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You engi players have lost your way


ellesee.8297

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I completely agree with you ellesee. I also play engi since launch and I dont like how "engineer" has evolved.Holosmith is a discount version of a strong short range fighter with literally no downsides, you have boon spam, high dps, high mobility and pretty good sustain.PvE, PvP and WvW is dominated by holosmiths, it prvides by far better results with less effort as core.

Some weeks ago I tried a solo roaming build (WvW) as a power core grenadier, the result of some hours roaming was pretty clear: Holosmith is by far superior and core is like downgrading myself. I had some good moments and challenging fights but most time I was on disadvantage when fighting against other powercreeped elite specs.Grenades suffers from to much sources: retalation, anti projectile, blocks (except #5) and even bad terrain...

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@Shao.7236 said:Here's an old montage of Core engineer I made, that is after PoF. Power and Condition included.The cast times on pistol are so abhorrent that it is useless at close range lol, this is the reason I have used rifle all these years.

@Naxos.2503 said:You misunderstand, but then again I wasn't explicit. I mean both Bombs and Grenade currently benefit condi more than they benefit Power. I want one to fit Condi, and one to benefit Power, to properly differentiate build and give everyone the same playing field.This is why I love the thread we have about kit reworks so much. Man, if we got that, a turret rework, and an elite gadget, boi. Engi would be SOLID.

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@"Matoro.9708" said:The cast times on pistol are so abhorrent that it is useless at close range lol, this is the reason I have used rifle all these years.Lol I find the rifle slow as kitten to use.

Did manage to get one decent 1v1 this evening out of the engie (vs mirage), most other fights was either with that 2 man (we rarely caught the mirage alone) or zergs. Guess we'll find out soon enough whether the nerfs will truly go through or not, but if they do I might stick to core for a while.

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@"ellesee.8297" said:Ya'll kill me with all this praise for holosmith as good as nades been to you. Back when you was core engi where was holosmith? You don't abandon ya folks that's been down from day one. You got a little xpac now so you too good for shrapnel nades? You gotta drop at least 12 hip shots chaith style for holosmith, but nades used to be 1500 range AND you get carpel tunnel from kit swapping. A lot of ya'll forgot where you came from and it's sad... Not me though. Nade kit until the day I die.

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:Lol I find the rifle slow as kitten to use.

Did manage to get one decent 1v1 this evening out of the engie (vs mirage), most other fights was either with that 2 man (we rarely caught the mirage alone) or zergs. Guess we'll find out soon enough whether the nerfs will truly go through or not, but if they do I might stick to core for a while.

I saw frag shot used once at the start and then at the end when he was downed and you could space properly. On a kitless build, I doubt this would've gone as well. Skill 3 against mesmer is great though, I can't argue that.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:pretty sure half of holos are actually warrior mainsi mean it is literally warrior with light saber and has tons of weapons in one set

It's literally Warrior except it has a burst heal and cleanse on demand.

Also it is a Warrior with Stealth.

Only one build plays like a Warrior. Some Other builds don't feel like Warrior. At least to me anyway

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I'm really not sure why everyone feels like being elitist. I started playing engineer when I was 23, I'm now 30. My fingers are way less comfortable playing the kit piano than they were. We need to acknowledge that core engineer is a mish mash of random ideas that don't fit a cohesive train of thought. Both elite specs have some cohesion to them, core engineer does not.

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@Peutrifectus.4830 said:I'm back to playing condi core in wvw dire/trailblazer p/p grenadeerEgun/Tkit/Gkit yea yeah

Screw the meta. I wanted to go back to having fun!

Sure.. it's all fun until you realize that you're actually doing net negative damage to a zerg or even small comped group in WvW as all your conditions get converted to boons every second... and you can't touch most classes with cleanse traits in small skirmishes or 1v1s because your main condi application is on medium-long cooldowns and their cleanse isn't.. and it takes way longer to kill your targets in PvP, giving them time to stall on the point for those critical ticks.. and you take more damage from retaliation than you deal from grenades.. and you can't spec Scrapper for sustain or utility any more

fun..

I guess it is rewarding when you finally kill someone. I mean, it should be. You have to outplay them often 5 times over before they actually go down compared to power holo.

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@"Vagrant.7206" said:Both elite specs have some cohesion to them, core engineer does not.

In some sense, given that Engineer is 'the jack of all trades', that statement could be seen as entirely the opposite. Both Scrapper and Holosmith are more condensed, but that comes (in my opinion) at a cost to the original idea of Engineer. The elite specs both are now tuned in some sense to be bruisers and front line melee fighters, this to me is ugly, not just for the overlap and loss of identity between the two specs themselves, but the departure itself from what made (for me) the profession interesting. Engi is often the adaptable guy, not locked into one play style, and the only thing that lets the elite specs do so as well, is the core stuff. If that play style comes at the cost of the value of each ability, or in some cases entire types cough turrets cough, maybe this is 'balanced'. The writing is on the wall, I just hope Anet learns the lessons and can make something both interesting and viable at the same time, not one or the other.

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You get it @Matoro.9708 , core engi does have a cohesion on its aesthetics, is just that the skills are so bad.
Like, for example grenades, why is there a trait that makes them travel faster? Do rangers need to aim their arrows? Do deadeyes need to calculate the wind resistance and ballistics of their proyectiles? No, of course not, it's a fantasy game, why not make grenades connect easily? Make traits something interesting, not about fixing the flaws of base design.
Of course, we could go on and on about different engi skills, we should, maybe, but that's it for now.

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@ellesee.8297 said:Ya'll kill me with all this praise for holosmith as good as nades been to you. Back when you was core engi where was holosmith? You don't abandon ya folks that's been down from day one. You got a little xpac now so you too good for shrapnel nades? You gotta drop at least 12 hip shots chaith style for holosmith, but nades used to be 1500 range AND you get carpel tunnel from kit swapping. A lot of ya'll forgot where you came from and it's sad... Not me though. Nade kit until the day I die.

How do you setup ?

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@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.


As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.

As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

Holo is not good with a condi setup .... it is better core engi condi than holo condi ihmo. For a condi setup with pistols you need firearms , so you have to take holo and firearms .... if you take also explosive you are of paper but nades without granedier are not viable ihmo .

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@PierPiero.9142 said:

@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.

As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

Holo is not good with a condi setup .... it is better core engi condi than holo condi ihmo. For a condi setup with pistols you need firearms , so you have to take holo and firearms .... if you take also explosive you are of paper but nades without granedier are not viable ihmo .

I disagree. Condi holo is superior, if only because it's way easier on the fingers for roughly equivalent DPS.

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.

As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

Holo is not good with a condi setup .... it is better core engi condi than holo condi ihmo. For a condi setup with pistols you need firearms , so you have to take holo and firearms .... if you take also explosive you are of paper but nades without granedier are not viable ihmo .

I disagree. Condi holo is superior, if only because it's way easier on the fingers for roughly equivalent DPS.

how do you build it ?

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@PierPiero.9142 said:

@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.

As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

Holo is not good with a condi setup .... it is better core engi condi than holo condi ihmo. For a condi setup with pistols you need firearms , so you have to take holo and firearms .... if you take also explosive you are of paper but nades without granedier are not viable ihmo .

I disagree. Condi holo is superior, if only because it's way easier on the fingers for roughly equivalent DPS.

how do you build it ?

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/engineer/holosmith/condition/

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.

As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

Holo is not good with a condi setup .... it is better core engi condi than holo condi ihmo. For a condi setup with pistols you need firearms , so you have to take holo and firearms .... if you take also explosive you are of paper but nades without granedier are not viable ihmo .

I disagree. Condi holo is superior, if only because it's way easier on the fingers for roughly equivalent DPS.

how do you build it ?

No stunbreak, no condi clean ....

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@PierPiero.9142 said:

@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Uhm... I play core with kits, I play scrapper with kits and I play holo with kits....Uhm... I play condi core, condi scrapper, power scrapper, power holo, celestial holoUhm... I play meele builds, ranged builds, offensive builds, defensive buildsAll of them have decent condi cleanse, are hard to be kited and provide high mobility, and all of them are hella fun to play...at least in WvW roaming.

Holosmith can be implemented in a range of builds, no need to stick to the boring meta builds.

This is very true but certain people are not willing to try to get creative with their builds thus they rather stick to the Meta over getting a it creative with what can be made.

Holosmith is fine for players who want a alternative to spamming Grenades in a Power build but it has potential in a condition build aswell to build Burn condition with Grenade conditions and pistol conditions.

The mind is the greatest weapon because it is where creativity to how can someone be killed is made.

As for the Elite Spec itself for me, well I am still waiting on something else a bit more creative with the Elite Spec that is not "spam kits' and Ignore Main Weapon.

a Elite Spec that is deisnged to sacrifice Kits to modify the Main Weapon is still a interesting one I hope they may one day add since as a Engineer, the character should have a Elite Spec that gives them the ability to focus on Main Weapon by Modifying it using the Kits to perform the type of role they want such as if Rifle gets modified with Grenade and Bomb kit, it would gain 5 new Rifle skills that focus on Power Explosive Damage but if you modify the Rifle with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower kit, the Rifle gets 5 New skills that focus on Condition Explosive Burn Damage. Along with if you Modify the Rile with ELite Mortor kit with Tool Kit, it gives the Rifle 5 new skills that makes it into a Power Damage Railgun.

Holo is not good with a condi setup .... it is better core engi condi than holo condi ihmo. For a condi setup with pistols you need firearms , so you have to take holo and firearms .... if you take also explosive you are of paper but nades without granedier are not viable ihmo .

I disagree. Condi holo is superior, if only because it's way easier on the fingers for roughly equivalent DPS.

how do you build it ?

No stunbreak, no condi clean ....

It's meant for PvE.

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I don't know about you guys, but I like to win.

I know people try to be elitist about engineer but engineer core is not good in any game mode.

Holosmith is simple yes, but the damage and results is there.

You can try to handicap your self to look pro or cool but I'll take holosmith and try to win.

I hate when people say engineer is a Jack of all trades.

Guardian is the real Jack of all trades. They provide stab, blocks, can do burning conditions, and can tank heal dps.

Engineer should move away from being a Jack of all trades. We need to be strong in spvp and meta in WvW pvp.

I love engineer and love the class but I want to see it succeed too. Other classes have gotten stronger over the years and engineer is still behind. They need to overhaul the class and give it nice power spikes.

Over the years, patch updates have baked so much power in all the professions except engineer.

Scrapper looks nice and holosmith is doing alright but classic core engineer is not updated with the power spikes of the other classes.

Engineer just needs more damage and healing as well as a battle combat theme.

Maybe make engineer effective in soloing or make him good at supporting 2 allies. Or maybe make him a glass cannon.

Engineer is the least popular class and it's also not very meta in much of the game.

Any ways that's my take on engineers.

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