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We need chrono back now!


kraai.7265

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  • We have nothing to do in zergs anymore since last changes.

  • veil: useless, with engis throwing that stupid gyro, plus veil left some counterplay, lasting for 2 seconds and beeing visible by enemies. So not only you killed one of our most important tasks but you also made the whole zerg stealth bombing far easier, and less tactical. Not fun at all.

  • Double gravity well: the first well was almost always a diversion, in order to catch players with the second one after stab was removed, now we have only one, it's not enough!

  • Every other chrono well: useless, too slow, enemies leave before it even proks, the only one that seems good on paper is illusion of life, but now with warclaws insta killing every downed plus all the power creep it's actually impossible to use it properly.

  • Removing ip: first we lost double gravity well, because spawning clones in a large fight is impossible, also chronos aren't tanks, but our skills have low range, so we needed to push like front liners back then in order to land focus pulls and grav wells. Now we lost on demand stability(with chaos traitline), heals (inspiration) and invulnerability (f4) so if our firebrand can't carry us all the way we die before we can even start our cc rotation.

  • Boonshare: we already know you killed this build to push renegade into the meta, it's a shame you never understood that players avoid renegade because of how easy it is to play and how boring it is overall. You swapped a spec that had tons of usefull things plus boonspamming, for one that is strictly designed to boonspam and nothing else, again easy, boring, less tactical. Not fun at all.

  • portals: portal bombing it's impossible in this meta, unless your team heavily outnumbers opposing forces, the only "usefull" thing we can do is to get inside a fortress with a thief, and portal guys inside.

  • Focus pull: the only thing left for us to do, the only unique skill related to our class that no other can do better, and it's not enough to make us usefull in any way.

  • Right now as a main mesmer with 5 years behind me (tried every other spec but never had so much fun as a mesmer) when i go out to wvw, i can only:

  • a- play mirage and go roaming, flipping camps, looking for duels (which is almost impossible since every other player just mounts up run to base, get some friends and come back with +3)

  • b- try to make my single gravity well and focus pull somehow usefull joining a tag, always keeping distance because, since i can't use shatters, im a glass cannon with mid range.

  • c- try to use that meme core support build so every other player yells at me "switch to fb".

  • d- change class, go play pve, uninstall.

  • Either give us back chrono as it was, or rework every other well into something usefull and make us necros lil brothers, or give us more range so we can play as backlines. I would love to at least have ip back on chrono but no f5 so it's like core but with wells.

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WvW lul.

Sorry. But WvW has been a joke for ages and you can see that ANet doesn't much care about it. Necro and FB are still the unspoken kings of AoE spam (both at your allies and the enemies), right? If they can't be bothered to bring down FB in all three modes, and after showing that they have and never had any clue about anything Mesmer EVER (see IP removal, Distortion removal etc.), I wouldn't hold out my hopes for them ever buffing Chrono in any way.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

idk what kind of tempest is that, but they have traits to stabilize and receive defensive bonus when overloading

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No, they need to nerf it moar. Needs to make gravity well damage 50% less and only cc on last pulse cause it too dangerous! Right now if I am in gravity well full duration I take more that 50% of my health in damage. Need big nurf! My glass build should not be taking that much damage because I am special !

! Signed, a master player with much big skills.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@steki.1478 said:but there's easy ways to get around it.

sure if you're auto attacking creatures in pve with scepter. play mes in a zerg before making some asinine statement.

I already mentioned 2 easy solutions. Not to mention that in a zerg your f1-f3 were useless since launch and your f4 requires only one clone. Not to mention that F1-F3 never required you more than 1 clone because you were using them to proc heals/boons from traits, not to actually shatter clones on enemy.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

idk what kind of tempest is that, but they have traits to stabilize and receive defensive bonus when overloading

And both of those are useless in zergs because they are major traits competing with your main support traits. Meanwhile mirage gets superspeed on dodge as a minor trait making its main drawback not really a drawback.

Also the defensive bonus is known as protection which is pretty common boon in zergs.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

I agree about other classes, but i speak for the class i play.Yes you can use clone generation on dodge, with duelist trait line (a line that it's used in mostly duel/roaming builds and offers nothing for zerg fights, also you can use signet of illusions for the passive clone generation, but you forget to prok all of those you have to be in combat, and targeting a player, which is dumb because of how much aoe spam we see.

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@kraai.7265 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

I agree about other classes, but i speak for the class i play.Yes you can use clone generation on dodge, with duelist trait line (a line that it's used in mostly duel/roaming builds and offers nothing for zerg fights, also you can use signet of illusions for the passive clone generation, but you forget to prok all of those you have to be in combat, and targeting a player, which is dumb because of how much aoe spam we see.

It's not like you have any other choices as mesmer considering that every supportive traits got nerfed/removed. DPS chrono was the BiS build for zergs since nerf anyway and dueling is a part of it. Sure you'd rather use extra damage on your crits, but your main role in zergs will always be CC and utility.

You're almost always in combat anyway and both GS and focus have high range to get you there with ease. Mirror images and decoy are also options and you dont even need clones to stay alive for long, you use them mainly for gravity+F4. The rest of the shatters are useless anyway and always were. The worst part of the chrono change is that they didnt even change shatter functionality.

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Clones have been dead in zerg fights for quite a long time now, and that's kinda bad. It's a core mechanic of the mesmers, yet it is quite unusable during zerg fights.What makes matters worse is, that you basically have to take portal and / or veil (and if you take portal, you better also add stealth to your repertoire) in order to be of optimal use for the zerg. These choices very much limit your options in terms of survivability and utility.Add on top of that the new thief portal and the previously existing necroportal, the mesmers role has been limited down further and further. (I know the mesmer portal is superior, when it comes to transporting numbers over distance to each of the alternatives)

The whole profession, not just chrono, badly needs a redesign for WvW, ideally one that does not lock one or more of its specs into the "it's a roaming spec" or "it's a zerging spec" corner. The whole point of GW2 was to offer its players choice, not lock them into a specific role. If locking certain specs (no matter which traits and traitlines are picked), sometimes whole professions, into certain roles, we just end up with a different implementation of the holy trinity system. The very thing we wanted to do away with.(And it's not only mesmers facing that problem.)

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@steki.1478 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

I agree about other classes, but i speak for the class i play.Yes you can use clone generation on dodge, with duelist trait line (a line that it's used in mostly duel/roaming builds and offers nothing for zerg fights, also you can use signet of illusions for the passive clone generation, but you forget to prok all of those you have to be in combat, and targeting a player, which is dumb because of how much aoe spam we see.

It's not like you have any other choices as mesmer considering that every supportive traits got nerfed/removed. DPS chrono was the BiS build for zergs since nerf anyway and dueling is a part of it. Sure you'd rather use extra damage on your crits, but your main role in zergs will always be CC and utility.

You're almost always in combat anyway and both GS and focus have high range to get you there with ease. Mirror images and decoy are also options and you dont even need clones to stay alive for long, you use them mainly for gravity+F4. The rest of the shatters are useless anyway and always were. The worst part of the chrono change is that they didnt even change shatter functionality.

the worst thing is I didn't even play dps chrono, i used an interruption build, staff/scepter focus, or sword pisto/scepter focus, chaos, domination and chrono, my role was to only land heavy cc and cleave.

GS auto attack spam is useless, rangers would outshine that sort of build anyway, and that's the worst class today to bring to a zerg fight.

And about shatters, maybe shatters alone are useless, but with chaos and inspiration it was game changing, having the ability to clean condis, give stability and a small heal made me not so dependant on firebrands, so i could get in and out of combat alone, land my cc rotations and survive.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:I think illusions should just get 3s of invuln as base line. building up clones for shatters has always been needlessly difficult, and no other class has so much trouble using their class mechanic.

There's a trait that generates clone on dodge as well as utility skill that generates clones passively.

Tempest has to wait for 5 seconds to get to use its mechanic which can be interrupted and puts whole attunement on cd - cant trait the waiting cooldown nor speed up the overload channel. Druid needs to heal allies to get access to its mechanic - no traits to make it easier to charge. Scrapper one requires downed people and it can still be interrupted with ease - no traits to make it more reliable.

More classes need to have higher limits on their new mechanics. Sure chrono change sucks, but there's easy ways to get around it.

idk what kind of tempest is that, but they have traits to stabilize and receive defensive bonus when overloading

The stability trait (if you take it, because it's inferior to other traits) gives one stack of stab which is easily thwarted by even one opponent. There is no defensive bonus for overloading. There are boons that can be applied, such as protection when an aura is granted -- keep in mind no aura is granted until the end of the overload.

idk what kind of experience you have with tempest, but it seems not much.

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It isn't that Chronos don't have any decent zerg support. They've got Feedback, Portal, Temporal Curtain, Null Field, Illusion of Life, Mantra of Concentration, Mantra of Distraction, Time Warp, Gravity Well, Mass Invisibility, and Well of Precognition. But, the support doesn't tell the whole story. There's two things that are really lacking, which is why i'm reluctant to take mesmer into WvW.

(1): No good ranged damage options. Other than the occasional Phantasmal Berserker and Mirror Blade, the mesmer doesn't have much to offer on offense. The Greatsword auto is terrible, mesmers have poor AoE, and those illusions die really fast in a zerg.(2): Bringing all of the support skills and traits is a terrible build that's likely to get you killed. Mesmers live off of Blink and Decoy. This leaves mesmers with one free utility slot to take all of their unique support skills. While the mesmer can, in theory, support a zerg in a lot of ways, in practice they get maybe one or two niche utilities and that is the end of it. Mesmers can do anything, just not a lot of it.

Chrono is hit especially hard now that they don't have Self-Shattering and good shatters anymore. All of the mesmer specs work well for solo and small scale, but in large scale it don't translate up well.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It isn't that Chronos don't have any decent zerg support. They've got Feedback, Portal, Temporal Curtain, Null Field, Illusion of Life, Mantra of Concentration, Mantra of Distraction, Time Warp, Gravity Well, Mass Invisibility, and Well of Precognition. But, the support doesn't tell the whole story. There's two things that are really lacking, which is why i'm reluctant to take mesmer into WvW.

feedback: guardians can do this with shield 5, less cd, plus they bring so much more utilty and support to the table.

portal: portal bombs are impossible in this meta, we can only get people up a castle/tower wall, anyway it's still somewhat usefull.

temporal curtain: the only thing usefull and unique, but with 25 secs of cd, and beeing so predictable its meh.

illusion of life: talked about this one already, good on papers but it's impossible to use properly, way too much casting time, between the cleave and powercreep it's really hard to land, not mentioning warclaws insta killing downed too.

mantras: the stability and condi cleanse mantra ar ok, but guards do that much better and far easier and they bring more to the table, mantra of distraction works pretty well in big fights if necros use corruption to take away stability.

mass invisibility: talked about this one earlier too, its worthless, not enough stealth, only affects 10 players, and scrappers are way better for this one, we lost veil too since those stupid scrapper changes.

well of precognition: this one its not that bad but still outshined by guardian's weapon skills.

(1): No good ranged damage options. Other than the occasional Phantasmal Berserker and Mirror Blade, the mesmer doesn't have much to offer on offense. The Greatsword auto is terrible, mesmers have poor AoE, and those illusions die really fast in a zerg.(2): Bringing all of the support skills and traits is a terrible build that's likely to get you killed. Mesmers live off of Blink and Decoy. This leaves mesmers with one free utility slot to take all of their unique support skills. While the mesmer can, in theory, support a zerg in a lot of ways, in practice they get maybe one or two niche utilities and that is the end of it. Mesmers can do anything, just not a lot of it.

1- I never use greatsword in zerg fights and never will, even a ranger can do it better and thats the least wanted spec for a zerg fight, not enough aoe even with mirage, plus trying to burst someone in the middle of a fight its pointless.2- you hit the nail here, we have a lot we can offer, but its so outshined by other specs it's worthless, so we can only do focus pulls, and get players inside a keep, thats it. I don't use decoy beacause even while in stealth you can get downed by a few aoe attacks or a rev burst. But blink is mandatory, because of the lack of range we got right now.

Chrono is hit especially hard now that they don't have Self-Shattering and good shatters anymore. All of the mesmer specs work well for solo and small scale, but in large scale it don't translate up well.

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@kraai.7265 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It isn't that Chronos don't have any decent zerg support. They've got Feedback, Portal, Temporal Curtain, Null Field, Illusion of Life, Mantra of Concentration, Mantra of Distraction, Time Warp, Gravity Well, Mass Invisibility, and Well of Precognition. But, the support doesn't tell the whole story. There's two things that are really lacking, which is why i'm reluctant to take mesmer into WvW.

feedback: guardians can do this with shield 5, less cd, plus they bring so much more utilty and support to the table.

portal: portal bombs are impossible in this meta, we can only get people up a castle/tower wall, anyway it's still somewhat usefull.

temporal curtain: the only thing usefull and unique, but with 25 secs of cd, and beeing so predictable its meh.

illusion of life: talked about this one already, good on papers but it's impossible to use properly, way too much casting time, between the cleave and powercreep it's really hard to land, not mentioning warclaws insta killing downed too.

mantras: the stability and condi cleanse mantra ar ok, but guards do that much better and far easier and they bring more to the table, mantra of distraction works pretty well in big fights if necros use corruption to take away stability.

mass invisibility: talked about this one earlier too, its worthless, not enough stealth, only affects 10 players, and scrappers are way better for this one, we lost veil too since those stupid scrapper changes.

well of precognition: this one its not that bad but still outshined by guardian's weapon skills.

(1): No good ranged damage options. Other than the occasional Phantasmal Berserker and Mirror Blade, the mesmer doesn't have much to offer on offense. The Greatsword auto is terrible, mesmers have poor AoE, and those illusions die really fast in a zerg.(2): Bringing all of the support skills and traits is a terrible build that's likely to get you killed. Mesmers live off of Blink and Decoy. This leaves mesmers with one free utility slot to take all of their unique support skills. While the mesmer can, in theory, support a zerg in a lot of ways, in practice they get maybe one or two niche utilities and that is the end of it. Mesmers can do anything, just not a lot of it.

1- I never use greatsword in zerg fights and never will, even a ranger can do it better and thats the least wanted spec for a zerg fight, not enough aoe even with mirage, plus trying to burst someone in the middle of a fight its pointless.2- you hit the nail here, we have a lot we can offer, but its so outshined by other specs it's worthless, so we can only do focus pulls, and get players inside a keep, thats it. I don't use decoy beacause even while in stealth you can get downed by a few aoe attacks or a rev burst. But blink is mandatory, because of the lack of range we got right now.

Chrono is hit especially hard now that they don't have Self-Shattering and good shatters anymore. All of the mesmer specs work well for solo and small scale, but in large scale it don't translate up well.

When it comes to zerg support, you don't need to be the best at it. Those utilities are still there, and they're still helpful even if similar roles can also be fulfilled by another class.

The biggest issue that I can see is that it is ONLY utilities that offer any sort of zerg support. The mesmer weapon skills are all about blocks and illusions, with maybe one CC skill thrown in. They're great for dueling, but they don't have any big movers in there. The shatters, again, focus on a single player and either do damage, CC, or block (diversion) This leaves a big hole in the mesmer philosophy: the tricky class has no trickery in their weapons. The mesmer needs to use their utilities for all of their weird effects, including mobility and stealth.

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