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How do you all feel about Strike Missions?


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Since my "hardcore" days are over in MMOs, i like to play a more casual gaming style. i was quite happy to see the fractal changes after i came back in january this year. Through the changes i can just hop in for 1-2 fractals and leave. Raids look very interesting but i don't want to invest so much time into raiding. So i hope strike missions will be a good substitute on a less time consuming level.

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Nothing much to say about the content since its not out yet. But from what I heard, it will be a 10man content and easy to complete. Imo it might help raids access by building a 10man community in game (if players can gather 10man for S.M, nothing is stopping the group to go for raids). But if the content is "easy", there is the possibility it can be low manned(farming/efficiency purpose).

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I'm interested, but sceptical.I have a feeling they will either be way to easy or way to unrewarding, or both.But we will see.

That's for me personally. In terms of game health, I'm glad for any type of community building group content, as well as any content that challenges players at all in any capacity to make them grow as players, unlike open world or story. The game, as an MMO, really needs that, even if the content may not exactly be for me (Fractal CM's when?).

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@Asum.4960 said:I'm interested, but sceptical.I have a feeling they will either be way to easy or way to unrewarding, or both.But we will see.

That's for me personally. In terms of game health, I'm glad for any type of community building group content, as well as any content that challenges players at all in any capacity to make them grow as players, unlike open world or story. The game, as an MMO, really needs that, even if the content may not exactly be for me (Fractal CM's when?).

This.

Personally I think people are overexpecting again and to some extent overhyping this content, which is once again a recepie for disaster.

What I hope for:

  • the content to be fun
  • the content to be well made
  • for the content to bring people together to complete it

What I do not expect:

  • the content to magically solve player made problems like unwilligness to acquire game understanding, skill, knowledge
  • the content to make grouping easier by sheer force of, oh I don't know, magic
  • the content to change how rewards in this game work and the structure behind the reward system

Most of the 3 factors I doubt will happen are based on how the game is designed and how players interact with the game. If you are unwilling/unable to raid currently due to whatever reason (being unable to find a raid group/guild/people, due to time restraits, lack of skill or understanding, etc.) those factors will not change with new content.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:What I hope for:

  • the content to be fun
  • for the content to bring people together to complete it

If these Strike Missions really will be at the same difficulty as raids, I don't think those two points will come to be.Raid difficulty encounters WILL cause many group leaders to demand META builds. And the demand to use META will divide the player base, not bring it together. Additionally, META builds simply aren't fun for many players.

I hope they won't be as hard as raid though, so more builds can be viable.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:What I hope for:
  • the content to be fun
  • for the content to bring people together to complete it

If these Strike Missions really will be at the same difficulty as raids, I don't think those two points will come to be.

I doubt strikes will be as difficult as raids. My guess is, they might be similar to Dragonbash Arena, as was mentioned earlier (or in another thread). They might be focused on 1 or 2 specific mechanics which need to be done, unlike raids where multiple mechanics are required per encounter.

How well this will work out, no idea. Given the absolute abysmal average player skill level in this game, even this approach might be asking to much.

@Fueki.4753 said:Raid difficulty encounters WILL cause many group leaders to demand META builds. And the demand to use META will divide the player base, not bring it together. Additionally, META builds simply aren't fun for many players.

I hope they won't be as hard as raid though, so more builds can be viable.

Most raid leaders do not require META builds. They want a fraction of META build performance. Those two things are vastly different.

Unfortunately 90% of the player base have no idea how to create a proper build or play that build. Which leads many to copy META builds without understanding them or being able to play them and at the same time leads raid leaders to tell them to play META builds. If people were actually able to create specialized builds for certain content then most of the problems with META classes would not exist.

Here is my personal approach when I do trainings with new players:

  • I recommend easy classes so that people can focus on learning the boss mechanics first
  • I tell people what is required, what is desirable and what is ideal performance wise for encounters
  • I let people experiment

I have yet to see ANY new player come anywhere near a mediocre performance for their first few raids. Most decent new raiders might come close to around 40-50% of boss dps from experienced raiders (not even Snowcrow or Lucky Noob level but 80th-90th percentile performance) and that's the top performing ones.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:Most raid leaders do not require META builds. They want a fraction of META build performance. Those two things are vastly different.I can't remember having ever seen a lfg post looking for raid members that doesn't either require META builds or these Li Bi thingies, whatever that is.

Unfortunately 90% of the player base have no idea how to create a proper build or play that build.People usually create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with.They might not be effective as others, but calling these builds improper is not good.

Which leads many to copy META builds without understanding them or being able to play them and at the same time leads raid leaders to tell them to play META builds. If people were actually able to create specialized builds for certain content then most of the problems with META classes would not exist.This one is on Arenanet though. If balance opened more trait options to be viable for endgame content (for example Core Elementalist traitlines having synergy without playing weaver), people could create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with, WHILE being effective.

Here is my personal approach when I do trainings with new players:

  • I recommend easy classes so that people can focus on learning the boss mechanics first
  • I tell people what is required, what is desirable and what is ideal performance wise for encounters
  • I let people experimentThat's good, but far, FAR too rare from what I've seen.

But we will see if anything will change with the Strike Missions.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Most raid leaders do not require META builds. They want a fraction of META build performance. Those two things are vastly different.I can't remember having ever seen a lfg post looking for raid members that doesn't either require META builds or these Li Bi thingies, whatever that is.

The Li thingies don't require a metabuild though.

Unfortunately 90% of the player base have no idea how to create a proper build or play that build.People usually create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with.They might not be effective as others, but calling these builds improper is not good.

When i first got onto raiding and gearpings where still used somebody joined and pinged full ascended (because that is what matters right?) But almost every piece had different stats. You can't really call that a proper build. Or an elementalist who joined and took over agro from our mintrel chrono. These are not proper builds and experience has shown that most people aren't effective on builds they make themselves.

This is a consequence from gw2 being a rather difficult game to get started in.

Which leads many to copy META builds without understanding them or being able to play them and at the same time leads raid leaders to tell them to play META builds. If people were actually able to create specialized builds for certain content then most of the problems with META classes would not exist.This one is on Arenanet though. If balance opened more trait options to be viable for endgame content (for example Core Elementalist traitlines having synergy without playing weaver), people could create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with, WHILE being effective.

You can play core ele and be effective. Their was a time where the topspot on (i think Keep construct) was elementalist. This was a consequence of only 1 person pkaying that class their and really tryharding. But a lot of the core classes can work (not all i agree).

Here is my personal approach when I do trainings with new players:
  • I recommend easy classes so that people can focus on learning the boss mechanics first
  • I tell people what is required, what is desirable and what is ideal performance wise for encounters
  • I let people experimentThat's good, but far, FAR too rare from what I've seen.

But we will see if anything will change with the Strike Missions.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:And the demand to use META will divide the player base, not bring it together.

On the other hand, If it's doable by any build/composition then it won't bring players together either, it will be like the open world, playing with others around you, but not together with them. The other players can be ghosts, like the Halloween jumping puzzle and there would be zero difference. Requiring proper builds/compositions to play content is the only way to bring players together towards a common goal, that doesn't mean strict meta builds, but at least builds with some level of performance.

People usually create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with.

This is rarely the case, it's more about laziness to swap weapons, or the need to show off a legendary or other expensive skin recently acquired. Because how do they know how effective the build is compared to another one if they haven't tried both? And if they did they might've figured already why the meta build is meta."Look at my Twilight on mah Mesmer, meta is bad, I prefer GS because Twilight" disregard this if GS is meta for Mesmer, I'm not following the recent meta.

For some reason this community believes that "meta" is a one-build pony, very restrictive, while in reality meta builds have a good number of varieties to fulfill different needs.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Most raid leaders do not require META builds. They want a fraction of META build performance. Those two things are vastly different.I can't remember having ever seen a lfg post looking for raid members that doesn't either require META builds or these Li Bi thingies, whatever that is.

Unfortunately 90% of the player base have no idea how to create a proper build or play that build.People usually create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with.They might not be effective as others, but calling these builds improper is not good.

That's something one would say who does not understand how big the difference between optimized and unoptimized builds is. Now don;t misunderstand me, I'm not hating or blaming, I'm stating a fact. I can even prove this. Do the following:

  • take your current fun build to the damage golem in the Lions Arch
  • make sure to activate all appropriate boons and conditions as well as class benefits (warrior power/discipline banner, ranger spirits and spotter)
  • create a medium sized golem with at least 25 vulnerability (just activate all conditions on him)
  • do a small set of what ever rotation you feel like

My bet is: you will not break 10k dps, if at all.

The irony of this is, people who actually started to raid (or to some extent do challenge mode fractals) and who have had their knowledge of the game expand, know how to improve their performance. People who have only played throw together a random build on the otherhand are literally bringing a bicycle (fun build) to a Forumla 1 race (optimized damage or performance builds). That's how big the difference is between random builds and optimized builds.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Which leads many to copy META builds without understanding them or being able to play them and at the same time leads raid leaders to tell them to play META builds. If people were actually able to create specialized builds for certain content then most of the problems with META classes would not exist.This one is on Arenanet though. If balance opened more trait options to be viable for endgame content (for example Core Elementalist traitlines having synergy without playing weaver), people could create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with, WHILE being effective.

No they could not, unless the power creep was so beyond the content that it turned raids into open world content level of difficulty. This games damage forumlas and mechanics are very rewarding for maximum optimization. Throwing together random traits and skills will and should never be as successful as proper optimized builds (and never will be with the multiplicative mechanics in place atm).

Just to be clear, I'm saying this in trying to make people realize:

  • it's not their fault for not udnerstnading the games mechanics, players are never exposed to how this game works
  • the difference between knowing how the game works and not knowing is, and I've said this in the past, like playing two different games
  • raids require a tiny bit of optimization and build performance, which unfotunately is already miles above what most players are ever exposed to in open world
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@"maddoctor.2738" said:On the other hand, If it's doable by any build/composition then it won't bring players together either.I didn't mean ANY Build either, it just needs to be easier so more builds are viable.

Requiring proper builds/compositions to play content is the only way to bring players together towards a common goal, that doesn't mean strict meta builds, but at least builds with some level of performance.From my experience, content requiring group compositions (the very thing Arenanet wanted to avoid by kicking out the trinity) makes people default to the META.

For some reason this community believes that "meta" is a one-build pony, very restrictive, while in reality meta builds have a good number of varieties to fulfill different needs.At least when looking at the Elementalist section on Metabattle, It's either Weaver DPS, Fresh Air or Tempest support.And looking at the Warrior section there was ONE build (Banner slave) I might play.

To me, that's quite restrictive for at least these two classes.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:I didn't mean ANY Build either, it just needs to be easier so more builds are viable.

It will be don't worry. But builds are not any kind of issue with Raids

From my experience, content requiring group compositions (the very thing Arenanet wanted to avoid by kicking out the trinity) makes people default to the META.

Arenanet didn't want to avoid group compositions, they wanted to avoid the holy trinity, tank heal, dps. The game was always supposed to have roles, only "Softer" ones. Go to Uncategorized Fractal (T2+) and see the difference between having projectile hate and not having it (one of the earliest roles in the game), the other being might stacker and so on, things that existed since release.

At least when looking at the Elementalist section on Metabattle, It's either Weaver DPS, Fresh Air or Tempest support.

You mean you want to play a support Weaver? Weaver lacks any skills to heal/buff other people, making the spec rather useless as a support. Tempest will always outperform Weaver in the support role.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Most raid leaders do not require META builds. They want a fraction of META build performance. Those two things are vastly different.I can't remember having ever seen a lfg post looking for raid members that doesn't either require META builds or these Li Bi thingies, whatever that is.

Unfortunately 90% of the player base have no idea how to create a proper build or play that build.People usually create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with.They might not be effective as others, but calling these builds improper is not good.

Which leads many to copy META builds without understanding them or being able to play them and at the same time leads raid leaders to tell them to play META builds. If people were actually able to create specialized builds for certain content then most of the problems with META classes would not exist.This one is on Arenanet though. If balance opened more trait options to be viable for endgame content (for example Core Elementalist traitlines having synergy without playing weaver), people could create builds they (as individuals) can be effective with or just have fun playing with, WHILE being effective.

Here is my personal approach when I do trainings with new players:
  • I recommend easy classes so that people can focus on learning the boss mechanics first
  • I tell people what is required, what is desirable and what is ideal performance wise for encounters
  • I let people experimentThat's good, but far, FAR too rare from what I've seen.

But we will see if anything will change with the Strike Missions.

Feelings dont have a spot in math. Calculations make best builds. Those builds are meta. If you create your efective build then it is either close to the meta build or something where feelings were a factor so not the best build you coukd come up with

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@Cyninja.2954 said:What I do not expect:

  • the content to magically solve player made problems like unwilligness to acquire game understanding, skill, knowledge

Tbh. i dont think that most players are unwilling to understand the game.The game does a really poor job at explaing you literally anything about the combat system.Combo Fields? Some people might not even know that these exist. Breakbars? The skill tooltips dont even list the CC Value.I guess we have the dodge tutorial in the starting areas.It shouldnt be the players job to try and understand stuff the game should be explaining anyway.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:What I do not expect:
  • the content to magically solve player made problems like unwilligness to acquire game understanding, skill, knowledge

Tbh. i dont think that most players are unwilling to understand the game.The game does a really poor job at explaing you literally anything about the combat system.Combo Fields? Some people might not even know that these exist. Breakbars? The skill tooltips dont even list the CC Value.I guess we have the dodge tutorial in the starting areas.It shouldnt be the players job to try and understand stuff the game should be explaining anyway.

Oh I agree. Unfortunately every time the developers have tried to implement any type of content which challenges players, and thus encourages them to have to deal with their performance, game mechanics and understanding, the forums run red with tears and blood of complaints how hard the content is.

I've made the recommendation in the past to create a mini story around pact soldiers during which players are introduced to the games mechanics in core Tyria. Make it a mini Living World story season with some 1 time great accout reward (maybe some ascended armor piece or some armor skin set made for this). It would go a long way in getting people prepared for how this game works.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:You mean you want to play a support Weaver? Weaver lacks any skills to heal/buff other people, making the spec rather useless as a support. Tempest will always outperform Weaver in the support role.While that would be funny to see someone trying, I didn't mean it that way.But is is too much to ask for Fire/Air/Tempest to be viable as a high dps, low survival glass cannon?Or for Fire/Earth/non-weaver (I don't like Weaver) to be a viable conditioner?

@"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:It shouldnt be the players job to try and understand stuff the game should be explaining anyway.It worked with the Soulsborne series. And since seemingly every game developer wants to shove a piece of Soulsborne into their games, Anet "added" the explanation of specific mechanics.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:

It shouldnt be the players job to try and understand stuff the game should be explaining anyway.It worked with the Soulsborne series. And since seemingly every game developer wants to shove a piece of Soulsborne into their games, Anet "added" the explanation of specific mechanics.

I don't think I get the comparison. The Soulsborne series does explain the combat system to you. They explain that you can backstab certain enemies, they explain that you can parry certain enemies and they tell you which buttons to press to perform a certain action. What the Soulsborne series doesn't explain you well is the lore and the story.Oh and its probably not super clear where you have to go next. But combat wise everything should be fine.

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