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Astral weapons LUDICROUSLY out of cost balance


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@Ashen.2907 said:

@Seera.5916 said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Should be pretty easy. It is a cosmetic option. The higher price is because it is a different cosmetic option.

Well, Sir - you see, them French Fries, they're narrow and oblong, that's why they're 2,50 per serving. The country wedges, though, see how lush they look, eh? That shape, and the peel is still on! I'm sure you can see why they're not sold below 100 ... Sir ... Sir ... where are you going?

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@HtFde.3856 said:

@Seera.5916 said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Could be any number of reasons they set things the way they are. I don't know which one it is because I'm not the one who set them but a couple of possible ones:

  1. To control time it takes for players to get the final product. Maybe Dragonblood was meant for short term and Astral was meant for a medium term.
  2. Some component part of that item is cheaper than ANet wants and ANet needs a sink - AKA something is at vendor price on the TP and there's a lot of it.
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@HtFde.3856 said:

@Seera.5916 said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Should be pretty easy. It is a cosmetic option. The higher price is because it is a different cosmetic option.

Well, Sir - you see, them French Fries, they're narrow and oblong, that's why they're 2,50 per serving. The country wedges, though, see how lush they look, eh? That shape, and the peel is still on! I'm sure you can see why they're not sold below 100 ... Sir ... Sir ... where are you going?

Country potatoes are pretty awesome. Sell really well at the restaurants around here. Usually more expensive than fries too. Then again they are not a cosmetic variant of fries. They cook differently.

When pricing different cosmetic luxury items pricing is based on what the seller thinks the prospective buyer will pay. This is pre-economics 101. Like gradeschool stuff really. Apparently ANet thinks that one option is more desirable than the other here.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Seera.5916" said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Should be pretty easy. It is a cosmetic option. The higher price is because it is a different cosmetic option.

Well, Sir - you see, them French Fries, they're narrow and oblong, that's why they're 2,50 per serving. The country wedges, though, see how lush they look, eh? That shape, and the peel is still on! I'm sure you can see why they're not sold below 100 ... Sir ... Sir ... where are you going?

Country potatoes are pretty awesome. Sell really well at the restaurants around here. Usually more expensive than fries too. Then again they are not a cosmetic variant of fries. They cook differently.

When pricing different cosmetic luxury items pricing is based on what the seller thinks the prospective buyer will pay. This is pre-economics 101. Like gradeschool stuff really. Apparently ANet thinks that one option is more desirable than the other here.

Final comment from me: I do not think that ANet "thought" anything here but had another meltdown they were too lazy to fix. Like the debacle with the Sigil of Nullification and the whole cloth supply situation through the first 2+ years where people had to mystic forge karma bought armor to get a salvageable item because the game just did not supply the amount of lower tier needed for ascended armor and the karma armor was not directly salvageable. Poor design, lousy fixing times. No other "reason" but something they messed up. They do great stuff - but often they make something broken and take their sweet time to fix it, if they fix it at all. And in this occasion I am sure they had a different drop quota back then, adjusted that when they started to nerf Istan but never came around to adjusting the requirement for the Astral weapons. I recall swimming in quartz AND Kralk when Istan was fresh.

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@HtFde.3856 said:

@"Seera.5916" said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Should be pretty easy. It is a cosmetic option. The higher price is because it is a different cosmetic option.

Well, Sir - you see, them French Fries, they're narrow and oblong, that's why they're 2,50 per serving. The country wedges, though, see how lush they look, eh? That shape, and the peel is still on! I'm sure you can see why they're not sold below 100 ... Sir ... Sir ... where are you going?

Country potatoes are pretty awesome. Sell really well at the restaurants around here. Usually more expensive than fries too. Then again they are not a cosmetic variant of fries. They cook differently.

When pricing different cosmetic luxury items pricing is based on what the seller thinks the prospective buyer will pay. This is pre-economics 101. Like gradeschool stuff really. Apparently ANet thinks that one option is more desirable than the other here.

Final comment from me: I do not think that ANet "thought" anything here but had another meltdown they were too lazy to fix. Like the debacle with the Sigil of Nullification and the whole cloth supply situation through the first 2+ years where people had to mystic forge karma bought armor to get a salvageable item because the game just did not supply the amount of lower tier needed for ascended armor and the karma armor was not directly salvageable. Poor design, lousy fixing times. No other "reason" but something they messed up. They do great stuff - but often they make something broken and take their sweet time to fix it, if they fix it at all. And in this occasion I am sure they had a different drop quota back then, adjusted that when they started to nerf Istan but never came around to adjusting the requirement for the Astral weapons. I recall swimming in quartz AND Kralk when Istan was fresh.

I am sure that you are right. They are just lazy. They sit around avoiding work all day while drinking soy milk lattes and eating country potatoes. Luckily the software gnomes come in every night to do all of the work.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Seera.5916" said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Should be pretty easy. It is a cosmetic option. The higher price is because it is a different cosmetic option.

Well, Sir - you see, them French Fries, they're narrow and oblong, that's why they're 2,50 per serving. The country wedges, though, see how lush they look, eh? That shape, and the peel is still on! I'm sure you can see why they're not sold below 100 ... Sir ... Sir ... where are you going?

Country potatoes are pretty awesome. Sell really well at the restaurants around here. Usually more expensive than fries too. Then again they are not a cosmetic variant of fries. They cook differently.

When pricing different cosmetic luxury items pricing is based on what the seller thinks the prospective buyer will pay. This is pre-economics 101. Like gradeschool stuff really. Apparently ANet thinks that one option is more desirable than the other here.

Final comment from me: I do not think that ANet "thought" anything here but had another meltdown they were too lazy to fix. Like the debacle with the Sigil of Nullification and the whole cloth supply situation through the first 2+ years where people had to mystic forge karma bought armor to get a salvageable item because the game just did not supply the amount of lower tier needed for ascended armor and the karma armor was not directly salvageable. Poor design, lousy fixing times. No other "reason" but something they messed up. They do great stuff - but often they make something broken and take their sweet time to fix it, if they fix it at all. And in this occasion I am sure they had a different drop quota back then, adjusted that when they started to nerf Istan but never came around to adjusting the requirement for the Astral weapons. I recall swimming in quartz AND Kralk when Istan was fresh.

I am sure that you are right. They are just lazy. They sit around avoiding work all day while drinking soy milk lattes and eating country potatoes. Luckily the software gnomes come in every night to do all of the work.

to be honest, despite the snark alot of you in the thread gave the OP, i do agree with him at least in part(his wording -is- awful here). They did nerf the drop rate of the mats, and didnt change anything at all in regards to how much they need. This isnt the first time theyve made a mistake or forgotten about elements in their own game. With season 5 starting soon i feel these zones are going to be even emptier than they already are, and istan at least when im able to play is a barren wasteland.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Seera.5916" said:As for fish & chips vs fish & country potatoes, assuming same fish, I'd be like I wonder just how good those country potatoes are (aka high demand) or what they use that is so rare (low supply). Or if it was a typo. And then order fish & chips. Not complain to the restaurant about it beyond asking if it was a typo or asking why (just so I know). Businesses don't have that kind of price discrepancy for no reason.

I'm eagerly awaiting your explanation what the special properties of the Astral Weapons is that sets them apart from the Dragonblood ones, so that the much, much higher price is justified. As you say - there should be a reason ... I can't find it. Help me, please. :)

Should be pretty easy. It is a cosmetic option. The higher price is because it is a different cosmetic option.

Well, Sir - you see, them French Fries, they're narrow and oblong, that's why they're 2,50 per serving. The country wedges, though, see how lush they look, eh? That shape, and the peel is still on! I'm sure you can see why they're not sold below 100 ... Sir ... Sir ... where are you going?

Country potatoes are pretty awesome. Sell really well at the restaurants around here. Usually more expensive than fries too. Then again they are not a cosmetic variant of fries. They cook differently.

When pricing different cosmetic luxury items pricing is based on what the seller thinks the prospective buyer will pay. This is pre-economics 101. Like gradeschool stuff really. Apparently ANet thinks that one option is more desirable than the other here.

Final comment from me: I do not think that ANet "thought" anything here but had another meltdown they were too lazy to fix. Like the debacle with the Sigil of Nullification and the whole cloth supply situation through the first 2+ years where people had to mystic forge karma bought armor to get a salvageable item because the game just did not supply the amount of lower tier needed for ascended armor and the karma armor was not directly salvageable. Poor design, lousy fixing times. No other "reason" but something they messed up. They do great stuff - but often they make something broken and take their sweet time to fix it, if they fix it at all. And in this occasion I am sure they had a different drop quota back then, adjusted that when they started to nerf Istan but never came around to adjusting the requirement for the Astral weapons. I recall swimming in quartz AND Kralk when Istan was fresh.

I am sure that you are right. They are just lazy. They sit around avoiding work all day while drinking soy milk lattes and eating country potatoes. Luckily the software gnomes come in every night to do all of the work.

to be honest, despite the snark alot of you in the thread gave the OP, i do agree with him at least in part(his wording -is- awful here). They did nerf the drop rate of the mats, and didnt change anything at all in regards to how much they need. This isnt the first time theyve made a mistake or forgotten about elements in their own game. With season 5 starting soon i feel these zones are going to be even emptier than they already are, and istan at least when im able to play is a barren wasteland.

Any time a merchant sets pricing based on perceived desirability there is a very good chance that errors will be made. Pricing in situations such as this is as much an art as a science. If the number of people pursuing the items does not meet company expectations, I hope ANet is willing to admit their error and make corrections.

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  • 4 weeks later...

if some1 can't afford to play 2 hrs a day then why bother playing at allgreat pointas someone who can only get 1-2 hours a day at most, trying to get the cool stuff in this game has become basically a choreI should just give up the game all together. Who's with me?

let's be honest here, there's clearly a retention problem in this game. Setting the barriers up too high means a lot of people are just going to hard pass on the contentSo in the end you're making content just for the people who do have 3-4 hours to play every day. At this point you're basically excluding everyone else

people with less time will go for story content because it's the only thing that will keep them invested and that they can do and people who play more will clear all the content and move on anyways...

seriously, this game makes it so frustrating to keep playing it

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@ShadowHand.7063 said:

if some1 can't afford to play 2 hrs a day then why bother playing at allgreat pointas someone who can only get 1-2 hours a day at most, trying to get the cool stuff in this game has become basically a choreI should just give up the game all together. Who's with me?

let's be honest here, there's clearly a retention problem in this game. Setting the barriers up too high means a lot of people are just going to hard pass on the contentSo in the end you're making content just for the people who do have 3-4 hours to play every day. At this point you're basically excluding everyone else

people with less time will go for story content because it's the only thing that will keep them invested and that they can do and people who play more will clear all the content and move on anyways...

seriously, this game makes it so frustrating to keep playing it

And if the rewards were made to be easily obtainable by those with 1-2 hours a day then everyone else would quickly have nothing else to strive for. Fortunately there are existing rewards for those players.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why do you need them anyway? They look kitten and aren't even ascended.Unlocking (any) six of the astral skins is part of the precursor collection for the legendary trinket Vision.

Ah kitten, that's what a friend meant in-game... I have to do that as well. Yeah it sucks then.

Well its just being consistent with the other crafting tasks for Vision, needing tier1, such as the dragonsblood weapons or the elegy armor and i think that mist shard armor from dragonfall as well.

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As someone who just finished crafting both Astral and Stellar without TP the weekend before last week, it does take some effort, more than the entire Dragonblood set, I would say only slightly more, especially now, not as bad a before since the rose quartz drop increase


here were some questions a guy asked me last weekend when I was back at Istan replenishing my material storage with kralk ore and powders
Q. How long did it took?

A. A bit over a month to gather all the materials.


Q. How much materials do you gather a day?

A. Depends whether it's a weekday or weekend, but I just do it with a single character.

  • On weekdays, I just collect all 35 Sunspear Caches and 3 hearts, and gather around 4-5 meteorites.

  • On weekends I would gather meteorites until hitting the daily cap (because there are more met mining players around, so more potential for all mets to be fully marked), which is around 30 meteorites (per account), around 8 hours in total; If every meteorite site is fully marked, and the big surface meteorites are done properly, I can craft enough kralk ingot to make 5-7 weapons over the weekend; 1200-1600 kralk ore and rose Quartz powder per day (grinded up everything).


Q. How did you manage to gather so much?

A. Make sure you purchase Skill 3 Extraction Beam, and Skill 5 Impact Site Marker from Scholar Fatima; you can ignore Skill 4, it's useless.

  • Skill 3 will passively reduces your chance to get dragonite ores, and its active use is on the big surface meteorites, the longer players spams Skill 3 on it before it gets destroyed, the better the rewards you get; common strategy is keep spamming 3 until there is 30 seconds left, then destroyed the meteorite. (there will be trolls who would run in and destroy it immediately, had them added to my blacklist)

  • Skill 5 is the most critical one, for 1 it will display location of the impact site on mini map to other players, and 2, it decreases the chance to get dragonite ore and it increases the chance to get Rose Quartz and Powdera Fully marked impact site is pretty much 100% you will not get any dragonite ore; because big surface meteorite reward works differently so you will still get dragonite ores from it.

  • The only exception when you would start mining without a fully marked siteIs when there is less than 1min 30sec left, 5min countdown from the time when Scholar Fatima announces itIf you try to wait it out, you may not have time to gather all the brandstones from the meteorite.


Q. Can this process be done faster?

A. Yes, if you park multiple toons across the sites.But do be wary, each site only lasts 5min, and you want to start mining after the site is fully marked to yield maximum rewards.If it took a long time for the site to be fully marked, or your load time is just slow, then you may not have enough time to switch toon to full mine a second time.


Q. This entire process sounds boringA. Yeah... it is... but because there is a minimum 15 minutes between each meteorite (count from the time when Scholar Fatima announces it), you have around 10min down time after you have finished mining a site, during this time I would go open up the Sunspear Caches, do hearts, dailies, or switch to another toon to do other stuffs.


Hope this helps for others out there also aiming for getting Astral and Stellar sets done

End note: I had updated the wiki page with some additional details.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brandstone_Multitool

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:And if the rewards were made to be easily obtainable by those with 1-2 hours a day then everyone else would quickly have nothing else to strive for. Fortunately there are existing rewards for those players.

woosh?also, not all rewards. I'm not going to be finishing all the astral, stellar and dragonblood weapons, 100% sure.But maybe vision ought to be a little more accessible, don't you think? it's not like making the legi is cheap

the kralk ore doesnt even bother me that much, although I think needing to do 2 rewards tracks per weapon is a bit much, just in terms of kralketite. But the rose quartz is going to be a nightmare...you need 500/weapon and at current price that's almost 20g per weapon...which at 6 weapons is about twice as much gold as I have right now...

plus just spent around 1.5h in istan... managed to farm 1 meteor and only because I waited it out in the astralarium.managed to get there too late for a couple more. Not fun

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@ShadowHand.7063 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And if the rewards were made to be easily obtainable by those with 1-2 hours a day then everyone else would quickly have nothing else to strive for. Fortunately there are existing rewards for those players.

woosh?also, not all rewards. I'm not going to be finishing all the astral, stellar and dragonblood weapons, 100% sure.But maybe vision ought to be a little more accessible, don't you think? it's not like making the legi is cheap

the kralk ore doesnt even bother me that much, although I think needing to do 2 rewards tracks per weapon is a bit much, just in terms of kralketite. But the rose quartz is going to be a nightmare...you need 500/weapon and at current price that's almost 20g per weapon...which at 6 weapons is about twice as much gold as I have right now...

plus just spent around 1.5h in istan... managed to farm 1 meteor and only because I waited it out in the astralarium.managed to get there too late for a couple more. Not fun

It’s an optional reward and possessing it has no impact on the game. Not all rewards have to cater to those with low play times. Legendaries have been known to be quite grindy.

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@ShadowHand.7063 said:the kralk ore doesnt even bother me that much, although I think needing to do 2 rewards tracks per weapon is a bit much, just in terms of kralketite. But the rose quartz is going to be a nightmare...I on the other hand have more rose quartz than I can even store (despite maxed material storage), but am always short on kralkatite. Funny how different playstyles can drastically change the perspective, isn't it?

P.S.: If rose quartz is what you are missing, find a buddy with the home instance node and make it a habit to harvest that every day.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And if the rewards were made to be easily obtainable by those with 1-2 hours a day then everyone else would quickly have nothing else to strive for. Fortunately there are existing rewards for those players.

woosh?also, not all rewards. I'm not going to be finishing all the astral, stellar and dragonblood weapons, 100% sure.But maybe vision ought to be a little more accessible, don't you think? it's not like making the legi is cheap

the kralk ore doesnt even bother me that much, although I think needing to do 2 rewards tracks per weapon is a bit much, just in terms of kralketite. But the rose quartz is going to be a nightmare...you need 500/weapon and at current price that's almost 20g per weapon...which at 6 weapons is about twice as much gold as I have right now...

plus just spent around 1.5h in istan... managed to farm 1 meteor and only because I waited it out in the astralarium.managed to get there too late for a couple more. Not fun

It’s an optional reward and possessing it has no impact on the game. Not all rewards have to cater to those with low play times. Legendaries have been known to be quite grindy.

the entire game is optional, what does that even mean? The point is precisely that not only is getting the legi very grindy but the barrier to get the precursor is very high too.

Do you think if players are rewarded you are catering to people with low play times? Do you think the game is better for forcing people to take more time to get things done? Don't you understand that it's artificially padding the game instead of creating meaningful content that people will want to replay? And that you're diminishing the enjoyment you get out of actually playing the game to artificially extend the length of it.

The astral weapons could be their own reward, they didn't need to also work as a gate for Vision. It could maybe even be 3 weapons or one.They could also maybe be dropped from reward tracks or traded.

The main take away is that this is not innocent and this type of thing really makes me hate the game sometimes.

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@ShadowHand.7063 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And if the rewards were made to be easily obtainable by those with 1-2 hours a day then everyone else would quickly have nothing else to strive for. Fortunately there are existing rewards for those players.

woosh?also, not all rewards. I'm not going to be finishing all the astral, stellar and dragonblood weapons, 100% sure.But maybe vision ought to be a little more accessible, don't you think? it's not like making the legi is cheap

the kralk ore doesnt even bother me that much, although I think needing to do 2 rewards tracks per weapon is a bit much, just in terms of kralketite. But the rose quartz is going to be a nightmare...you need 500/weapon and at current price that's almost 20g per weapon...which at 6 weapons is about twice as much gold as I have right now...

plus just spent around 1.5h in istan... managed to farm 1 meteor and only because I waited it out in the astralarium.managed to get there too late for a couple more. Not fun

It’s an optional reward and possessing it has no impact on the game. Not all rewards have to cater to those with low play times. Legendaries have been known to be quite grindy.

the entire game is optional, what does that even mean? The point is precisely that not only is getting the legi very grindy but the barrier to get the precursor is very high too.

Yes, the entire game is optional. Still doesn’t change the fact that this collection is optional as well.

Do you think if players are rewarded you are catering to people with low play times? Do you think the game is better for forcing people to take more time to get things done? Don't you understand that it's artificially padding the game instead of creating meaningful content that people will want to replay? And that you're diminishing the enjoyment you get out of actually playing the game to artificially extend the length of it.

This is all for a luxury item. Don’t conflate this as being all rewards.

The astral weapons could be their own reward, they didn't need to also work as a gate for Vision. It could maybe even be 3 weapons or one.

Maybe or maybe not. You crafted those weapon either to be a completionist or if you wanted the skins. And most recently six of them for a legendary trinket collection. The cost of which is something like 80G or so for that part.

They could also maybe be dropped from reward tracks or traded.

Anet’s intent was to get players to play the map. You know, something that people complain about often about core maps being “dead”.

The main take away is that this is not innocent and this type of thing really makes me hate the game sometimes.

I’m not sure how “innocent” or not is even applicable here. It’s for a luxury item which is a legendary. Legendaries tend to have grind. Just because you don’t like this particular part doesn’t mean that the grind is “not innocent”.

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