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Nerf condi thief


Bazooka.3590

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In my opinion, adding an icd of around 6-15 seconds (roughly) on immobilise proccing poison via panic strike would be enough to dissuade the constant sword 2 spam while also preserving the strength of the build outside of spamming one ability. This change would also not hurt power s/d too much.

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@Doto.6357 said:In my opinion, adding an icd of around 6-15 seconds (roughly) on immobilise proccing poison via panic strike would be enough to dissuade the constant sword 2 spam while also preserving the strength of the build outside of spamming one ability. This change would also not hurt power s/d too much.

Or adjust the trait to apply the poison specifically on pistol 2 instead of any immob in general.

I feel like that was the goal, adding poison to pistol which is a condi weapon and has spammable immob on skill 2, but they forgot that sword also had a spammable immob so now nobody plays pistol.

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People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

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the 'problem' is that a power weapon set is generating so many condis. There are very few abilities a condi thief uses that have a tell because most of the passives will trigger off conditions that can be generated by multiple abilities. Where most classes have specific abilities you can dodge, thief... well you have to avoid everything.

Imo, this is fine due to thief natural lack of durability. However, the problem is STILL dagger storm. Long duration invulnerability kind of negates the problems of a class whose weakness is related to durability. It also allows condi thief to stay in combat, procing more condis off passives and letting the condi ticks to progress.

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DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

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I didnt realise how powerful the Poison stacks were till the other day from Dead eye, just getting marked alone can take you to 50% HP if you've run out of Condi clenses.I did meet one Deadeye who was able to quickly stack up 16 stacks of poison onto you, with other cover conditions which rapidly kills the oposition player.

I can not stress this enough, condition damage style play makes pvp boring, dull and not fun. If something is not addressed with condition damage's dominance when it comes to cheese, PvP will lose its already dying appeal .

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@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:

  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.

  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.

  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.

  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.

  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades all incoming stacks just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741"

S/D is common but not the only viable build. What you described can be stopped by a single major cleanse. Then, because you know they are there and targeting you, use active defensive skills and, as you mentioned, forcing them to spend initiative on defense themselves.

You can also kite away from the wall they are teleporting behind from. This limits the range of their return and forces them to pick a different target if they want to keep abusing the LoS advantage from Sword 2.

You can also, knowing that they are coming after you, but unable to see you well from behind the wall, lay down traps/large AoE skills because you know they are coming back to you.

It’s not that hard to shut this down compared to many other builds.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

Any aoe condi effect it, try bs through any other thiefs poison field or scourges condi aoe's or ele fire etc etc all can take 75% of a thiefs health. So no it's not complete invulnerability

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

Any aoe condi effect it, try bs through any other thiefs poison field or scourges condi aoe's or ele fire etc etc all can take 75% of a thiefs health. So no it's not complete invulnerability

DS evades all incoming hits, including those generated by AoEs. It will evade scourge's shades and other thief's shortbow 4s. As stated, only a tiny number of effects in the game can effect you while in DS.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite. The burst opening of conditions you outline is in fact generally only effective against persons with limited cleanses. If you are facing a person with sufficient cleanses he cleanses that burst quite readily and then you are crippled until your next burst ready giving that enemy time to recover health. It generally better to space out condition applications in such a match up and not use them all at once.

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

I rest my case.

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

A s/d shrugs off dps from a warrior or do u mean evades it?

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This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.

Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons.

Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.

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@Poledra Val.1490 said:This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.

Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons.

Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.

U basically just described every popular espec and it's most popular build lmao. This is gw2 remember?

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Poledra Val.1490 said:This build is just a gimmick and it clearly carries terrible players to heights in pvp they have never been in before. It should be nerfed of course its literally one of the top 3 easiest things to use in pvp right now and is obviously effective.

Its very counterproductive for a build to carry the player they dont really learn anything bar pressing 2-3 buttons.

Once this build is nerfed you will witness an all mighty exodus of a huge percentage of thieves that will have there favorite toy taken away and will likely quit pvp or just move on to the next busted thing.

U basically just described every popular espec and it's most popular build lmao. This is gw2 remember?

True but the ease of this build to use is honestly new levels of rediculousness.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@saerni.2584 said:People always say “nerf condi thief” and then fail to realize that:
  1. There are multiple condition builds for thief that all have different mechanics and methods. You have to name specific abilities if you want to be understood by the rest of the player base.
  2. Individually, none of those mechanics produces a huge spike of conditions.
  3. Fighting a condi thief is about understanding what combination of abilities the thief has to successfully hit you with for you to be spiked with conditions.
  4. If you don’t use cleanse in your build you aren’t a good baseline for balance against any condition build, regardless of whether it is attached to thief.

Ask a thief to help identify issues with your build, gameplay, or issues with specific thief skills/traits. Plenty of us are glad to help.
  1. He's obviously talking about S/D as its the only viable build.
  2. No, it's a combination of all things deadly arts, lotus training and the occasional combo finisher in shortbow 4.
  3. They have to hit with infiltrator strike from behind a wall. This will immob and apply poison through panic strike, deadly ambition (I think this is the name) venom and lotus training. Throw in a steal while he's immob for some extra condis. This results in 6(?) Different condis and about 12 stacks of poison. They literally just have to hit sword 2, no risk as you can just port back if they dodge.
  4. Nothing, except maybe water Weaver and conversion Holo can outcleanse the application. The key to fighting them is making them use initiative on surviving. Hard sticking on them.> @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    DS is not invulnerability, I don't know why this is stated so often. U are still affected by condi's other than slow. Theres more than enough aoe's around these days that can chew a lot off a thief's small hp pool. Plus it's on 3 sec skill on a long CD unless ofcourse u luck out with improv's rng which ur prob not even running in a condi build.

It's an evade that evades
all incoming stacks
just cleanse before you use it. The only thing that can effect you is tethers (spellbreaker and dragonhunter) and ward effects (staff Ele, staff guard and hammer guard). So about as close to an invuln as it gets.

When I am on my own s/p power thief facing your mentioned s/d condition , I am quite capable of flushing away any conditions applied. That Port REMOVES conditions and coupled with other cleanses condi s/d is going to run out of INI and means to apply his poison via an Immob before I run out of cleanses.

My own shout warrior using shake it off is more then capable of keeping ahead of those condition stacks. That builds weakness is the ability to engage but it hardly concerned over the conditions from an s/d thief. P/d thief is much more effective against him. P/d thief using shadows embrace and trickster can also keep up with the condition adds from the s/d build.

S/d condition is most effective against people that do not trait enough cleanses or that do not kite.

Yeah but running a shout war will render you useless against everything else.

Oh he is not useless at all. He is specced to tank and if you engage at melee will churn out plenty of damage even as he shrugs off your own.

A s/d shrugs off dps from a warrior or do u mean evades it?

No, the warrior I am speaking of will shrug off damage the enemy applies at melee range. In order to fight him the enemy has to kite and use range.Trying to exchange blows at melee they end up dead more often then not.

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