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Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019


Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Also Scourge is the main reason for pirate ship. Hammer Rev only does well because of Scourge. It’s not nearly as strong in “Push” metas.

Pirateship exist since they nerfed stability. Scourges came long after that. So the main reason for pirateship is not the scourge but how difficult it is to push forward through CCs. Even if you were to remove the scourge from the game you'll still be stuck into pirateship.

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Greetings again all,

Guardian

  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW. 10 allies now have avoidence of cc of 3. It is still too much for such low cd skill. CC skill usually affects max 5 players - to overcome that you need at least 6 those skills to be thrown at your group to rid the stab via its counter. It is still too much stab!
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.Nonoby takes this skill as meta is overflown with boon stacking and stab - it is uselles in such composition.

MesmerAgain. Please focus on things that actually matter to the gamplay of mesmer - those changes does not affect the core problems this class has as of now.

  • Illusion of Life: ~~Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW ~~ Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.Can we get the reduced invul time after rally/res/whatever insted as a baseline for all scenarions, not only this? It would be a ton of improvement to reduce the invul frames and reduce the rallybotting. As of IoL still this skill is not worth taking as a utlilty - very situational is group fights/ Please focus on mesmer core proglems. This is not one of them.
  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.I've laughted so hard at this when I realized they it was not as ''baseline' in the rework - just imagine getting your 'weapon 1' affected by this.. GG. Still, this looks poor - and does not solve any current issues with this class.
  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight. Fair. Can we get the LoS fixed in WvW then? You know, the portal up the stairs, walls, uneven terrain etc?
  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.Fair. Can we get the LoS fixed in WvW then? You know, the portal up the stairs, walls, uneven terrain etc?

Necromancer

  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%....
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.Fix: Your Sain Servant can be killed and it is affected by AoE. Or: After 7 seconds you are teleported to your Greater Shade / or just give it the Chrono threatment.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

Can we have more boon strip? Not only on necro maybe?

Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.Perma stealth is a problem, you are trying to fix it from very very wrong end.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.Make it a 'projectle type' - this would shift the meta - one skill to change.
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Suggestion for engi: touch unused trait lines - Explosives and Firearms? Explosives is just... meh, Firearms could be great but grandmaster traits don't make much sense.Something like:

  • Explosives remove a boon on critical with 3s ICD, or
  • Explosives are unblockable (mortar kit & nades, also maybe then Crystal Configuration: Storm from Holo would be a nice choice)

Give engineer a way to deal with retaliation - maybe grandmaster in Inventions?Core engineer needs some more Stability, some more sources than from Elixirs and traited Flamethrower that nobody uses.

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@Alatar.7364 said:

Thief
  • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

This change is a considerable buff not a nerf nor even an adjusment.

Litterally one-upping Ranger's Refined Toxins, which was already strong and got nerfed to 15 sec ICD for PvP over a year ago. Not to mention doing so with an adept tier trait, as opposed to a master tier one.

How can they buff a trait which so easliy applies poison continuously after nerfing a similar trait earlier... Then again, other balance changes they've done earlier also neglected how strong the secondary effect of poison is, regardless of whether you're playing a power or a condi build.

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As a mesmer main I am concerned about the Chaotic Interruption trait rework, although I like the new changes on mesmer alot but I want to know if we mesmers are still able to stack might with Chaotic Interrution?The immobilize on this trait was too good so yes it needs a nerf but to be honest i took the trait for the might stacking. Pls anet let us still stack might with chaotic interruption it opens up so much more viable builds, dont let power mesmers stay on domination traitline forever!

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Engineer

  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

The problem I see here is that you're proposing an inelegant solution to a problem ANET balance devs created. In WvW/PvP this might seem to make sense, except that this will have spillover into PvE.

Prior to the removal of F5 toolbelt, Sneak Gyro made sense. You didn't equip it in PvE unless you wanted to use skip mechanics, so not being stuck with Detection Pulse, a completely useless ability in PvE, wasn't an issue. But now in PvE you are going to replace an arguably useful toolbelt (Chemical Field) with a useless one for anyone wanted to slot Purge Gyro. In PvP/WvW, Chemical Field also has its uses for both DPS and support builds, as dropping a poison field around you to reduce enemy healing is a good thing.

Suggestion: When Sneak Gyro is slotted, replace the Lightning Field generated from Function Gyro with Detection Pulse. Maybe reduce the radius of detection pulse as now it could be cast 600 units away from the Scrapper. This also forces the scrapper to consider Detection Pulse as a resources vs. something to press on cooldown, as now it removes access to range stomp/revive for 30seconds. It will also then have the added effect of revealing any stealth classes that are trying to stomp the target you are aiming to revive, which is something that will likely anger Thief players, but what else is new.

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:Greetings again all,

Thanks for the feedback regarding the proposed changes posted last week.

Below you'll find a set of changes we're looking at which is WvW-centric, as well as a few modifications to some of the changes from the last thread. With these changes the objective is to bring the dominant builds and compositions into line and offer more build diversity to the existing meta. Because there's been some confusion, we want to clarify that we're continuing to balance for other game types, including (as some of you guessed) significant changes to the warrior's Tactics line as well as the necromancer's Death Magic line, ranger sword changes and more.

As before, this isn't the full set of changes we're preparing and this is not a call for general profession feedback.Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

  • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?
  • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
  • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?
  • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

Here is what we're looking at. Previously posted and unchanged items are italicized at the bottom of each profession's section so that it should be easier to focus on the new and changed parts of this set of changes:

Items

  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

Engineer

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
  • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
  • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

Guardian

  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

Mesmer

  • Illusion of Life: ~~Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW ~~ Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

Necromancer

  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

Ranger

  • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

Thief

  • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

Thanks once again for your feedback and for keeping things focused.

Sincerely,~Irenio

I'd take a look at my previous post on the previous upcoming balance. My stance still does not change.As for Impact Savant, you should really consider, for the time being that most things are high DPS oriented, increasing Impact Savant's damage to barrier conversion to 20% or 25%.

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:Items

  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been niceto provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

Engineer

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.

  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they cando with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,

  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving outbarrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline withreduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.

  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

Guardian

  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since manyclasses have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.

  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.

  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.See above.

  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

Necromancer

  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.

  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.

  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.

  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.

  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has mademany professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.

  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.A bit of reveal never hurts.

  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why? searches combat log Oh, revs."anymore.

I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

Thank you for posting about your plan about warrior. I know what you want to achieve is giving warrior somekind of "supportive" role but I am not sure if this change will make us shift from GS/Hammer when playing WvW. To be honest warrior player mostly locked in Defense Discipline Spellbreaker on the zerg play, I tried to use the Strength instead of Defense but it cause a lot of survival sacrifice, meanwhile changing Discipline for Strength is not an option since Discipline is very mandatory.

I would prefer if you can somehow give some buff/tweak to hammer warrior and warrior's survival, so at least we still have the option to use Strength without sacrificing too much survival because switching out from Defense.

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Thank you ANet for healing back the Scrapper a little from the last bat bash.

But I think by removing the group condi cleanse from the antitoxin rune also removes the only reason to use the rune.

Scourges win.(because there are a million of them in WvW and they make the most noise in the forum on how OP the rune is)

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@Mil.3562 said:Thank you ANet for healing back the Scrapper a little from the last bat bash.

But I think by removing the group condi cleanse from the antitoxin rune also removes the only reason to use the rune.

Scourges win.(because there are a million of them in WvW and they make the most noise in the forum on how OP the rune is)

well then nerf scourge condi.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

Also Scourge is the main reason for pirate ship. Hammer Rev only does well because of Scourge. It’s not nearly as strong in “Push” metas.

Pirateship exist since they nerfed stability. Scourges came long after that. So the main reason for pirateship is not the scourge but how difficult it is to push forward through CCs. Even if you were to remove the scourge from the game you'll still be stuck into pirateship.

There were push metas during HoT. Stability was nerfed before HoT. I don't agree with this analysis. Pirate ship exists because pushing is detrimental with as much AoE corrupt/boon strip exists (spellbreaker/scourge)

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@MLinni.6109 said:

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:
Items
  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been niceto provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

Engineer
  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to
    75
    60 seconds in WvW.This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they cando with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,
  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving outbarrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline withreduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.
  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

Guardian
  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since manyclasses have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants
    aegis or
    retaliation.I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    See above.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

Necromancer
  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has mademany professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

Revenant
  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.A bit of reveal never hurts.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why?
    searches combat log
    Oh, revs."anymore.

I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

(or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:EngineerPurge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.Holo wave needed in a fix stop it from hitting you after you actually evaded it. Make one hit that hit the ground at max range insead of a wave spread, fix it height as well.And this nerfs on corona bust and holo wave wont fix the spamness, this crazy damage and its sustain. I had my post about it here -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1014065#Comment_1014065Mesmer

  • Illusion of Life: ~~Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW ~~ Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.

  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.Chrono is still ruined and unplyable in PvP/wvw and super frustrating to play in pve. Wells are unusable under water or no one is going to stay in them. Look at gyro wells that follow engineer, the same should be with a chrono too.Dont see how CI would be strong or OP, I see it as a dead useless trait. Removing immobilize from the old trait was impossible?Ranger

  • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.So longbow range is still bugged and 2000 range? Fix when ?Thief

  • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.Buff to a condi daredevil... isnt it supposed to be nerfed? Are you sure everyone have 5 condi cleanses every 2 seconds?

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Hi Irenio,first of all: thank you for the early information and willingness to discuss changes with the community! Very cool!As Guardian main I will only give feedback to Guardian changes:Stand your Ground: From my point of view this change is counter-productive. To have the same amount of stability as before the only thing you need is even more Guardians. So if your target is to bring in other professions, just add a cool source of stability to another profession. If you reduce the capability of the only class that can bring in stability reliable, you need only more of this class.Tome of Courage: To remove Aegis of ToC 2 is really bad. Not for WvW, but for PvP. As you only get Aegis on yourself this will not really affect full support FB (1 block + a little bit of heal if traited). BUT, at the moment in PvP a second FB build starts to shine, the so called Firesage. This build is only half support, will never be played in WvW (at least not in zergs), but is viable in PvP. This build urgently need some sustain in order to survive some seconds if focused. The Aegis on ToC 2 helped there very much, the block and little heal can help you to survive some seconds until your mates are there to help. If you remove this boon, there will be no impact in WvW, but you will kill (maybe not kill, but nerf hardly) a welcomed more DPS-orientated FB variant in PvP. To reduce build diversity is always bad. Instead maybe removing Protection from Legendary Lore will massively reduce support capabilities of FB while being still viable and letting another viable build survive.All the other changes to Guardians are completely irrelevant (sorry to say ;) ).Thank you again for listening to the community and cu in the game.

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@Virdo.1540 said:Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

(or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

Nono, you misunderstand me here. I am NOT for reducing Rev damage in any way. They could keep the old version of damage for all I care. All I am happy about is the change to CoR that you will finally be able to see the danger zone and have a chance to react to it. Other than in roaming, the shattered ground trail is culled in zerg play so that you don't have any chance to react to it.You should be able to see what's coming and dodge if you can. Whenever I am playing a glassy character and I am suddenly dead without being able to see any attack and have to resort to the combat log to find out what actually happened it irks me.

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@Mil.3562 said:Thank you ANet for healing back the Scrapper a little from the last bat bash.

But I think by removing the group condi cleanse from the antitoxin rune also removes the only reason to use the rune.

Scourges win.(because there are a million of them in WvW and they make the most noise in the forum on how OP the rune is)

To add in : there are many Scourge mains here pretending to be Scrappers and supported the nerf to anti-toxin rune. Come on guys, this trick is getting old.

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:
Items
  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been niceto provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

Engineer
  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to
    75
    60 seconds in WvW.This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they cando with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,
  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving outbarrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline withreduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.
  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

Guardian
  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since manyclasses have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants
    aegis or
    retaliation.I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    See above.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

Necromancer
  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has mademany professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

Revenant
  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.A bit of reveal never hurts.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why?
    searches combat log
    Oh, revs."anymore.

I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

(or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

No. Rev was properly nerfed. The others are not, yet. That's the issue. Lets not bring back the one shot meta.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:
Items
  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been niceto provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

Engineer
  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to
    75
    60 seconds in WvW.This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they cando with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,
  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving outbarrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline withreduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.
  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

Guardian
  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since manyclasses have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants
    aegis or
    retaliation.I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    See above.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

Necromancer
  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has mademany professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

Revenant
  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.A bit of reveal never hurts.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why?
    searches combat log
    Oh, revs."anymore.

I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

(or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

No. Rev was properly nerfed. The others are not, yet. That's the issue. Lets not bring back the one shot meta.

Or anything resembling a 1-skill kill meta. Anet pushed changes to decrease the time-to-kill, which might have been fine in PvP, but in WvW was aweful. Now they need to increase the time-to-kill. And this is coming from someone who liked the Arc Divider revamp, granted it was because Warrior then had their one 1-shot skill to compete with the other 1-shots. I think if they reduced ranged DPS in general and reduced the number of condi stacks in WvW then it would be in a better place. Not saying it'd be perfect, but melee pushes would be easier to do, and we could do away with pirate shipping. That or they need to give access to defiance bars, with limited availability.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It would help to change the Warhorn tunes to make it more obvious to teammates which skill just got used without having to glance away from the battle.

That is a very good suggestion. Anet, if you do not want to create entirely new tunes / sound effects, you can just take the existing sound effect and speed it up for Charge. Since swiftness is the skill most associated with Charge, it will be an intuitive deduction to discern it from Call to Arms.

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Mesmer

  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

The facing requirement still sounds like it will feel absolutely ATROCIOUS in PvE! Please ensure this skill does not simply fail, or spam error messages, when mobs randomly move outside the allowed cone.

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Hey Engi main here, over 6300 hours of playing mostly WvW but have done alot of pvp and pve.

Would your gameplay change as a result? How?- Yes it would I use mostly Holo at the moment as it is the most consistent way of getting results as a roamer, solo or in a small group. I've very aggressive so the range change on Holographic Shockwave doesn't effect me too greatly, but in larger fights it may.

Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game? - I think it'd make me play more careful when using Holographic Shockwave, possible make it seem more fair to the people vsing me also.

Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why? - I look forward to seeing less, less skilled engineer's about. back in 2012-2017 engineer was very very niche. You'd only see the off SD build roaming about, other than that not many of us around, the skill level of us was greater. Although with holo it has added an easier way of getting results, you can easily tell that more and more engineers appearing as a result of holo being added. It does tell how strong holo is for people to really pushing towards the profession. I do like fairness when possible, so I'm looking forward someone, although I'd like to see Major buffs to base engineer, which is partially useless for any situation in wvw. Scrapper and Holo do everything it does and better.

What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes? - I don't have many major concerns. Although I do believe other parts of engi needs a buff also. The unused things like gadgets, base engineer and kits. The focus seems to be on Scrapper and Holo but I never see much for the base. I'm guessing you'll get to it in time, but i am hoping for something soon.

Lastly I do think maybe instead of just nerfing maybe looking into the unused traits and giving them abit more to balance the reason for certain nerfs.

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