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For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!


shadowpass.4236

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a shitty class. I just pick the most annoying fucking skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.gl covering mantra with kiting LOLonly way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

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@lightstalker.1498 said:Just look at this. The build is only acceptable if he can 3 v 1 against them.

Yes because I either die in an outnumbered fight or die to a oneshot. Outnumbered fights, I can sometimes win or else I'll just kite them forever or run away. Oneshots I can't do anything to prevent as someone that's been playing at a high level in PvP since GW2's release.

It's kind of aids that I have 7000 hours in PvP and some rando can oneshot me and nullify all of the practice/experience I've had up until this point because I don't even have a chance to fight back/see them before I'm dead. Fun.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a kitten class. I just pick the most annoying kitten skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.gl covering mantra with kiting LOLonly way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

Shatters can remove boons.

Also, this is getting on my nerves. Yes! Spam your Mirage Cloak like a pebble tier player to cover the entire mantra channel instead of just using it when someone tries to CC you.
Nice
one Silly Face.

Literally it's like I'm trying to explain simple concepts to several different walls. If someone plays like a bot, obviously you're going to have a hard time on mantra mesmers. But if they have a brain, it's stupidly strong.

put some brain power into your bias at the very least. nobody has to STOP THE FREAKING CHANNEL, all they ahve to do is hit you couple of times to make the channel not even worth it, whats the use of channeling stunremove mantra if you gonna lose half hp during its channel, whats the use of channeling daze mantra if you just gonna die becouse 2,5s is a LONG time to be vulnerable.

Yes shatter can remove 1 boon, doesnt change a fact that nobody in history of anything managed to land 3rd sword hit as power mesmer on a light boonless class, unless cleaving corpse or attacking afk player.

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LOOOOOL, you can see mirror blade coming from a mile.Learn how to dodge, dazes don't inmobilize.Learn how to play while you are at it.tip: one shot mesmers have no sustain at all, can be killed from 1 decent damage combo, and have no more disengage skills or offensive setups after bursting.And stop whinning, anet might listen to you and screw up even more.

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Few, we should do something in this forum :
EVERY WHINER SHOULD GET LEGEND/PLAT3 WITH THE OP CLASS THEY WHINE ABOUT TO PROVE IT'S OP BEFORE POSTING PLEASE.

Yes. Great. The season I got r2 was the season I played the most mesmer. I understand how it works (it's literally my 3rd most played class in PvP) and looking at the top 10 every season, Mur seems to agree. He plays mantra oneshot in the top 10 consistently.

you are talking about 4 years ago season ? Like during the chronotank 1.0 hype ???Also you are in NA where everyone and his mother play mesmer ?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a kitten class. I just pick the most annoying kitten skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.gl covering mantra with kiting LOLonly way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

Shatters can remove boons.

Also, this is getting on my nerves. Yes! Spam your Mirage Cloak like a pebble tier player to cover the entire mantra channel instead of just using it when someone tries to CC you.
Nice
one Silly Face.

Literally it's like I'm trying to explain simple concepts to several different walls. If someone plays like a bot, obviously you're going to have a hard time on mantra mesmers. But if they have a brain, it's stupidly strong.

put some brain power into your bias at the very least. nobody has to STOP THE FREAKING CHANNEL, all they ahve to do is hit you couple of times to make the channel not even worth it, whats the use of channeling stunremove mantra if you gonna lose half hp during its channel, whats the use of channeling daze mantra if you just gonna die becouse 2,5s is a LONG time to be vulnerable.

Yes shatter can remove 1 boon, doesnt change a fact that nobody in history of anything managed to land 3rd sword hit as power mesmer on a light boonless class, unless cleaving corpse or attacking afk player.

I find it pretty fucking hilarious that people arguing with me literally explain in detail how they misplay.

Use YOUR brain and stand behind a god damn wall when you're casting them if you don't want to get hit.

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Few, we should do something in this forum :
EVERY WHINER SHOULD GET LEGEND/PLAT3 WITH THE OP CLASS THEY WHINE ABOUT TO PROVE IT'S OP BEFORE POSTING PLEASE.

Yes. Great. The season I got r2 was the season I played the most mesmer. I understand how it works (it's literally my 3rd most played class in PvP) and looking at the top 10 every season, Mur seems to agree. He plays mantra oneshot in the top 10 consistently.

you are talking about 4 years ago season ? Like during the chronotank 1.0 hype ???Also you are in NA where everyone and his mother play mesmer ?

https://imgur.com/ey2btNshttps://imgur.com/a/HXmRGKS

Literally every season I care to put in the effort I'm in the top 10.

I also play on EU with 120-180 ping and consistently place in the top 30 (I never play enough there to have the min games played)

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a kitten class. I just pick the most annoying kitten skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.gl covering mantra with kiting LOLonly way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

Shatters can remove boons.

Also, this is getting on my nerves. Yes! Spam your Mirage Cloak like a pebble tier player to cover the entire mantra channel instead of just using it when someone tries to CC you.
Nice
one Silly Face.

Literally it's like I'm trying to explain simple concepts to several different walls. If someone plays like a bot, obviously you're going to have a hard time on mantra mesmers. But if they have a brain, it's stupidly strong.

put some brain power into your bias at the very least. nobody has to STOP THE FREAKING CHANNEL, all they ahve to do is hit you couple of times to make the channel not even worth it, whats the use of channeling stunremove mantra if you gonna lose half hp during its channel, whats the use of channeling daze mantra if you just gonna die becouse 2,5s is a LONG time to be vulnerable.

Yes shatter can remove 1 boon, doesnt change a fact that nobody in history of anything managed to land 3rd sword hit as power mesmer on a light boonless class, unless cleaving corpse or attacking afk player.

I find it pretty kitten hilarious that people arguing with me literally explain in
detail
how they misplay.

Use
YOUR
brain and stand behind a god kitten wall when you're casting them if you don't want to get hit.

its a missplay to let mesmer shat on you spaming mantras and then let him just walk away to recharge themPS you are the one that thinks mirage cloak can somehow cover mantras.

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Another thing that it's funny enough, you complain about mesmers having 1 stun, do you know that power one shot builds only have that stun? nothing else? and you still wan't to remove it? what are stun breakers for? my god... and this guy is plat, that should speak well enough for that entire game mode.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

Every single mantra charge is instant cast. You'll hear and see the animation AFTER you get hit by them.

Not true, you hear and see it exactly when/during you get hit and not after and as already mentioned they daze you before the burst for the invuln stacks, means you can dodge the burst or at least most parts of the burst. Mantra of Distraction isn't needed for the oneshot at all, you can do the same and that way better with f3 even though the combo needs more timing and for that more skill than pressing 2 Mantras simultaneously. I agree to Mantra of Pain being bad design just like Fa Ele. Also my respect for double Mantra spam player is pretty low. I disagree on your opinion about Mantra of Distraction, without stun it is not a oneshot tool anymore, and not part of the problem you mention with getting oneshot out of 9 secs stealth. As a oneshot Mesmer with enough skill to do the combo with f3 instead it doesn't even make sense to equip Mantra of Distraction, it makes more sense to only use Mantra of Pain and get another disengage/ out of jail tool like Signet of Midnight, in case you fail your burst. I also explained why Mantra of Distraction needs to be instant as an useful interrupt tool but we already had this discussion and as seen it didn't lead anywhere no matter how many facts and other simple based on logic and game knowledge arguments i listed. Yes double Mantraspam oneshot Mesmers don't use it reactive, they use it only for the laughable 5 stacks of vuln and to have an easier life with casting all skills at same time without the need of any timing. For that the reward of Mantra of Distraction in those builds is pretty low and clearly not the reason the oneshot combo oneshots or for the low counterplay when it comes out of longer stacked stealth.

You literally need 3 dodges to cover one Mantra charge completely btw. or another high cd skill (stealth, teleport out of range, 30 secs minimum), means even there is more then enough time the mesmer is highly vulnerable and can be interrupted or forced to cancel the charge by high pressure (most autoattacks are high pressure already, see Holo) you have to count that into the costs of Mantras. Or the Mesmer has to leave/ use los what leads into even more time the Mesmer has no impact during a fight and don't be surprised but most classes have more than enough mobility to easy follow the Mesmer then. The 2+ secs recharge are the reason for the shorter cds overall and that makes sense.

Can you please not going again with your assertion of what is skilled or not ? (lol at the PU might staking :) .) We can discuss again for threads about it if you want.I mean a meta build with no sustain line is meh.

Note that I'm not even considering PU build since holo passively reveal.

Tfw you get hated by both extreme. I better stop arguing in Mesmer threads, i still have bruises from the last debate Mesmer haters and Mesmer mains struck me :anguished:

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@"shadowpass.4236" said:

Mantra of RecoverySome really stupid dueling mesmer specs use this heal skill. It is one of the strongest heals in the game and was a major cause of mirage being overpowered at PoF release.Well it actually has the best heal/s among mesmer heals. That doesn't really mean anything though. A lot of classes have better healing on easier to use skills. Even mesmer has better heals, lol.

Mantra of Pain4k, twice. As in it hits you for 8k with a 1 second cooldown that also gives you max might stacks.I don't like this skill as well, but not because it's high damage. It's just a bad skill promoting oneshot play.

Mantra of ResolveNobody uses it.Yes, people do. It makes you immune to condis and gets abused.I don't get it, I only saw one person using it and he still lost to a condi build. Both on EU leaderboard.

Mantra of Concentration7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a 15 second cooldown is inherently broken.Mesmer doesn't need any other stunbreak than blink and occassional Signet of Midnight. Not even mirage cloak's ability to dodge is needed. Maybe it should be reworked.

Chaos lineIt's broken. In fact, mesmer traitlines have ONLY strong options to pick from. And, they're conveniently placed so you can choose several strong ones in each line.Dueling master tier has no good traits. Adept depends on your weapon. GM has 1 good trait.Chaos has 1 bad trait in adept and master each, while it has only one usable trait in grandmaster.Illusions has 2 good traits in adept depending on your weapon, while having only one good ones in other two.In Domination and Inspiration, all traits are forced take.Mirage has only 1 changes (if you use axe or not) and Chrono is forced take except grandmaster tier.This is very bad. There are no real choices except chaos.

MirrorFlock runes bump that up to 6k healing every 12 seconds that also gives you a 1/4 uptime (or 1/2 uptime because you can reflect and cancel it to put it on a 3s cooldown omegaLUL). If you think that's bad, you're just wrong xdIf you are taking flock runes you won't be oneshotting anybody. Also Mirror has a long cast time, and reflect is only good against projectiles. A lot of classes don't even have blockable projectile CC.

Sword autoattack 3rd chainUh huh but shatters remove boons D:Yes, so? It's not like 3rd chain hits instantly.

About removing Berserker amulet from PvPBanish them in WvW as well.In that case I agree.

They are not meta for a reason, lol.Who cares if they are meta. They are unfun to fight against and completely bloated.Well that depends on person. It's not like something should be nerfed because it's "unfun to play against". Mesmer as a class is supposed to be unfun to play against.

I agree with you on one point though: Oneshot needs to go, with really precise nerfs.

Watch Zeromis play. He doesn't play meme oneshot builds and actually uses his brain when playing this game.I watched a lot of mesmer players, from good to bad. I watched enough thief players too, if you know what I mean.

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@"kraai.7265" said:You can still see the blade coming even if mesmer is in stealth.Even if i cast it right beside you, if you can't react to a greatsword flying towards you out of nowhere you are not looking at the screen. And even if you dodge late you can still evade most of the burst and the phantom.Have you ever tried to do that? most of the times you lose the clones intended for the one shot burst trying to do that, mesmers use diversion for safe stomps, or getting out tricky situations.Showing your pvp rank as if it means something, this post is a meme, don't you know that game mode is almost empty? plus the best players are gone, every idiot with a metabattle build reaches plat with enough luck, i reached plat every season during this year and i suck at this game, plus i mostly play off meta builds.And btw, which stealth are you crying about? the one with 30 sec cd, which gives 3 seconds? or the one with 70 sec cd which gives 6? none of them seems overpowered at all...

Yes, you can see Mirror Blade coming if the mesmer casts it at range. However, a good mantra mesmer will cast Mirror Blade when he's standing ON TOP of you (which you won't know he's there because he's in stealth). It instantly hits you and there's no tell until after it hits. By that time, you're already dead.

I play a variety of games and sports competitively, including shooters. I have a fast average reaction time for both visual and auditory stimuli. For example, I can dodge Hunter's Shot on ranger (ranger LB3), pre-nerf Spear of Justice (DH F1), and Infiltrator's Strike (thief S2) 100% of the time if I'm paying attention. I'm telling everyone in this thread that there is nothing for me to watch out for on the mesmer burst if they execute it properly.

Also, Diversion is the f3 daze/stun on mesmer. You're thinking about Distortion. lol.... like I'm trying to take you seriously but you're literally mixing up skills

My dude I've been at the top of the leaderboards since they came out.

You can say whatever you want but I've been playing at the highest level since GW2 came out and ESL still existed.

No, I'm talking about the 9 second AoE stealth on a 48 second cooldown that pulses defensive boons.

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@bravan.3876 said:Not true, you hear and see it exactly when/during you get hit and not after and as already mentioned they daze you before the burst for the invuln stacks, means you can dodge the burst or at least most parts of the burst.You literally need 3 dodges to cover one Mantra charge completely btw. or another high cd skill (stealth, teleport out of range, 30 secs minimum), means even there is more then enough time the mesmer is highly vulnerable and can be interrupted or forced to cancel the charge by high pressure (most autoattacks are high pressure already, see Holo) you have to count that into the costs of Mantras. Or the Mesmer has to leave/ use los what leads into even more time the Mesmer has no impact during a fight and don't be surprised but most classes have more than enough mobility to easy follow the Mesmer then. The 2+ secs recharge are the reason for the shorter cds overall and that makes sense.

Sure, the animation and sound plays as soon as you get hit. The average human reaction time is 250 ms. So, by the time you see the visual/audio cue and react to it, you're dead.

You can literally press Diversion .0000000001 seconds right before the Mirror Blade hits and you'll get the stun pretty much at the same time the GS2 connects.

Seriously???? lol lol lol lol lol I really struggle to comprehend why these concepts are so difficult for people to wrap their heads around.

When I said you can cover the mantra charge with Mirage Cloak I didn't mean spamming your fucking dodges like a bot. See, what an intelligent player would do is dodge if they see a skill that can cc them during the animation. This is the second time I've had to clarify this on the thread and I'm not going to do it a third time.

ALSO oh dear oh dear okay.... mantras are a hit and run spec, if you're facetanking a fucking teamfight Silly Face, you have no idea how to play the build. Kiting and using LoS till your burst is back up is perfectly fine if you're able to down someone every 12 seconds.

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Cant tell if serious or just trolling

You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. Fucking the forums are incredible.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Cant tell if serious or just trolling

You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

I have and adapted to overcome. I made friends with one and we dueled a lot. Learned a lot as well. Even main one in WvW because of it (not even meta 1 shot either)

If you truly want to learn to deal with them, there are ways. Its easier to QQ on the forums however and demand nerfs.

That said, what else ya got?

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Cant tell if serious or just trolling

You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

I have and adapted to overcome. I made friends with one and we dueled a lot. Learned a lot as well. Even main one in WvW because of it (not even meta 1 shot either)

If you truly want to learn to deal with them, there are ways. Its easier to QQ on the forums however and demand nerfs.

That said, what else ya got?

Fight a good mantra mesmer. By good, I mean one in the top 10 consistently.

I've known dozens and dozens of mantra mesmers since release but there are only two that I'd consider good. Mur and CJ.

Oh, and before you say there are good mantra mesmers in WvW. I won't disagree with you. However, there's a difference between people who roam and the people who specifically spam practice 1v1s and 1vX matchups over thousands of hours. WvW fights aren't rating locked and are a lot more sporadic than sPvP. So, you'll get better, quicker, in sPvP as a result.

So, when I say Mur and CJ are good at mantra mesmer, I mean it's very, very difficult to kill them because they kite well using the tools provided to the class COMBINED with the fact that they can very reliably (and unpredictably) land their entire burst on you which will insta kill you if they catch you with it.

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