Match Quality without DuoQ is amazing

[Zagerus.8675]

Usually whenever I face DuoQ's the matches are blowout 510-36 matches. Most of the players on my team can never get out of spawn and it turns into a ragefest, people give up and it's a free win for the team with a DuoQ. DuoQ's often profession stack, trade cooldowns ect in a very organized fashion making it incredibly difficult for random (but mechanically sound) players to get any sort of leverage in a fight, even if they play well and land critical combos that would otherwise secure fights vs uncoordinated SoloQ'ers.

In contrast, matches where there are no duo q's usually are very good 500-350+ games. You can clearly see/feel what team-fight/1v1 wins led to the upper hand and eventual match win. DuoQ is just whipe mid, trade kiting cd's and then push far and farm on respawn. That just wouldn't happen that often in a SoloQ only environment. As evidence to just how effective and easy wins are as DuoQ, if you look at the rating of everyone on the leaderboard, most of the DuoQ players have bubbled up to the top while the SoloQ only players struggle to push past Plat 2. Plat 1 and Plat 2+ are where all of the decent DuoQ's sit.

When a new player comes to the game and gets pulled into matches where they constantly get farmed out of respawn, they probably won't want to log in again. At this point I think the problems that DuoQ causes outweigh the negatives of having SoloQ only. Both for the health of the game and the players.

[tacoclaw.8251]

Here's an idea: duoque puts you on opposite teams, winner take all in the duo.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@tacoclaw.8251 said:Here's an idea: duoque puts you on opposite teams, winner take all in the duo.

If the Duo partner on the opposite team wants to take a dive in that case, they easily could and boost their friend. Not to mention with top players spread out more evenly, that's basically SoloQ anyway.

[tacoclaw.8251]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@tacoclaw.8251 said:Here's an idea: duoque puts you on opposite teams, winner take all in the duo.

If the Duo partner on the opposite team wants to take a dive in that case, they easily could and boost their friend. Not to mention with top players spread out more evenly, that's basically SoloQ anyway.

Good point, so how about this: you can duoque, but you get no advancement in ranked, and you each only get 5 pips win or lose. After all, you are duoqueing for fun right?

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@tacoclaw.8251 said:Good point, so how about this: you can duoque, but you get no advancement in ranked, and you each only get 5 pips win or lose. After all, you are duoqueing for fun right?

Thank you for being level-headed \o/

The problem there is, a lot of the people who DuoQ do so at the very highest level of the game. If you stop them from advancing, they're just more likely to get matched with lower-rated players.

A lot of the time it's not even about playing with friends either, common as the excuse is. If you go on Twitch and look back at VODs or watch top players play the game, or even YouTubers like WP; you see a lot of them don't even bother to communicate with one and other. To them DuoQ is a straight advantage, and that's a big part of the reason people use it.

If people wanted it to be solely about playing with friends, they'd want to split Duos and any other option to play in teams separate from SoloQ. That; imo, is the only way to make DuoQ work in this game.

[Fueki.4753]

Duo Queue has no reason to exists in the current pvp system.But matching platinum ranked players with silver ones shouldn't be a thing either.

They should at least have duos fight ONLY against teams with duos as well.If they want to duo Queue, they should endure a longer queue.

But seeing how often I have matches with (what I assume to be) two duet vs 5 solo people, I doubt that'll ever change.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@tacoclaw.8251 said:Here's an idea: duoque puts you on opposite teams, winner take all in the duo.

This would be wintrader heaven.

1000x no.

[xp eke xp.6724]

@ most contra duo-qers:why are there still so many players that never duo-q or are at all against it? I have so many reasons why duo-q is much more enjoyable then soloing, but till know have not even one (outside of, cause you want it) to do not.

So my list looks like that:

• reasons why duo-q is bad

  1. cause i loose against duo-qs more?
  2. cause the matches feel fairer if you have solo vs solo/ duo vs duo? (means you dont even tested how it is to play the other part). => pls test out how it is to solo, to duo and seperate them also on what your fighting against (are they also solo/duo? did they have from start on a worser teamcomb and so on)Adding points from multicolorhipster:
  3. No cap on how far apart two ratings can queue together means a legendary player can queue with a gold, silver, or even bronze with the intent to snipe players of lower ranking.
  4. DuoQ changes the game to be less about the competition and more about the advantage it gives and farming. Higher rated DuoQs pulling lower-ranked players to their team nearly every game, or cheating the matchmaker in the aforementioned way to lower the average rating of everyone in their match.
  5. The population cannot support it. The amount of people who Solo compared to DuoQ is way too significant to give such a minority of players a straight boon. The obvious response there is just going to be "get gud or get a duo of your own" but again, the population is so low that finding someone you trust, and/or want to play with at low-mid level ratings makes the process of finding a duo partner even harder, and actually getting better at PvP nearly impossible.
  6. DuoQ has wrecked the Leaderboards.
  7. DuoQing encourages metagaming. Class switching before a round starts, queue-dodging, queue-sniping.
  8. DuoQ promotes and is used to facilitate match manipulation and cheese tactics that aren't technically match manipulation, but come awfully close.

• reasons why duo-q is good

  1. more fun
  2. you have less gamble (still too high but it is less!)
  3. you can avoid one duo-class of your choice (by duoclassing that profesion and rerolling)
  4. it is easy to get 1 player for duo-qing (solo-qing is also easy, but the point is more: your not doing something complettely imposible and cause of that you arent getting a disadvantage => you choose your own if you want to have one by not duo-qing!)
  5. you learn better to play with your team (and even better if you use ts/discord with your partner)

Maybe my list is incomplete, your welcome to help me out.

Now lets take a list what speaks for/against solo-qing:

• why solo-q is good

  1. the matches are more difficult (btw not everyone count that as a +point...)

• why its bad

  1. you have more gamble
  2. its more frustrading, to have even less influence on the match
  3. cause of that, the chances get higher you start to be toxic or someone will flame you
  4. most players start being egoistic and get blind about the team support (so you dont even realise that someone helped you)

Atm if i take both sides, it would be make more sence to take solo-q out (btw for me it is better if we still have both options! => we need an option to have higher difficulties by solo-qing and we need duo-q)

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@xp eke xp.6724 said:@ most contra duo-qers:So my list looks like that:

• reasons why duo-q is bad
  1. cause i loose against duo-qs more?
  2. cause the matches feel fairer if you have solo vs solo/ duo vs duo? (means you dont even tested how it is to play the other part). => pls test out how it is to solo, to duo and seperate them also on what your fighting against (are they also solo/duo? did they have from start on a worser teamcomb and so on)

Add to that:

3. No cap on how far apart two ratings can queue together means a legendary player can queue with a gold, silver, or even bronze with the intent to snipe players of lower ranking.
4. DuoQ changes the game to be less about the competition and more about the advantage it gives and farming. Higher rated DuoQs pulling lower-ranked players to their team nearly every game, or cheating the matchmaker in the aforementioned way to lower the average rating of everyone in their match.
5. The population cannot support it. The amount of people who Solo compared to DuoQ is way too significant to give such a minority of players a straight boon. The obvious response there is just going to be "get gud or get a duo of your own" but again, the population is so low that finding someone you trust, and/or want to play with at low-mid level ratings makes the process of finding a duo partner even harder, and actually getting better at PvP nearly impossible.
6. DuoQ has wrecked the Leaderboards.
7. DuoQing encourages metagaming. Class switching before a round starts, queue-dodging, queue-sniping.
8. DuoQ promotes and is used to facilitate match manipulation and cheese tactics that aren't technically match manipulation, but come awfully close.

• reasons why duo-q is good

7. more fun

8. you have less gamble (still too high but it is less!)

9. you can avoid one duo-class of your choice (by duoclassing that profesion and rerolling)

(9)This is one of those Metagaming cheese strats I just mentioned. For a SoloQ players, changing profession just to queuedodge a Duo is not only pretty disheartening for the SoloQ player, but doesn't even guarantee it'l work because they have 4 other teammates that could be playing the profession they're trying to avoid. Whereas a Duo can reliably force whatever class they want on the opposite team.

10. it is easy to get 1 player for duo-qing (solo-qing is also easy, but the point is more: your not doing something complettely imposible and cause of that you arent getting a disadvantage => you choose your own if you want to have one by not duo-qing!)

11. you learn better to play with your team (and even better if you use ts/discord with your partner)

Maybe my list is incomplete, your welcome to help me out.

Now lets take a list what speaks for/against solo-qing:

• why solo-q is good

7. the matches are more difficult (btw not everyone count that as a +point...)

• why its bad

7. you have more gamble

8. its more frustrading, to have even less influence on the match

9. cause of that, the chances get higher you start to be toxic or someone will flame you

10. most players start being egoistic and get blind about the team support (so you dont even realise that someone helped you)

Your #9 and your #10 are pretty subjective. Toxicity exists either way, because you're still forcing SoloQ players to play with DuoQ players. The only way to help eliminate toxicity is to split the people who like to play in teams from the people who like to play Solo. Even then, people will still find a way to be toxic; so map/say chat should probably be disabled.

Egotism exists in both worlds, and i'd blame that moreso on how Arenanet caters to very top% of players at every turn than I would either queue style. I get that anyone can be egotistical, but I don't know how many times i've heard "Who are you?" or have been talked down to in a way that suggests i'm worse at the game, therefore my opinion is invalid from the top player base. That's also coming from people that have wintraded and been proven guilty for it sometimes multiple times. No matter how deeply rooted one may appear into an ego trip, just remember there are people with actual god complexes that play this game.

Atm if i take both sides, it would be make more sence to take solo-q out (btw for me it is better if we still have both options! => we need an option to have higher difficulties by solo-qing and we need duo-q)

Taking SoloQ out is not taking both sides. Eliminating the majority of the ranked player base is in no way fair, rational, or diplomatic.

Right now these options you speak of don't exist, because if you choose to SoloQ; you choose to play at a disadvantage among people that don't. For there to be options, the queues would have to be split between Solos and Teams. That's how you give people literal options.

[xp eke xp.6724]

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" Added your points for duo-qyou have some also for/against solo-q?

And i desided to take comments out, so everyone can see the list and make theyr own comment to it. Was a good idea?^^Btw i still think ranked is a gamble mode, but i let your point about "more compeditive aspect" inside ;)

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"xp eke xp.6724" said:Added your points for duo-q

I am honored

you have some also for/against solo-q?

And i desided to take comments out, so everyone can see the list and make theyr own comment to it. Was a good idea?^^Btw i still think ranked is a gamble mode, but i let your point about "more compeditive aspect" inside ;)

I don't have anything to add, no. SoloQ is a big gamble that can get a little frustrating, so I totally get why people don't like it. They should have the option to play with friends if they want to, just split from the SoloQ players.

Being more competitive covers a lot of things, so I don't see the need to add things like "More fair", "More fun for some people", "Less metagaming and match manipulation" to me that would just be redundant. The way I see ranked in any game is that it's all about the competition. Games that are too easy or too hard to carry due to lower-ranked players being tossed in are a huge turnoff for me, and apparently a few other people too.

Splitting the queues would not require some dramatic overhaul of ranked or even that much effort really, and would please the people who want to play in teams and the SoloQ players. If both options were more fair, I think it likely people would try both.

[DoomNexus.5324]

How about splitting the queues into solo only, mixed (4+1 and 2+3 only) and full team only?Oh no wait.. the population is too low right? Guess we then have to wait for enough people to leave so the population gets low enough to not even sustain solo queue with reasonable matchmaking/queue times even during peak hours anymore and Anet can finally shut the whole game mode down.

[Lighter.5631]

when majority of the player base sucks, having a stacked duoq means auto win, with a really low chance of losing for getting player worse then bots and also against stacked team. specially you have a bunker and a roamer stack, it doesn't take a lot of skill to get top rank, throw in some fotm cheese build and you get easy top rank.

when facing a duoq, even you are better then duoq, as long as they win every other fight without you in it, they win and you lose. having two means they win twice as much fight as you being one. you win every single fight you are in yet your team still get rolled else where and be like 200-500 sure is fun.

now i don't even try, there's no point, ranking is not about skill but if you duoq or not.