3 the second hit. They really need that stab and denying them is absolutely worth a big skill like shield 5.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

a better holo

[Tayga.3192]

Condi mirage

[Alatar.7364]

Mostly condi damage.Namely the best ones: Condi DrD, Fire Weaver and Condi Mirage.

[Eugchriss.2046]

At same skill level, I think that Rev win VS holo

[DoomNexus.5324]

As a thief main who also mained Rev and Holo for quite some time I'd recommend to just try Holo yourself and you'll get a pretty good idea how you outplay them (on other classes ofc. this is not a "Can't beat it -> join it"- advice). Once you get to know its toolset it's actually one of the easier classes to counter imo. One of the most critical things is to dodge photon forge 5 and keep a stun break off-cooldown so that you can break the knockdown if you couldn't manage to dodge it. Managing their CC output is key, so if you play a class with access to stab you should learn to time your stab application. If you have access to a (passive) reflect - like guard bubble or something - you should wait until they're out of their forge.

Stacking Holos or Holos who are firebrand carried are a different kind of bullshit tho.

[Shao.7236]

Avoid Corona Burst, then Conditions, mostly confusion.

Most holo's tend to stack CC's so don't be too quick to stunbreak. Of course you can't evade them all so counting their CC's and making the proper trade offs is where the fight mostly gets defined.

As a condition revenant, my best tool is Banish Enchantment to apply confusion with boon removal as a bonus while it's also unblockable. The rest is just making sure I'm not CC locked.

[Falan.1839]

Scourge, Core Nec, Fire Weaver, Condi Daredevil, Hybrid Sage FB, Strength Spellbreaker when well played. The revamped boonbeast spec should have a solid chance too if he brings enough stab/stunbreak.

[Engal.6359]

All you have to do is play an even more cancer spec (condi spam mes/thief/ele).

[Zephoid.4263]

Not a whole lot. While most people say 'condi', holo is a pretty good counter to scourge due to the quantity of lower cd CC (and scourges lack of stab, few stun breaks, and no access to vigor). That leaves a lot of the lesser played condi classes. One of the reason for the big uptick in burning guards is that they do reasonably well vs holos. I can confirm that codi DD just shreds them with sword 2 almost no counterplay possible from the holo.

[Razor.6392]

A class that has:

• Infinite evades or damage mitigation or both (every CC of theirs you have to dodge or stun break otherwise you eat dat sweet perma-quickness deeps burst)
• Good cc (they have one stun breaker)
• Absurd burst be it condi or phys (even if you cc them, if you can't pile it on then it's pointless)
• No stealth (it will be pointless as they literally spam reveal with zero effort)
• Boon corruption (because they have permanent almost every single boon for 20+ seconds)

Not broken at all btw.

[Curennos.9307]

@Razor.6392 said:A class that has:

• Infinite evades or damage mitigation or both (every CC of theirs you have to dodge or stun break otherwise you eat dat sweet perma-quickness deeps burst)
• Good cc (they have one stun breaker)
• Absurd burst be it condi or phys (even if you cc them, if you can't pile it on then it's pointless)
• No stealth (it will be pointless as they literally spam reveal with zero effort)
• Boon corruption (because they have permanent almost every single boon for 20+ seconds)

Not broken at all btw.

Not bias/hyperbole at all btw.

[Razor.6392]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Razor.6392 said:A class that has:

• Infinite evades or damage mitigation or both (every CC of theirs you have to dodge or stun break otherwise you eat dat sweet perma-quickness deeps burst)
• Good cc (they have one stun breaker)
• Absurd burst be it condi or phys (even if you cc them, if you can't pile it on then it's pointless)
• No stealth (it will be pointless as they literally spam reveal with zero effort)
• Boon corruption (because they have permanent almost every single boon for 20+ seconds)

Not broken at all btw.

Not bias/hyperbole at all btw.

It really isn't though! You must dodge all CC's unless you can eat them with stab, then kite or mitigate the quickness enhanced stuff while trying to apply pressure through an assbucket of boons and the best heal skill in the game.

If you're winning enjoy stealth reset, provided you didn't die or start the fight at 50% hp thanks to it earlier in the opening.

[draxynnic.3719]

From experience playing holo (albeit a couple of seasons ago)

What generally made me feel like I was getting countered was basically anything that could put out sustained heavy ranged damage while keeping out of reach. While holosmith does have some projectile hate, the duration is relatively short: holoforge itself doesn't offer any, and most holosmiths are likely to be running rifle, which doesn't offer much defence against ranged attacks. If they're running rifle, just focus on avoidance (or flanking shots) while the photon wall is up and unless once it's down again. If they're running sword/shield they'll have a bit more defence, but they won't be able to apply ranged counterpressure in return.

Also, if you really want to punish them, you can try forcing them into an overheat.

[Naxos.2503]

As a holo myself, generally : CC > Power, or straight Condi does the trick. Holos are generally so focused on damage, they frequently have very little to no protection. Their damage comes from their Momentum. So -yes- if you dodge the initial CC, you've more or less won.

Also agreed with draxynnic. Ranged is a pain, no matter what they're using. Ranged weapons on engineer is all around subpar.

[RisenHowl.2419]

[Bast.7253]

Condi daredevil, usually. Unless they're actually good and not just playing holo because a 3 month old 1 armed baby could play it semi-successfully.

People always say to dodge certain skills. But like, the entire screen is lit up with every other skill, so I never really know what to look for.

And if you dodge the knockdown, you have to save some dodges for the two knockbacks. And the holo 2 pistol blast. And the net immob if you don't have los.

And if you successfully dodge all those and get 25% health down, surprise, they've used any number of their two leap water combos, or their turret. Oh, now they've stealthed and reset their health and cooldowns. Time to dodge again.

It feels like what they've done with mirage, repeatedly nerfed or gutted certain aspects of it but the design in general just has such a major toolkit that there's really no way to even balance it without redesigning the entire spec.

It almost feels like they were less of a problem when the dodge bomb kit was meta, because at least then you didn't have all of this passive toolbelt damage and constant quickness and superspeed and everything else to go along with it.

Maybe their current toolkit would be fine if their damage was nerfed significantly more, so it was less about spamming and more about chaining combos. Right now it's just too easy to kill stuff without all those skillfully coordinated abilities. I mean it's great for me, because I'm bad, and I can hop on holo in a low ranked or unranked match and feel like I'm just so good at the game, but when half or more of the pvp lobby arena are holos at any given time and they're all legendary or plat, I feel like that's a pretty good indication that something is a bit off.

[Naxos.2503]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Condi daredevil, usually. Unless they're actually good and not just playing holo because a 3 month old 1 armed baby could play it semi-successfully.

People always say to dodge certain skills. But like, the entire screen is lit up with every other skill, so I never really know what to look for.

And if you dodge the knockdown, you have to save some dodges for the two knockbacks. And the holo 2 pistol blast. And the net immob if you don't have los.

And if you successfully dodge all those and get 25% health down, surprise, they've used any number of their two leap water combos, or their turret. Oh, now they've stealthed and reset their health and cooldowns. Time to dodge again.

It feels like what they've done with mirage, repeatedly nerfed or gutted certain aspects of it but the design in general just has such a major toolkit that there's really no way to even balance it without redesigning the entire spec.

It almost feels like they were less of a problem when the dodge bomb kit was meta, because at least then you didn't have all of this passive toolbelt damage and constant quickness and superspeed and everything else to go along with it.

Maybe their current toolkit would be fine if their damage was nerfed significantly more, so it was less about spamming and more about chaining combos. Right now it's just too easy to kill stuff without all those skillfully coordinated abilities. I mean it's great for me, because I'm bad, and I can hop on holo in a low ranked or unranked match and feel like I'm just so good at the game, but when half or more of the pvp lobby arena are holos at any given time and they're all legendary or plat, I feel like that's a pretty good indication that something is a bit off.

That's not realistic though : If you have a pistol, you dont have a net. Among a lot of other things.

How to know when to dodge is simple, the big CC of a Holo is Holographic Wave, the Holo will leap upward and slam down. Start your dodge after the leap. The knockdown also have a fairly long cooldown, if you're playing against a highly aggressive Holo, they'll enter holo forge 1 time without CC before using it again (First Holo forge use holographic wave, second holo forge, wave is in cooldown, third holo forge, wave is available again.) The stealth require a utility slot to be specifically assigned to Stealth Elixir, which is a Huge loss in DPS. If you have soft CC on them, such as cripple or slow, a simple area of affect will damage them and break stealth. Also what is that talk of resetting cooldowns ? When have holo been able to reset their cooldowns ?

To wit, the latest patch has made Toolbelt barely useable on Holo as it stands. If you use holoforge, you run the risk of a player CCing you at the end of your forge, and overheat, locking all your toolbelt skills, ontop of the burn and initial damage. That is a Brutal counter. I have to ponder why it isn't used as such

[Bast.7253]

@Naxos.2503 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Condi daredevil, usually. Unless they're actually good and not just playing holo because a 3 month old 1 armed baby could play it semi-successfully.

People always say to dodge certain skills. But like, the entire screen is lit up with every other skill, so I never really know what to look for.

And if you dodge the knockdown, you have to save some dodges for the two knockbacks. And the holo 2 pistol blast. And the net immob if you don't have los.

And if you successfully dodge all those and get 25% health down, surprise, they've used any number of their two leap water combos, or their turret. Oh, now they've stealthed and reset their health and cooldowns. Time to dodge again.

It feels like what they've done with mirage, repeatedly nerfed or gutted certain aspects of it but the design in general just has such a major toolkit that there's really no way to even balance it without redesigning the entire spec.

It almost feels like they were less of a problem when the dodge bomb kit was meta, because at least then you didn't have all of this passive toolbelt damage and constant quickness and superspeed and everything else to go along with it.

Maybe their current toolkit would be fine if their damage was nerfed significantly more, so it was less about spamming and more about chaining combos. Right now it's just too easy to kill stuff without all those skillfully coordinated abilities. I mean it's great for me, because I'm bad, and I can hop on holo in a low ranked or unranked match and feel like I'm just so good at the game, but when half or more of the pvp lobby arena are holos at any given time and they're all legendary or plat, I feel like that's a pretty good indication that something is a bit off.

That's not realistic though : If you have a pistol, you dont have a net. Among a lot of other things.

How to know when to dodge is simple, the big CC of a Holo is Holographic Wave, the Holo will leap upward and slam down. Start your dodge after the leap. The knockdown also have a fairly long cooldown, if you're playing against a highly aggressive Holo, they'll enter holo forge 1 time without CC before using it again (First Holo forge use holographic wave, second holo forge, wave is in cooldown, third holo forge, wave is available again.) The stealth require a utility slot to be specifically assigned to Stealth Elixir, which is a Huge loss in DPS. If you have soft CC on them, such as cripple or slow, a simple area of affect will damage them and break stealth. Also what is that talk of resetting cooldowns ? When have holo been able to reset their cooldowns ?

To wit, the latest patch has made Toolbelt barely useable on Holo as it stands. If you use holoforge, you run the risk of a player CCing you at the end of your forge, and overheat, locking all your toolbelt skills, ontop of the burn and initial damage. That is a Brutal counter. I have to ponder why it isn't used as such

The pistol I meant is holo forge 2. The high damage one. Well, one of them. Lol