Nobody Discussing the Announced Potential Future Balance Changes?

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I dont really have much to say about CoR, but the Gaze of Darkness change seems a bit excessive. I mean if the change goes through, it will be a nice addition, but 600 radius is quite large. To land the reveal now requires fairly smart use of it, and 600 just makes it more mindless. The skill is already quite good as is.

There was no reason to risk the use, reveals were often landed as you knew where the person would have landed after an evade/leap or you used an after cast that indicates/puts you where the person was.

This range now gives an incentive to actually use it for the reveal around say a deadeye that's been perma stealthing for 2 minutes. Most of the time, you can't land the reveal even if you know where they are because the radius is so small and you have no time to reach where they are.

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Hammer is trash weapon tbh. Face reality, its just used to spam CoR. Take it away and you are left with.. what?

Anet simply cant balance slow weapons anyway cuz they refuse to back them up with proper damage to boot. Reaper gs is perfect example of it. Given how slow that weapon is it should be doing at least 70% more damage rn.

You're generous, Reaper damage as I started to play it recently is quite high. Being able to time guaranteed critical 7k Gravedigger's per hit after some kitting and the possibility to spam given I planned my shot at someone's sustain. It's deadly as hell.

CoR as I would agree is trash in scenario's that aren't huge maps, but Phase Smash if you use like Full Counter or a Parry provides good sustain and some nasty damage if using Sigil of Intelligence, almost equal to deathstrike. Drop The Hammer is more like a niche that enjoys Quickness better, it's quite satisfying to time right IMO.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:I just hope they didn't forget about Shield because since it got Condi cleanse they called it a day.

Eh, I know I already shared my thoughts on that to you but Shield is in a pretty decent spot right now other than the clunky 4th skill.

7k gravedigger is low dmg. I literally got one shot from a backstab thief the other day at 20k hp and 2600armor witohut warning, nothing. Or 5k autos from gs soulbeast despite 3,7k armor. You have stuff like rapid fire or arc divider without going into details about all the stuff that hits as ahrd/harder with lower casttime. Given how long it takes to cast gravedigger that thing should be capable of hitting 20k with 0 might

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Because in pve it is out of questions there you will use 99.9% of the time other weapons, thanks to low damage per second. And pvp well it can work here but i doubt it. Long telegraphed attacks arent that good here.

The problem is this change just makes Hammer worse in PvE and PvP (though the might and impossible odds quickness nerfs already killed the weapon there). When you do want to use it in PvE you need the strong 3rd strike to kill mobs quickly since the damage on the hammer is low due to long cast times. When in melee you’re not going to be using hammer much anyway so an increase in melee range damage doesn’t help much. The same reasoning applies to pvp.

They could just reduce the damage of the 3rd strike in WvW to match the damage of the 2nd strike, but instead they unnecessarily change how the entire skill works which results in a net nerf for all modes, two of which it’s already vastly underperforming in

[Thornwolf.9721]

Seems if something preforms well on rev its subject to being terminated, I kinda feel as a Rev main that the dev team hates us.

[Shao.7236]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I dont really have much to say about CoR, but the Gaze of Darkness change seems a bit excessive. I mean if the change goes through, it will be a nice addition, but 600 radius is quite large. To land the reveal now requires fairly smart use of it, and 600 just makes it more mindless. The skill is already quite good as is.

There was no reason to risk the use, reveals were often landed as you knew where the person would have landed after an evade/leap or you used an after cast that indicates/puts you where the person was.

This range now gives an incentive to actually use it for the reveal around say a deadeye that's been perma stealthing for 2 minutes. Most of the time, you can't land the reveal even if you know where they are because the radius is so small and you have no time to reach where they are.

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Hammer is trash weapon tbh. Face reality, its just used to spam CoR. Take it away and you are left with.. what?

Anet simply cant balance slow weapons anyway cuz they refuse to back them up with proper damage to boot. Reaper gs is perfect example of it. Given how slow that weapon is it should be doing at least 70% more damage rn.

You're generous, Reaper damage as I started to play it recently is quite high. Being able to time guaranteed critical 7k Gravedigger's per hit after some kitting and the possibility to spam given I planned my shot at someone's sustain. It's deadly as hell.

CoR as I would agree is trash in scenario's that aren't huge maps, but Phase Smash if you use like Full Counter or a Parry provides good sustain and some nasty damage if using Sigil of Intelligence, almost equal to deathstrike. Drop The Hammer is more like a niche that enjoys Quickness better, it's quite satisfying to time right IMO.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:I just hope they didn't forget about Shield because since it got Condi cleanse they called it a day.

Eh, I know I already shared my thoughts on that to you but Shield is in a pretty decent spot right now other than the clunky 4th skill.

7k gravedigger is low dmg. I literally got one shot from a backstab thief the other day at 20k hp and 2600armor witohut warning, nothing. Or 5k autos from gs soulbeast despite 3,7k armor. You have stuff like rapid fire or arc divider without going into details about all the stuff that hits as ahrd/harder with lower casttime. Given how long it takes to cast gravedigger that thing should be capable of hitting 20k with 0 might

Never got backstabbed for 20k in PvP, 15k at best. Guessing WvW, will always be broken no matter how hard the devs try. That 7k was on Marauder's without much of any traits to increase damage. So I can imagine that 15k Gravedigger is more than likely possible AND spammable.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Seems if something preforms well on rev its subject to being terminated, I kinda feel as a Rev main that the dev team hates us.

With the recent changes, I wouldn't think so. Care to say why?

[Virdo.1540]

They are just doing dumb things to let us play other classes ,cuz herald is no longer fun to play and wont even be taken into zerg fights anymore. like in all other gamemodes

[Infusion.7149]

I wish they would just remove the third tier damage from CoR. Nerfing this way (flat damage equal to second tier damage) is a buff to unskilled revenants actually. Well played revenants in WvW will try to get maximum range to get max damage; the change to a flat damage number will make it spammed more or less (see scourges).Heralds work best with spellbreakers and weavers and not condi scourges, because of 10-man fury.

[Street Peddler.2638]

Just adding the AoE indicator is enough i think. That much damage while being invisible during large fights is just stupid especially when it hits you for 12k.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:lol, CoR should die a lonely death. top monkey skill.

Game is built arround top monkey skills.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:lol, CoR should die a lonely death. top monkey skill.

Game is built arround top monkey skills.

yeah but this is the monkey king we're talking about here.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:lol, CoR should die a lonely death. top monkey skill.

Game is built arround top monkey skills.

yeah but this is the monkey king we're talking about here.

Yah, big damage culled and hiden due how anet is enforcing so much aie and visual clutter...

CoR brokenness not entirely related to damage, on small scale is quite easy to see it and evade it, rev autos if there’s lots of stuff to render u won’t even know what is coming towards u and dodge or go for cover...

Rev hammer is broken cause game visual works awfully reaching and rendering on the clients.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I dont really have much to say about CoR, but the Gaze of Darkness change seems a bit excessive. I mean if the change goes through, it will be a nice addition, but 600 radius is quite large. To land the reveal now requires fairly smart use of it, and 600 just makes it more mindless. The skill is already quite good as is.

There was no reason to risk the use, reveals were often landed as you knew where the person would have landed after an evade/leap or you used an after cast that indicates/puts you where the person was.

This range now gives an incentive to actually use it for the reveal around say a deadeye that's been perma stealthing for 2 minutes. Most of the time, you can't land the reveal even if you know where they are because the radius is so small and you have no time to reach where they are.

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Hammer is trash weapon tbh. Face reality, its just used to spam CoR. Take it away and you are left with.. what?

Anet simply cant balance slow weapons anyway cuz they refuse to back them up with proper damage to boot. Reaper gs is perfect example of it. Given how slow that weapon is it should be doing at least 70% more damage rn.

You're generous, Reaper damage as I started to play it recently is quite high. Being able to time guaranteed critical 7k Gravedigger's per hit after some kitting and the possibility to spam given I planned my shot at someone's sustain. It's deadly as hell.

CoR as I would agree is trash in scenario's that aren't huge maps, but Phase Smash if you use like Full Counter or a Parry provides good sustain and some nasty damage if using Sigil of Intelligence, almost equal to deathstrike. Drop The Hammer is more like a niche that enjoys Quickness better, it's quite satisfying to time right IMO.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:I just hope they didn't forget about Shield because since it got Condi cleanse they called it a day.

Eh, I know I already shared my thoughts on that to you but Shield is in a pretty decent spot right now other than the clunky 4th skill.

7k gravedigger is low dmg. I literally got one shot from a backstab thief the other day at 20k hp and 2600armor witohut warning, nothing. Or 5k autos from gs soulbeast despite 3,7k armor. You have stuff like rapid fire or arc divider without going into details about all the stuff that hits as ahrd/harder with lower casttime. Given how long it takes to cast gravedigger that thing should be capable of hitting 20k with 0 might

Never got backstabbed for 20k in PvP, 15k at best. Guessing WvW, will always be broken no matter how hard the devs try. That 7k was on Marauder's without much of any traits to increase damage. So I can imagine that 15k Gravedigger is more than likely possible AND spammable.

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Seems if something preforms well on rev its subject to being terminated, I kinda feel as a Rev main that the dev team hates us.

With the recent changes, I wouldn't think so. Care to say why?

! 1. Ventari was a good change, it needed a lot of love and I felt it was good that it got attention. But then for example they turn around and completely Screw mallyx over even through he isn't that strong. Raiding shouldn't be a focus for balance its a niche game-mode and destroying his performance everywhere really bothered me, considering he was already preforming with minor success rate outside of Open world PvE. He cost's too much energy now to maintain unless you are going 100% core rev, which then means you have no ranged condition damage weapon.(This sucks in WvW and in PvP respectively.)!2. I personally hate what they did too sword off-hand and liked that it had a block, considering shield is utter trash and a dumpster-fire of a weapon right now we really needed a off-hand that could give us mobile block. They also turned into a "Thief" with warrior lite skills, so if you run sword/sword you are basically just doing thief shenanigans with some warrior sprinkled in? Why must they get rid of what makes us unique? I liked how Rev could be a bruiser, and stand in while giving a good fight and they keep trying to push us too a pure dps/support role. (Which is not the roles I like, which is why my rev has slowly begun to be put on the back-burner.)!3. Now hammer is getting hit with the nerf-bat but its one of the few things we have going for us in competitive modes; Sword/Sword + Staff will be all thats left because this will effectively make us less of a desired choice over other classes. Sword/Sword + Staff is all well and good for melee skirmishes but the moment it becomes a ranged battle, and you end up cornered in the inevitable zerg war you're SoL.!4. We have little build diversity alone with utilities, they also now seem insistant on adding cooldowns ONTOP OF the energy cost; And every-time they touch a skill they make the energy cost through the roof? Kinda hard to manage energy when Herald/Renegade don't have a method to regen it back like core does, so now core is 100% superior to either spec. But then doesn't this kinda take away the point of the two specs when core can bring just as much to the table with now major drawback? Herald is kinda crap now, doesn't feel good to play and while its still fun it gets old quick. You really become a boon-slave, which is never fun to be and never was fun to be but that is the role they want us to fill. (Sure you Hit hard but with the constant damage reductions, reduction in might generation and upkeep it becomes apparent they aim at taking our damage away.)!5. Renegade sucks outside of PvE, its good for raids and so on but in WvW and PvE it is complete trash. (which is why I try not to talk about it as much.)!6. Invocation is a Must have which I mean isn't bad ; It brings so much to the table though that it makes the other traitlines feel rather niche in comparison and really shows that there was good intentions in the class design but they fell short on implementation. We could use more traits for the other traitlines that could compete with invocation, and make them desirable in the long run. I don't mind invocation having a must have slot in competitive modes and I think some of the things it does bring are so good its ludicrous to think people believe builds can work without it. (Especially with the increase to energy cost/the new cooldowns.) But Id love to have some new traits littered in other traitlines to make uncommon combinations come with amazing results, I feel revenant keeps getting pushed into a weird place. This is due to them not tackling or trying to tackle the overall issues with the class and merely using band-aid fixes.

Note I LOVE the energy system and resource management required to run the class; I love its theme and its aesthetic and the respect it pays to GW1 but I honestly don't get why they have to throw cooldowns + increased energy cost with every change. At that point Id rather them just roll Rev back to pre-HoT launch because at least then it was crazy strong (Beta) And had tons of tools. (Outside of ventari, leave him as he is.) I know im going to get flamed by people who don't know what they are talking about, but having played rev over the years some of the changes make me scratch my head. We have weapons like shield who need desperate attention to be viable in game as is, and then sword off-hand gets reworked and looses any and all defensive abilities it had. (The change to skill 5 is good, the removal of block on skill 4 is not.) There were intricate and challenging/rewarding aspects to this classes gameplay and over-time its been eroded and eaten away at. It's one of the main reasons I don't trust A-net with balance and Id rather them pump out new specs than fix anything. Because when the "Fix" things its either a nerf so hard it removes it from play and makes it trash, or its a buff thats un-needed which is more of a rework into a more "Simplistic" design.

Tl;Dr: A-net suck at balance and just need to keep making new stuff, messing with old stuff and reworking it is often either over-shot OR its nerfed and goes the other direction and becomes trash. There never seems to be a happy medium.

[Fueki.4753]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:I love its theme and its aestheticI originally mained it because the jade/turquoise/light blue colour scheme was pretty on Glint/Jalis.But that facet circle below my character is irritating.

I honestly don't get why they have to throw cooldowns + increased energy cost with every change.It's one of the main reasons I don't trust A-net with balance and Id rather them pump out new specs than fix anything.They don't like Revenant to be good.

[Shao.7236]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Tl;Dr: A-net suck at balance and just need to keep making new stuff, messing with old stuff and reworking it is often either over-shot OR its nerfed and goes the other direction and becomes trash. There never seems to be a happy medium.

I kind of agree but also disagree, a lot of the time the only thing people look at is only statistical use and nothing else. I have been for the longest time playing around with all of revenant possibilities and have always found a way or another to make what I wanted to work around the people commonly used simplistic options. Adapting and overcoming is the fun part, for the longest time I have made condition revenant work, they said it wasn't possible and somehow here I am making it work and the only thing I hear is excuse after excuse, my biggest problem is that people play this game like it's an actual mmorpg which is far from it, actually not even close. There is much more than skills alone to pick from in the end and that what makes GW2 a good game to me, without this aspect I'd be long gone back to my FPS genre where I would have to deal with cheaters that I could never know or tell until it's blatant.

There is a few disparities that could be fixed in between a lot of skills but tbh, it doesn't leave them completely unusable, if only they had the time to do the actual math.

Edit: Although I agree, the removal of sword 4 block really killed a lot of rev options, making staff extremely mandatory. I honestly wish they would bring it back.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Tl;Dr: A-net suck at balance and just need to keep making new stuff, messing with old stuff and reworking it is often either over-shot OR its nerfed and goes the other direction and becomes trash. There never seems to be a happy medium.

I kind of agree but also disagree, a lot of the time the only thing people look at is only statistical use and nothing else. I have been for the longest time playing around with all of revenant possibilities and have always found a way or another to make what I wanted to work around the people commonly used simplistic options. Adapting and overcoming is the fun part, for the longest time I have made condition revenant work, they said it wasn't possible and somehow here I am making it work and the only thing I hear is excuse after excuse, my biggest problem is that people play this game like it's an actual mmorpg which is far from it, actually not even close. There is much more than skills alone to pick from in the end and that what makes GW2 a good game to me, without this aspect I'd be long gone back to my FPS genre where I would have to deal with cheaters that I could never know or tell until it's blatant.

There is a few disparities that could be fixed in between a lot of skills but tbh, it doesn't leave them completely unusable, if only they had the time to do the actual math.

Edit: Although I agree, the removal of sword 4 block really killed a lot of rev options, making staff extremely mandatory. I honestly wish they would bring it back.

Condi works, but not as efficiently as it should. It originally would of been far better with mallyx being more about getting conditions dropped on you and growing in power from them. So you basically wanted to wade in and have everything dropped on you and then become a monster; Redirecting and consuming condi's for different effects. They scrapped that Idea because "OP" when in reality it would right now be a hard counter to most condition builds. (With passive corruption in toe... very dark aura/Chosen from war-hammer vibes.)

I never meant to make it sound like revenant sucks and its good, its solid but ALOT of changes were un-needed and unwanted (By those of us who knew the class.) Many more likely will come, I make my rev work too but I honestly get tired at points of having to try harder than most others while on my class because im so limited. Making staff manditory was a horrible move and I liked and enjoyed how every weapon felt like it mattered. (Considering we can't pick our utility skills, this was something that was cool.) I like how it felt like duelist and its a shame that now its just a spaming mess similar to all of what PoF brought.

Im sorry If I made it seem more bleak than it was, I guess I just hunger and thirst for another E-spec (Svanir or Asgeir for the love of the spirits.) so I might get that playstyle back with some cool appearances to go along with it. I always enjoyed the hybrid creature revenant was on release and how it could do "Anything" and while not excelling it had tools to deal with any opponent at any time. Over time however it feels like (Its not completely true.) But still feels like we have been stripped down of alot of that nuance and depth, numbers aren't everything and some of the new stuff functionally doesn't gibe well with the rest of rev. (We still have tactics that are not... 100% that great.) If anything our tactics should be more impact-full. our weapon skills more about choice and our utilities be where we are locked in, swapping the nature of "Choose the utility." what about allowing us to choose between differing weapon abilities? Giving all weapons multiple differing natures and functionality's (At least for example, being able to choose whether or not you have a block on sword or not.) This way you have one built for PvE and one for competitive? It would be an endeavor but it would make revenant stand out even more and give it some spice of life.

[narcx.3570]

That Gaze range increase is so deserved... Can maybe actually reliably use it to, like, reveal people now instead of just pre-tagging them with it to stop their stealth escape.

[Zaret.1450]

I think Anet should stop touching herald in pvp y wvw and focus on its pve where it realy needs help.Im not against balance in pvp y wvw but they should balance clases/specs who need balance (and i think revenant is fine compared to thr other classes as it can hit hard and survive if you use your head)Other than changing traits position/numbers or adding a skill to every legend to give more customization i dont think revs need too much changes (maybe a trident threatment to one of the less used weapons ?)

[Scoobaniec.9561]

They did not listen to feedback regardless CoR. All i have to say is goodbye revenant hammer in wvw roaming (not like it was good to begin with) and welcome mediocre weapon in zergs

[InsaneQR.7412]

I think changes to other hammer skills to improve them would be nice and a general energy system rework would be nice. But I can understand that they tune down the range burst. They also nerfed ranger longbow.

[Arkantos.7460]

@Virtuality.8351 said:Or I just missed it?

Revenant

• Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
• Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

I am so against the Coalescence of Ruin change.

they wrote thats not all... maybe we get more then theese 2 ones, they only want to know our opinion about it ... the rest maybe hurts more

[Catchyfx.5768]

Well if hammer rev will fall from meta comp we should get some rework then.its wvw zerg weapon.

[DonArkanio.6419]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:Well if hammer rev will fall from meta comp we should get some rework then.its wvw zerg weapon.

We are witnessing a complete fall of the entire class.

What Revenant is supposed to be is Sw/Sw + Staff. I don't see any changes that can help it at this point. Seriously.

Hammer was actually one and the only weapon that stayed the way it was, as an original idea. Now, it's going to be another bland weapon.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

Haven't said anything about the balance changes to Rev because of not caring about those two skills in question, but if I did... Why? I've been taught over the years that it's futile.

[alain.1659]

CoR needs a nerf really. But other hammer skills need a rework also, especially the auto is a meh. Without CoR hammer is nearly useless

[Aeolus.3615]

@"alain.1659" said:CoR needs a nerf really. But other hammer skills need a rework also, especially the auto is a meh. Without CoR hammer is nearly useless

i can hit arround 5k-8k autos o.O and im not fully zerker...They hit me the same ammount on my tanky toon with protection on and several dmage reducers... :\

how can that be a "meh" skill?

[alain.1659]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"alain.1659" said:CoR needs a nerf really. But other hammer skills need a rework also, especially the auto is a meh. Without CoR hammer is nearly useless

i can hit arround 5k-8k autos o.O and im not fully zerker...They hit me the same ammount on my tanky toon with protection on and several dmage reducers... :\

how can that be a "meh" skill?

With glass cannon it is strong. But I find it really meh in dueling. But I never liked the hammer either so maybe I am biased.