Gem prices are at an all time high.

[rng.1024]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@rng.1024 said:

Let me clarify - I never said account bound gold was factored into anything, so not even sure why you bring that up. However, what is actually keeping the exchange rate increase at bay, is exactly what I mentioned - people buying gems for real money which then gets consumed instantly by the trading post. It's not factoring into the supply pools of either gold or gems for conversion (because their relative sizes remain the same no matter how much is exchanged of either) as you need to pay with one to get the other.

How much people are buying gems with real money and immediately spending on the gem store has absolutely NO EFFECT on the gems exchange. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this. I've explained how the exchange works. Personal player wallets and gem purchases off the gem store have no effect on the gem pool of the exchange. The gems spent on items on the gem store do NOT go into the exhanges pool of gems. They are consumed and gone, poof, because their spending power was used to acquire something. The exchanges pools of gold and gems are only affected by EXCHANGING either currency.

The total amount of gems in the game is no factor in the ratio between gems and gold in the exchange and was never mentioned in relationship to the exchange when ever explained by a developer.

@rng.1024 said:So yes it is the predominant factor here, I never argued people aren't converting more now than when the prices were lower, quite the opposite, however the in game gold supply isn't infinite leaving real life purchase of gems the limiting factor in order to not skyrocket gem prices. And as I said, buying gems for irl money

allows

you the option to convert them to gold, thereby affecting exchange rates.

Yes, actually converting gems into gold WILL affect the exchange because now you are affecting both the gold supply of the exchange as well as the gem supply of the exchange. That is completely unrealted to how many gems are purchased with real money. For example, gems gained via the 5k achievement milestone have the same effect on the exchange (or no effect if used on the gem store immediately) as gems purchased with money.

@rng.1024 said:I'm not sure what you're reading into, but I'm not disagreeing with what you say however I think you narrow too much down on the gem/gold pools in order to disprove something I said, when I've already accounted for that from the getgo. Also keep in mind not everyone converts, spends or stores their gems meaning they do not initially affect exchange rates, but they have the potential to do so - hence the pools aren't static resulting in them not being the single factor in determining exchange-rate.

That's what I'm saying, you are at the very least unclear in your wording or worst unclear on how exactly the exchange works. The wiki has a short version of the explanation which John Smith (former GW2 developer in charge of analytics and game economy) gave in the past.

Look - nobody is saying we are messing directly with the pools of the exchange, or that factors outside can mess with them so please reread if that is still unclear.

The only thing I pointed out, is that if you already have gems (regardless of source) you are less likely having to convert from gold to gems - can we agree this stifles the gold to gem traffic? Because if so it does indeed affect the exchange rate, which is what I'm getting at however it does so indirectly since the pools themselves within the exchange aren't touched.

Once you ignore people having gems from other sources, again while not directly influencing exhange rates, then you completely remove the need for gem to gold conversion meaning whenever something new came on the tradingpost the ratio betweem the pools would become (let's be cautios even) 25/75 - it would cost 3x times more to convert gold to gems than gems to gold. Why aren't we seeing that? Simply because total amount of gems in game decide our buying power, of which not all stem from gold conversion.

Other than that you are just repeating what I said in your own words, which I don't mind but please actually read it through instead of tunnelvisioning on the confined pools of conversion and trying to disprove something nobody argued with you on in the first place.

You are leaving out 1 exchange though in your approach, and that is also one of the reasons why I prefer to not mention theoretical outside purchases:

People buying gems and converting them to gold

, which also increases while the gem-gold exchange changes to benefit gem into gold exchanges.

Yes, obviously people spending money on gems and not exchanging will not affect the exchange. It does not require special mentioning since IT DOES NOT AFFECT the exchange. If you go as far as mentioning outside factors, you would have to mention that people are far more likely to buy gems and exchange them for gold during these spikes. Ideally, just leave this out of the equation since it is both: confusing and not directly necessary to explain what is happening.

The exchange rates are affected by gold and gems which go into either pools. What plkayers do on the side might be interesting, but is ultimately not not relevant. Especially if we delve into issues like players "could have or should have" exchanged gems for gold. They didn't that's all that matters.

Yeah nothing wrong with you stating it as you see it. The only side-business I mentioned was exactly that, how buying your gems for real life money alleviates the need for gold to gem conversion, and thereby influences the going rates indirectly - nothing more. Even the source states the ratios are contained in the exchange so not exactly sure how that became a topic. Never did I speculate in what players do on the side, because as you say, it's irrelevant.

Naturally the direction of conversion is the main factor here, but just saying "we have more people converting from gold to gems atm" after seeing it climb nearly 25% and stay there doesn't paint an exact picture at all, because it's simply not true the same amount of gold gets converted every day as we would then see a constantly growing inflation as the ratio difference increases - why don't we? Real life gem purchases. They make sure the conversion rate don't skyrocket and it contributes to regulate the necessary influx of new currency in the form of gold converted into gems.

Looking only at pool ratios as a factor tells us that right now people are willing to dig deep for gems - while it's not simply the case, else this inflation we see today would have happened a long time ago.

[wickedkae.4980]

People are cashing out their gold. The game is on its way out now and everyone knows it. No longer any reason to save gold. Might as well blow it all and have the last bit of fun before maintenance mode starts.

[TatsuyaHiroki.7412]

@wickedkae.4980 said:People are cashing out their gold. The game is on its way out now and everyone knows it. No longer any reason to save gold. Might as well blow it all and have the last bit of fun before maintenance mode starts.

everyone? happen to have a crystall ball or just pulling things out of your back?

[yann.1946]

@wickedkae.4980 said:People are cashing out their gold. The game is on its way out now and everyone knows it. No longer any reason to save gold. Might as well blow it all and have the last bit of fun before maintenance mode starts.

This makes no sense with the information that we have atm. Their is a whole new season coming

[Tulki.1458]

The claim that ArenaNet manually changes the price of gems isn't really a far-fetched conspiracy.The gem/gold exchange isn't a market. You never choose how much to sell your gems or gold for. So the prices have to be driven by something else that isn't the market, most likely some algorithm that they have control over.

[lare.5129]

Ofc should algorithm help it, and this is very ok. Price should grow up.If I want buy leg weapon this is will coast about 100 euro may be 50 eu for wep can be better .. I think price ok. So gem price should UPSell it more cheaper ? 1 euro = 1 leg weapon or 1000 eu = 1 weapon?? We talk about that?

[FitzChevalerie.1035]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@DarkNighT.7319 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:Still the aniversery saile going on bud so

even without the sale the gemprice is stupid high, which is made worse by the fact a lot of materials are worth nothing compared to the old days.

just seasonal fluctuation, and a display of amount of liquid gold floating around the economy

my view is gold -> gem needs to be high for anet to make money, and to surviveif players can get too much gemstore items without micro transaction, anet will go broke

It also means it's relatively cheap to buy gold with real money legally through the game itself, which means players are less likely to go to an illegal gold selling site to get it. (I haven't seen gold seller spam in-game for months, but I assume they're still around because I've never heard of any game completing eliminating them.)

Yeah nah.for 100$ I can get 8000 gem from ANET which translates to 2300ghttps://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems?filter.conversion_type=moneyToIngame_gems&filter.conversion_input=8000

whereas, some gold sellerpal will get me 3300g for that amount.you'll convince the casual to buy gems, but the tryhard to whom its the 100th mmo he plays he's going to palgold spammers are still around,. they dont spam on LA anymore, but they are still there.Economy of most mmos revolve around that.Nearly impossible to block every single bot and every single gold buyer/seller

as an aside its not illegal to buy gold .It's against ToS sure thing, but it's not against the law

[Dayra.7405]

@FitzChevalerie.1035 said:as an aside its not illegal to buy gold .It's against ToS sure thing, but it's not against the law

That depends on the source of the gold. if it is really farmed it’s only against the ToS, but most gold comes from hacked accounts and trading stolen goods is against the law.

[FitzChevalerie.1035]

The seller may or may not be acting outside the law.the buyer isnt responsible from where it comes from though

You won't go to jail for buying "illicitly gained" gold

[Dayra.7405]

@"FitzChevalerie.1035" said:The seller may or may not be acting outside the law.the buyer isnt responsible from where it comes from though

Wrong in several countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goodsImportant is usually, if you know or have to assume that it is stolen.And if you buy from an Gold-seller you have to assume that it is from hacked accounts.

[Clyan.1593]

Game needs a HUGE gold sink. And one that will stay, not just a onetime thing.

[Danikat.8537]

@FitzChevalerie.1035 said:as an aside its not illegal to buy gold .It's against ToS sure thing, but it's not against the law

I'm not sure about other countries but in the UK it's illegal to sell anything which doesn't belong to you, and since the contract you have with Arenanet says you don't own the gold on your account (or anything else) it's illegal to sell it. You might have a hard time getting individual cases to court (especially since the gold sellers are almost certainly not located in the UK) but that doesn't mean it's legal.

And as other people have said gold sellers often get their gold by hacking accounts or using fake or stolen credit card details, which is very definitely illegal.

[Dayra.7405]

@Danikat.8537

since the contract you have with Arenanet says you don't own the gold on your account (or anything else)

Good point I forgot that.

[Rasimir.6239]

@Clyan.1593 said:Game needs a HUGE gold sink. And one that will stay, not just a onetime thing.This far into the game's lifespan the only gold sink large enough to touch the wealthier veterans would likely lead to newer accounts never getting a foot in the door but being perpetually broke. Actually the gold to gems transfer is one of the best ways to tackle the problem, as the wealthy can spend their gold on unlimited amounts of fluff while newer/less wealthy players can play on in peace without being confronted with mandatory gold sinks beyond their resources.

That some people don't care to spend their riches on fluff but would rather spend it on power (to gather even more riches) is another topic alltogether, and one that no gold sink in this game will ever change.

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

@Clyan.1593 said:Game needs a HUGE gold sink. And one that will stay, not just a onetime thing.

That assumes Anet considers the ever-rising exhange rates a problem.

If they did, would they keep selling items that make the accumulation of gold easier?

Not to mention a huge gold sink would probably turn off many new players.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Tl;drMore gold ingame, lower value of individual gold

[Danikat.8537]

I think this game has done a pretty good job of controlling gold inflation, but then I tend to compare inflation in games to the early days of Ultima Online, when MMOs generally were new and no one really knew you had to worry about things like that so there wasn't really anything which took gold out of the economy. Everything, even basic items, were so stupidly expensive new players couldn't hope to afford them unless they quickly found their own items to farm and sell to other players. Desirable items like a placed house would go for millions of gold.

Compared to that GW2 is still in a pretty good place with many items new players will need (low level crafting materials for example) available very cheaply and simple ways to make gold that don't put you into competition with other players so it's easy for new players to get started on them.

Gems, and therefore gem store items, are more expensive than they used to be at launch but it's hard to compare exactly because gold is easier to get too, so in terms of the time required for the average player to be able to afford a gem store item I don't think the difference is as extreme as it seems.

Also I'm pretty sure the current price is an anomaly caused by the sales and it will drop. Especially if the start of Season 5 brings in new and returning players who may well see the current exchange rate as a great opportunity to buy some gold to 'catch up'.

[Calvsie.3675]

I'm kinda surprised. I was expecting it to be more of a spike, but its progression has been fairly straight forward. Kinda curious now what happened in September of 2016...

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Calvsie.3675 said:I'm kinda surprised. I was expecting it to be more of a spike, but its progression has been fairly straight forward. Kinda curious now what happened in September of 2016...

Anniversary sale

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Tulki.1458 said:The claim that ArenaNet manually changes the price of gems isn't really a far-fetched conspiracy.The gem/gold exchange isn't a market. You never choose how much to sell your gems or gold for. So the prices have to be driven by something else that isn't the market, most likely some algorithm that they have control over.

It's not necessary to suppose some hidden algorithm which allows ANet to control exchange rates. They exercise control over exchange rates by manipulating the demand for gems and gold. They do that by introducing gem store items to the store, or by introducing things into the game that require gold.

The thing is, they need to do both. Without a need for gems, they make less (or no) money. Without a need for gold, there is no motivation for people to buy gems with cash to exchange for gold, which means they make less money.

So why does the exchange tend up over time, and also show spikes in the gold-to-gems rate? More gold in game over the life of the game accounts for the first. Spikes in the availability of store items due to new/returning stuff plus sales accounts for the second.

That's all that is needed to explain exchange behavior.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Randulf.7614 said:It should be a sign people are using gold to gems more to buy old seasons and the the current new horizons packages.It is a sign that people are using gold to gems more than gems to gold. Nothing more. It doesn't even tell us anything about the quantity of gems bought/sold - only the ratio.Why that happens may be a result of multitude of factors, so we cannot really say what it means without the wider context.

TL/DR;No, it doesn't tell us anything about the health of the game.

[Lightnin Luke.9470]

@wickedkae.4980 said:People are cashing out their gold. The game is on its way out now and everyone knows it. No longer any reason to save gold. Might as well blow it all and have the last bit of fun before maintenance mode starts.

It seems to me that players who use gold to buy gems are being weeded out. The price of 400 gems is getting too high and the price of materials are getting too low so that your gold income from farming is not keeping up with the price increase of the gems. This is very disappointing and for me will have a definite impact on my decisions to buy any further expansions that may or may not come out.

[Lightnin Luke.9470]

@Danikat.8537 said:I think this game has done a pretty good job of controlling gold inflation, but then I tend to compare inflation in games to the early days of Ultima Online, when MMOs generally were new and no one really knew you had to worry about things like that so there wasn't really anything which took gold out of the economy. Everything, even basic items, were so stupidly expensive new players couldn't hope to afford them unless they quickly found their own items to farm and sell to other players. Desirable items like a placed house would go for millions of gold.

Compared to that GW2 is still in a pretty good place with many items new players will need (low level crafting materials for example) available very cheaply and simple ways to make gold that don't put you into competition with other players so it's easy for new players to get started on them.

Gems, and therefore gem store items, are more expensive than they used to be at launch but it's hard to compare exactly because gold is easier to get too, so in terms of the time required for the average player to be able to afford a gem store item I don't think the difference is as extreme as it seems.

Also I'm pretty sure the current price is an anomaly caused by the sales and it will drop. Especially if the start of Season 5 brings in new and returning players who may well see the current exchange rate as a great opportunity to buy some gold to 'catch up'.

It seems to me that players who use gold to buy gems are being weeded out. The price of 400 gems is getting too high and the price of materials are getting too low so that your gold income from farming is not keeping up with the price increase of the gems. This is very disappointing and for me will have a definite impact on my decisions to buy any further expansions that may or may not come out.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Lightnin Luke.9470 said:

@wickedkae.4980 said:People are cashing out their gold. The game is on its way out now and everyone knows it. No longer any reason to save gold. Might as well blow it all and have the last bit of fun before maintenance mode starts.

It seems to me that players who use gold to buy gems are being weeded out. The price of 400 gems is getting too high and the price of materials are getting too low so that your gold income from farming is not keeping up with the price increase of the gems. This is very disappointing and for me will have a definite impact on my decisions to buy any further expansions that may or may not come out.

I just bought 2900 gems with gold. Gold isn’t that difficult to obtain. It’s also only 4G/100 more than it was before the anniversary sale which isn’t that much either.