Why do people like WvW?

[steki.1478]

@noot.8641 said:

If you say this, you don't do any 1v1's or small scale combat.

Yet you spit random facts about blob fights because you've never played those, just seen how they look like.

How are you so certain i don't know how to play in large scale fights? I've been playing this game from launch, exclusively WvW. What about you?

Because your facts are wrong.

In 1v1 or small scale, u actually need some skill to kill an enemy.

This heavily depends on the class and build, but as I said, most of them require no skills. Ele and thief are probably the only ones that can be excluded from that majority, but even thief has some of the cheesiest builds in the game.

Every class has cheesy builds, you can say what you want, but in a 1v1 u need skill bro. (to actually win it, from a decent player ofc)

Why are you comparing high skill duels to low skilled blobs then? It's same like me saying that 2 minionmancers dueling takes no skill because it's their minions who are fighting, not them and you dont need brain to control AI. Warr takes skills when half of its kit are passive procs? It takes skills to stack stealth and shadowstep+backstab someone? Merge with pet and cast 2? Please.

In blobbing, u just follow the tag, u don't need to think, u just listen to what the tag says.

Wrong. Warrs need good positioning or they are useless. Eles need good positioning and skill rotations or they are useless. Commander cant call every action on every class at the same time so you have to pay attention to what you're casting and when you're casting it. If you just listened to what the comm said, every server would be good at fighting, but that's far from truth.

Ofcourse, some classes need good positioning, but how many warriors and ele's are there in a squad :D? I'm not talking about posistioning and pressing 1 skill here, ok?In general u listen to the tag, if tag tells u to stop, u stop. If tag tell u to go, u go. U DON'T NEED A BRAIN FOR THAT.

Positioning is the main part of the blobbing though. The fact that you don't know that tells me that you have no idea about zerg fights whether you started yesterday or at launch. What does amount of wars and eles in squad have to do with anything? 90% of the roamers are lb soulbesats and gs spellbreakers. Both of them are the most braindead builds that wvw has. How many of skilled classes are there for roaming? How many players are playing them?

I mean, large scale can be fun tho, but without a tag, otherwise it's just Scourge, FB spam all the way. FUN FUN

Scourge and FB are in the best case 50% of the organized squad. Bad boon uptime and barrier cast = you're dead. Not enough corrupts on enemy when they push = you're dead. Spam random buttons = you're useless (unless you're playing some foolproof support build like staff tempest).

they make 50% out of the squad, that's A LOT, how many other classes are there in the game xD?

What does the amount of classes have to do with them being 50% of the squad? What's the difference between roaming fb and blobbing fb? They take same skills and require the same amount of effort.

Large scale fights with no comms are clown fiesta that you like calling random skill spam. Spam stuff from max range and run away when enemy gets close. I like the play style too, but it's far from anything skilled. You're just hoping that your allies arent braindead and know how to cast skills and even then it's just RNG and constant reruns from spawn. When fights are organized you at least know where and when the group damage is happening.

In those kinda fights, it takes a lot more individual skill bro. (Which most blobbers don't have)

You dont even have an impact in such fights. It's essentially 1v40, with another 40 players playing on their own. EB without tag is 24/7 pointless fights where nobody wins because nobody actually does anything. All pokes from max range or random yolos by 10 sec invuln warrs or permastealth thieves.

Not to mention permanent garri farms where people just cloud around and die over and over again until they kill the enemy blob after 30 minutes. Much personal impact.

U can say what u want, but i'm sure ppl who actually like to PvP will agree on that.

Ofc pvp people will agree when they like and play 5v5 content. Wvw isnt 5v5 content though.

When i'm talking about PvP, i'm not talking about sPvP.PvP = player vs player.the 5v5 you are talking about, is sPvP = Structured PvP

5v5 is as much of a pvp as 50v50. Just because you dont like it and you dont know how to play it (probably because your class is unviable there, which makes sense considering how clueless you are), doesnt mean that others dont like it and dont know how to play it.

Reevaluate your arguments and then comment, because so far, everything you said about blobbing can be said/used against roaming as well.

[XenesisII.1540]

@mattster.9847 said:I'm curious. I want to know why people like WvW. I decided to try for the mount just for the sake of having it but it seems like WvW 95% of the time is just running around empty castles and killing key NPCs or giant fights between players that seems to mostly be just people pressing keys until everyone around them dies without much real thought. I just don't really get it so I'm curious if anyone can tell me why it could be fun.

Because you essentially ran around in the wvw version of k-train instead of say an organized fractal or raid group. That's the low level of wvw, when you delved deeper into wvw there's a lot of things that can be done and can happen in random fashion. There's challenges for different sized groups, you could be a roamer and test your skills in 1v1's or 1v2's, you could be a havoc group of 3-5 (or gankers of 3-5 to kill roamers) that goes around trying to well cause havoc in taking small objectives, being a thorn in bigger group sizes by picking off their slackers or reinforcements, you could be a zerg, either under a pug commander or a guild commander taking the bigger objectives, or even more serious in an organized gvg guild that purely want to fight in a synergized group to take on equal or bigger groups, or just join a map blob and run most things over with numbers.

The beauty of wvw is almost every encounter can be different because of the random factors in how a situation can play out, your own/your group/your enemies play style and skill level and awareness and responses, random reinforcements join in, timely kills for rallies, timely use of skills to save someone or even a group, siege effects, counter plays, ambushes, even a scout call in team chat for something can make a difference, etc. Yes sometimes there can be down times and there's running, same thing in pve when you run from event to event, and then you also get into fights that can last anywhere from 1-20 mins.

I love wvw because of how random a fight can go, the environment plays a part on how encounters will go, over coming situations that even right down to the wire seems meek, but your side manages to rally and make some quick thinking slick plays and pull out a win from a bigger force, that feels rewarding.

Too bad balance in population, class, skills, all suck.

[noot.8641]

How are you so certain i don't know how to play in large scale fights? I've been playing this game from launch, exclusively WvW. What about you?

Because your facts are wrong.What facts, can u elaborate? It seems you know my time ingame better than myself.

Every class has cheesy builds, you can say what you want, but in a 1v1 u need skill bro. (to actually win it, from a decent player ofc)

Why are you comparing high skill duels to low skilled blobs then? It's same like me saying that 2 minionmancers dueling takes no skill because it's their minions who are fighting, not them and you dont need brain to control AI. Warr takes skills when half of its kit are passive procs? It takes skills to stack stealth and shadowstep+backstab someone? Merge with pet and cast 2? Please.Who said anything about high skilled duels? I just said "decent", that's not high skill fyi.I clearly see you're a warrior main, but you gotta face it dude, the only thing u do in a blob is get a position and use ur elite, that's ur job, idk why u make it seem like it's smth highly skilled.

Positioning is the main part of the blobbing though. The fact that you don't know that tells me that you have no idea about zerg fights whether you started yesterday or at launch. What does amount of wars and eles in squad have to do with anything? 90% of the roamers are lb soulbesats and gs spellbreakers. Both of them are the most braindead builds that wvw has. How many of skilled classes are there for roaming? How many players are playing them?Yes, i know that's the main part, and who controlls that part you think? oh shit, that's right, the commander.

they make 50% out of the squad, that's A LOT, how many other classes are there in the game xD?

What does the amount of classes have to do with them being 50% of the squad? What's the difference between roaming fb and blobbing fb? They take same skills and require the same amount of effort.Well, tbh quite a lot.. If you don't see that, then there is my point.

In those kinda fights, it takes a lot more individual skill bro. (Which most blobbers don't have)

You dont even have an impact in such fights. It's essentially 1v40, with another 40 players playing on their own. EB without tag is 24/7 pointless fights where nobody wins because nobody actually does anything. All pokes from max range or random yolos by 10 sec invuln warrs or permastealth thieves.

Not to mention permanent garri farms where people just cloud around and die over and over again until they kill the enemy blob after 30 minutes. Much personal impact.You might not make an impact in such a fight, because you're used to blobbing, but i know i do make an impact in such fights.These kinda fights are way more fun than listening to somebody till he say that u can push.

When i'm talking about PvP, i'm not talking about sPvP.PvP = player vs player.the 5v5 you are talking about, is sPvP = Structured PvP

5v5 is as much of a pvp as 50v50. Just because you dont like it and you dont know how to play it (probably because your class is unviable there, which makes sense considering how clueless you are), doesnt mean that others dont like it and dont know how to play it.

Reevaluate your arguments and then comment, because so far, everything you said about blobbing can be said/used against roaming as well.

Well if it is as much pvp as the other one, why would u bring up a 5v5 sPvP mode when we are talking about WvW all this time?And lol, it rly seems you know me better than myself.. Who said i didn't like sPvP? Get yr FACTS straight before trying to make an argument, cuz u fail big time @ it.The only thing i'm pointing out here, is that blobbing takes less individual skill than small scale/1v1.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@TheBravery.9615 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:it's not about the ppt

It's about the 20 vs 20 clashes, or the 5 vs 20 clashes- the satisfaction of zergbusting, the satisfaction of destroying your enemy.

Here, conan explains better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

Also to add, it's a far more complex fight environment, unlike PvE which is a moronic dpsfest

Unfortunately wvw is dead so OP will probably never experience this.

The term "Dead" seems to get thrown around all willy nilly. I don't usually see WvW dead as there are always groups running somewhere in every one of my matchups.

[Gop.8713]

I like it bc it's player-created content and therefore always available. No game developer could hope to release content at a pace that would keep me consistently entertained, but by creating a mode where the players do it for them, they have. That's why it's so frustrating when they don't do a better job of supporting it. Ofc the same could be said for the players as well . . .

[Defias.1892]

Because it's large-scale PVP that most games don't have. WoW had AV/IoC but people eventually stopped doing it, or it just got really boring because most spells in that game aren't based around Mass PVP. ESO has Cyrodiil, but thats an absolute aidsfest because the most popular bracket is 700 CP and it takes a helluva long time to get 700 CP, i think they might have even raised it to 800 CP now. So if you are below 700 CP, all you can do is spam abilities, stay back, and hope that a random player with full gear and full CP doesn't sneeze on you. Meanwhile, WvW is equalized for lowbies and generally fun for most players. Though I do wish it got more updates

[mattster.9847]

This has been interesting to read everybody responses but most of them come down to small groups or raid parties and not giant death balls. But I feel like that is the statistically worse approach to it. The ball I was part of just ported back to the camp whenever a raid party started taking adjacent areas and just rolled over them. The only thing that stopped us was a larger raid party. Maybe its just because I main as a healer guardian but the large scale stuff just seemed really poor. Its hard to do anything for anyone when they pop in 3 seconds even when you pop a bunch of condi cleanse and drop healing all over them.

[SexyMofo.8923]

I can attack devs and get an achievement.

[Magnuzone.8395]

@"bluberblasen.9684" said:

i like walking with my charakter, waving the good and the bad guys. Kill them , dont kill them, ignore them run away from them, troll them.Flip some camps, maybe some towers or keeps. Giving enemy positions to my server, beeing the first one defending objects.its the "freedom" of a roamer. ( playing in zerg is like wearing a straightjacket )

And I'm the complete opposite. =)

I dont like roaming at all. I like the thrill of a big zerg fight. Playing frontline and trying to stay alive in the middle of all the chaos. Running through a sea of red rings, timing my skills correctly, and if Im playing FB, keeping my entire party alive too. Staying sticky with a tag while he/she's screaming on TS.

And that has been the beauty of WvW, that there is room for both roamers and groups.

[zinkz.7045]

For the most part, people don't, which is why RvR type modes aren't very popular.

The novelty of large scale combat wears off for most people, so then you are left with what is largely uncompetitive, low quality, relatively mindless PvP, which becomes dull for most people, but then a few enjoy that...

[Anput.4620]

@Magnuzone.8395 said:

@"bluberblasen.9684" said:

i like walking with my charakter, waving the good and the bad guys. Kill them , dont kill them, ignore them run away from them, troll them.Flip some camps, maybe some towers or keeps. Giving enemy positions to my server, beeing the first one defending objects.its the "freedom" of a roamer. ( playing in zerg is like wearing a straightjacket )

And I'm the complete opposite. =)

I dont like roaming at all. I like the thrill of a big zerg fight. Playing frontline and trying to stay alive in the middle of all the chaos. Running through a sea of red rings, timing my skills correctly, and if Im playing FB, keeping my entire party alive too. Staying sticky with a tag while he/she's screaming on TS.

And that has been the beauty of WvW, that there is room for both roamers and groups.

I am playing a game right now based around RvR, there are no handholding carebear mechanisms, if you get caught you will fight or die most of the time, unless you wear lighter armor and have more stamina and don't get slowed down by being hit with a bow, dying means you lose 1 piece of equipment which they can loot and the game is totally around the big fights.

Guess what, the average player quality/skill level is miles higher than this games average will ever be, as is the quality of fights.

There are also zero complaints about getting killed in PvP combat, unlike this game, and poeple play for fights, not to take empty castles for meager rewards.

[SnowMochi.7602]

Well, before other annoyances diluted my enjoyment of the mode, my guild and I loved helping to keep my home borderlands squeaky clean and out of the hands of filthy invaders.There's also the thrill of encountering said enemy players and seeing how well I survive against their efforts; PvE mobs will react according to a script but the human player has that element of unpredictability that adds another level of excitement.

But, it's not for everyone. And even within the game mode, people will have their own preferences and I'm okay with that.

[Sviel.7493]

@mattster.9847 said:This has been interesting to read everybody responses but most of them come down to small groups or raid parties and not giant death balls. But I feel like that is the statistically worse approach to it. The ball I was part of just ported back to the camp whenever a raid party started taking adjacent areas and just rolled over them. The only thing that stopped us was a larger raid party. Maybe its just because I main as a healer guardian but the large scale stuff just seemed really poor. Its hard to do anything for anyone when they pop in 3 seconds even when you pop a bunch of condi cleanse and drop healing all over them.

I play WvW for the territory control aspect. It's difficult to explain how excited I get about that part--I can open the map and see what Yaks are missing from their routes in a heartbeat, and the adrenaline boost I get when tracking down roamers is how I know I'm a nerd.

So when your giant death ball tries to take my stuff, I go to all out supply warfare. It doesn't matter how many people you bring if you can't build siege, and if you aren't going to split and attack from multiple points, you're going to go through hell to crack any T2+ Keep I own. I'll control the supply camps and slow down your conquest so that every time you port to go steamroll some poor small team squad, you lose ground.

This is much more fun to me than the death ball, though some people obviously prefer to blob about. That's all good. WvW is best when there is a diversity of playstyles vying against each other. If you're not having fun in the blob, you can try several other things or even make something up. I had my best fun when I was running with a defensive Havoc squad--we couldn't fight blobs head on, but we could slow them down enough that they weren't very viable. High risks, high stakes, losing every battle but sometimes winning the war. Perhaps I'm a bit of a masochist...

[Sovereign.1093]

i have a checklist of what i consider a good game

1. effort = reward (/)
2. pk = (/)
3. needs team work (/)
4. multiple roles (/)
5. story (/)
6. graphics (/)

gw2 has these, so, i continue to play.

i dont really care what the majority of players think, because they don't pay me to play.

i used to let the oppinion of the loud voices in forums or rumors, but that got me to thinking, who are these people, what are their opinions to me? how am i letting their voices affect my own enjoyment?

so, i just stick to my own checklist. and doing so, i am happy.

sure i want new content and other stuff, but, thats not my main concern.

i like the following changes

from paid repair to 0.paid change traits to 0.paid upgrades to 0.tactics thru guildsentries useless, to now reports location of enemies.orange swords from 5 to atleast 20 attacking.ewp versus the clickinginvuldifferent mechanics and sieges.slow movement to mountsglidevariety of buildsmultiple maps

what i miss:tournaments.there simply are a lot or sourgrapes. so what if people double team or buy guilds or stack?

what i changed my opinion of

glicko > one up one down. both can be manipulated, but, matching may require additional factors than simply winning the week.

what i hate

to many tiers and links.bugs/hacksthe ping

what id like to see.

seasons in wvw.

from where we are all booted from wvw and

also automated reset of structures from tier 3 to 0 every x period. like every 4 hours. or make structures like eotm. maxed out already, the upgrade can simply.be in the form of tactics.

i need my small char siege razer/crusher tonic.

dolyak mount. skins for sieges x skills. skins for structures.

new maps.

make water weapons useful

i cant touch timezone imbalance. but if structures reset periodically, it wont hurt as much since, you dont have to log in with few and fight tier 3 structures.

what is needed now:

beta testing the ideas. we need a public test server. and we need devs to keep an open mind. sure you guys know how to build games, but it is we who will choose to spend our cash.

<3<3<3

tldr. i like wvw. i dont care what others think. wvw needs seasons and tournaments. we need beta testing. devs need feedback.

[Daxia.1425]

I like to play against people and not playing against scripted events like in pve.

[KeyOrion.9506]

I like WvW, because it's a big improvement over Hall of Heroes. In Hall of Heroes, players got to the point of excluding other players just because of "Rank". "If you are not rank 6+ you can't join"....In WvW...you can't be excluded for any reason by any player. It's a BIG step up. I like it to, just to stomp Hall of Hero players from GW1 :D

[Gop.8713]

@Sovereign.1093 said:snip

I disagree with a lot of that, but I like that you have a considered opinion . . .

[FrigginPaco.4178]

The sense of scale. Seeing several catapults chuck rocks at great velocity to your tiny tower wall as you and a handful of others frantically attempt to hold out as you get reinforcements only to arrive just in the nick of time to beat back the heathens. It's very gratifying when it works out, but can be pretty epic if you fail too.

Occasionally, I like to stomp on a kitten. Yes, a kitten. Or another player, whichever comes first. :P Sometimes the fights are easy, sometimes I run into the same guy 5 times and can't win. Sometimes it's stalemate city, so maybe you bow and go your separate ways. The World[vWorld] is your oyster.

Killing time between updates. Welp, I think it's better I just leave it at that.

It's nice to run around with your guild and pretend you know what you're doing. Sometimes, you even get some neato objectives, acquire pips, etc.

It's a unique game mode that rewards player ability and coordination. My group isn't quite there yet, but maybe one day?

[Knighthonor.4061]

@noot.8641 said:What you refer to is “blobbing” it’s the most boring part of wvw, but yet it is the part that anet caters to.Try running around solo or with some friends, and do some small scale combat. (Well it used to be fun, but arenanet killed it some time ago)F

This why WvW need improved PvPvE elements with stronger NPCs, Mobile sieges and outpost building, and smaller objectives. Also needs a new Rez system than the waypoints.

[Optimator.3589]

We don't enjoy WvW all that much all that often anymore. We're just waiting for something better.

It's a stagnant and neglected game mode with a dwindling playerbase and some very glaring flaws. If/when another MMO with large scale PvP and a decent combat system comes out, you can stick a fork in WvW. It's done.

[Rednik.3809]

Because this is still the most fun and nicely done mass pvp environment among almost all modern MMOs. Yes, I played them.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Sovereign.1093 said:i have a checklist of what i consider a good game

1. effort = reward (/)
2. pk = (/)
3. needs team work (/)
4. multiple roles (/)
5. story (/)
6. graphics (/)

gw2 has these, so, i continue to play.

i dont really care what the majority of players think, because they don't pay me to play.

I have people pay me to play and I main WvW (with some JP's on the side) so I care what they think lol

[Mokk.2397]

@mattster.9847 said:I'm curious. I want to know why people like WvW. I decided to try for the mount just for the sake of having it but it seems like WvW 95% of the time is just running around empty castles and killing key NPCs or giant fights between players that seems to mostly be just people pressing keys until everyone around them dies without much real thought. I just don't really get it so I'm curious if anyone can tell me why it could be fun.

With the current Firebrand/Scourge Meta your right about it being mindless .But I like the unpredictability of playing against real people. PvE is fine but the events , bosses ,creatures and pretty much everything else is predictable.

[Defias.1892]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Magnuzone.8395 said:

@"bluberblasen.9684" said:

i like walking with my charakter, waving the good and the bad guys. Kill them , dont kill them, ignore them run away from them, troll them.Flip some camps, maybe some towers or keeps. Giving enemy positions to my server, beeing the first one defending objects.its the "freedom" of a roamer. ( playing in zerg is like wearing a straightjacket )

And I'm the complete opposite. =)

I dont like roaming at all. I like the thrill of a big zerg fight. Playing frontline and trying to stay alive in the middle of all the chaos. Running through a sea of red rings, timing my skills correctly, and if Im playing FB, keeping my entire party alive too. Staying sticky with a tag while he/she's screaming on TS.

And that has been the beauty of WvW, that there is room for both roamers and groups.

I am playing a game right now based around RvR, there are no handholding carebear mechanisms, if you get caught you will fight or die most of the time, unless you wear lighter armor and have more stamina and don't get slowed down by being hit with a bow, dying means you lose 1 piece of equipment which they can loot and the game is totally around the big fights.

Guess what, the average player quality/skill level is miles higher than this games average will ever be, as is the quality of fights.

There are also zero complaints about getting killed in PvP combat, unlike this game, and poeple play for fights, not to take empty castles for meager rewards.

What game is this?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

There's a couple of reasons I like it.

(1): The hunt. The thing about PVP is that is that it is all small-scale and you have to stand in the red circles to do anything. But in WvW I have a lot of wide open spaces. I can attack from any angle, and I have to watch my back. It is so fun to see somebody in the distance, stalk and hide to avoid their gaze, then suddenly approach and bury them into the ground.

(2): The mass impact. The other day, I climbed up on top of the gazebo on one of the towers. This was to get the vista. But, after I did this, 10 people approached and attacked the tower. They didn't know I was up there, and unlucky for them I was on a weaver. I quickly switched to full damage traits and a staff. Then, as they attacked the Champion, I unleashed Meteor Shower and then Ice Storm on their heads. They tried to escape, but 3 or so of my teammates arrived and pushed them back the ramp. Not knowing where the lava fonts and meteors were coming from, they assumed it was one of the teammates and felt secure in taking the tower again. They were quite wrong, and I dropped a second set of meteor storm. And that is how I won a 4 vs 10 fight.

You don't get this kind of stuff from PVP. In WvW, a few well placed skills with good tactics can change the flow of the fight. I've driven back zergs single-handed. There's nothing quite like that anywhere else in the game.

(3): The anonymity. One of the biggest reasons why I don't do PVP is that my in-game performance is declining, and everyone is counting on me. In a 5 vs 5, if I am to mess up, it could ruin the whole game for everyone. There are specific tactics that are expected of me, and I have no idea what those are. But in a 30 vs. 30, my personal mistakes matter very little. I can't be kicked out of the mode, and I can run off and do whatever I want. It is very freeing, lifting a great weight off of my shoulders. I just get to have fun.