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Druid is overrated (edited title)


wefal.8426

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@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

Firebrigade has more dps than chrono+druid.

That's whay I said. CM comps have (and require) a ton more dps than regular pugs, so firebrigade is the choice. In no little cases they play 5 dps.

Even a solo heal firebrand without renegade outperforms a solo druid as far as carrying a team.Again, that hapens in a CM group, where they barely need heals. In a regular (headless) pug druid is way way more useful.

I think you missunderstand the relationship between Fireband and Druid. A heal Firebrand provides nearly double the healing a druid does (druids are the weakest healers among all healers in pure heal output) while also providing a ton of more useful boons like aegis, stability and quickness (on top of fury and might).

There is no scenario in which a druid outperforms a Firebrand except for cc and as might and fury generation for 10 players as pendant to chrono.

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@"wefal.8426" said:Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

Indeed druid is overrated now that there are many comps but it is not overrated by how you feel the way druid is used.You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it.

There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.

As far as usefulness with druid its easier because of the utilities it brings. Firebrand on the other hand doesn't have as much uses like druid does for raids.

This does not stop firebrand from its greatness. Since comp has changed, firebrand is a fantastic tank. You can now tank at your regular toughness and pull higher numbers in dps then off chrono. Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank. However if you going for just clearing fractals,raids. Any comp atm is sufficient to clear the boss with out enrage.

The main reason druid will be number 1 is because spirits + spotter. IF somehow Arenanet deleted spirits then other supports will be number 1. Tempest would be a possible number 2 because tempest have 10 man 25 might upkeep, it just has no spotter or spirits. But tempest would struggle just like firebrand as main heal. Tempest will have some issues with pushing, crippling because tempests duration of those conditions suck.

All in all Druid isn't great because of "heals," but because of the offensive buffs + utility skills is has to provide for the group. Where as the utilities in other classes don't do as great.

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As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

@wefal.8426 said:Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

@"blambidy.3216" said:You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand....Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

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@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

@wefal.8426 said:Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

@"blambidy.3216" said:You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand....Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

I agree that in your comp, druid is bad. That beeing said some encounters are better with minimum 1 chrono and that means druid is required.

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@"wefal.8426" said:Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

At least we agree that Druid needs some buffs! You play FB, the current N°1 wanted specs in group content (sPvP,WvW, high tier fractals) and you complain that druid is considered in less than 1% of the game ? Lol.

1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.That is why they are better than before where you had to sacrifice them (even if a lot of people cry on the forum without understanding how good this change was). If they are close to the party (as they should be) they will get heal. You probably have a hard time with them because you are not used to them. You do not need to move them that often and when you do, you are off cd.

2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.So ? As pointed out mantras do the same. On many bosses you have a tank and all allies behind. You can heal everybody with blasts (warhorn + staff) in regular form if you use heal trap or spirits to have aoe heals (not to mention CA aoe heals). The auto heal is reliable, not a burst heal for sure, but heals multiple allies, has a good range and hit multiple times (used for mechanics like KC).

Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.Not the best heal. Definitly needs some buff or something else to reward allies to stay in close combat. But if you try to play without it you will miss it.

3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Hum. I do not see how those example make it bad.a) Sabetha does not requiere a ton of healing. You can throw a few heals from range in CA (druid has way more range options than FB) and you sustain yourself if needed, you can rush in once she goes away or go to bombs with staff.b) Care about the timing, look at the animation.c) Same as bNow you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.This is way better than standing still on guardian staff (does not have the might buff though). Staff 3 mobility + blast is what makes this skill so good.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.We all agree that it needs some buffs on 1 and 2. But 2 + 3 is decent for condi clear (also if you use glyph). Use 5 when you need some quick stab, if you use it while standing in a bomb sure it is bad :lol:. If you are out of endurance and want a quick stab to take a hit and keep healing, use it. If you want to add slows to the adds or the boss, use it.FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.You play offheal right? So you still need a main healer. Back in the shadows? Some bosses are way better for FB (like earth djinn), it just depends what you need or want.

Druid has a lot of utilities to offer to the group, take a look at Clyan answer.

Edit : I think when it comes to supporting groups who are struggling with a game mechanic FB is better. With aegis you can take a hit without thinking (like Vale guardian blue aoe), with stab you can take a knockback without thinking (like Cairn), you have the bubble (for Adina). In my opinion Druid is a more reliable healer but does not provide this "quality of life" (allowing to make mistakes) which is why it has fallen off meta in some scenarios (not to mention that some druid spells have a delay :anguished: ). However it does provide 10 man boons, unique effects, strong healing, and lots of possibilities with the pets (cc, boons, damage) that make him so strong in this niche that are raids.

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@wefal.8426 said:Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

I fully agree with your statement. Heal necro, heal tempest and FB are better support.

The thing is Druid brings a couple of extra buff no other class have:

  • Frost and Sun spirit brings an extra DPS for the team which can't be replaced.
  • Easy perma 25 might for the team.
  • Until recently the gliph of empowerment gave another 8% extra DPS. Not anymore but teams will need some months to realize that.
  • Spirit soulbeast is not support and is not as good DPS as other classes, as it doesn't share much. Thanks the weird soulbeast traitline.

That's why druid is still wanted in Pugs. It's not because it's the best at anything, it's simply because the only viable option to get those buffs.

If soulbeast get some revamp so it's better at sharing maybe it could replace the druids in a DPS slot. Or Anet destroys the spirits and then the ranger can be deleted from the game.

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

@wefal.8426 said:Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

@"blambidy.3216" said:You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand....Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

I agree that in your comp, druid is bad. That beeing said some encounters are better with minimum 1 chrono and that means druid is required.

Oh absolutely. That's why I wrote the last two sentences in my post. When you need chrono, druid is there to fill in the gaps that chrono lacks. It's not that druid is great.

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@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

@DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

@wefal.8426 said:Druid is basically spirit slave.1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

@"blambidy.3216" said:You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand....Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

I agree that in your comp, druid is bad. That beeing said some encounters are better with minimum 1 chrono and that means druid is required.

Oh absolutely. That's why I wrote the last two sentences in my post. When you need chrono, druid is there to fill in the gaps that chrono lacks. It's not that druid is great.

Its the problem of ranger. Unique modifiers are way too good and ranger+druid used to have alot of them. But since the removal of glyph of empowerment, there is only sun/frost spirit left (and spotter) and thankfuly soulbeast cantake them too.Druid isnt great but it is many avarage things compresed together so it can fill holes in compositions well.

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@"blambidy.3216" said:You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand....Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

Banner slave is support but it shouldn’t be support. The fact that a bs can hit over 25k while putting banner to the group is fine. However if you tech want to go to how the comp was 2 chrono, Druid. Dps. Is still a great comp. which is more then enough dps to speed clear.

The thing is you said Druid isn’t 10 man heals. But water spirit is 10 man. So idk what your talking about.

Look I agree with a lot of your statement. However all I’m saying is the reason Druid is number 1 is because of the utility and skills + might are more easier to do then say a firebrand + ren comp within “raids”. As for fractals. Fibrigade comp is superior. But going through speedclears your going to be using a comp with 1 Druid.

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@blambidy.3216 said:However if you tech want to go to how the comp was 2 chrono, Druid. Dps. Is still a great comp. which is more then enough dps to speed clear.

The thing is you said Druid isn’t 10 man heals. But water spirit is 10 man. So idk what your talking about.

Look I agree with a lot of your statement. However all I’m saying is the reason Druid is number 1 is because of the utility and skills + might are more easier to do then say a firebrand + ren comp within “raids”. As for fractals. Fibrigade comp is superior. But going through speedclears your going to be using a comp with 1 Druid.

The comp being good is different than the Druid being good. That's the point I'm trying to make. Druid isn't number 1. It's Chrono that is number 1 (at least in some fights)! Druid is just tacked on there because of spirits.

Staff 2, as I mentioned also heals 10 targets and is far more valuable at ~700 x 10 target heal every 2 seconds. Water spirit itself is bad. 863 healing every 10 seconds is nothing (not affected by Druid healing power/outgoing healing). Water spirit is just for the 50% up time on 10 target regen to the other 5 ppl not in your subgroup since you already have perma regen from WH on the 5 in your subgroup. If you have 2 healers, water spirit is useless as the other healer with bring their own regen. I'm not saying it's impossible for Druid to heal 10 ppl but the majority of the healing is only towards 3-5 at a time and most groups I've healed need a second healer.

I disagree on it being easier. I've played both. It's a lot easier keeping ppl alive with FB than Druid. The general boons/might is also easier on FB as long as your teammates group up near you.

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