Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Are Raids Gone for Good? Will Strikes Replace Raids?


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Neo Mortem.3627 said:So... Are raids gone for good?

I sure hope so. There are game modes that have to go so that others can get more resources dedicated to them. They dumped Dungeons a long time ago (which was a shame at the time), now it's time to dump Fractals and Raids, IMO. Let those people work on PvE/story, WvW and QoL updates instead. That way we will get more frequent updates in those departments.

Also, let's be honest: some great story ideas used for raids could have been implemented elsewhere, because that game mode merely consists of challenging fights, story is wasted there. I would have loved to learn about Saul D'Alessio's fate in PvE story mode, or enter the realm of the djinn to explore and quest, etc.

If there is anything that gets all of the devs attention, it is living story. We don't need any more focus on that. Look how many open world PvE maps were released since PoF release. Look how many Raid and Fractal maps were created. Look how many PvP maps were created. Look how many WvW maps were created. Living story is leaving them in the dust. You add up all those maps together and they still won't equal the amount of living story maps released. Should they focus more on WvW? Yes. Story? Give me a break.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zacchary.6183 said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

If more people who were less toxic joined Raids, it wouldn't be as much looked down upon as a toxic community :3

p.s. originally I meant this as a joke. However, it's unfortunately partially true. I was once in a raid group that I wouldn't consider toxic. I think anyone can as long as you put in the work to find the people willing to do it that have the same mind set. No one is forcing you to play with person X.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tiviana.2650 said:

@Tiviana.2650 said:That is the worst idea i have ever seen on these forums.

You're welcome. ;)

Dump raids and fracs, what about the people that dont wvw should they dump that too for them?

There are enough of those already while a game mode like WvW hasn't had anything truly fresh brought to it in years (a mount doesn't make up for a lack of new, cycling maps or new directives or anything else that would breathe fresh air into that mode). And the main part of GW is and has always been story and exploration, which is why the more content in that department the better. So, while the game might lose a small part of its community that would walk away enraged, it would also satisfy others and even bring in some new people I am sure. There is an upside to everything.

THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT OF THIS GAME YOU START PICKING OFF GAME MODES.

There will be nothing left of this game if you stop neglecting game modes. There need to be priorities set. That's just my opinion, of course.

Im going to say also that, i dont know how people can play a game day in and day out that has such limited things to do.

Those game modes wouldn't go away, they would just not be updated anymore (or for a while). The other modes would profit from it for sure.

Good lord, you do realize you are going to lose a big part of the players doing this right? How can you be this naive , cherry picking game modes is the dumbest thing a game company can do. You will cut off your nose to spite your face and lose in the end.

More-so even picking the wrong game mode to focus on. No matter how much people don't want to believe it or accept it, end-game can't be focused around PvE. It wouldn't mean PvE would lost content, more-so PvE wouldn't be receiving as many updates as it is.

As an example here, there are what, about 18-19 LS maps that have been released? Then there is Desert Borderlands in WvW, which for the most part is not well received by the WvW community. Many players and entire servers avoid the map. In spite of this, it still sees more player action than all the LS maps even despite the WvW being considerably smaller than the PvE population.

This then begs the question "Where are all the PvE players going"? Well it seems to me that the majority of these players are either doing their dailies and logging off, or doing a meta-train and logging off. This isn't entirely sustainable as one can only stockpile gold and resources so much before growing bored with nothing to use them on.

Even raids aren't sustainable. They never should have existed in the first place, and they're the very reason the balance got thrown completely out of whack in the game. The raid community is extremely small, and once people learn the boss mechanics they can basically do the bosses in their sleep. The one thing Gw2 has a leg up on everyone else is their combat system, and it's basically frittered away when the focus on it goes into pre-determined PvE mechanic encounters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Anhellbro.7210 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group.

Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

@"Zacchary.6183" said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group.

Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

what is this training stuff though? why cant I just jump into a raid and follow, watch and learn as I go?

See I watched videos, made META builds and that but no one wants a first timer and the community says Ive got to "train" first like im an athlete going up against Usain Bolt or what ever.

raids in other games have a match maker so the community cant exclude players from content, why dont we have one yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

Toxicity isn't the core of the problem. It's the way Anet designs this game and refuses to give support to raids. There used to be numerous training raids, but now years later there's much fewer. Moreover tutorial in this game does nothing to teach players how to play the game. Breakbars don't even exist until mostly end game content. If the first boss you faced in tutorial had one it would be easier to adjust from pressing 1 to actually using the combat system. Also what's the incentive to teach players how to kill VG when there's only 6 blues for killing the boss again? People want to get their clears for the week and move on. Unlike dungeons there's no dungeon frequenter or any other way to add replayability. It's even worse for CM raids. Since once you complete a CM you can't do it again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MisterDapper.5984 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

Toxicity isn't the core of the problem. It's the way Anet designs this game and refuses to give support to raids. There used to be numerous training raids, but now years later there's much fewer. Moreover tutorial in this game does nothing to teach players how to play the game. Breakbars don't even exist until mostly end game content. If the first boss you faced in tutorial had one it would be easier to adjust from pressing 1 to actually using the combat system. Also what's the incentive to teach players how to kill VG when there's only 6 blues for killing the boss again? People want to get their clears for the week and move on. Unlike dungeons there's no dungeon frequenter or any other way to add replayability. It's even worse for CM raids. Since once you complete a CM you can't do it again.

Im not claiming they're toxic for it. I can understand the need to get it done as smoothly as possible. My guild was like this for early day CoF runs. 4 minutes a run for 2g per run using double port mesmers.

It would be nice if Anet added tools to make it easier to enjoy raids is all im saying really.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Zacchary.6183" said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group.

Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

what is this training stuff though? why cant I just jump into a raid and follow, watch and learn as I go?

See I watched videos, made META builds and that but no one wants a first timer and the community says Ive got to "train" first like im an athlete going up against Usain Bolt or what ever.

raids in other games have a match maker so the community cant exclude players from content, why dont we have one yet?

This is what I think

Because in raids in GW2 if you don't know what you are doing you will die and possibly wipe out the whole group and it can be very frustratingNot many if any 'pug' groups are willing to go through all the details and mechanics through the raid with you and teach you as there is quite a lot of different mechanics

Raids in other games ( I will use ffxiv for example as this is a game i play often) usually have a much more forgiving mechanic , easy to avoid wiping etcRaids in GW2 is almost like the hard mode in ffxiv , some boss mechanics will wipe your group if you have not done enough DPS in a certain amount of time etc so it requires players to act quicklyI also think that raids in GW2 was the answer from ANET for the elite players in GW2 that wanted very challenging PvE content

While I was frustrated that I could not just jump into the raids when ever I would like to , I can also understand that a group of 10 people would not like to spend their time being patient with someone new who will most likely drag the team down wiping/getting downed/death and in a situation where people cant come to res you and thus losing 1 dps which makes a huge difference and wiping out the whole group

If you want to get into raids I strongly suggest getting into these groups as training groups are usually very non-toxic and everyone there normally is there to learn like you and I

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

@"Zacchary.6183" said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group.

Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

what is this training stuff though? why cant I just jump into a raid and follow, watch and learn as I go?

See I watched videos, made META builds and that but no one wants a first timer and the community says Ive got to "train" first like im an athlete going up against Usain Bolt or what ever.

raids in other games have a match maker so the community cant exclude players from content, why dont we have one yet?

This is what I think

Because in raids in GW2 if you don't know what you are doing you will die and possibly wipe out the whole group and it can be very frustratingNot many if any 'pug' groups are willing to go through all the details and mechanics through the raid with you and teach you as there is quite a lot of different mechanics

Raids in other games ( I will use ffxiv for example as this is a game i play often) usually have a much more forgiving mechanic , easy to avoid wiping etcRaids in GW2 is almost like the hard mode in ffxiv , some boss mechanics will wipe your group if you have not done enough DPS in a certain amount of time etc so it requires players to act quicklyI also think that raids in GW2 was the answer from ANET for the elite players in GW2 that wanted very challenging PvE content

While I was frustrated that I cannot just jump into the raids when ever I would like to , I can also understand that a group of 10 people would not like to spend their time being patient with someone new who will most likely drag the team down wiping/getting downed/death and in a situation where people cant come to res you and thus losing 1 dps which makes a huge difference and wiping out the whole group

If you want to get into raids I strongly suggest getting into these groups as training groups are usually very non-toxic and everyone there normally is there to learn like you and I

Well that's fair enough, other raid games that Ive played have this issue too.you can get through an entire raid only to fail at the end because 1 person wasnt equipped well enough (me on my first time) but I learnt from it, adjusted my builds and tackled it a few more times before being able to solo it before too long.

if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

Toxicity isn't the core of the problem. It's the way Anet designs this game and refuses to give support to raids. There used to be numerous training raids, but now years later there's much fewer. Moreover tutorial in this game does nothing to teach players how to play the game. Breakbars don't even exist until mostly end game content. If the first boss you faced in tutorial had one it would be easier to adjust from pressing 1 to actually using the combat system. Also what's the incentive to teach players how to kill VG when there's only 6 blues for killing the boss again? People want to get their clears for the week and move on. Unlike dungeons there's no dungeon frequenter or any other way to add replayability. It's even worse for CM raids. Since once you complete a CM you can't do it again.

Im not claiming they're toxic for it. I can understand the need to get it done as smoothly as possible. My guild was like this for early day CoF runs. 4 minutes a run for 2g per run using double port mesmers.

It would be nice if Anet added tools to make it easier to enjoy raids is all im saying really

I should have responded to an earlier post. I meant to address the post as a whole. My bad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@sephiroth.4217 said:if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

You can still have that experience but you need to find 9 other firsttimers first. Mosr raid wings are years old and most people dont want to explain and wipe before every boss on a weekly basis. Thats why lfg groups want experienced people. The lfg in game is not a good way to start raiding. joining a guild / discord is way better for that.I really hope that the strikes have decent g/h ratio and are farmable so they are not dead on day one. Its still fun if its on at least freezies level but a cm with maybe 5player limit would be really nice aswell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Neo Mortem.3627 said:So... Are raids gone for good?

I sure hope so. There are game modes that have to go so that others can get more resources dedicated to them. They dumped Dungeons a long time ago (which was a shame at the time), now it's time to dump Fractals and Raids, IMO. Let those people work on PvE/story, WvW and QoL updates instead. That way we will get more frequent updates in those departments.

Also, let's be honest: some great story ideas used for raids could have been implemented elsewhere, because that game mode merely consists of challenging fights, story is wasted there. I would have loved to learn about Saul D'Alessio's fate in PvE story mode, or enter the realm of the djinn to explore and quest, etc.

To be fair they said that if raids didn't exist the story of Saul would not have been tackled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Neo Mortem.3627 said:So... Are raids gone for good?

I sure hope so. There are game modes that have to go so that others can get more resources dedicated to them. They dumped Dungeons a long time ago (which was a shame at the time), now it's time to dump Fractals and Raids, IMO. Let those people work on PvE/story, WvW and QoL updates instead. That way we will get more frequent updates in those departments.

Also, let's be honest: some great story ideas used for raids could have been implemented elsewhere, because that game mode merely consists of challenging fights, story is wasted there. I would have loved to learn about Saul D'Alessio's fate in PvE story mode, or enter the realm of the djinn to explore and quest, etc.

To be fair they said that if raids didn't exist the story of Saul would not have been tackled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Neo Mortem.3627 said:

@Rodrick.1942 said:You guys might think about a possibility : that they said w7 is their last wing IS TRUE and raid project is over(at least just move to maintain mode).

If they said that, where is it mentioned? I don't remember reading it, but if you could provide a link it would be extremely helpful

Yea I dont remember seeing that statement either so think @Rodrick.1942 is just trying to rile up the raid community

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

You can still have that experience but you need to find 9 other firsttimers first. Mosr raid wings are years old and most people dont want to explain and wipe before every boss on a weekly basis. Thats why lfg groups want experienced people. The lfg in game is not a good way to start raiding. joining a guild / discord is way better for that.I really hope that the strikes have decent g/h ratio and are farmable so they are not dead on day one. Its still fun if its on at least freezies level but a cm with maybe 5player limit would be really nice aswell.

yea Ive tried doing that but thats ok, plenty of other PvE games with easily accessible content for me to enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Neutra.6857 said:

@"Madja.1369" said:I hope so. Maybe strike missions will actually allow you to play your favoured class and specs instead of a small handful of actual viable ones.

Wouldn't be so sure.

Funny most of the raids I have been in (guild raids yes) have not had only few viable classes. The only necessity was to have sufficient dps if you are dps (no dooing less damage then the healer), sufficient heals, or a tank that knows what they are doing. I have worked with chrono tanks, druid tanks, guardian tanks, warrior tanks, etc. I have worked with ele healers, druid healers, guardian healers, necro "healers ." I have worked with just about every dps under the sun including having condi in non-condi fights. These where all able to finish a boss.

That's not the point since you can finish raid with just about anything yet people still feel excluded. Strikes will develop a meta that people will want to play with, just like fractals and raids, and people will ask for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Josiah.2967 said:With how badly balanced the classes are for raids currently, we are better off with an LFG easier alternative like they will be doing in the upcoming Saga.

Balance is better then ever. I guess you dont remember when there wasonly 1 dps option (tempest) because it was over 10k ahead in dps. Before pof there was only one coposition with all classes set.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I don't think raids are gone. I just think that they're adding something for people to practice more difficult mechanics they would otherwise see in the open world.

From another perspective, why would they add only entry level content to raids and then completely stop adding raids afterwards? Let's not go too far here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I do hope raids are done for good. I don't like raiding.

Reasonably, I hope they're on pause. ANet can put out strike missions and try various fight encounters to see what non-raiders do with them. Lessons learned can be implemented when raid teams pick back up later, and hopefully raids that appeal to a wider range of players will be the result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"sephiroth.4217" said:if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

That aspect of failure and learning as you go is what training raids essentially are though, just with a couple of players who know what they're doing to help people figure out mechanics. The term "training" is just what has fallen into common usage, for lack of a better term. Really what they are are just raid squads where the kill is not expected within a few pulls. An experienced group would expect to only take a few pulls max to get a kill, which means you don't get many chances to see different mechanics before the boss dies and the group moves on. Joining a group with 9 highly experienced players just means that you'll most likely get the kill lying on your back for most of the run, which is not what you say you're looking for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This holds true for all of wings 1-4. Naturally they will be the ones people complete more as well since it has legendary armor as a reward. A lot of the reason you don't see high participation for pof is there's simply no reason to run pof. Ring isn't nearly as good as an entire set of armor. So why bother with the harder wings?

Either way lets say you lose 10% of the playerbase. Is that acceptable for you when the playerbase is already at an all time low? If so, then no amount of discussion is going to change anyones mind as we are going to fundamentally disagree about what is healthy for the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...