Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Updated Sept. Engi Balance Changes


Chaith.8256

Recommended Posts

Items

Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

Engineer

Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 60 (no longer 75s) seconds in WvW.Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

  • So here we see ArenaNet listening to feedback on Antitoxin runes, keeping Purge Gyro at 5 in WvW. Excellent change
  • Less severe Sneak Gyro WvW nerf
  • Photon Forge nerfs, 20% Corona Burst damage and big range reduction on Shockwave, 600 to 300.
  • Impact Savant nerf reduction! Only penalizes 180vit. Also talk of letting Condi Scrapper exist through impact Savant.

Seems like they listened a lot to player feedback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Chaith.8256 said:Items

Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

Engineer

Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 60 (no longer 75s) seconds in WvW.Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

  • So here we see ArenaNet listening to feedback on Antitoxin runes, keeping Purge Gyro at 5 in WvW. Excellent change
  • Less severe Sneak Gyro WvW nerf
  • Photon Forge nerfs, 20% Corona Burst damage and big range reduction on Shockwave, 600 to 300.
  • Impact Savant nerf reduction! Only penalizes 180vit. Also talk of letting Condi Scrapper exist through impact Savant.

Seems like they listened a lot to player feedback.

Yes! I am in favour of most of these. Sneak Gyro cooldown increase will be annoying for small scale and IMO not make a dent in large-scale, but whatever. It's a powerful effect.

Photon Forge nerfs have been a long time coming. Holo Shockwave has always felt like it goes waaay too far for a pbaoe cc. I think 300 is a better range. ~400 tops.

I can hold out some small hope that condi scrapper might be a thing again too.

Antitoxin rune nerf needs to happen. It's too effective at what it does - and I say this having played a lot of support scrapper in wvw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@knite.1542 said:The holographic shockwave range nerf is pretty big but overall, I think holosmith will still be a pretty dominate roaming class. Not too concerned about the corona burst nerf.The shockwave radius has been ridiculous from the start. You cant see it on an engie since we dont get an AoE indicator, but we do have a comparison - its literally as large as the supply drain on a treb. And anyone thats stood in one knows that field is frikkin huge.

I really want to see if they can make impact savant work with condi, despite the sneak gyro nerf hurting that change makes me hopeful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The change to rune of antitoxin was sufficient enough to reduce the impact of cleansing scrappers. I don't think they need to double-whammy purge gyro.
  • Sneak gyro change is fine.
  • Change to corona burst is fine.
  • HS change strikes me as a little odd for a WvW-focused balance change, seems more relevant to sPvP. But, I don't play WvW enough to really have a stake in this one.
  • Impact Savant change is immensely appreciated. This change would be sufficient to see offensive scrapper become relevant again.
  • Chemical field change feels thematically inappropriate, even if it's kind of a buff for WvW support scrapper. I think it might be smarter to leave chemical field, but add an AoE reveal onto the poison field.

Overall... alright. I'm glad to see they listened on several of the changes. It'll be nice to see more utility in offensive scrapper builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't help feeling like we are being haggled with.

  1. Propose an insane change.
  2. Propose a lighter change that seems reasonable by comparison, use this momentum to suggest further changes.
  3. People forget the class took a massive nerf that broke core aspects of the scrapper and that this patch is at best implementing some light nerfs and reimplementing a tool they took away (and probably in a weaker form) at the cost of another (poison field for downed cleave and weakness). Notice how there are no proposed changes to the function gyro itself.

Honestly the reduction in vitality penalty is still undercooked given id argue the trait isn't worth any vitality reduction at all given the removal of vital traits like rapid regen and adaptive armor (to name a few of the big hits, just ignoring the removal of stab on dodge and damage mods).

Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

Good thing i got the original game (not gw2, the real guild wars) to wait for people to figure things out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@miriforst.1290 said:I can't help feeling like we are being haggled with.

  1. Propose an insane change.
  2. Propose a lighter change that seems reasonable by comparison, use this momentum to suggest further changes.
  3. People forget the class took a massive nerf that broke core aspects of the scrapper and that this patch is at best implementing some light nerfs and reimplementing a tool they took away (and probably in a weaker form) at the cost of another (poison field for downed cleave and weakness). Notice how there are no proposed changes to the function gyro itself.

Honestly the reduction in vitality penalty is still undercooked given id argue the trait isn't worth any vitality reduction at all given the removal of vital traits like rapid regen and adaptive armor (to name a few of the big hits, just ignoring the removal of stab on dodge and damage mods).

Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

Uhh, more PTSD, less Stockholm syndrome. Remember what they did to turrets?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:I can't help feeling like we are being haggled with.
  1. Propose an insane change.
  2. Propose a lighter change that seems reasonable by comparison, use this momentum to suggest further changes.
  3. People forget the class took a massive nerf that broke core aspects of the scrapper and that this patch is at best implementing some light nerfs and reimplementing a tool they took away (and probably in a weaker form) at the cost of another (poison field for downed cleave and weakness). Notice how there are no proposed changes to the function gyro itself.

Honestly the reduction in vitality penalty is still undercooked given id argue the trait isn't worth any vitality reduction at all given the removal of vital traits like rapid regen and adaptive armor (to name a few of the big hits, just ignoring the removal of stab on dodge and damage mods).

Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

Uhh, more PTSD, less Stockholm syndrome. Remember what they did to turrets?

u mean removing the ability to throw ur turrets to places unreachable to other players? fml

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"miriforst.1290" said:mods).Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

I dunno if being happy that ArenaNet is lessening nerfs on Scrapper is Stockholm Syndrome. Scrapper needed nerfs. They shuffled a few damage traits around pointlessly, stripped away all passive sustain, and really flubbed Function Gyro. We're all angry with how these changes flailed about and messed up perfectly good things instead of efficiently dealing with the too-survivable problem.

I would consider Scrapper pretty much working as intended when:

  • Function Gyro gets its health fixed, or better yet becomes a well like every other Gyro, with the same radius and affecting traits.
  • Damage Dampener does something to reduce incoming damage like: "If you have a barrier, the delayed damage is reduced by 50%" or something similar.
  • Adaptive Armor gets a little something, like, increased barriers by 20-25%, up from 15%.
  • Impact Savant gets a little something, like barrier conversion to 20-25%, up from 15%.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"miriforst.1290" said:mods).Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

I dunno if being happy that ArenaNet is lessening nerfs on Scrapper is Stockholm Syndrome. Scrapper needed nerfs. They shuffled a few damage traits around pointlessly, stripped away all passive sustain, and really flubbed Function Gyro. We're all angry with how these changes flailed about and messed up perfectly good things instead of efficiently dealing with the too-survivable problem.

I would consider Scrapper pretty much working as intended when:
  • Function Gyro gets its health fixed, or better yet becomes a well like every other Gyro, with the same radius and affecting traits.
  • Damage Dampener does something to reduce incoming damage like: "If you have a barrier, the delayed damage is reduced by 50%" or something similar.
  • Adaptive Armor gets a little something, like, increased barriers by 20-25%, up from 15%.
  • Impact Savant gets a little something, like barrier conversion to 20-25%, up from 15%.

Seriously? Lol a good scrapper already takes 2 people to take down, these buffs u might as well run 4 in conquest and just camp nodes lmao

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Seriously? Lol a good scrapper already takes 2 people to take down, these buffs u might as well run 4 in conquest and just camp nodes lmao

Two things:

1) A good scrapper is not good in conquest right now. I'm a good Scrapper, Holo can be built to be more survivable and dangerous...2) You probably don't understand my suggestions very well. I'm suggesting all Scrappers get a working Function Gyro and convert at least an additional +5% more damage to Barrier. For major traits, I'm saying that for Damage Dampener to be equal to Object In Motion. Object in motion is a 10-15% more damage under realistic conditions. I'm suggesting Damage Dampener be around a 10% damage reduction under realistic conditions, not unreasonable for a major trait going up against Object In Motion, my dude. As it is right now, Adaptive Armor is quite trash, it's clearly the worst of the 3 Grandmasters. Doing a minimum +5% to barrier generation in combination with the previous suggestions not going to double the amount of people you can tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:I can't help feeling like we are being haggled with.
  1. Propose an insane change.
  2. Propose a lighter change that seems reasonable by comparison, use this momentum to suggest further changes.
  3. People forget the class took a massive nerf that broke core aspects of the scrapper and that this patch is at best implementing some light nerfs and reimplementing a tool they took away (and probably in a weaker form) at the cost of another (poison field for downed cleave and weakness). Notice how there are no proposed changes to the function gyro itself.

Honestly the reduction in vitality penalty is still undercooked given id argue the trait isn't worth any vitality reduction at all given the removal of vital traits like rapid regen and adaptive armor (to name a few of the big hits, just ignoring the removal of stab on dodge and damage mods).

Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

Uhh, more PTSD, less Stockholm syndrome. Remember what they did to turrets?

u mean removing the ability to throw ur turrets to places unreachable to other players? fml

Way more than that. Turrets (except HT) were rendered largely inoperable for a few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"miriforst.1290" said:mods).Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

I dunno if being happy that ArenaNet is lessening nerfs on Scrapper is Stockholm Syndrome. Scrapper needed nerfs. They shuffled a few damage traits around pointlessly, stripped away all passive sustain, and really flubbed Function Gyro. We're all angry with how these changes flailed about and messed up perfectly good things instead of efficiently dealing with the too-survivable problem.

I would consider Scrapper pretty much working as intended when:
  • Function Gyro gets its health fixed, or better yet becomes a well like every other Gyro, with the same radius and affecting traits.
  • Damage Dampener does something to reduce incoming damage like: "If you have a barrier, the delayed damage is reduced by 50%" or something similar.
  • Adaptive Armor gets a little something, like, increased barriers by 20-25%, up from 15%.
  • Impact Savant gets a little something, like barrier conversion to 20-25%, up from 15%.

Whole heartedly agree with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ghos.1326 said:

@"miriforst.1290" said:mods).Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

I dunno if being happy that ArenaNet is lessening nerfs on Scrapper is Stockholm Syndrome. Scrapper needed nerfs. They shuffled a few damage traits around pointlessly, stripped away all passive sustain, and really flubbed Function Gyro. We're all angry with how these changes flailed about and messed up perfectly good things instead of efficiently dealing with the too-survivable problem.

I would consider Scrapper pretty much working as intended when:
  • Function Gyro gets its health fixed, or better yet becomes a well like every other Gyro, with the same radius and affecting traits.
  • Damage Dampener does something to reduce incoming damage like: "If you have a barrier, the delayed damage is reduced by 50%" or something similar.
  • Adaptive Armor gets a little something, like, increased barriers by 20-25%, up from 15%.
  • Impact Savant gets a little something, like barrier conversion to 20-25%, up from 15%.

Whole heartedly agree with this.

So scrapper gets even more sustain? Umm no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So scrapper gets even more sustain? Umm no.

If you want to be a tanky defensive node holder, an Inventions Prot Holo does everything better at once than Scrapper. We're talking superior survivability, superior damage threat, way better offensive utility through superior CC, and until Function Gyro starts working well, it has better defensive utility through Hard Light Arena's condi clear and protection. Scrapper has gotten beaten with the ugly stick so much that it's just the poster boy for masochism, since prot Holo does everything better, and tools Holo is the premier damage build.

@rdigeri.7935 said:Are you at all aware of what a bad spot scrapper is in since the rework?

Basically the only real sustain going for it is the bulwark gyro, and the hammer defenses.

Scrappers were killable before, they're even more killable now

Game balance not really important to some people if it doesn't personally add enjoyment for them, but yeah, after 3 replies now, if leaving Scrapper be a strictly worse Holo at every role in PvP (even a tank/support) isn't a problem to him, it won't be if we keep replying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"miriforst.1290" said:mods).Honestly i'm not surprised if people are gonna go stockholm syndrome over this.

I dunno if being happy that ArenaNet is lessening nerfs on Scrapper is Stockholm Syndrome. Scrapper needed nerfs. They shuffled a few damage traits around pointlessly, stripped away all passive sustain, and really flubbed Function Gyro. We're all angry with how these changes flailed about and messed up perfectly good things instead of efficiently dealing with the too-survivable problem.

I would consider Scrapper pretty much working as intended when:
  • Function Gyro gets its health fixed, or better yet becomes a well like every other Gyro, with the same radius and affecting traits.
  • Damage Dampener does something to reduce incoming damage like: "If you have a barrier, the delayed damage is reduced by 50%" or something similar.
  • Adaptive Armor gets a little something, like, increased barriers by 20-25%, up from 15%.
  • Impact Savant gets a little something, like barrier conversion to 20-25%, up from 15%.

Whole heartedly agree with this.

So scrapper gets even more sustain? Umm no.

I'd rather have more sustain than none because the damage isn't high enough to make that 15% damage to barrier conversion worthwhile, or even remotely decent. So no matter how you look at it, it's still an upgrade from what we currently have: nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ghos.1326 said:I'd rather have more sustain than none because the damage isn't high enough to make that 15% damage to barrier conversion worthwhile, or even remotely decent. So no matter how you look at it, it's still an upgrade from what we currently have: nothing.

The important thing is that Scrapper gets Function Gyro working for it, and your res utility becomes significant.

I would actually be okay if they just left Damage Dampener and Adaptive Armor as being objectively weak traits, a lot of Scrappers I'm guessing just are ignoring them currently.

If Scrapper was less survivable than Holo could be built, that wouldn't be the end of the world - however, there'd have to be a viable damage build for it to find a place, and that's very difficult, it would require fundamental changes to Scrapper's damage application methods... it's seemingly not going to happen. Scrapper kind of has to be a better tank and defensive utility than Holo is, that's just my best conclusion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chaith.8256 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:I'd rather have more sustain than none because the damage isn't high enough to make that 15% damage to barrier conversion worthwhile, or even remotely decent. So no matter how you look at it, it's still an upgrade from what we currently have: nothing.

The important thing is that Scrapper gets Function Gyro working for it, and your res utility becomes significant.

I would actually be okay if they just left Damage Dampener and Adaptive Armor as being objectively weak traits, a lot of Scrappers I'm guessing just are ignoring them currently.

If Scrapper was less survivable than Holo could be built, that wouldn't be the end of the world - however, there'd have to be a viable damage build for it to find a place, and that's very difficult, it would require fundamental changes to Scrapper's damage application methods... it's seemingly not going to happen. Scrapper kind of has to be a better tank and defensive utility than Holo is, that's just my best conclusion.

It's rather unfortunate when an elite spec that was "supposed" to focus more around pure damage/dueling capability tanks much better than the elite spec that's supposed to be focused on tanking/bruiser style gameplay. #MSGA Make Scrapper Great Again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...