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GW2’s business model is at odds with its in-game rewards


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What kind of in-game rewards do MMORPGs usually offer? Talking about literal rewards (as opposed to abstract things such as “having fun”, which is theory is always there anyway), we could divide them in three main categories:

  • Power: making the character more powerful (which usually translates to higher numbers). In GW2, power has a soft cap at exotic gear, and a hard cap at ascended gear; there isn’t much more above that. The agony resist mechanic could be considered a kind of power increase, but it’s very niche. Power isn’t really much of a reward in GW2.(Incidentally, games in which power is a major reward usually are very different from Guild Wars 2. When a character is as powerful as possible, why would he continue playing? What those games do is to continuously add more power levels – increased level cap and/or increased gear cap – which often itranslates to the gear treadmill so often seen in other MMORPGs).
  • Convenience: some of the most time-consuming rewards in GW2 fall in this category, such as the convenience of changing our stats with legendary gear, or being able to use the Skyscale to more easily move around. The thing is, games that really want to have convenience as their main reward usually create artificial inconveniences, which isn’t usually the case with GW2. Thus, while we have the eventual convenience reward, they aren’t really the major rewards in the game.
  • Aesthetics: more and better skins. This is the major in-game reward in GW2 – be it new armor skins, weapon skins, infusions, dyes, etc, aesthetic rewards are arguably the most sought and the most important rewards in the game.

In other hand, while Guild Wars 2 has a buy-to-play component, the game relies heavily in its in-game store. Thinking about real money shops in MMORPGs, what do they usually offer? Again, we can divide those in three main categories:

  • Power: basically, pay-to-win. Reviled in the West, it’s somewhat rare for an online game to offer power in its store (ignoring mobile games, of course). GW2 doesn’t really have anything like this in its store.
  • Convenience: such as the shared inventory slots, more bag slots, and so on. However, games in which convenience is the main product being sold usually rely heavily on artificial inconveniences in order to sell convenience. One example of this is The Old Republic, in which even a second skill bar is locked behind a pay wall. While GW2’s store has many convenience items, many aren’t that sought (such as the repair canisters, the revive orbs, etc), and the game has not been filled with artificial inconveniences.
  • Aesthetics: more and better skins. Glider skins, mount skins, outfits (all of which are almost exclusive to the in-game store), weapon skins, armor skins, dyes, etc – this is arguably the most important category in the GW2’s main store.

Do you see the contradiction here? GW2’s main endgame reward is aesthetics. GW2’s main store product is aesthetics. Which means, each new skin introduced as a reward in the game is one less opportunity for ArenaNet to make a profit through their store. Each new skin introduced in the store is one less reward for players to earn in game.The result is a boiling frustration, as players see that their in-game rewards are being hampered by the in-game store. Thus the many requests for mount and glider skins to be made available in game, for more outfits available as rewards, and so on.In the end, it was a poorly-thought decision by ArenaNet to focus both their in-game rewards and their store on the same aspect of the game.

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This conflict of interest has been brought up many times before. Lack of any mount skins that is obtainable in game (as oppose to 3 glider skins), legendary armor not having a 4th dye slot for the particle effect when gem store skins do have them, the poor texture for celestial infusions that was queued to get fixed but ended up in a Loot box outfit instead. And you can even see it on Anet streams, they always focus attention on players with gem store outfits, not hey look at that cool armor combination you can get from doing X Y and Z.At least they haven't started selling infusions in the gem store like the Chinese version.

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I agree that there is a conflict but I wouldn't say it's poorly thought. Not if it already has made them a kittenload of money (which it has).

Also, while Anet's gambleboxes probably tip the scale towards aesthetics, I'd wager convenience is a pretty big seller in the gemstore too. Yes this game doesn't have the various annoyances EA has put in SWTOR, but its convenience items do make a pretty big difference. Especially the ones tied to gold generation in-game (which in turn is tied back to the reward system and the gem store).

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I've been pointing out that skins have been asked to do too much in GW2 for many years, in some of the many threads about rewards. Still, if, as you say, it was a poorly thought-out decision, what would you have ANet do? How could they fund the game?

You do a good job of pointing out the pitfalls of convenience and power sales. Leveraging either would require the game to be a worse experience than it is, unless a player values getting all the goodies in game and doesn't mind paying through the nose to make the game playable. As an aside, I remember beta-testing ToR, coming back to try the F2P version and being shocked at the reminder, "Buy 'optional' sub for second skill bar." -- not to mention several other glaring reminders that meant staying as a free player would be a constant annoyance.

So, leaving aside any of the sales models that are also in-game rewards, what does that leave? Subscription? The GW2 franchise has been sub-free since the original game released. How many of its loyal player-base would bolt if they went sub at this point?

Also, we can see by looking at other MMO's that a primary subscription model has only worked for a handful of games. It's worked for massive IP's like Warcraft and Final Fantasy. It's worked for a niche game with no real competition and lots of developed player investment in Eve. Even Elder Scrolls couldn't make it as a sub game. Every other major MMO I can think of that started as a sub model either went Freemium, free or belly-up.

The question I am always left with is, "Just how big is the demographic which is -- ahem -- complaining about rewards? Is it huge? If it was huge at some point, how many are still playing in the face of seven years of status quo? It's certainly not the whole forum, and the forum distribution is heavily skewed towards complainers. I suspect this is a bigger problem for players who play a lot, just as "lack of content" is a problem for players who log in on episode release day and burn through the story, achievements and maps in a few hours. So, again, the question is how many who play a lot only do so for rewards?

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The definition of "reward" is far too narrow, and hand waving "having fun" is disingenuous at best. Nothing in any good video game is just about "getting the thing", not even in an MMO.

All video game rewards occupy four categories: Entertaining stories/narrative (including emergent gameplay), Feelings of accomplishment, Sense of discovery/wonder, and Expressions of creativity. All of these, though esoteric, are quantifiable, definite, and most importantly, marketable. Everything listed in the OP except cosmetics removes one of those rewards, and sold cosmetics only advance Creative Expression, deciding how to creatively use the thing. In-game rewards, even "just more cosmetic items", advance all four: You had to do something to get the thing, you had to overcome an obstacle to get the thing, you had to find out where and how to get the thing, and you get to figure out how to use the thing. Thus, there is no inherent conflict.

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2012: The community vocalizes overwhelming support for a business model that is buy to play with optional cosmetics in the cash shop and a horizontal progression that doesn't include regular new tiers of gear.2019: The community decides that looking cool is the only thing that matters and cosmetics in the cash shop are not acceptable business practice.

I agree that there's a conflict happening.I'm just not sure it's Anet's design so much as a community that tries to paint "Fashion Wars" as the end game in order to justify it's entitlement over shinies.

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I really don't think this is the case. However, I would absolutely LOVE if we got more of that old school MMO vibe of having rare drops with potentially unique skins. More things like the Branded Eye of Argon, that are far from being as rare as infusions, but drop often enough to be awesome to use and get whispers like "what shield is that?" from that you don't have to answer with "gem store".

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:its 6 years+, its time to add new power cap level, once a time every 6 years dont hurt... its happent to ppl be scared of WoW grind at every year adding a new power cap... but 1 once every 6 years dont hurt nothing.On the contrary, it hurts everything, since it completely invalidates every piece of equipment you got in those 6 years, no matter if it was easy or extremely hard to get.

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@Erasculio.2914 said:Which means, each new skin introduced as a reward in the game is one less opportunity for ArenaNet to make a profit through their store. Each new skin introduced in the store is one less reward for players to earn in game.

I think they split their skin rewards for this reason, although it doesn't always work very well.Armor skins can only be obtained in game, outfits only on the gem store (With some rare exceptions)Weapon skins can be acquired on both, but in-game weapon skins tend to fit with the content more, black lion weapon skins are too flashy and not always lore-friendlyGliders and mount skins are acquired from the gem store, mount skins are their top money earnersAs for convenience, Legendary weapons are acquired from the game (gems to gold for Gen1 excluded) while things like shared slots are acquired from the store.

Having different rewards in content and the gem store is the way to go, so both have a reason to exist and don't compete with each other. Weapon skins is the only part where there is a real conflict of interest.

The result is a boiling frustration, as players see that their in-game rewards are being hampered by the in-game store.

What Arenanet will tell you is that players can get all gem store rewards by playing the game (converting gold to gems). I believe the gold to gems exchange is the hidden reason for all this player frustration. On one hand, mindless/boring endless grinds are more rewarding (in terms of gold) than playing the rest of the game, while all good/rare skins acquired from playing the game are account bound, with a few super rare infusion exceptions. I think player frustration would be lower, if the gem store rewards were accessible in a different way through content, other than mindless farming.

Back when the game was fresh, Arenanet was awarding 500 gems to the team that won a monthly PVP tournament. You needed to win daily tournaments to acquire qualification points, and once you got enough you could queue for the monthly, and the best players for that month got gems as a reward each. That was an excellent way to award some gem store skins, without awarding gem store skins. Of course at that time, PVP didn't have gold rewards, so it made sense to use gems, but it's the concept that counts.

In the end, it was a poorly-thought decision by ArenaNet to focus both their in-game rewards and their store on the same aspect of the game.

Outside weapons skins, they did not. in-game and the gem store have different rewards.

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@"zealex.9410" said:Tl;dr a model that relies more on paid dlc and expansions or expansions and a shb fee or a combination of all 3 is superior.

Yes.

But even the games with a combo of those have cash stores. And the best and/or "shiniest" items are reserved for said stores there too.

As usual in today's gaming industry, why just make money when you can make "all" the money.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:2012: The community vocalizes overwhelming support for a business model that is buy to play with optional cosmetics in the cash shop and a horizontal progression that doesn't include regular new tiers of gear.2019: The community decides that looking cool is the only thing that matters and cosmetics in the cash shop are not acceptable business practice.It's not the matter of cosmetics available from gemshop that is a problem - it's the proportions between game and gemshop availability od certain item categories.

That proportion has significantly changed in the last 7 years.

@ugrakarma.9416 said:its 6 years+, its time to add new power cap level, once a time every 6 years dont hurt...You probably haven't seen how bad the ascended gear backlash was and how it hurt the game. I have.

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If the game is a fashion simulator then you can expect nothing but boring grinds to eek out gold to buy skins. I wont grind i dont play games to grind gold, i play games to have fun. Imho gw2 is just a grind game to get what you want to buy off the store, that or spend rl money on to buy them. I have spent the money because as above i hate grinding for gold when i could be doing other stuff i enjoy. When you have games so focused on selling things, they tend to never add anything new ingame to do. Its all about grinding gold so you dont have to pay real money. I cant see myself in the future playing this game like i did wow, for years and years. There isnt enough to hold me because like above i wont spend my ingame time grinding gold.

Few people do anything i like to do, dungeons raids and quest and story lines which are pretty much non existent in gw2. I guess im a traditionalist when it comes to mmorpgs. I guess i prefer games like wow, lots to do and a ton of story and lore, a lot of zone quest lines that culminate in a finale, ingame rewards that merit what content you do, tons of mounts armor and weapons to collect, many dungeons and raids, and battlegrounds to play in. Reputation is the real grind in that game, and they went overload on it so i left. I dont like grinding that much and at last count there are 103 reps to grind to exalted

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@"Erasculio.2914" said:snip

I agree with most of what you said. You only left out 1 thing: the gem-gold exchange.

While I am not a fan of cosmetics or desirable items in the gem store, giving players the ability to acquire these items with ingame gold (and thus having someone else pay the gems with real money before adding them into the exchange) is one way of allowing players to acquire these items "ingame". It might not be via a specific dungeon or encounter or challenge, but rather via playing the game or things in the game one enjoys.

Personally, I would love a subscription fee for GW2 and less gem store items and focus (don't lynch me, this is my personal preferance). I do realize though that many players prefer the no subscription based model for which the gem exchange was implemented.

As far as powercreep, which came up in this thread. I think Arenanet found a good middle ground here: while technically ascended gear is the hard cap, the new 4-stat combinations were power creep versus the 3-stat ones. Similar with elite specializations and to some extent masteries. It allows for non gear based character developement for players who do not care about chasing the gear carrot on a stick (a nice variation to most other MMORPGS and a USP for GW2).

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@"mindcircus.1506" said:2012: The community vocalizes overwhelming support for a business model that is buy to play with optional cosmetics in the cash shop and a horizontal progression that doesn't include regular new tiers of gear.2019: The community decides that looking cool is the only thing that matters and cosmetics in the cash shop are not acceptable business practice.

I agree that there's a conflict happening.I'm just not sure it's Anet's design so much as a community that tries to paint "Fashion Wars" as the end game in order to justify it's entitlement over shinies.

I would welcome you look at what was monetized back in 2012 and what is monetized now in 2019. Many of the items were the same quality of appearance with what could be earned in game. Currently outfits and one off pieces have better particle effects than anything earned ingame including legendary armor. Mount skins are solely locked behind the gem store. I'd welcome you to compare the skins of w7 to any black lion weapon set, even raid skins are really low quality now. Compare the fractal celestial infusion with the new outfit locked because the rng box.Now to not be disingenuous i will admit fused weapons were better looking than most skins at the time, but that was the exception, not the rule, just looked at the jade and sclerite weapons, which were also obtainable ingame.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:its 6 years+, its time to add new power cap level, once a time every 6 years dont hurt...You probably haven't seen how bad the ascended gear backlash was and how it hurt the game. I have.

hurt? i have 7+ ascended set, i cant imagine how boring game was before because i arrived 4 years ago.. but what was the fun in playing with same exo gear forever?

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@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:Now to not be disingenuous i will admit fused weapons were better looking than most skins at the time, but that was the exception, not the rule, just looked at the jade and sclerite weapons, which were also obtainable ingame.You are painting an incomplete picture in order to support your case. When I look at the last few weapon sets added as ingame earnables, the Funerary, the Forged, the Heroic Dragonsblood, the Stellar set... all of these weapon sets are absolutely the same level of quality as any BL set. When I look at the last two armor sets added to the game, they are absolutely on par with any of the outfits released over the past two years.... and they are armor sets, not one piece outfits that are impossible to customize. You know... exactly what the community asked for.Despite having zero interest in the Starborn outfit (I find it pretty silly and gaudy) I had a BL Key drop while playing in Dragonfall today and got it.That makes it ingame earnable. I earned it in game.Mount skins are solely locked behind the gem store.Gold to Gems means no cosmetic item is "solely locked behind the gem store".@coso.9173 said:i think as a concept having shinies in the gemstore is very good, just not ALL of them. pretty much all glider and mountskins are in there.Yes. The optional cosmetics are in the gemstore. Exactly what the community overwhelmingly agreed was the best business model for the game 7 years ago.But the community, who used to prize the story, gameplay and lore of this series above all else has now become a group that now says the only endgame in GW2 is cosmetics. They toss the breadth of content this game offers completely out the window to argue about mount skins that on average costs less than a latte.@Astralporing.1957 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:2012: The community vocalizes overwhelming support for a business model that is buy to play with optional cosmetics in the cash shop and a horizontal progression that doesn't include regular new tiers of gear.2019: The community decides that looking cool is the only thing that matters and cosmetics in the cash shop are not acceptable business practice.It's not the matter of cosmetics available from gemshop that is a problem - it's the
proportions
between game and gemshop availability od certain item categories.

That proportion has significantly changed in the last 7 years.If you look at the number of in game earnable weapon and armor skins that were added in the first three years of this game post-launch to the amount that's been added in the past two years?

Perception is a funny thing when it's flavored with avarice.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Tl;dr a model that relies more on paid dlc and expansions or expansions and a shb fee or a combination of all 3 is superior.

Yes.

But even the games with a combo of those have cash stores. And the best and/or "shiniest" items are reserved for said stores there too.

As usual in today's gaming industry, why just make money when you can make "all" the money.

Yeah, you cant avoid the cash shop but at least you can havw a fairer ratio of ingame rewards to paid ones.

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