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Prologue equals episode 1?


Arzurag.7506

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@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@derd.6413 said:episode 0.5 from what i've heard this prologue just contains some introductions and a small map to serve as a hub

Thats just pure player speculation.

From what we’ve seen though it seems pretty likely. Unless we get involved in Charr drama the story hasn’t really started with this episode. And there won’t be much to the map in terms of antagonists. I’m assuming it will be just that, a small festival map. I don’t even think there will be mobs to fight. Just activities.

Well instead of just grabbing things out of thin air, lets wait for the 17th ?

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Worst case scenario is that they introduce a tiny fraction of the map which is centered around the Charr and what looks like a celebration. The next episode would then expand the map into what we would usually see in a typical LS release.

And then, it´s still missing the expansion-like content that they said they want to add with the next ls.Maybe the charr know how to throw a party^^

They said the expansion level content would come with the sesason. They didn't say it would come in episode 1 of the Season. It's like mounts were delivered in episodes 4 and 6 of Season 4. We had no idea we were getting them before episode one started.

They also said "expansion level content" was comming with LS4.4 in the form of Sun's Refuge.The jury is still out on if that actually qualifies or not.

To me "expansion level content" is things like brand new assets, new systems and elite specs. A glider is expansion level content.Do you think s5 will give us something as game changing as the glider? Or do you think it more likely we get something like Oakheart Essences labelled as "Expansion Level content" when Mike Z does a hype piece for an MMO news site?

While I appreciate the passion behind your post, I think it's a good idea not to try and sell people on this vague language we are being given lately and approach the future of this game more pragmatically.If we don't... well Friday taught us what happens.

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In the end, episode numbers are relative. All that matters is the length, number of episodes relative to other living stories, and time span between episodes, especially if the episodes continue into either an expansion or another living story.

Prologue = episode 1 (it is shorter, not sure about map)episode 1 = episode 2episode 2 = episode 3etc.

For example, I would rather have 1 prologue followed by 1 episode, directly followed by an expansion each spaced 3 months apart then to have 50 episodes each spaced 5 months apart.

Names are almost meaningless. It is just a way to organize and group content.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:To me "expansion level content" is things like brand new assets, new systems and elite specs. A glider is expansion level content.Do you think s5 will give us something as game changing as the glider? Or do you think it more likely we get something like Oakheart Essences labelled as "Expansion Level content" when Mike Z does a hype piece for an MMO news site?

I really don't need new game mechanics added, I believe we already have enough of those. What was said during Friday's presentation is that old things that were underused in the past (like the travel mechanics you mentioned) will be put to more use in the future, which is great. I believe the focus in terms of game mechanics should be just that, putting those we already have to use, and also adding more technical updates to the game like QoL updates people have been asking for (build templates, UI customization, only to name two). Bombarding the game with new stuff on each story release that will never have use again afterwards (you gave a good example of that, too: Sun's Refuge) is just a waste of resources, and a waste of players' time. We need more sustainability and consistency in this game; trying to move in a thousand different directions at once never ends well, you end up losing track of things and get lost in the process.

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@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"derd.6413" said:episode 0.5 from what i've heard this prologue just contains some introductions and a small map to serve as a hub

Thats just pure player speculation.

From what we’ve seen though it seems pretty likely. Unless we get involved in Charr drama the story hasn’t really started with this episode. And there won’t be much to the map in terms of antagonists. I’m assuming it will be just that, a small festival map. I don’t even think there will be mobs to fight. Just activities.

Well instead of just grabbing things out of thin air, lets wait for the 17th ?

They could theoretically have the last part of this release be somekind of catalyst that involves some repeatable pve content, like a meta and actual mobs, but I'm pretty sure they stated the world bosses and possibly even strike missions won't start until Episode 1.

So without those, and the story being celebration-focused, and the teaser showing mini-games and activities, I find it hard to believe it will be anything other than a smaller map consisting of those what they've previewed. It's probably best to temper expectations and be pleasantly surprised. They haven't given us much to grasp at in general, but just going based off what they HAVE shown us, I would say that a hub-like festival area is far more likely.

I would also not be surprised if that was intentional, to have a Charr-focused festival that they can automate yearly moving forward. The more automated festival content the closer the game is to being self-sustaining, which seems to have taken a huge focus in the past couple of years. Sure, it looks like they're invigorating the game with festival content, but is it really because they're passionate about festivals or because it's just another way to have spaced out "content" while slimming down on some of the more packed releases?

But you're right, we'll see. I'm just going based off what they have shown us, which isn't much beyond Charr metal bands and activities. Which is cool, but will it be enough to sate people until the actual season starts. Sorry, saga. Not that anything ever really is in an mmo, but still.

It's also the word choice though, "Prologue." They're obviously not naming it a prologue to prevent story spoilers as they've already told us at least what the initial story is going to involve as well as the next two episode's maps and some world bosses, and not counting it as part of the season but a "prologue" to the season for what would normally be a full-sized episode seems rather strange. It feels implied that it's going to be a smaller addition and more akin to what we would have in a Festival of the Four Winds-type patch. It's also just enough to bridge the gap before Halloween, and then, either they add some other festival, MAYBE episode 1, or just drift until Wintersday and then release episode 1 the beginning of next year. It sounds like some of the upcoming episodes are still in a bit of a concept phase and they haven't really said much about the release cadence with whatever this new iteration of living story is, which means they probably don't have one or know, which is probably a good indication that the current 4-5 month release schedule is going to be the best we can hope for at least in the next year.

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@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"derd.6413" said:episode 0.5 from what i've heard this prologue just contains some introductions and a small map to serve as a hub

Thats just pure player speculation.

From what we’ve seen though it seems pretty likely. Unless we get involved in Charr drama the story hasn’t really started with this episode. And there won’t be much to the map in terms of antagonists. I’m assuming it will be just that, a small festival map. I don’t even think there will be mobs to fight. Just activities.

Well instead of just grabbing things out of thin air, lets wait for the 17th ?

They could theoretically have the last part of this release be somekind of catalyst that involves some repeatable pve content, like a meta and actual mobs, but I'm pretty sure they stated the world bosses and possibly even strike missions won't start until Episode 1.

So without those, and the story being celebration-focused, and the teaser showing mini-games and activities, I find it hard to believe it will be anything other than a smaller map consisting of those what they've previewed. It's probably best to temper expectations and be pleasantly surprised. They haven't given us much to grasp at in general, but just going based off what they HAVE shown us, I would say that a hub-like festival area is far more likely.

I would also not be surprised if that was intentional, to have a Charr-focused festival that they can automate yearly moving forward. The more automated festival content the closer the game is to being self-sustaining, which seems to have taken a huge focus in the past couple of years. Sure, it looks like they're invigorating the game with festival content, but is it really because they're passionate about festivals or because it's just another way to have spaced out "content" while slimming down on some of the more packed releases?

But you're right, we'll see. I'm just going based off what they have shown us, which isn't much beyond Charr metal bands and activities. Which is cool, but will it be enough to sate people until the actual season starts. Sorry, saga. Not that anything ever really is in an mmo, but still.

It's also the word choice though, "Prologue." They're obviously not naming it a prologue to prevent story spoilers as they've already told us at least what the initial story is going to involve as well as the next two episode's maps and some world bosses, and not counting it as part of the season but a "prologue" to the season for what would normally be a full-sized episode seems rather strange. It feels implied that it's going to be a smaller addition and more akin to what we would have in a Festival of the Four Winds-type patch. It's also just enough to bridge the gap before Halloween, and then, either they add some other festival, MAYBE episode 1, or just drift until Wintersday and then release episode 1 the beginning of next year. It sounds like some of the upcoming episodes are still in a bit of a concept phase and they haven't really said much about the release cadence with whatever this new iteration of living story is, which means they probably don't have one or know, which is probably a good indication that the current 4-5 month release schedule is going to be the best we can hope for at least in the next year.

So you totaly missed that its called https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bound_by_Blood ?

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Worst case scenario is that they introduce a tiny fraction of the map which is centered around the Charr and what looks like a celebration. The next episode would then expand the map into what we would usually see in a typical LS release.

And then, it´s still missing the expansion-like content that they said they want to add with the next ls.Maybe the charr know how to throw a party^^

They said the expansion level content would come with the sesason. They didn't say it would come in episode 1 of the Season. It's like mounts were delivered in episodes 4 and 6 of Season 4. We had no idea we were getting them before episode one started.

They also said "expansion level content" was comming with LS4.4 in the form of Sun's Refuge.The jury is still out on if that actually qualifies or not.

To me "expansion level content" is things like brand new assets, new systems and elite specs. A glider is expansion level content.Do you think s5 will give us something as game changing as the glider? Or do you think it more likely we get something like Oakheart Essences labelled as "Expansion Level content" when Mike Z does a hype piece for an MMO news site?

While I appreciate the passion behind your post, I think it's a good idea not to try and sell people on this vague language we are being given lately and approach the future of this game more pragmatically.If we don't... well Friday taught us what happens.

Well, we at least know there's a new type of ten man content, which I would consider expansion content. We almost never see anything like that introduced.

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during earlier living world seasons we had some stuff added to the game to set the stage. This can also be done by a prologue. It is a story telling mechanic used to set the stage (instead of just dropping Jormag on us). We did some bridging the stories (closing the Kralkatoriks saga with dragon bash v2 and the 4 winds festival) and it had some hints to what the future has in stor,e but it is small. They need to set the stage. This means nothing to the amount of content. So it remains to be seen how big it will be.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Worst case scenario is that they introduce a tiny fraction of the map which is centered around the Charr and what looks like a celebration. The next episode would then expand the map into what we would usually see in a typical LS release.

And then, it´s still missing the expansion-like content that they said they want to add with the next ls.Maybe the charr know how to throw a party^^

They said the expansion level content would come with the sesason. They didn't say it would come in episode 1 of the Season. It's like mounts were delivered in episodes 4 and 6 of Season 4. We had no idea we were getting them before episode one started.

They also said "expansion level content" was comming with LS4.4 in the form of Sun's Refuge.The jury is still out on if that actually qualifies or not.

To me "expansion level content" is things like brand new assets, new systems and elite specs. A glider is expansion level content.Do you think s5 will give us something as game changing as the glider? Or do you think it more likely we get something like Oakheart Essences labelled as "Expansion Level content" when Mike Z does a hype piece for an MMO news site?

While I appreciate the passion behind your post, I think it's a good idea not to try and sell people on this vague language we are being given lately and approach the future of this game more pragmatically.If we don't... well Friday taught us what happens.

Well, we at least know there's a new type of ten man content, which I would consider expansion content. We almost never see anything like that introduced.

Did you consider it "expansion level content" when it was first introduced last Wintersday as "Secret Lair of the Snowmen"?

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Worst case scenario is that they introduce a tiny fraction of the map which is centered around the Charr and what looks like a celebration. The next episode would then expand the map into what we would usually see in a typical LS release.

And then, it´s still missing the expansion-like content that they said they want to add with the next ls.Maybe the charr know how to throw a party^^

They said the expansion level content would come with the sesason. They didn't say it would come in episode 1 of the Season. It's like mounts were delivered in episodes 4 and 6 of Season 4. We had no idea we were getting them before episode one started.

They also said "expansion level content" was comming with LS4.4 in the form of Sun's Refuge.The jury is still out on if that actually qualifies or not.

To me "expansion level content" is things like brand new assets, new systems and elite specs. A glider is expansion level content.Do you think s5 will give us something as game changing as the glider? Or do you think it more likely we get something like Oakheart Essences labelled as "Expansion Level content" when Mike Z does a hype piece for an MMO news site?

While I appreciate the passion behind your post, I think it's a good idea not to try and sell people on this vague language we are being given lately and approach the future of this game more pragmatically.If we don't... well Friday taught us what happens.

Well, we at least know there's a new type of ten man content, which I would consider expansion content. We almost never see anything like that introduced.

Did you consider it "expansion level content" when it was first introduced last Wintersday as "Secret Lair of the Snowmen"?

Well, I don't know. It was like a mini raid. I suppose if that instance had been left in the game, it would be open to interpretation. Really the only thing I think of as expansion level content that doesn't come with the living world is elite specs. Everything else I don't. We get masteries with the living world. We've gotten some mounts now. We even got a downed skill would I wouldn't have thought was living world content.

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@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I consider Mounts 'expansion-level' content, and we got some of those in Living World Episodes.

I don't know, anything new could be in an expansion; we get new things, sometimes, in Living World Episodes.

Who gets to decide what is, or is not, 'expansion-level' content?

Yeah, PoF gave us new elite specs, new masteries, new mounts, maps, new story, new sets of armour and weapon skins, new adventures, races, new attribute combinations.Apart from elite specs LS4 gave us all of that too.

I think they have been giving us "expansion-level" content already just spread out over a season. Less than in the expansion perhaps but still "expansion-level" content.

The problem comes from the fact that "expansion-level" content isn't a well defined term. It's vague and therefore open to interpretation so "expansion-level" has kinda become synonymous with "more".

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Here's the thing. They aren't calling it a season so no numbered episodes. They have stated that they wanted to develop content where they don't have to release a new map every "episode" and that they can update current maps and still release Living World like content. So calling them episodes might not work for the episodic formula.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Worst case scenario is that they introduce a tiny fraction of the map which is centered around the Charr and what looks like a celebration. The next episode would then expand the map into what we would usually see in a typical LS release.

And then, it´s still missing the expansion-like content that they said they want to add with the next ls.Maybe the charr know how to throw a party^^

They said the expansion level content would come with the sesason. They didn't say it would come in episode 1 of the Season. It's like mounts were delivered in episodes 4 and 6 of Season 4. We had no idea we were getting them before episode one started.

SAGA... try to keep up Vayne!! :)

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I consider Mounts 'expansion-level' content, and we got some of those in Living World Episodes.

I don't know, anything new could be in an expansion; we get new things, sometimes, in Living World Episodes.

Who gets to decide what is, or is not, 'expansion-level' content?

At a stretch I am guessing the Strike Missions are what they think will pass for expac type content... trouble is there is so little to go on we simply have no idea., which is why I fear they might end up being nothing more than an instanced twist on World Bosses and Bounties.

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I consider Mounts 'expansion-level' content, and we got some of those in Living World Episodes.

I don't know, anything new could be in an expansion; we get new things, sometimes, in Living World Episodes.

Who gets to decide what is, or is not, 'expansion-level' content?

At a stretch I am guessing the Strike Missions are what they think will pass for expac type content... trouble is there is so little to go on we simply have no idea., which is why I fear they might end up being nothing more than an instanced twist on World Bosses and Bounties.

Judging by the new magazine, strike missions are basically just 10-person challenge modes for LS bosses?

Ex-pac content:

  1. New content types (adventures, bounties) - Strike missions would probably count?
  2. New systems (mastery system, guild halls, mounts) - Remains to be seen. There have been smaller scale additions, like Ascended cooking, legendary sigils, and the upcoming build templates. It remains to be seen if something as major as masteries or mounts could be added through LS. Maybe they can repurpose combos for something groundbreaking.
  3. New specs/skills - remains to be seen
  4. New maps - of course we always get this. Some people might feel that expacs have better quality, but I think LS4 was on a similar level as PoF, on average (though some maps were subpar). But there's no real reason that maps can't be expac quality.
  5. New story. Here, there is an unavoidable issue -- episodic content (LS) requires a certain type of story pacing. Expac can afford a more cinematic story progress and can afford to trade quantity for quality. Perhaps if LS introduced the necessary maps and systems, it would be possible to end the season with a final episode focused solely on story missions of that level of quality?
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@perilisk.1874 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I consider Mounts 'expansion-level' content, and we got some of those in Living World Episodes.

I don't know, anything new could be in an expansion; we get new things, sometimes, in Living World Episodes.

Who gets to decide what is, or is not, 'expansion-level' content?

At a stretch I am guessing the Strike Missions are what they think will pass for expac type content... trouble is there is so little to go on we simply have no idea., which is why I fear they might end up being nothing more than an instanced twist on World Bosses and Bounties.

Judging by the new magazine, strike missions are basically just 10-person challenge modes for LS bosses?

Ex-pac content:
  1. New content types (adventures, bounties) - Strike missions would probably count?
  2. New systems (mastery system, guild halls, mounts) - Remains to be seen. There have been smaller scale additions, like Ascended cooking, legendary sigils, and the upcoming build templates. It remains to be seen if something as major as masteries or mounts could be added through LS. Maybe they can repurpose combos for something groundbreaking.
  3. New specs/skills - remains to be seen
  4. New maps - of course we always get this. Some people might feel that expacs have better quality, but I think LS4 was on a similar level as PoF, on average (though some maps were subpar). But there's no real reason that maps can't be expac quality.
  5. New story. Here, there is an unavoidable issue -- episodic content (LS) requires a certain type of story pacing. Expac can afford a more cinematic story progress and can afford to trade quantity for quality. Perhaps if LS introduced the necessary maps and systems, it would be possible to end the season with a final episode focused solely on story missions of that level of quality?

Exactly.. anything is possible, some likely will materialise for sure.. but it's all just so vague, which makes even talking around the LS somewhat unremarkable currently.. other than -We have a new LS coming - great I actually enjoy LS, moreso when it is actually feels relevant.We got a LW rebranding (ok cool and..)We learned where we're going and Charr and Norn are going to be flavour of the week (tick.. already guessed a month ago by many of us),It will be exploring lore aspects of several races (ok that is fine and dandy, for a some maybe, but how long will that keep us all suitably engrossed?)New map.. or will it be maps or just a map broken up into parts as each piece of the Saga is relaeased… who knows for sure?Build Templates... still coming (we knew this already)Strike Missions - cool, what are they, what do they entail, how do they fit with the Saga, what kind of mechanics are they offering up … hmmm no detail to be able to judge them on yet, so soonWe get to fight another dragon (tick, had to be didn't it :))

Other news -WvW… talk about that some more in the coming months.. coughPvP.. ooh mini seasons in between seasons coming and a not so great looking armour (big reveal alert!)The merchandising opens... now go get them hoodies, fluufy toys and some errm sketchy looking legging and top.HoT is free to PoF owners and some vet freebies for those who already have HoT - ok, could help stimulate an uptick in new/returning players.. hopefullyANET will be 20yrs old next year - ok that is worthy news and commendable for sure, when it arrives.

So to round up, were getting some LS updates via the new SAGA commencing on 17th with a prologue that includes something or nothing, followed sometime after by some more LS which might include this and that, but we don't know what, how, when or .. well, anything much really.

It could and should all sound great, can all sound intriguing but it kinda all sounds a bit.. empty and soulless at the moment especially when we speak of expansion type content.. so the big reveal, the in ya face live event didn't really live up to the hype both parties helped to generate imo.

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