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Raids Are Too Difficult, Create Easy Modes


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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I enjoyed the wintersday raid and never could get into the normal raids due to the elitism and strict requirements a lot of raiders put on everyone.

These Strike missions sound far more like my kind of thing, i'm looking forward to testing them out ^^

What is stoping you from opening up your own squad, open for everyone ofcourse and start doing raids?

Experience.

Most experienced raiders are either not going to join the group because of the noobs or they'll take over the group entirely and demand people kick out those who they deem a burden.

First mistake, you are not experienced raiders so why are you expecting experienced raiders to join your PUG group?

Two main reasons.
  1. Because a large number of the playerbase is typically friendly, helpful and willing to team up with inexperienced players and help them.

Which experienced raiders do when they lead training runs or specific runs for introducing new players to this content. While doing their own clears, they just want success.

I don't blame them for that, however it does contribute to the problem of a lot of people being excluded and unable to find a group.It wasn't as bad but I do remember back in the early days of the game, dungeons and later on fractals also had this same problem on a smaller scale.It personally put me off dungeons for a long time because I couldn't stand seeing people join my groups and demand we kick out the non 80's or the wrong classes etcHell it still happens, just on very rare occasions thankfully.It's actually funny when it happens now though, dungeons are not even considered slightly difficult content these days so complaining about someone not being max level in them is just ridiculous lol
  1. Because experienced raiders make up almost 100% of the raiding community.

Unfortunately though the raid community is a lot more restrictive than the rest of the PvE game and that's made it very difficult for a lot of people to get into, hence it's small population problem.

True, the rest of the game requires a lot less organization and provides near no challenge. The issue with rewards for challenging content, it breeds exclusion because failure means no reward.

It can but you typically have to make your own challenge, that often comes down to soloing stuff that's designed for groups though or giving yourself crippling handicaps.It's quite fun but unrewarding in terms of loot, but that's not why I personally do it, I do it just to prove to myself I can.

@Teratus.2859 said:I've attempted my own squads on several occasions and more often than not it's half an hour standing around waiting and not enough people joining.The only time i've successfually managed to get a raid group is by organizing with a group of friends which took a significant amount of time and effort due to timezones and real life obligations.

and yet there is constantly people who have posted how they have successfully started raiding. Most of them used guilds or training discords to learn the fights. I guess this comes down to: some people are able, and some are not.

More some people are lucky and some are not.As I said I did get a group together once and we beat our first raid easily enough despite no experience with the boss or it's mechanics.With the 10 man limit on Raid squads there is only a limited amount of space available for the noobs, even in raid guilds there will always be those that just can't get in.My main guild has 6 different raid squads and it's very difficult trying to get in them even for training runs.

That's unfortunate. I guess this is guild unique. We have regular training runs, but often lack players who are willing to commit or even try raids.

It appears to be one or the other, that problem exists in another guild i'm in as well.Either can't get in because too many regular raiders or not enough people ever join lol

Without a decent amount of raiding experience it's nearly impossible to find a pug group, let alone one that knows what it's doing as stands a chance.

PUG groups are not for inexperienced raiders. Never have been. This has been explained often by now.

This is the very same need experience for a job but need a job to get the experience paradox lol.

No it's not. PUG raids are job postings for people with experience in the job. Training runs (from guilds, dircord or LFG) are for inexperienced players. People keep confusing this because they assume that the ease of joining raids is synonymous with ease of content completion. It is in fact the opposite: ease of group creation means more demand on individual skill since this content is made for organized groups.

That's what I mean, you can't just advertise a all welcome group for raids like you can in fractals and dungeons and find enough people.Experienced raiders aint going to join it for reasons you said above and there are so few other people even trying to get into raids that you'll be lucky to even get half a squad going.This is what I am hoping the strike missions will help remedy.People are going to be far more likely to keep trying if they at least have a half decent chance of getting into a group.. even a bad one that fails.

As it is now you can advertise a anyone welcome group and spend over an hour waiting around for people to join only to give up because nobody does.This is a old trope in the MMO genre that Gw2 was specifically designed not to have in it's group content so it's completely understandable that because it exists exclusively in the raid content that it's so effective in turning people away from it.

@Teratus.2859 said:The Wintersday raid was far friendlier to the wider Gw2 playerbase and a very good introduction to raid like content.The Raid group I managed to get together only did so because of that Wintersday Raid, so these Strike missions seem like a great stepping stone to getting more people interested in raids, and if not then i'll be content with more strike missions lol

Unless the strike missions are to difficult for you I assume. We don't have any referance of how difficult the strike missions will actually be.

Anyway, this has been discussed so often, it seems there is a very resilient part of the player base which neither wants or is capable of joining guilds or raid trainings but at the same time expects raids to be accessible to them at absolute lack of experience.

Strikes will not make existing raids magically easier. The requirements in experience for success will not drop. The only thing which might happen is that more inexperienced players are temporarily interested in raid content (remains to be seen) which would ease the creation of practice groups via the LFG. Practice groups are not easy and even harder when comprised completely of inexperienced players. The net result to get into actual raids will remain the same: use the proper approach (mostly outside of PUG anf LFG groups), practice, practice, practice.

Unlikely, Raids are not that all that difficult once you know what to do and what you need to avoid.A fair number of raid bosses rely on moderatly easy to avoid insta kill mechanics and a combination of time limits and super spongy Hp bars, once you're familiar with avoiding those insta kills that challenge diminishes rapidly and I've heard that claim from many raiders over the years.

I'm not a Gw2 noob, i've played for years, solo'd a fair amount of the games more difficult PvE group content.Im a competent player so the "difficult" aspect of raiding is not the problem, it's finding a group that's the hardest part.

You won't believe how often I have heard this line. No offence, but I have yet to see ANY player who is good at this game when they transition to raids, and I have seen many new players start raiding. The best one can hope for is players who are experienced in challenge mode fractals, but even they will underperform initially.

Friendly advice: assume you are bad at the game and need to improve because in reality, thre is a very high probability that you are, just like every other new raider before you. We all started as useless plebs because there is absolutely no content in this game which prepares one for raids. Very easy to check btw: go and do some golem training and see if you are hitting 90% snowcrows benchmark. If you do, then you are at least semi prepared and only lack boss mechanics. If you don't, well then you know where you stand as far as experience goes.

None taken.There's always a learning curve sure, knowing mechanics and tells and actually having experience with them is a whole different thing.Problem is a lot of people don't get to have that experience because of how restrictive raids became.Nothing kills peoples interest quicker than feeling excluded or that they don't stand a chance so why bother trying.

When the content first came out it was really easy to find a pug group and jump in, it was a lot of fun too and nobody I ran with was salty about failing even when we almost beat the Vale Guard.If it were still that easy to find a group of randoms I think a lot more people would keep trying to get into raids.I do beleive there are a lot of players in the game that do want to play and enjoy the raids, but they feel they're unwelcome there so they just don't even try anymore.I had that a long time ago with dungeons as I said above and I've felt that way about raids as well for a long time.I can pug any dungeon or fractal these days and carry a whole party through it if need be, the only thing that really changed was that the elitism went away and more people got into the content and gained the experience they needed to beat it.Now anyone can run with anyone in them with very high success rate and the content is largely considered unchallenging or too easy, hence the whole reason raids was ever a demand in the first place.If more people had access to raids through the LFG I expect it would be a lot easier for anyone to be able to find a pug group and beat at least some of the content.But everytime they try they see that "exp only" comment and are reminded that they are just unwelcome there.. exactly like it used to be with dungeons and fractals.

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@Teratus.2859 said:I do beleive there are a lot of players in the game that do want to play and enjoy the raids, but they feel they're unwelcome there so they just don't even try anymore.Are these players unaware of their numbers? It sounds as if there is a large pool of players who could group up with each other to do what all of them want to do.

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I have not seen the stream, but I assure you that raids are not difficult with a few exceptions. You can basically do all current boss encounters within a single day, even within a few hours. The guilds in the stream probably were doing advanced strats and also challenge motes which of course have an increased chance of failure. If you do normal modes and play standard PUG strats the raids are actually ridiculously easy.

If there is something hard about raids then it is to memorize your DPS rotation and reading up the mechanics for each boss. MOST people could do raids in GW2 if only they were serious enough about it.

For example yesterday I was raiding from 9 to 12 PM, gaining 14 LI = 14 bosses. With a bit of luck in getting a good squad you can be even faster.

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We are nearing the end of 2019. We still talk about raids being hard, after all the powercreep?And before you all start, no, I dont raid. I did 6 raids with a training group, found out myself that theyre rather easily doable even if youre half good, but real life issues prevent me from doing more (which i would do, trust me). Join a training guild, watch some vids on the class you wanna play, learn an easy rotation to get a half decent dps, and youre good to go. I learnt how to play harrier druid from a YouTube video, when it was meta. Ele as well. Dh too, berserker, you name it. It is easier than it seems.

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Hex.8714 said:i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

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@Katary.7096 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I do beleive there are a lot of players in the game that do want to play and enjoy the raids, but they feel they're unwelcome there so they just don't even try anymore.Are these players unaware of their numbers? It sounds as if there is a large pool of players who could group up with each other to do what all of them want to do.

There are people on these forums who show concern about raids and the supposed toxicity there without ever having touched raids themselves. With many opinions being entirely based on one sided stories they heard second-hand, stories which aren't even about GW2 half of the time. The recent wave of complaints about the difficulty as an answer to the raid tournament and the supposed fact that not even top guilds are able to easily beat the common bosses nowadays show one thing well enough: These kind of worried opinions need to be taken with a grain of salt as some of these voices do not even know enough about raids to notice the difference between a hardcore tournament with it's harsh rules and common pug runs.Feeling unwelcome should be considered an issue but an issue that needs to be examined more thoroughly. Again, with a grain of salt. You will most obviously not be met with open arms if you refuse to acknowledge the wishes and needs of a group you intend to join. People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

Trying to force your way through a brick wall when there is an easily accessible door nearby is your own issue entirely. That door might be a few steps further down the hall and thus require you to put in a little bit of an effort there but I certainly wouldn't blame the wall as it would break apart and even cause the entire house to collapse if it were to let you through.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Hex.8714 said:i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

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@Dante.1508 said:

@"Hex.8714" said:i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

Right, sure, I can fully understand that. However players in your position have plenty of content that fulfills that criteria, even Raids fall into that category. Any of the hardcore raiders in this game can tell you that Raids are silly and pathetically easy, the only challenge seen out of them has been MightyTeapot's Raid event that he held. Players like that however, the hardcore ones, are seemingly ignored in their desire to access harder difficulty Raid or otherwise PvE content.

What they have now does not fulfill them and they have expressed as much, yet many try to nail them with this "elitist" and "toxic" distinction because other casual players, like yourself, are less inclined to acknowledge their own circumstances. They view Raids as too hard and that the players who Raid most frequently as too toxic purely because there is a degree of expectation and a measure of personal responsibility each player takes into a Raid and they do not want to fulfill that. They use builds that do not keep up with or fulfill what is needed as a part of a Raid group and when told as much they freak out. Granted I won't absolve the individuals who are behaving in a legitimately toxic manner of their actions, but its something born of a give and take back and forth negative dynamic that has developed over years. Both sides have behaved similarly.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Hex.8714" said:i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

Right, sure, I can fully understand that. However players in your position have plenty of content that fulfills that criteria, even Raids fall into that category. Any of the hardcore raiders in this game can tell you that Raids are silly and pathetically easy, the only challenge seen out of them has been MightyTeapot's Raid event that he held. Players like that however, the hardcore ones, are seemingly ignored in their desire to access harder difficulty Raid or otherwise PvE content.

What they have now
does not
fulfill them and they have expressed as much, yet many try to nail them with this "elitist" and "toxic" distinction because other casual players, like yourself, are less inclined to acknowledge their own circumstances. They view Raids as too hard and that the players who Raid most frequently as too toxic purely because there is a degree of expectation and a measure of personal responsibility each player takes into a Raid and they do not want to fulfill that. They use builds that do not keep up with or fulfill what is needed as a part of a Raid group and when told as much they freak out. Granted I won't absolve the individuals who are behaving in a legitimately toxic manner of their actions, but its something born of a give and take back and forth negative dynamic that has developed over years. Both sides have behaved similarly.

Agreed completely, but saying these things are easy is not accurate as customers skills are very mixed, I have noticed as i've aged my hand eye coordination has diminished to the point of having no hope of ever keeping up with the twitch skills raids demand.. Also the fact of being Aussie and my ping time being up to a second or more behind Americans that demand instant actions.

Now i understand my case might fall out of the norm but having a watered down version of raids would very much be a thing i'd be interested in with other like minded customers.

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@Dante.1508 said:

@"Hex.8714" said:i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

Right, sure, I can fully understand that. However players in your position have plenty of content that fulfills that criteria, even Raids fall into that category. Any of the hardcore raiders in this game can tell you that Raids are silly and pathetically easy, the only challenge seen out of them has been MightyTeapot's Raid event that he held. Players like that however, the hardcore ones, are seemingly ignored in their desire to access harder difficulty Raid or otherwise PvE content.

What they have now
does not
fulfill them and they have expressed as much, yet many try to nail them with this "elitist" and "toxic" distinction because other casual players, like yourself, are less inclined to acknowledge their own circumstances. They view Raids as too hard and that the players who Raid most frequently as too toxic purely because there is a degree of expectation and a measure of personal responsibility each player takes into a Raid and they do not want to fulfill that. They use builds that do not keep up with or fulfill what is needed as a part of a Raid group and when told as much they freak out. Granted I won't absolve the individuals who are behaving in a legitimately toxic manner of their actions, but its something born of a give and take back and forth negative dynamic that has developed over years. Both sides have behaved similarly.

Agreed completely, but saying these things are easy is not accurate as customers skills are very mixed, I have noticed as i've aged my hand eye coordination has diminished to the point of having no hope of ever keeping up with the twitch skills raids demand.. Also the fact of being Aussie and my ping time being up to a second or more behind Americans that demand instant actions.

Now i understand my case might fall out of the norm but having a watered down version of raids would very much be a thing i'd be interested in with other like minded customers.

And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years. I can understand age dwindling reaction time and other such things, I mean I can't play shooters as well as I used to due to carpal tunnel in both wrists but I still manage more than well enough in things I just won't be competing in any tournaments or for that matter placing like...Diamond in R6 Siege (not that I'd want to). Doesn't deter from the facts here, though. The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

I'm all for accessibility for content and other things, ANet just seems like they are being weird about it. Especially since if they are concerned about player accessibility in the game...where are the Colorblind settings? Maybe I'm just being bias because I am colorblind (Deuteranopia/Deuteranomly) and this 7 year old game hasn't added those settings yet.

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@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now.
Years
.If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out
not
to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility
is
a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now.
Years
.If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out
not
to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility
is
a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

Their skill level and unwillingness to raise it with people of likeminded level.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now.
Years
.If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out
not
to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility
is
a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

Their skill level and unwillingness to raise it with people of likeminded level.

To be fair that has been kind of the main thing I've pulled from this. Most of what I've seen as the "main" point why people don't do Raids is that they believe Raiders are toxic and elitist, if only because they ask those who join them to use certain builds.

This isn't an unreasonable thing, at least not in my mind, as the builds that have been developed for Raids were developed that way for a reason and provide the most benefit to the entirety of the group for the role that the build is designed for.

So say someone tries to roll into a Raid group with some Minstrel Banner Warrior as support and heals.

  1. That would be taking up a spot for an actual healer/support build like Firebrand or Druid that does that much better.
  2. You would be hindering the overall DPS of the group as you are not properly built to fill the role that a Warrior fills in a Raid.

This is why people get frustrated. On both sides. Someone wants to do Raids but doesn't take mere moments out of their time to see what builds are wanted and helpful overall in a Raid, and so the Raid players whom want to actually be able to clear the Raid or maybe even teach others so they can get more in depth with Raids are needed to walk them through, or attempt to, setting up an appropriate build. However it seems like often they are met with backlash for doing so and are branded "elitists" for it as well.

I'm not saying there aren't people on the "hardcore raider" side of this that aren't being toxic towards people, but again its a give and take relationship that has spiraled into the apparent division we see today. In fact this whole thing might have started with two people, one on both sides, having been responsible; Some "casual" newbie to Raids bringing a build that isn't very helpful in a Raid getting angry that they can't use the build that they wanted to use then getting attacked and insulted and harassed by the "hardcore" raid player. Both likely acted in a toxic way, had a bad experience, relayed this experience to others, those others then took that one story made an assumption and went into future interactions with that assumption in mind and created even more of those kinds of toxic interactions and here we are today.

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@"Henry.5713" said:People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they think they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

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@bravoart.5308 said:

@"Henry.5713" said:People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they
think
they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

Raiders not counting myself here since I did em later.Did make it easier they did it with zero exp no guides or builds known that they them made free to use for all instead of hoarding that knowlage so yes they made it easier for new raiders to do raids me included.Those training guilds your talking about guess what they got raiders in them aswell doing what you accuse them of not doing helping new people learn to raid.When they train people they arent strikt, but if they want to clear they dont want clueless people either bud.

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I would love to have a "normal mode" on raids, with a difficulty level similar to the current dungeons and the lower-tier fractals.Then the current raid difficulty can become 'hard mode' and the current challenge mode 'nightmare mode'.Rewards should scale up with the difficulty level. Current rewards move on to hard mode. Lower rewards for normal mode. Challenge mode rewards for nightmare mode.

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@bravoart.5308 said:

@"Henry.5713" said:People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they
think
they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

You dont understand that this is game and so it is about fun.Player is having fun -> player playsPlayer is not having fun -> player plays something else

This is not about improving the game or stuff like that. It is about having fun. Most raiders are having fun when they work as a team and smoothly kill bosses. They are not having fun when they have to carry players that dont want to contribure the same. There woukd be bo requirements if all players that join raids were doing ok job. Sadly 90 percent of gw2 comunity are bad players. Look at meta events with some dps meter and you will see 1-3 players with 15k and rest bellow 4k. That is the diference.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now.
Years
.If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out
not
to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility
is
a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

What's keeping many players from accessing Raids is their desire to get carried by other players, like they do in the open world but don't "see" it.

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@bravoart.5308 said:

@"Henry.5713" said:People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they
think
they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

While no one is disputing that there are toxic individuals who cause problems, its true for both sides.

I do have one thing to argue though. What are you talking about with "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out"? Are you referring to someone maybe needing a specific build? Maybe they want a specific class to fill the role of say...healer because with their current setup they have yet to fill that spot? I'm honestly not sure what you're meaning is in saying they "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out". Its already been established that Raid builds are there and are used as they are because they are built to help the Raid as a whole, which is something that I don't view as unreasonable. If that isn't what you're talking about then please elaborate and give an example of these unreasonable requirements that are being asked for.

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@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

While no one is disputing that there are toxic individuals who cause problems, its true for both sides.

I do have one thing to argue though. What are you talking about with "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out"? Are you referring to someone maybe needing a specific build? Maybe they want a specific class to fill the role of say...healer because with their current setup they have yet to fill that spot? I'm honestly not sure what you're meaning is in saying they "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out". Its already been established that Raid builds are there and are used as they are because they are built to help the Raid as a whole, which is something that I don't view as unreasonable. If that isn't what you're talking about then please elaborate and give an example of these unreasonable requirements that are being asked for.

On the matter of builds, I don't particularly disagree with either, though I do have concerns with the idea of "Let's just copy and trust snowcrows and be done with it" but that is a completely different argument.

Simply put, kill proof, LI, and whatever other currencies is a problem, but I've seen everything from requiring an application involving personal information and even behavior requirements up to and even including personality tests. Like I dunno if raiders have just been out of touch so long that they don't know any better but some of these groups that you're requesting people bottleneck into are kinda insane. My last attempt at trying to get into a raiding discord ended with the group deciding that they didn't want to include new members, despite having sat around waiting for a spot for two hours and their run being listed as 'no exp necessary new raiders wanted'.

Like do yall even look at lfg anymore? It's 90% raid selling, static applications and people asking for 250 proofs.

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