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Druid is overrated (edited title)


wefal.8426

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Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

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@wefal.8426 said:Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group, one noticable exception being spirit bridge wing 5 for example.EditFirebrand is a great second healer for the group that needs that alto tempest and renegade works just aswell.I as a druid have never ever got this praise you speak of unless people notice when I spirit revive 4-5 people at sloth or matthias etc.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@wefal.8426 said:Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group, one noticable exception being spirit bridge wing 5 for example.EditFirebrand is a great second healer for the group that needs that alto tempest and renegade works just aswell.I as a druid have never ever got this praise you speak of unless people notice when I spirit revive 4-5 people at sloth or matthias etc.

whats your build?

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@wefal.8426 said:Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

1) You really don't have even a basic idea of what's druid's role.2) This post should be moved to ranger sub forum

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@wefal.8426 said:

Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group

Firebrand can provide all boons except for Alacrity.

That doesnt matter. All firebrand boons are 5 man. Druid provide perma 25 might and very high uptime on protection and fury to 10 players. Basicaly all other boons (exept quickness and alacrity) are not that valuable. Same for heals, if druid is enough to soloheal then firebrand healing is way too much.

Firebrand has no spotter or spirits. Only thing that FB provide us healing (which isnt required)

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Druids finally getting the love and praise they deserve, heh?On a serious note, 10-man spirits, 10-man Might, Avatar heal spam, mobility through staff, immobilizes on certain encounters, etc... there are many reasons why you would want a Druid in your squad. A lot of their strengths are perfect for a squad size of 10. However, they are nowhere near as broken and irreplaceable as they used to be BUT people go with what they know and more importantly what they have. They underestimate Firebrands lacking the experience on the class similarly to your own feelings about Druids - a class you do not know too well yourself.It mostly comes down to the fact that people still see and use the FB as nothing more than an off-healer in raids. A rather replaceable position that can be taken by so many builds (including a second Druid). Even more so given the many instances where players choose to forgo the use of the major offensive support feature of the Firebrand: "Signet Sharing" in favour of slightly increased healing. Condition groups in particular profit greatly from that double Signet of Wrath.

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  • Entangle for seekers (VG, in combo with glyph of tides), spirits (Gorse), Wargs (escort), Rigom (Sama)
  • Longbow skills and glyph of tides for both Samarog (Rigom) and SH Golems
  • Spotter for overall increased damage
  • Moment of clarity trait for the Eyes (Statues)
  • Spirits (teleportation is a good thing btw)
  • Staff 3, probably best mobility skill in game, and if you fly into sama slam, sabetha flame pools and so on it really is YOUR fault, because EVERYTHING either is telegraphed or can be anticipated
  • Pushing at KC with Staff
  • Pets for cc, rooting or pulls (on Trio, Qadim elementals)
  • great potential for condi removal (celestial 2, signet of renewal, healing spring)
  • great potential for hard and soft cc (celestial 3 and 5, staff 4, storm spirit, frost spirit, glyph of tides, electric wyvern)
  • For BK at deimos you can go GS and use 4 for an additional panic block when not covered by chrono

Feel free to add whatever I have forgotten.So to me it seems you have misunderstood Druid, it's not just a heal and boon bot, it's a highly supplementary class for raiding mechanics.

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@wefal.8426 said:Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone?

Huh?! I have neither played nor seen a druid in a long time, because it's so inefficient in solo open world PvE. Your perception may be flawed.

If this is merely about raids, then perhaps you should brush up on your knowledge. ;) The boons and support provided are significant.

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To be fair, I think that druid is overrated. It used to be godlike but constant nerfs took it much closer to other options, especialy glyph of empowerment removal.

In my mind, there are 2 types of healers. First and second.First healer is there to provide nececary buffs, that is might, fury and protect, to whole squad with decent healing (that is not the main focus)Second healer provides utility, safety and quality of life bonuses.Right now there are 6-8 healers. They are:DruidHeraldRenegadeFirebrandScourgeTempestScraper (dont know anything here)Heal boon thiefOut of those, first healers are Druid, healthief and Herald. They are not best heal healers by any mean but they have the boons and buffs. Out of those 3 druid is the most wellrounded, thief is best but work only on few fights and herald is best in not perfect runs. One of my guilds is using heal herald instead of druid with high succes.All of those build can be second healers but I think that those not listed in first category are better. Reason is that all boons are already covered nd other options provide more safety and utility.

Each of those builds have some advantage. Major advantage of firebrand is role compresion. You can be quickness bot and healer in hybrid compositions (firebrand, alacrity renegade, chrono, first healer).If you dont use this advantage then I feel like other second healers there (exept renegade, same stuff) are better options because they provide more.

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@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@wefal.8426 said:Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group, one noticable exception being spirit bridge wing 5 for example.EditFirebrand is a great second healer for the group that needs that alto tempest and renegade works just aswell.I as a druid have never ever got this praise you speak of unless people notice when I spirit revive 4-5 people at sloth or matthias etc.

whats your build?

My druid is full harrier usualy 3-5 spirits depending on boss

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:To be fair, I think that druid is overrated. It used to be godlike but constant nerfs took it much closer to other options, especialy glyph of empowerment removal.

In my mind, there are 2 types of healers. First and second.First healer is there to provide nececary buffs, that is might, fury and protect, to whole squad with decent healing (that is not the main focus)Second healer provides utility, safety and quality of life bonuses.Right now there are 6-8 healers. They are:DruidHeraldRenegadeFirebrandScourgeTempestScraper (dont know anything here)Heal boon thiefOut of those, first healers are Druid, healthief and Herald. They are not best heal healers by any mean but they have the boons and buffs. Out of those 3 druid is the most wellrounded, thief is best but work only on few fights and herald is best in not perfect runs. One of my guilds is using heal herald instead of druid with high succes.All of those build can be second healers but I think that those not listed in first category are better. Reason is that all boons are already covered nd other options provide more safety and utility.

Each of those builds have some advantage. Major advantage of firebrand is role compresion. You can be quickness bot and healer in hybrid compositions (firebrand, alacrity renegade, chrono, first healer).If you dont use this advantage then I feel like other second healers there (exept renegade, same stuff) are better options because they provide more.

Out of interest, why wouldnt you list Tempest as a first healer?

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:To be fair, I think that druid is overrated. It used to be godlike but constant nerfs took it much closer to other options, especialy glyph of empowerment removal.

In my mind, there are 2 types of healers. First and second.First healer is there to provide nececary buffs, that is might, fury and protect, to whole squad with decent healing (that is not the main focus)Second healer provides utility, safety and quality of life bonuses.Right now there are 6-8 healers. They are:DruidHeraldRenegadeFirebrandScourgeTempestScraper (dont know anything here)Heal boon thiefOut of those, first healers are Druid, healthief and Herald. They are not best heal healers by any mean but they have the boons and buffs. Out of those 3 druid is the most wellrounded, thief is best but work only on few fights and herald is best in not perfect runs. One of my guilds is using heal herald instead of druid with high succes.All of those build can be second healers but I think that those not listed in first category are better. Reason is that all boons are already covered nd other options provide more safety and utility.

Each of those builds have some advantage. Major advantage of firebrand is role compresion. You can be quickness bot and healer in hybrid compositions (firebrand, alacrity renegade, chrono, first healer).If you dont use this advantage then I feel like other second healers there (exept renegade, same stuff) are better options because they provide more.

Out of interest, why wouldnt you list Tempest as a first healer?

I was thinking about it and It would be the 4th option. With 1 trait modification (from SC website) you can provide quite high might and uptime on other boons which can be further improved by warhorn. The reason why it is not included is bad fury uptime. With pact runes on chronos It might be enough to just increse the duration but I am not sure. Another reason was that this build has almost 0 cc. I know that I havent wrote it there but you can take cc as form of dps increse. It would be there if I was sure that there is at least very high uptime on fury, and protection on whole squad. I dont play this so I am not sure but If I am wrong, then I would add it. I would love to be wrong, new options are always welcome :D

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I was thinking about it and It would be the 4th option. With 1 trait modification (from SC website) you can provide quite high might and uptime on other boons which can be further improved by warhorn. The reason why it is not included is bad fury uptime. With pact runes on chronos It might be enough to just increse the duration but I am not sure. Another reason was that this build has almost 0 cc. I know that I havent wrote it there but you can take cc as form of dps increse. It would be there if I was sure that there is at least very high uptime on fury, and protection on whole squad. I dont play this so I am not sure but If I am wrong, then I would add it. I would love to be wrong, new options are always welcome :D

You give Fury by blasting fire fields.CC is 600-900. 150 from Warhorn Air 4 and Water 4, another 300 - 600 from Icebow which you can take on the CC heavy fights. Its lower than Druid but its not that bad.With Afterhock you give 5 Seconds of Protection to 10 people, without any boon duration. So you can give up to 10 Seconds from one Skill. Considering that you can extend the protection and that your Chrono(s) will also extend and give some Protection is almost always fine. You can Swap the Fire traitline to earth if you know that fury wont be an issue to guarantee protection on 10 players.

Btw. Might is perma 25. Obviously people need to know how to play this but the same can be said for the other healing classes.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:I was thinking about it and It would be the 4th option. With 1 trait modification (from SC website) you can provide quite high might and uptime on other boons which can be further improved by warhorn. The reason why it is not included is bad fury uptime. With pact runes on chronos It might be enough to just increse the duration but I am not sure. Another reason was that this build has almost 0 cc. I know that I havent wrote it there but you can take cc as form of dps increse. It would be there if I was sure that there is at least very high uptime on fury, and protection on whole squad. I dont play this so I am not sure but If I am wrong, then I would add it. I would love to be wrong, new options are always welcome :D

You give Fury by blasting fire fields.CC is 600-900. 150 from Warhorn Air 4 and Water 4, another 300 - 600 from Icebow which you can take on the CC heavy fights. Its lower than Druid but its not that bad.With Afterhock you give 5 Seconds of Protection to 10 people, without any boon duration. So you can give up to 10 Seconds from one Skill. Considering that you can extend the protection and that your Chrono(s) will also extend and give some Protection is almost always fine. You can Swap the Fire traitline to earth if you know that fury wont be an issue to guarantee protection on 10 players.

Btw. Might is perma 25. Obviously people need to know how to play this but the same can be said for the other healing classes.

Blasting fire fields for fury is only If you have fire traitline and only for 5 players. Icebow is huge breakbar boost but you loose some might uptime right? It woundnt likely matter.But you obviously have more knowlage there then me. Can you post a build you would use so we are debating over the aame thing? Thank you

Edit: indeed blasting is only 5

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Blasting fire fields for fury is only If you have fire traitline and only for 5 players. Icebow is huge breakbar boost but you loose some might uptime right? It woundnt likely matter.But you obviously have more knowlage there then me. Can you post a build you would use so we are debating over the aame thing? Thank you

Edit: actualy I am not sure about number of targets for blast combos.

While blasting is only for 5, you copy the boons to your allies, which has a 10 target cap.You would lose 2 Stacks of Might from Flash Freeze. Not that important.

I can post the build in about 7h. I cant access gw2skills atm.The Traits however are:Water2-2-2 if you need Condition Removal, otherwise2-3-2Tempest3-1-3 or3-2-3 if you dont want or dont need auras on 10 players.

Now you can choose between Fire (Fury) and Earth (10man Protection and 5 Man Stab)Fire1-2-1 for extra Condi Cleanse, otherwise1-3-1

Earth3-2-doesnt matter

I usually dont run earth, since the protection uptime on my group will always be 100% and the protection on the other group will be good enough and can also be 100% depending on the Chronos.

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@wefal.8426 said:

Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group

Firebrand can provide all boons except for Alacrity.

Not to 10 people.

You fail at basic group setup. Chrono is still the primary tank/class chosen when creating a raid group. Druid synergizes ideally with chrono. Mystery solved as to why druid is chosen as primary support for 10 people content.

As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Blasting fire fields for fury is only If you have fire traitline and only for 5 players. Icebow is huge breakbar boost but you loose some might uptime right? It woundnt likely matter.But you obviously have more knowlage there then me. Can you post a build you would use so we are debating over the aame thing? Thank you

Edit: actualy I am not sure about number of targets for blast combos.

While blasting is only for 5, you copy the boons to your allies, which has a 10 target cap.You would lose 2 Stacks of Might from Flash Freeze. Not that important.

I can post the build in about 7h. I cant access gw2skills atm.The Traits however are:
Water
2-2-2 if you need Condition Removal, otherwise2-3-2
Tempest
3-1-3 or3-2-3 if you dont want or dont need auras on 10 players.

Now you can choose between Fire (Fury) and Earth (10man Protection and 5 Man Stab)
Fire
1-2-1 for extra Condi Cleanse, otherwise1-3-1

Earth
3-2-doesnt matter

I usually dont run earth, since the protection uptime on my group will always be 100% and the protection on the other group will be good enough and can also be 100% depending on the Chronos.

And what statset? Harrier or magi?

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:And what statset? Harrier or magi?

I use a Magi Harrier Mix.Shoulder Chest Gloves and Leggings are Harrier, As well as the weapons and trinkets except for the accessorys.Transference and Conc on the Weapons, Healing Infusions and Monk Rune.

You can however go full minstrel and tank as well. Tanking is pretty easy and it allows your Chroonos to play really offensive.

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

Firebrigade has more dps than chrono+druid.

Even a solo heal firebrand without renegade outperforms a solo druid as far as carrying a team.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

Firebrigade has more dps than chrono+druid.

That's whay I said. CM comps have (and require) a ton more dps than regular pugs, so firebrigade is the choice. In no little cases they play 5 dps.

Even a solo heal firebrand without renegade outperforms a solo druid as far as carrying a team.Again, that hapens in a CM group, where they barely need heals. In a regular (headless) pug druid is way way more useful.
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