Mike Z on pcgamesn.com: Expansions not ruled out

[Knighthonor.4061]

@"Seth Moonshadow.2710" said:Mike Z. is still committed to a future of Living World Sagas.

Mike Z.'s Quote:"he said “I don’t think we have an answer for that one yet. For us, at least today, we know that with the stuff that we want to give – the quality of life improvements, the story we’re trying to tell – Icebrood Saga is the best way we can deliver free content to our players.”" ~https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/new-expansion

Justin's Quote:"PR manager Justin Fassino then added “I think the important thing here, obviously, is that everyone at the studio knows that there’s a demand for an expansion. So it’s not like we’re ruling it out.” ~https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/new-expansion

this to me sounds just like in Vanilla before they told us that they changed their mind on Expansion being a thing, which by that point already the expansion was already in the works.

They cant answer the question about it because they working on an expansion, as somebody pointed out on Reddit, they said early in PoF that they were working on the next expansion back then. All major MMO Developers do this.

But they wont tell us anything about them working on it until they ready to reveal it. Unfortunately, Anet tends to hide this Expansion news until close to the last moment unlike other Developers like Blizzard that will announce the expansion a much early in advance of release.

They know people want expansions is the dead give away. Its their money maker, not the free content. They want the Story to lead into the 3rd expansion for the expansion reveal like LW2.

LW1->LW2->HoT->LW3->PoF->LW4->LW5->Expansion 3

[CETheLucid.3964]

I'm in no rush. It's nice to hear though. I understand the criticisms the community had with the recent reveal but what actually came of it was nothing bad.

Advertising and opening the game to a broader audience (PAX crowd, expac bundling) wasn't a bad thing and they treated their veteran players to free and exclusive gear.

I'm okay with living story being the norm for a bit as long as they add something beefy like elite specs down the road.

They could do something that leads each class down a unique quest and make it something of a story sort of like they did with earlier legendary weapons, but maybe not so exhaustive and collect-y.

Maybe elaborate on the master NPC concept that PoF had going. They had a nice little story about how your new elite spec came to be and themselves but the NPCs didn't really do much but exist.

I'm thinking maybe each class gets one of those again and they take you on a mini-personal story quest to unlock a new elite spec pertaining to the story as it develops. Something like that.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Not ruled out is equal not in work which means....what are they doing in the background now?!

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Vayne.8563" said:Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Not ruled out is equal not in work which means....what are they doing in the background now?!

Gemstore outfits and mount skins! B)

[perilisk.1874]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Not ruled out is equal not in work which means....what are they doing in the background now?!

The Icebrood Saga. There was an announcement and everything.

[Vayne.8563]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing. For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion. It doesn't work like that. By the same token they might be really planning on introducing some expansion level stuff without the expansion wait, because all they've told us is pretty much what they're doing in the first two episodes. My point is, we've had a vacuum of information all along. I didn't expect elite specs soon, even if they were going to come with this expansion.

HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the ass.

People complained about the difficulty. People complained about the grind. People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game. Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc. At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game? We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all. I get it. You want an expansion. I want an expansion. They want an expansion. Except it hasn't necessarily worked out well financially for Anet in the past. It gives them a bunch of income but costs them extra as well.

HoT was stuff they'd been working on and it was made into an expansion largely after the fact. Could HoT have been introduced as a Saga? I believe it could have. Zone by zone, in parts if necessary. Just the say Silverwastes and Dry Top had been introduced.

People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term. I'm not even sure that's the case. We know they're working on content. Expansion or not expansion. It's just a delivery mechanism for content they're already working on. But just six months after the layoffs. I don't know who'd even expect an expansion to be started. I sure didn't.

[zealex.9410]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing. For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion. It doesn't work like that. By the same token they might be really planning on introducing some expansion

Are we ignoring that there was a whole year before the layoffs happened where the company actively decided they werent making an expansion? The layoffs are one thing but its not about them going "lets make an expansion" a week after the layoffs, its going "lets not make an expansion" a week after pof's launch.

HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the

Better isnt the first word that comes to mind when i think of Hot's promotion. From reveal to release it took them 9~ months which severely hurt the hype the innitial announcement had built up

People complained about the difficulty.

Understandable, there wasnt any built up, but it was still managable.

People complained about the grind.

Mostly because it blocked story progression.

People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game. Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

Because there wasnt, anet after alot of the complaining did what anet always does and did a 180 and went for the opposite and as always they overshot the mark, that left pof starved in terms of big map wide meta events, anything that resembled a world boss and very very bad rewards.

At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game? We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all. I get it. You want an expansion. I want an expansion. They want an expansion. Except it hasn't necessarily worked out well financially for Anet in the past. It gives them a bunch of income but costs them extra as well.

Are we ignoring the miserable post hot support for big parts of the game? The terrible pvp balance that killed the pvp scene and esports and the massive problems with wvw?You make it sound like the expansion itself was what was wrong with the game at the time but it was only aprt of the problem, the smallest one imo.

HoT was stuff they'd been working on and it was made into an expansion largely after the fact. Could HoT have been introduced as a Saga? I believe it could have. Zone by zone, in parts if necessary. Just the say Silverwastes and Dry Top had been introduced.

People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term. I'm not even sure that's the case. We know they're working on content. Expansion or not expansion. It's just a delivery mechanism for content they're already working on. But just six months after the layoffs. I don't know who'd even expect an expansion to be started. I sure didn't.

Expacs are still the only way this company pushed the game out to the internet and reached player milestones that years of lw didnt break or reach. Both of their expansions were struggling and that was mostly on anet for swinging to hard on either direction in both cases

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing. For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion. It doesn't work like that. By the same token they might be really planning on introducing some expansion

Are we ignoring that there was a whole year before the layoffs happened where the company actively decided they werent making an expansion? The layoffs are one thing but its not about them going "lets make an expansion" a week after the layoffs, its going "lets not make an expansion" a week after pof's launch.

HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the

Better isnt the first word that comes to mind when i think of Hot's promotion. From reveal to release it took them 9~ months which severely hurt the hype the innitial announcement had built up

People complained about the difficulty.

Understandable, there wasnt any built up, but it was still managable.

People complained about the grind.

Mostly because it blocked story progression.

People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game. Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

Because there wasnt, anet after alot of the complaining did what anet always does and did a 180 and went for the opposite and as always they overshot the mark, that left pof starved in terms of big map wide meta events, anything that resembled a world boss and very very bad rewards.

At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game? We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all. I get it. You want an expansion. I want an expansion. They want an expansion. Except it hasn't necessarily worked out well financially for Anet in the past. It gives them a bunch of income but costs them extra as well.

Are we ignoring the miserable post hot support for big parts of the game? The terrible pvp balance that killed the pvp scene and esports and the massive problems with wvw?You make it sound like the expansion itself was what was wrong with the game at the time but it was only aprt of the problem, the smallest one imo.

HoT was stuff they'd been working on and it was made into an expansion largely after the fact. Could HoT have been introduced as a Saga? I believe it could have. Zone by zone, in parts if necessary. Just the say Silverwastes and Dry Top had been introduced.

People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term. I'm not even sure that's the case. We know they're working on content. Expansion or not expansion. It's just a delivery mechanism for content they're already working on. But just six months after the layoffs. I don't know who'd even expect an expansion to be started. I sure didn't.

Expacs are still the only way this company pushed the game out to the internet and reached player milestones that years of lw didnt break or reach. Both of their expansions were struggling and that was mostly on anet for swinging to hard on either direction in both cases

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm telling you, from Anet's point of view, what they got from two expansions. If it was there fault or not, they might be getting more bang for the buck out of living world and if that's the case it's what they're going to do. Do most players want an expansion? Undoubtedly. Does that mean it's automatically better to make an expansion?

Well a good expansion can propel the game to new heights. A bad or badly handled/promoted/supported expansion can sink the game. So far, expansions haven't been a sure thing. There's an element of risk involved that people don't seem to be acknowledging. It's not like expansion equals success. If that were the case it might be a no brainer.

I don't disagree with everything you say, not even most of it. But it doesn't change the process from a business decision. If I ran a business, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket right now either.

[Randulf.7614]

It’s not overly surprising. They didn’t know they were making ls5 until halfway through making ls4.

Whether the other projects took too much time or whether they were torn about an expac back then, we won’t know.

Anet have never been great planners, but ultimately the saga is going to dominate the next year or two. I’m not overly happy about that but I’ve accepted it. Others need to decide whether to accept it or wait it out in continuous hope for an expac.

[Ghetx.1752]

Typical damage control.

[Ghetx.1752]

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:Lets see..... Factions = HOT Elona = POF Icebrood Saga = EOTN (and the abandonment of new GW1 content). Let the rumors fly that there will be no new expansions and GW3 is secretly underway.

Dream on,dream on.

People want stability,they want to know their hard work wont be gone,which would be the case with GW3.That's why wow is still going on and that's why wow 2 is never going to exist.

Some people spent thousand of dollars on TP,and believe me when i tell you,there would be armagedon if anet announced GW3.

Transition from GW to GW2 had to happen. GW wasn't finished nor polished game.It was nothing but practice for GW2 and what to do and what not to do next time.

Not having a jumping ability in 2005 MMO game,says everything.

[Tiviana.2650]

I said it before and i will say it again. Games have a development team working on future content always, aside from that they have a regular team that works on the current game. If that isnt whats happening then what is the reason why that isnt happening, lack of funding? lack of leadership? lack of ideas? or just done with progressing the game that way...that poses the question is this a a downward spiral into maintenance mode.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Vayne.8563 said:Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing.So what? If what i hope for is not realistic anymore, that's definitely not a good thing. It may explain things, that's true (but see below), but that's definitely not something that is reassuring at all. Quite the opposite.

For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion.

True. They decided to abandon expansions long before that. It's not layoffs that decided we won't have an expansion after ls4 - it was something they decided at least 2 years before.

My point is, we've had a vacuum of information all along.

Yes, we've had that. It's a problem in itself.

HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the kitten.

That wasn't because it was so hyped. It was because they misjudged their player community badly, which caused the expac to be designed in a way that ended up not well-received initially.

People complained about the difficulty. People complained about the grind. People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game.

Among those players that remained. Not among those that left (rather obviously).

Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

Again, that was because Anet didn't really understand what the people really complained ebout. Hint: it wasn't about the existence of the metas.

At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game?

Yes, both expansions helped. Even HoT, that was a mixed blessing, caused the game to be in a better spot that it would have been if the original LS design continued on.

We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all.Remember, that we're at that level only due to expacs. We would have been way lower than that if not for them.

People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term.Because they did.

@Vayne.8563 said:Well a good expansion can propel the game to new heights. A bad or badly handled/promoted/supported expansion can sink the game.Indeed, there's a risk. Unfortunately not taking that risk is not an option, because continuing with the LS reeases only is not a risk, but a certainty of decay. It's the expacs that bring players back to the game, and generate increased interest in it. LS so far has only managed to slow people leaving at best. You are also forgetting (or not mentioning), that a badly done LS can sink the game as surely as a badly done expac. Even more surely, actually, because noone will be hoping the next expac might salvage the problem anymore.

[Vayne.8563]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing.So what? If what i hope for is not realistic anymore, that's definitely not a good thing. It may explain things, that's true (but see below), but that's definitely not something that is reassuring at all. Quite the opposite.

For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion.

True. They decided to abandon expansions

long before that

. It's not layoffs that decided we won't have an expansion after ls4 - it was something they decided

at least 2 years before

.

My point is, we've had a vacuum of information all along.

Yes, we've had that. It's a problem in itself.

HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the kitten.

That wasn't because it was so hyped. It was because they misjudged their player community badly, which caused the expac to be designed in a way that ended up not well-received initially.

People complained about the difficulty. People complained about the grind. People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game.

Among those players that remained. Not among those that left (rather obviously).

Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

Again, that was because Anet didn't really understand what the people really complained ebout. Hint: it wasn't about the existence of the metas.

At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game?

Yes, both expansions helped. Even HoT, that was a mixed blessing, caused the game to be in a better spot that it would have been if the original LS design continued on.

We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all.Remember, that we're at that level only due to expacs. We would have been way lower than that if not for them.

People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term.Because they did.

@Vayne.8563 said:Well a good expansion can propel the game to new heights. A bad or badly handled/promoted/supported expansion can sink the game.Indeed, there's a risk. Unfortunately not taking that risk is not an option, because continuing with the LS reeases only is not a risk, but a certainty of decay. It's the expacs that bring players back to the game, and generate increased interest in it. LS so far has only managed to slow people leaving at best. You are also forgetting (or not mentioning), that a badly done LS can sink the game as surely as a badly done expac. Even more surely, actually, because noone will be hoping the next expac might salvage the problem anymore.

No one said what you hope for is not realistic anymore. Expecting an expansion to start six months after a major layoff is probably optimistic though. Anet is going to try something and see if it can work. If it can't they'll try something else. This is what this company has done as long as I've known them. There will be people that leave because there's no expansion announced, sure. But let me ask you. Why would Anet announce an expansion if they don't know they're they're going to make one WHILE trying something else. They may have an idea for something that they think will do the trick, that's more than what they've done before. Which may be why they changed the name to Saga. Does it mean it will be acceptable to you personally? I don't know. But I think the people who are holding out for expansions or bust, without seeing what's coming, are just assuming the past is like the future. I didn't find LS 2 to be anything like LS 3 to be anything like LS 4. They were all very different. HOT was very different than PoF.

Before HoT game out, people were saying $60 for an expansion of that complexity and depth was too expansive, for a game without a sub, that wasn't pay to win. I didn't think it was too expensive but people said it. They wanted a game for much cheaper. Path of Fire was half the price, but it was also, with the exception of mounts, less of an expansion. People got through it faster and though it had a better reception, people complained more later. At the end of the day, Anet hasn't found the right balance. Will they try again. I think they probably will if what they're doing now doesn't meet with the expectations of the playerbase. But then, this company has the ability to adapt because POF was so vastly different from HOT. You're assuming they lost that ability. I'm not making that assumption. I'm not going to say expansion or bust, since I haven't seen what they have in store during this season. If the word expansion is important to you and it's all that's important to you, you'll either wait or leave. That's pretty much happens to older MMOs. People leave them after playing for many many hours. In the case of WoW, they want from 12.4 million subs to 4 million subs. They lost a lot of people during that time, not to mention not all those people are people who came back which means more than 8 million people stopped playing WoW for good. As long as the playerbase stablizes at a number that can sustain the game, what one person or even what group of people does won't matter much in the scheme of things.

[zealex.9410]

@Vayne.8563 said:People leave them after playing for many many hours. In the case of WoW, they want from 12.4 million subs to 4 million subs. They lost a lot of people during that time, not to mention not all those people are people who came back which means more than 8 million people stopped playing WoW for good. As long as the playerbase stablizes at a number that can sustain the game, what one person or even what group of people does won't matter much in the scheme of things.

This gives off the impression that 8 mil ppl grew out of WoW and stopped playing it, which is wrong, it also gives the impression that they still make the public numbers available which is also wrong.

[Vayne.8563]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:People leave them after playing for many many hours. In the case of WoW, they want from 12.4 million subs to 4 million subs. They lost a lot of people during that time, not to mention not all those people are people who came back which means more than 8 million people stopped playing WoW for good. As long as the playerbase stablizes at a number that can sustain the game, what one person or even what group of people does won't matter much in the scheme of things.

This gives off the impression that 8 mil ppl grew out of WoW and stopped playing it, which is wrong, it also gives the impression that they still make the public numbers available which is also wrong.

When they stopped publishing numbers, it had dropped that low though.

[Marxx.5021]

The company lags developers. A narritive team alone is good for some story elements and thats it.

[TheBravery.9615]

Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

deliberately vague and noncommital statement? everyone get the party van rolling!:/

[Knighthonor.4061]

5 more days

[Knighthonor.4061]

@TheBravery.9615 said:Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

they said a while ago they were making one

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

they said a while ago they were making one

Really? Could you post a link?

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@TheBravery.9615 said:Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

they said a while ago they were making one

No they didn't.

And spreading misinformation won't magically make it happen either.

[Dami.5046]

I really don't think they will. I think we will see another game title over an e-xpac, because Guildwars is a ded game, too grindy, not balanced, not on twitch, boring, got ascended armour, hates wvw and pvp, has too many maps, no one wants cantha, no one wants open pvp, housing and fishing means work, complains, moans, etc.