For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

[shadowpass.4236]

@Koen.1327 said:can you elaborate why you're not mentioning gs and f1 even though that's 80% of the dmg?why delete mantras and not gs or stealth?

Mantra of Pain hits for 8k in the combo and both MoP and MoD apply 5 stacks of vulnerability each. The former also gives 12 stacks of might on a 1 second cooldown lol.

By themselves, GS and F1 won't be enough to oneshot unless the person has the lowest hp pool class, no extra vitality, and no extra toughness.

[bravan.3876]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:And it got already mentioned to you, that it is not only cc it can be simple autoattackspam that makes the Mesmer unable to finish the cast and cancel it duo to pressure. Also you assuming that a glass canon Mesmer always has a dodges rdy to cover the cast, as if he doesn't need to dodge at any other time. Whatever the Mesmer has to invest at least one dodge or 30+secs cd skill to cover the charge and has no impact on the fight during that. And if nothing is rdy the Mesmer has to wait out for cds to cover it or to disengage and runs around with uncharged Mantra longer than the base cd. These all are high costs. But you deny that ,what is a biased, not based on facts opinion and you will not change it no matter what ppl tell you. So keep with it and get oneshot by 2 out of how many active Mesmers playing in NA? From my experience as someone played against Mesmers i had no problem to use the recharge to my advantage, even easier in conquest when more than one player can attack him. If you don't focus a Powermes and let him snack your team 1 by 1 and disengage without following him to death it is a problem of wrong target priority. But i also know at least 10 counters to Mantra of Distraction during you feel the need to complain about it. Lifes in this game can be so different based on game knowledge...

As said i am with you in regard to Mantra of Pain, stealthspam/stacking and Chaosline. Everything else is a l2p issue in my opinion, even though i am not a fan of oneshotbuilds and think that it is the only way for lower skilled ppl to play a Powerburstmes when they have no ability/skill to outplay ppl in a more reactive fight without being carried by passive sustain. Still as you say, only 2 Mesmers in whole NA during the life time of GW2 can play it in a way, that they are able to make it fast enough that you personally cannot react to it. What an insane high rate /s (and isn't at least Mur not accused several times of using macros by other higher skilled players knowing what they talk about? Means not the usual accuse of low skilled ppl have no clue what you can do with good keybinds and fast clickrate and reactiontime. I think i remember talks like that on more than one NA stream, among them Shorts and Zeromis)

From your posts i would not think you are over average skilled (don't argue with the joke of lb rating pls)

, means no NA Mesmer can land a burst out of 3 secs stealth or without stealth fast enough to hit a rly good player aware of a Burstmes being around. NA must be heaven for everyone knows how to play vs Powermesmers...

Walk. Behind. A. Wall.

If you guys

refuse

to use line of sight and insist on facetanking damage and trading poorly, don't kitten tell me mantra mesmer is bad when you guys are LITERALLY telling me exactly why you guys are struggling with it.

Dude... I play this kitten build also when I'm memeing. I'm not as good as CJ and Mur but anyone, and I mean

ANYONE

can 100-0 someone from stealth. It's one of the easiest combos to pull off because the other person doesn't even know you're there.

I have pretty good map awareness. I was capping nodes last night in one match, looking around to see if there was anyone coming to contest. Nothing. There was no one. I was panning my camera around, looking at the different paths around the map. Boop! Insta dead, multiple times that game. Mantra mesmer stealthed for so long and from so far away he killed me without me knowing he was there.

What am I supposed to do? Spam dodges randomly and use defensive cooldowns when there's nothing else except for empty space? At one point he went invis for so long he broke combat and I wasn't sure if he was still there so I had to keep dodging and trying to predict the burst after 12+ seconds of stealth. Like.... that's so kitten ridiculous. I ended up greatsword 4 blocking the burst at the end of my 4th dodge but since Mirror Blade is unblockable I was left with about 4k health regardless.

lol I play on EU too on my alt account and consistently place in the top 30 with 120-180 ping. You guys have some magical mass-delusion that somehow EU players are better than NA. In reality, there are about the same number of actually

good

players over there. The only difference is that there are more average plat 2-3 players so the ques are better.

I mentioned Los and still these are cost for the recharge you just don't wanna get it as said. It is your problem though not mine in the end. I am not the one get oneshot by Mantramesmers. I can get oneshot by stealthspam (in terms of Mesmer: stealth stacking with Massinvis+ other stealthskills) builds totally can burst out of nowhere without me even knowing that a Mesmer or Thief or whatever is around. I already agreed to you about that but that has at max to do with one Mantra. You even make it clear yourself once again in your last post, that your main problem is stealthspam so you don't know that a Mesmer is even around and not the Mantra spam itself and not the Greatsword burstcombo itself. It is only the stealthspam. And you running through open doors in my case with that. All i say is that you need to clarify more what you rly complain about, you don't even know yourself it seems. Everything you write cries stealthspam yet Mantras is the topic name which have barely or even nothing to do with the oneshot and the stealthspam for the inc out of nowhere. Quite the opposite a Mesmer with 2 Mantras equipped has less stealth. You complain about a lot of things aside, where i say that is clearly a l2p issue on your side and nothing that is unbalanced. I am not the first and not the only one telling you that yet you still deny.As said stop arguing with lb no matter if it is EU or NA lb. I didn't say anything about general NA vs EU. It was only related to the Mesmertopic, from what you write NA seems to be Powermesmer paradise and for that also paradise for everyone who knows how to play vs Powermesmer better than you, that is all i said.

Again, i agree with you in regard to oneshotbuilds with a lot of stealth, to Mantra of Pain and to Chaosline. Everyhting else is a l2p issue on your side and Anet should not listen because it will dumb down the class to help low skilled ppl and casuals.

[praqtos.9035]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Look, I'm not even gonna try to justify, explain my reasoning or lack of struggle against it anymore. Not in all of my years playing this game have I had issues against a mesmer even when they could stun and that's just my final thoughts on it, call me bad or just unable to play against anyone competent because it seems no one is ever good enough, that's all I ever hear and with that I say that nerfing them anymore would pretty much ruin the profession altogether.

I'd have many answers as to why this hopeless situation might have turned differently for her, but overall. Just one evade was available and that's all it would have taken to avoid it, being aware is much easier to anticipate and nothing shows that the mes didn't cloak right in plain sight behind her before he came. Whenever there is one that "exists" it's the thing I always look out for with both my eyes and ears, period. Have a good day.

Explain what Zeromis (the best mesmer in the game) could've done differently in this situation.

Youtube timestamp

Do you think it's fine that he insta died from full health, completely nullifying all of his years of practice and experience, because there are builds that can stealth from so far away that you can't even see them coming, then land a completely frontloaded burst with no cast times on at least half of the skills, that can do 20k worth of damage in under a fifth of a second?

Chrono is completely dead, oops.You kill fast and get killed just as fast with no means to escapes.He used torch 4 right at the top of the ramp where purple smoke(or sound from it) from torch 4 would be visible for Zeromis if he would actually look there.Look at this epic 1x1 with a holo (10-40) who had following utilities : holo wall, UTILITY GOGGLES, RIFLE TURRET? That was the best part of the video xD

[shadowpass.4236]

@bravan.3876

Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

[bravan.3876]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @"everyman.4375"

Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

Wow that example cut you in your own knee bud. I mean i didn't say anything about NA vs EU and i rly don't want this discussion but i watch a lot of streams incl NA ones and i always was surprised how even highest rated NA player get oneshot easy by even obvious burst. Yet the twitch link is a good example of totally unaware gold play lvl i had in mind. No, with being totally honest this never happend to me like that.

[bravan.3876]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876

Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876

Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

Someone else said something like that, like half the dmg during stealth, on the first view doesn't seems like a bad idea though

Yet still a waste of time talking to you, you just stop reading when you know there will be arguments you can't deal with. Sad and cringe

[Shao.7236]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:My last reply pretty much answers your own. We both come from different genres, I play twitch shooters like it's a living. My best reaction times goes as low at 185ms worst case being 250ms which is still below the average human. Given that this burst took one full second and half to pull off, as a herald condition, I can do 3 things;

Press Infuse Light (Very Easy), Evade (Easy, scrap some health) Stunbreak and Shield 5 (Harder, probably lost 16k+ health over 24k). If it takes more than a second, my chances of survival are pretty high. Because the "best" mesmer in GW2 can't compensate for it doesn't mean nobody can't. I've already shown past the video that I can do so as soon as I see "anything" wrong on the screen and I can react to it and also unlike many players I have all the gear and connection to pull it off. Joke being that this isn't CSGO where I have to actually aim where I see an anomaly, here all I have to do is press ONE button (Or two) and I'm alive. I can understand it's not something people can always do, but if some people can survive through it you probably can and thus this is why I think this whole ordeal is unnecessary, if mesmer can't deal damage like they are now, they are better as being removed from the game entirely since ANYTHING can oppress them easily even if they build around sustain.

If I ever happen to either sustain, dodge or die again to an actual mesmer burst the moment it happen, I'll personally post it to you, just for the hell of it.

As for Naru opinion, obviously but he still plays meta like no tomorrow so what gives? One shot is by no mean all skillful but it still takes application, some people are better than others at it, like CJ. Again it's probably not meta because people are good enough at dealing with it.

Edit: Also sharing more shorts? Why? Don't call someone bad if you have to rely on their material.

[shadowpass.4236]

@bravan.3876 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @"everyman.4375"

Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

Wow that example cut you in your own knee bud. I mean i didn't say anything about NA vs EU and i rly don't want this discussion but i watch a lot of streams incl NA ones and i always was surprised how even highest rated NA player get oneshot easy by even obvious burst. Yet the twitch link is a good example of totally unaware gold play lvl i had in mind. No, with being totally honest this never happend to me like that.

So you're telling me EU players all have wall hacks?

How was Zeromis supposed to see Shorts if he stealthed halfway between mid and the node he was on.

[shadowpass.4236]

@bravan.3876 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876

Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876

Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

Someone else said soemthing like that, like half the dmg during stealth, on the first view doesn't seems like a bad idea tho

Yet still a waste of time talking to you, you just stop reading when you know there will be argumants you can't deal with. Sad and cringe

No I just don't feel like reading walls of texts from forum tier players when I have other stuff to do (like getting ready in the morning).

tldr EU players have no idea how to play mesmer and stealth oneshots are busted

[bravan.3876]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @"everyman.4375"

Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

Wow that example cut you in your own knee bud. I mean i didn't say anything about NA vs EU and i rly don't want this discussion but i watch a lot of streams incl NA ones and i always was surprised how even highest rated NA player get oneshot easy by even obvious burst. Yet the twitch link is a good example of totally unaware gold play lvl i had in mind. No, with being totally honest this never happend to me like that.

So you're telling me EU players all have wall hacks?How was Zeromis supposed to see Shorts if he stealthed halfway between mid and the node he was on.No I just don't feel like reading walls of texts from forum tier players when I have other stuff to do (like getting ready in the morning).

What Zeromis and Short? I saw a girl playing Ranger focusing on beast with zero awareness

I think i mentioned that already, from what i have seen on Zeromis stream and other NA Mesmer streams i am pretty sure we have Powermesmers in EU just as good or even better than Zeromis but that is a useless discussion as long as you do not make Zeromis coming to EU and duel few of them or vice versa. I also agreed to try it myself even tho i am not Mesmer main and play mostly Condi when i play that class. I never heard from the poster again after that... Tbh i doubt Zeromis is even the best mechanically in NA he just has a team, overall a rly good team that doesn't rly have any competition, makes it easy for him to shine. Still calling someone best without any prove and highly doubtable that it is true for the purpose of proving your own arguments as true is poor tactic and makes no sense.

Yep as said waste of time talking to you, the moment you run out of arguments you just devalue ppl and hope your nonsense arguments will survive by doing so. Again pretty poor. If your ingame skill is the same lvl as your debate skill i am not surprised you have problems left and right.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:My last reply pretty much answers your own. We both come from different genres, I play twitch shooters like it's a living. My best reaction times goes as low at 185ms worst case being 250ms which is still below the average human. Given that this burst took one full second and half to pull off, as a herald condition, I can do 3 things;

Press Infuse Light (Very Easy), Evade (Easy, scrap some health) Stunbreak and Shield 5 (Harder, probably lost 16k+ health over 24k). If it takes more than a second, my chances of survival are pretty high. Because the "best" mesmer in GW2 can't compensate for it doesn't mean nobody can't. I've already shown past the video that I can do so as soon as I see "anything" wrong on the screen and I can react to it and also unlike many players I have all the gear and connection to pull it off. Joke being that this isn't CSGO where I have to actually aim where I see an anomaly, here all I have to do is press ONE button (Or two) and I'm alive. I can understand it's not something people can always do, but if some people can survive through it you probably can and thus this is why I think this whole ordeal is unnecessary, if mesmer can't deal damage like they are now, they are better as being removed from the game entirely since ANYTHING can oppress them easily even if they build around sustain.

If I ever happen to either sustain, dodge or die again to an actual mesmer burst the moment it happen, I'll personally post it to you, just for the hell of it.

As for Naru opinion, obviously but he still plays meta like no tomorrow so what gives? One shot is by no mean all skillful but it still takes application, some people are better than others at it, like CJ. Again it's probably not meta because people are good enough at dealing with it.

Edit: Also sharing more shorts? Why? Don't call someone bad if you have to rely on their material.

I play shooters as well. I started off in competitive Black Ops. I currently compete in Apex Legends pro scrims/tournaments and I used to play Fortnite pretty competitively. But I'm not going to drop names obviously.

Good reaction time btw. Mine is around 180-185.

Dude, you can't see the burst coming from stealth lol. The time you have to react is the time it takes for you to see the first hit from Mirror Blade and the time you're dead. Which, because Mind Wrack, MoP, and MoD are all instant cast, you're pretty much dead as soon as you see the first damage number.

You wouldn't be able to pop Infuse Light while you're stunned/dazed btw. So, you'd die in that scenario.

If Shorts isn't good, yet he can still 100-0 one of the best players in the game, use your imagination and think about how much more frequently Mur and CJ could do it.

Mur one shotting Helio

[praqtos.9035]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@praqtos.9035

Unfortunately it looks like there are no good power mesmers on EU. D:It's not that hard to land an instant cast burst after stealthing for 9 seconds but apparently you guys just can't seem to figure it out. Very unfortunate.To be a good power mesmer they should play PU core mesmer? Didnt know that /s

[Shao.7236]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Infuse Light is "instant" cast, just like evade. You're talking about the Facet itself, which I always leave on because Healing Power and Elder's Respite, people who don't are bad heralds for not having their saving grace available to themselves, it's the most overpowered heal skill in the game, though Riposting Shadows was actually the cure to the old mantra stun since you couldn't evade out of that.

Trust me, you can do it if you're ready for it, if it's not for instantly doing it as fast as it come, you will come alive hurt.. But alive.

Edit: I mean if people fall for the same trick over and over with the proper tools there's clearly a problem.

[Math.5123]

Is this the classic Domi, dueling chaos Chrono build with mantra of pain, mantra of distraction blink, decoy and signet of midnight?

In all seriousness though. Chrono has been removed from PvP. And while power mirage can be viable (I queue with probably the strongest power mesmer in eu atm and we sit in top 10 currently. Me on core guard) it's nowhere near as godly as you make it out to be.

Also, removing core guard from the game? Did you miss the past 3 patches?A duelist demo slb can burst just as hard with quickness axe 5. I guess that's fine though. Core ranger with speed runes can crit for 16k with gazelle. These aren't even "one shot builds"

Just because you don't like a genre of builds doesn't mean they should get deleted.I absolutely hate fighting side node rangers and soulbeast. I hate fighting defense spellbreaker. Chaos mirages and Holos of all sorts, but especially prot Holos. I hated fighting scrappers and Chrono bunker 2.0. I really don't like these sustainy builds as i think they are incredibly bloated with defense while still having comparable damage to burst builds ratio wise.

While I don't like the way mantra of pain is used, they are kinda pidgeonholed into running it at this point.

Also, do you just want to remove the entire mesmer class? It's already not great, (outside of this unbeatable godly power version). You don't want them to run power, you don't want them to run chaos.That leaves dueling illusion Condi mirage.

[Erzian.5218]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

My dude I've been at the top of the leaderboards since they came out.

• Season 4: https://imgur.com/a/mWXg5nb
• Season 11: https://imgur.com/a/HXmRGKS
• Season 17: https://imgur.com/ey2btNs

You can say whatever you want but I've been playing at the highest level since GW2 came out and ESL still existed.

It’s funny when you try so hard to prove something but your evidence boils down to legend prestige 2 in season 4 (lul), having enough rating to be ‘top’ very early in the season (aka when many people won’t even have enough games played yet and additionally with only 11 games played after duo queue placements) and then at least you have one screen shot about being top tier at a random point of time, which is something but still not a lot. I also had times when I was top 10 for some time but that was in a different meta, on a different class and I also played differently/better due to different circumstances and motivation -> in short: it doesn’t mean anything for performance today.

Perhaps if you were less full of yourself and instead willing to improve, power Mesmers wouldn’t trouble you so much. The last time I remember actual top players (people who are consistently at the top, not only when the stars align) struggling against gs Mesmer was when sizer and helseth were still a thing and HoT was yet to be released.

I agree with you though, that Mesmer is unfun to play against (which is unhealthy for the population) and I couldn’t care less if they nerfed mantras but from a performance perspective, it seems unnecessary. The same is and has almost always been true for ranger. Ranger and (usually condi) mes have always carried players (including myself), simply because it’s more difficult to pay close attention to two or more different moving objects (player + pet/clones/phantasms) than to one (player), which is prone to make it feel unfun or even feel unfair for players of other classes.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

not sure why skill is being discussed at length here. the mantra burst can be done by basically anyone.

[Tayga.3192]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:not sure why skill is being discussed at length here. the mantra burst can be done by basically anyone.

The discussion is about the skill of the one getting oneshot, not the oneshoter. Otherwise I agree, it's easy if you don't have high ping.

[RosySefein.8072]

Okay, so I've been playing Mantra Power Shatter since before elite specs were even a thing. When mantras had 3 charges, when they gave +600 toughness on a charge.I played it with chrono meta, I still play it now on base PU Mesmer. It's probably the only mesmer playstyle I actually enjoy.

I think it's fair to say @shadowpass.4236 this is a learn to play issue for you. I probably took a phat dump on you in ranked this season which is why you're upset.I think you forget that mantra charging can be interrupted, they're a two pop utility and usually, a burst combo means we're exhausting a full arsenal of cooldowns for a CHANCE to pop a player to downstate. With all the passives in game like signet of stone, endure pain, elixer S, random dodges, heals, protection uptime, blocks, barriers, full counter and large HP pools necros have it's not exactly an S tier playstyle. The amount of times a full burst gets wasted on a RANDOM dodge bro, no joke...

1 shot builds can be 1 shot by "non1 shot build" classes. Condition damage, lockdown, there are so many ways to punish the playstyle.It just grinds my gears to see people complaining about mantra's, but it's not like it matters because Anet already has plans to nerf them with the unreleased balance consideration post.ON TOP OF THAT, What else do you want me to play fam? Condi's are boring, and Mesmer has literally no other build that's effective and fun to play. If it's the only build I enjoy playing that is remotely (emphasis on REMOTELY) viable, why ruin that? There is no other option, no alternate. Burst builds are fun, they're also killable.

At the end of the day it's a gimmick playstyle and build.

Also shout out to my boy Mur. Can't wait for my main account to get off a 6-month ban lol

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:not sure why skill is being discussed at length here. the mantra burst can be done by basically anyone.

The discussion is about the skill of the one getting oneshot, not the oneshoter. Otherwise I agree, it's easy if you don't have high ping.

as long as one shot builds exist people will fall victim to them and claim no counter play, and they're not far off. those types of builds are bad design imo and should go.also I can still pull it off with high ping.

[apharma.3741]

As usual Shadowpass is exaggerating his claims, the heal mantra takes about 15s to fully cycle not 12s and using the charges above 50% health only heals for 1.6k so you're more likely to get 6.5-7.5k healing per 15s from it. That is if you're not getting interrupted, easy on mirage but try core/chrono and GL.

The 2 offensive mantra's are kind of dumb, low skill, high reward.

Thing is, is it any more out of line than the rest of the spamfiesta that is the game at the moment?

[Daishi.6027]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

Biggest bunch of BS and alone is proof of how lacking you are.

Outside of portal mesmer blinks once ever 30 seconds for 1200 range, and if mirage that's plus a couple jaunts and a couple leaps at the cost of endurance, and then MAYBE you get half way across the map, and that's more than enough for you to see them coming.

Most mesmers, particularly one shot builds carry around 5-6 seconds of steath. Two of which have massive tells, and one consisting of a signet which is not only a give away among clones, but lets you know that he has it. The only really sneaky one is Decoy which A. makes a clone, and B. has a 40 second cooldown.

The entire burst combo can be avoided by 1 dodge and has a 3/4 second windup, and unlike thief can't evade spam (because mesmer adheres to the same average number of defensive cooldowns, and flat out less than any medium class.)

You say "No tell", but that "no tell" is your own lack of awareness for the map or your opponent. No one's fault other than your own if you can't anticipate a combo in at most a relatively short 5-6 second window while knowing that they need to end a 3/4 cast at a specific distance if they want to one shot.

This is a super easy to play around window of stealth, and has more than enough leeway to punish whiffs.(imagine if thief played by this rule.)

Also one shot builds don't run chaos. You NEED MA in dom and and SC in dueling to one shot anyone who isn't an ele or thief who is typing.and by the by, if they have 2 mantras, they only have 3 seconds of stealth on demand.

[Evodium.6058]

i 100% agree with shadow about mantra mes. Your burst from stealth isn't telegraphed believe it or not. Especially when you do it behind something and they don't see you coming. Mantra mesmer isn't interactive at all. Mantra of pain is a spammy no skill skil that does at least 3k on average. Mantra of distraction was super aids with CI. And berserker amulet should be removed because the most obnoxious builds use that amulet to maximize dps. Mantra mes mains can cry all they want saying x mesmer build is no skill but everyone but you guys agrees that mantra mes is not skillful at all. And you couldn't play a single other mesmer build besides that build.

[bravan.3876]

@Daishi.6027 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

Biggest bunch of BS and alone is proof of how lacking you are.

Outside of portal mesmer blinks once ever 30 seconds for 1200 range, and if mirage that's plus a couple jaunts and a couple leaps at the cost of endurance, and then MAYBE you get half way across the map, and that's more than enough for you to see them coming.

Most mesmers, particularly one shot builds carry around 5-6 seconds of steath. Two of which have massive tells, and one consisting of a signet which is not only a give away among clones, but lets you know that he has it. The only really sneaky one is Decoy which A. makes a clone, and B. has a 40 second cooldown.

The entire burst combo can be avoided by 1 dodge and has a 3/4 second windup, and unlike thief can't evade spam (because mesmer adheres to the same average number of defensive cooldowns, and flat out less than any medium class.)

You say "No tell", but that "no tell" is your own lack of awareness for the map or your opponent. No one's fault other than your own if you can't anticipate a combo in at most a relatively short 5-6 second window while knowing that they need to end a 3/4 cast at a specific distance if they want to one shot.

This is super easy to play around window of stealth, and has more than enough leeway to punish whiffs.(imagine if thief played by this rule.)

Also one shot builds don't run chaos. You NEED MA in dom and and SC in dueling to one shot anyone who isn't an ele or thief who is typing.and by the by, if they have 2 mantras, they only have 3 seconds of stealth on demand.

Coremesmer can pretty easy oneshot ppl with taking Chaosline in addition to Domination/Duelling. And after Chrono nerfs you find them a lot even in EU. Also the problem is, that Coremesmers are forced to use Massinvis (for the lack of other good elites) during Mirages mostly run Jaunt. And these core builds can stack stealth for a very long time , too long time, and they also can go back in stealth more often. In addition Chaos adds passive boonsustain very strong vs power builds.

There are reasons why most oneshot heroes played old chrono pre nerf with double Mantra carried by Lost Time giving double instant cast dmg now switch to Core and not to Mirage. Powercoremes and in particular Chaosline core is way easier to play and has more burst than Powermirage what is the strongest when played as utility based spec with clones on dodge and interrupt trait instead the dmg traits. Powermirage is a lot more reactive when played with these traits, also with Zeromis kind of spammy double signet build. Even Zeromis build needs to outplay ppl way more than a stealthspam oneshot or a double intant-dmg Mantra oneshot Chrono pre nerf. Both builds carry lower skilled player still want to play power and not condi for whatever reasons.The problem mostly isn't the amount of burst dmg itself, it is the combination of high dmg combined with braindead mechanics like high instant dmg on max range (double Mantra+Lost Time) or the abuse of stealth (Core chaosline). For most Powermesmer i met ingame it is simple as that: They play these carried by broken mechanics oneshot builds because they cannot outplay ppl on a glassy spec and for that run a nonreactive build to compensate that missing skill. Ofc not impressive and these meme oneshot builds are clearly not the only "viable", they are just easier than not-oneshot-powerbuilds. I mean i am hypocrite to judge because when i play Mesmer i play condi but tbh these kind of oneshot builds are not that far away from the noobcarry lvl of a Condimirage who only needs to dodge on a safe spot and let clones do all the work. Both are barley reactive and have easy to apply dmg, only the punishment for mistakes is higher on power oneshot builds (not rly when using chaosline though). But without Chaosline/ Lost Time (old Chrono), Mantra of Pain and Massinvis i barely see a problem.

[asterix.9614]

I like the op.

[yusayu.3629]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:Cant tell if serious or just trolling

You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

What you say here has almost nothing to do with your original post. The only Mantra you can conceivably consider decent is Distraction. And that's on a meme oneshot-build that can at most trade one-for-one because in order to land its burst it puts almost all its skills on CD and then just gets killed by the rest of your team.

But, OK, I'll humour you and actually answer your original post.

I'll say this ahead of time before I react to them: Mantra charge-up skills are almost irrelevant. If you let the enemy charge up their mantra in fight and don't bother to interrupt them you probably shouldn't play PvP and this entire thread is pointless.

Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.

I don't know where you have these numbers from, according to the wiki it heals 1,640+0.25HP or 2,620+0.4HP (HP = healing power). Did you pull those numbers out of your ass?

Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.

Which build currently plays this? The might stacks are for 5 seconds, so you'd have to use this before trying to apply your burst. That's difficult to time due to the long charge-up time of the Mantra and the lack of Stealth if you were to use this (you ONLY have Torch 4 if you're playing instagib-Mirage, your other skills are Oasis, this, Distraction, Blink, Jaunt). This might do 4k damage without protection or any defensive stats, but if you're playing without those you deserve to die anyway.

Mantra of Distraction is busted. Two, instant cast, 1200 range, 1.5 second dazes on a TWELVE second cooldown that also recharges Diversion by 15 seconds. Insanity.

It recharges Diversion when you charge the mantra, so that part is worthless in a fight. The dazes are strong, and Distraction is the only Mantra you could consider viable. But a good build has access to multiple stacks of Stability which it should be able to shadow with other boons to prevent stripping. Do that.

Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.

I don't know if you're unable to read, but the conditions are ONLY removed when you charge the Mantra. If you're standing around while fighting a Mirage and you let them charge their Mantra for TWO AND A QUARTER SECONDS without interrupting them you're still inept and this thread is still pointless.

Wanna hear something funny? The Firebrand has Contemplation of Purity which CONVERTS ALL conditions into boons on an instant-cast with 32sec cooldown (using Monk's Focus) that also breaks stuns, while Power Cleanse CURES a mere 3 conditions while not even breaking stuns.

No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.It gives 3 stacks of Stability for 3 seconds and breaks stuns.

Here are some other ones:Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.

No build uses this.

Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...

I don't think any build is even using chaos anymore, but I could be wrong.

Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???

Are you new to this game? Not considering the fact that that heal is a joke compared to something like Mantra of Solace or Consume Conditions, reflect is a worthless buff considering that most classes it's useful against have unblockable attacks AND it heals for almost nothing.

The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.

No it doesn't.

See, it's people like this that are the reason CI was removed. They aren't interested in learning anything, they come here to whine about mechanics that are neither particularly viable nor particularly used, they refuse to adapt and they probably don't even play ranked.

Honestly, why are ANet listening to trolls like this?