All Vabbians are heterosexual now? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

All Vabbians are heterosexual now?

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  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Update: Another day, another 7 NPCs matched up and 1 more gay (or specifically lesbian) couple. So my total is now up to 21 couples and 3 homosexual. I'm still not sure of the exact probabilities, but it looks like heterosexual couples are more common, so it's not completely random, but homosexual relationships are definitely still in there.

    Hey, thanks for the update. :)

    (At this point I'm more surprised that everyone is always matched up with someone who is already interested in them

    But, isn't it like this in real life as well? (scratches head) ;)


    P.S. No one was asking for an "over-representation". Also, LGBTQ people don't exclusively hang out with other LGBTQs. Just thought I should put that out there to correct the misrepresentation posted earlier. Thank you for your time.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @kabourophobia.7354 said:

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    Re-opening this discussion, with 3 comments:

    1. This topic is about an in-game event, please stay on topic.
    2. We've removed a lot of posts, and issued warnings and bans whenever appropriate, but we've also left some comments that are a reflection about the difficulties of talking about issues of gender identity and sexual orientation. This content in Guild Wars 2 includes a variety of NPCs. We expect everyone on the forums to respect other players and that respect needs to be mutual, but please do not use this thread to talk about the topics of gender identity and sexual orientation in the most general sense.
    3. From now on, any off-topic will be deleted and bans issued if there's a sign of disrespect to others.

    What is the topic?

    The topic is originally concerns about a part of a meetic style heart having been changed. It's been proven afterwards that it hasn't been, so technically, the thread is solved.

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • i believe that the topic is... whether or not a Vabbian heart quest has changed the percentages of matching same sex couples together. you can find the heart in the western portion of the Garden of Seborhin

    "Bacon Defeciency DIsorder Sux"
    ~ The Baconnaire

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delta Dawn.4970 said:
    I know this is a minor detail, but recently I've been on a map completion spree and have been doing the Vabbi hearts on a bunch of characters. I remember that in the past, using the affinity analyzer at the "Be the life of the party" heart in Seborhin had an equal chance of prompting npcs to state they were looking for a same- or different-gender partner, but the last three times I've done it this month I noticed that none of the npcs asked for same-gender partners. I know it's just a silly detail in a random heart, but I was wondering what the reason for this change was - as a Gay(tm) myself it was just kinda nice to have those interactions not be heteronormative, and I'm sad to see it changed for seemingly no reason.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Be_the_life_of_the_party

    “Palawa Joko's Amusement Authority demands that our citizens possibly find love and definitely procreate. Your efforts in entertaining have resulted in an uptick in potential population, helping supply rise to meet demand. Well done, and praise Joko!”

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @RoseofGilead.8907 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @RoseofGilead.8907 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    She is old enough to play but not old enough to understand what sex is yet let alone sexuality choices and lifestyles.

    Some things in life like this, she doesnt need to know until shes ready or at the right age.

    if you show a 6 year old that they can kiss and suck willies, guess what they go and try with another 6 year old? not saying mine is 6 either but thats the repercussion of exposing this content to children. it's an adults topic or a topic for mature ages.

    This also means the games classification is wrong in my country and needs to be updated.

    Guild Wars 2 - M
    Fantasy violence, gambling and alcohol themes, online interactivity

    absolutely nothing there about sexual content which would up the games classification rating to MA and may need to be reported actually.

    Displays of one's chosen sexuality (ie. a woman and man holding hands or a man and man holding hands) is not the same thing as sexual content. There is pretty much zero sexual content in GW2, outside of a couple of bawdy jokes. The existence of homosexual relationships or heterosexual relationships in the game is not sexual content. And when I said your child has been exposed to sexuality choices, I simply mean that she has already been around people in heterosexual relationships (and probably people in homosexual relationships, as well).

    We don't make out or have sex in front of our child and my friend and his boyfriend have the same respect.

    it is sexual content, doesn't have to be a porno to have sexual content.

    And there isn't a single instance of making out, sex, fondling, or anything like that in the entire game. I'm pretty sure the closest thing to sexual content I've ever seen in GW2 is Marjory and Kasmeer having one quick kiss, and then a White Mantle mesmer creating an illusion of a half-naked Lord Faren. Neither of those things would count as sexual content with any rating board.

    a game was banned in my country because a car shook while 2 people were in it... They could have been dancing to the music.

    Another game was banned because you took "drugs" to refill your health.

    another was banned because of not displaying the correct classification.

    mortal kombat was too violent and got banned too.

    The list goes on, my country has a loooong history of this.

    Now I dont want to get into an arguement about it because there's nothing to argue really, the classification might need updating (ill leave it to them after I send it off later tonight) and I personally dont like singling out single communities in real life in an attempt to make them feel welcomed elsewhere or accepted. Thats just me and why I don't personally like this political stuff in fantasy video games.

    this is in regards to classification.
    https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/m/k/2018/10/2018-10-08_121727.jpg

    it explains that even innuendo, anything implied and even clothing would fall under sexual content.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MrForz.1953 said:

    @kabourophobia.7354 said:

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    Re-opening this discussion, with 3 comments:

    1. This topic is about an in-game event, please stay on topic.
    2. We've removed a lot of posts, and issued warnings and bans whenever appropriate, but we've also left some comments that are a reflection about the difficulties of talking about issues of gender identity and sexual orientation. This content in Guild Wars 2 includes a variety of NPCs. We expect everyone on the forums to respect other players and that respect needs to be mutual, but please do not use this thread to talk about the topics of gender identity and sexual orientation in the most general sense.
    3. From now on, any off-topic will be deleted and bans issued if there's a sign of disrespect to others.

    What is the topic?

    The topic is originally concerns about a part of a meetic style heart having been changed. It's been proven afterwards that it hasn't been, so technically, the thread is solved.

    Unless we get an answer what the original percentage was...if there was one to begin with or the script was just completely random...then it's not really solved. The simple solution would be for someone from ArenaNet to either confirm the parameters where changed or confirm that no code has been changed and the OP is just on an unlucky streak.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Update: Another day, another 7 NPCs matched up and 1 more gay (or specifically lesbian) couple. So my total is now up to 21 couples and 3 homosexual. I'm still not sure of the exact probabilities, but it looks like heterosexual couples are more common, so it's not completely random, but homosexual relationships are definitely still in there.

    Actually things have been roughly like that for me since the early days of PoF. I remember noticing one or two same-sex couples even in my first play-throughs of the heart way back when, but never more in the course of one character/heart. I still suspect that it's just random, with the off chance that a fix someplace else might have influenced the random number generation in unexpected ways.

    I also see no reason for anyone at ANet to go through their source control logs to figure out if any of the basic code involved in the heart (most likely some system-wide library rather than the specific heart itself) has been changed to influence this. Depending how their source library is built (and I suspect it's fairly expansive at this time in the game's life) that could be considerable time investment for no benefit at all. We know matches of all sexual orientations still happen, that should be all the answer we need.

  • Rukario.1695Rukario.1695 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm personally gay, it's whatever. But I really don't feel the need for any special representation in a game I've been a player of for essentially 10 years now...

    My point was is that this type of topic usually just causes some civil unrest and it isn't really worth the negative exposure it causes, much like the guy talking about banning his daughter from playing it and oddly enough, reporting it to his community board to be reviewed? (Honestly this sounds like a personal problem of his and a threat to dissuade Anet from anything in the future, and ideally I feel those comments should be removed.)

    More violence, less violets I say. I'm rich you know, because I watch the ledges.

  • @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I would like to see a heterosexual relationship in the gw2 story. All of the prominent ones are lesbian.

    Can you give some examples? Because the only prominent one i can think of is that of Majory and Cass. All the other major ones i can think of are logan and the queen (i would consider them in some sort of romantic relationsship although not an healty one) and i can't think of any other major romantic relationship in the game.

    The ones that I can think of right now are mostly off screen so to speak. The most prominent is probably the former relationship of Caithe and Faolin (same sex, but already history at the time the game starts), but there's also Braham and Ottilia, Zojja and Snaff (possibly very one-sided, although the novel isn't exactly clear there), Taimi and Blish. Then you have Ellen Kiel flirting with Zalambur in the PoF epilogue as well as some human married couples (Minister Caudecus, Minister Wi).

    Come to think of it, relationships don't seem to be much in focus at all where the non-human races are concerned, but I suspect even the ones that are there mostly go un-remembered since the non-human members of DE and DW don't have any ongoing romances, and the others are mostly just "normal background noise".

    There's also Ceera and Tonn if you pick the appropriate personal story path, but I guess you'd count that as "off screen" since you never see them together. Also, Erran and Emara in the Deadhouse event, and Ralena and Vassar in Ascalonian Catacombs. And if you count GW1, there was Mhenlo and Cynn (to my mind, a much more prominent relationship than that of Marjory and Kasmeer), and Gwen and Keiran.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I would like to see a heterosexual relationship in the gw2 story. All of the prominent ones are lesbian.

    Can you give some examples? Because the only prominent one i can think of is that of Majory and Cass. All the other major ones i can think of are logan and the queen (i would consider them in some sort of romantic relationsship although not an healty one) and i can't think of any other major romantic relationship in the game.

    The ones that I can think of right now are mostly off screen so to speak. The most prominent is probably the former relationship of Caithe and Faolin (same sex, but already history at the time the game starts), but there's also Braham and Ottilia, Zojja and Snaff (possibly very one-sided, although the novel isn't exactly clear there), Taimi and Blish. Then you have Ellen Kiel flirting with Zalambur in the PoF epilogue as well as some human married couples (Minister Caudecus, Minister Wi).

    Come to think of it, relationships don't seem to be much in focus at all where the non-human races are concerned, but I suspect even the ones that are there mostly go un-remembered since the non-human members of DE and DW don't have any ongoing romances, and the others are mostly just "normal background noise".

    There's also Ceera and Tonn if you pick the appropriate personal story path, but I guess you'd count that as "off screen" since you never see them together. Also, Erran and Emara in the Deadhouse event, and Ralena and Vassar in Ascalonian Catacombs. And if you count GW1, there was Mhenlo and Cynn (to my mind, a much more prominent relationship than that of Marjory and Kasmeer), and Gwen and Keiran.

    So in conclussion their are way more straight couple then gay ones?
    As i see it it seems we get a fair representation. ( But i don't really know what the real life statistics so i'm not 100 percent sure)

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    My wild guess would be that the same sex conversation options were only a bug since I didn't notice anything similar in the game or PoF somewhere else - other than Kasmeer and Marjory of course - (although I have to admit I couldn't care less about story and NPC interactions and stuff so I'd have missed it with like 100% certainty) and some random fix to something else fixed an "issue" with spawning the correct model. Like it now spawns the originally intended male model if the NPC is looking for a woman or the other way around.

    Honestly.. You can never be sure about something not being bugged. Just remember the change to thief's heartseeker where the leap range got decreased when you angled the camera down. This has been a known and widely used mechanism when playing d/p thief (it was actually thought of as being an actual feature) yet Anet figured that they had to fix this bug after like.. 7 years of persisting.

    Or maybe even since you said "but the last three times I've done it this month I noticed that none of the npcs asked for same-gender partners", maybe there aren't ALWAYS same gender options (why would they all be gay, it's at least as unlikely as nobody being gay) and it just happened that you simply got 3 hetero only options in a row. Unless Anet specifically gives a statement about the intended behaviour or changes to the implementation, or we have A LOT more data points we shouldn't just assume Anet had put in work to remove same-sex interactions.
    Like I said, it could also be just a random change to something unrelated which caused the previously intended behaviour to bug out, or it was previously bugged and now an unrelated fix also fixed this issue. Really creepy side effects can occur in software. We simply don't know.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sevenDEADLY.5281 said:
    Looking at actual statistics and not personal groups or beliefs, upwards of 11% of people are homosexual, and this is on the high end most percentages are actually lower. So why exactly should it be 50/50 split? That's over representation of an actual social group not true representation at all. If you are a member of any group, and you surround yourself with people of the same group, you will always overestimate group size because you're surrounded by it all the time. The reality is that no way near 50% of people are homosexual compared to heterosexual. So 50/50 representation is actually against true representation entirely.

    I don't know about anyone else but I assumed it would be 50/50 just because that would be easier to program. There seem to be roughly equal numbers of men and women present, and I think it would be easier to set up the dialogue as a 'fill in the blank' format "I'm looking for a ___ who ___" with 'man' and 'woman' as the options for the first blank and all the variations like "makes me laugh" or "challenges me intellectually" for the second one and then the computer would drop build a response from the options.

    Setting it up to actually have an accurate percentage of gay couples would involve a lot more programming and more steps for the computer to go through, which for heart quest flavour text which (as this topic shows) many people don't read at all seems a lot of unnecessary effort. I'm happy to see Anet will go for that level of detail, I just didn't expect it.

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    It would be nice if the classification on this game was updated in my country to contain sexual content because I wasn't aware of this until now.

    That's not actually something Anet has any control over, it's down to the ratings board. If you think the game has been mis-classifed you can contact them and ask that they review it in light of the additional information. Maybe link to the Wiki as a quick reference for the content you're concerned about?

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "In this town, we call home, everyone hail to the pumpkin song! In this town, don't we love it now? Everyone's waiting for the next surprise!"

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't know about anyone else but I assumed it would be 50/50 just because that would be easier to program. There seem to be roughly equal numbers of men and women present, and ...

    I come to this below, but first:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    ...I think it would be easier to set up the dialogue as a 'fill in the blank' format "I'm looking for a ___ who ___" with 'man' and 'woman' as the options for the first blank and all the variations like "makes me laugh" or "challenges me intellectually" for the second one and then the computer would drop build a response from the options.

    This is most probably how it is done. But before the text is displayed, the pair is chosen, and that is probably what you meant.

    What you most probably meant is that when implementing this heart it would have been simpliest to put all NPCs to the same list, and then pick the match randomly. Assuming equal number of males and females, that would lead to 50/50 ratio between same and opposite sex matches. But without doing anything else, that would also mean that sometimes the love interest is the NPC her/himself, and even that it would be hilarious (the lonely NPC realizes that the best match is her/himself), I am pretty sure that this case is prevented to happen, and thus you can't go that simple.

    Quickly thinking the easiest solution would have two lists, one for males and one for females, and for each NPC you pick the match from the opposite sex list. This would automatically prevent that the match is the NPC itself, but it would lead to 100% hetero matches, which would be bit boring. Because of that, would it be me making this heart, I would definitely go for bit more interesting couplings by creating temporary lists where the match is picked up. I wouldn't be surprised if there is NPC-specific differences in the ratios, that is, some NPCs have higher tendency to opposite sex matches than others. I am pretty sure I would not make any NPC having 100% chances for same or opposite sex matches, because it would be bit boring.

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Setting it up to actually have an accurate percentage of gay couples would involve a lot more programming and more steps for the computer to go through, which for heart quest flavour text which (as this topic shows) many people don't read at all seems a lot of unnecessary effort. I'm happy to see Anet will go for that level of detail, I just didn't expect it.

    Like said, I am pretty sure that because of things I explained, implementing different ratios for same and opposite sex couplings(*) has not required any big efforts, because most probably you couldn't use the simplest possible approach, and because anyways in the game you can put some effort to the quests players are taking. It would not make much sense to me to try to go "cheaply" with content, especially when it would not require much.

    EDIT: (*) Or between any two NPCs. It would be interesting to study, if there are two NPCs that have unlikely high chance to be matched, and if this is symmetric or not, that is, for NPC A you get higher chances to match it to NPC B, but in the opposite case it is rare :)

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delta Dawn.4970 said:
    I know this is a minor detail, but recently I've been on a map completion spree and have been doing the Vabbi hearts on a bunch of characters. I remember that in the past, using the affinity analyzer at the "Be the life of the party" heart in Seborhin had an equal chance of prompting npcs to state they were looking for a same- or different-gender partner, but the last three times I've done it this month I noticed that none of the npcs asked for same-gender partners. I know it's just a silly detail in a random heart, but I was wondering what the reason for this change was - as a Gay(tm) myself it was just kinda nice to have those interactions not be heteronormative, and I'm sad to see it changed for seemingly no reason.

    Sounds like a gamble, if you ask me.
    Someone else might've wondered why everyone is gay over there.

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